Finding crappy oak in Norther Virginia

[Roger Feeley]

When we built our house, the bride chose this really funky oak flooring. I basically have a museum of wood ailments and diseases on my floor. Worm holes, knots, spalling, you name it. it all seems solid except for one piece. I'm watching that one with glues at the ready.

But we couldn't find the same sort of, ahem, character for the spiral staircase treads and landings. I had to go on the hunt for crappy oak. Do you have any idea how hard it is to find 5/4" crappy oak?

I finally went to the Wood Mizer site and started calling. I found this guy who has this log he's been meaning to mill that has all sorts of knots and flaws. My requirements are pretty minimal. I told him that I would prefer knots in place but that I could take branches and cut the right diameter and make my own knot insert and fill with epoxy. Small empty knots are fine. Voids and cracks are fine. Basically, I want his firewood.

If I get something, basically the first thing I will do is mix up a lot of dyed epoxy and fill holes. Since the stairs lead to my basement shop, I want the surface smooth so they are easy to sweep.

[Bill Dufour]

Just not too slick or you will slip and fall.

[Jacob Reverb]

Jack at Vienna Hardwoods might have a source for you...

[Roger Feeley]

Just not too slick or you will slip and fall.

I agreee fully, Bill. When we made temporary treads from plywood, we overdid it and they are nearly impossible to clean. There's not much here in the way of non-slip strips that I liked. I've seen the adhesive stuff and the glue leaks out and they come loose and generally get nasty. I found that stair safety is a much bigger deal in Australia and NZ than it is here. I found a company that markets these thin fiberglass strips that I could epoxy into a very shallow slot it the edge of the tread. I've found nothing like it here in the states. The owner of the company kindly sent me a white paper on stair safety citing a lot of accident statistics. Long story short, you don't need to make the whole step non slip. you just have to keep peoples feet from sliding off. So a 3/4" strip about an inch back from the edge is more than adequate.

My plan is to use the smooth steps I have for a while and see how slippery they are or get. If I think there is any need at all for abrasives, I will order the strips from the Kiwis. Then, my plan is to photograph how I mill the slots and pitch a story to Fine Homebuilding.

[Jared Sankovich]

Cp in culpeper had character grade white oak the last time I was out there. It's not quite as defect full as you describe but might work.
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[Joe Calhoon]

Knotty and defect wood is popular in Colorado. All the wholesalers here carry a grade of white oak called rustic or character. It is not number one common but selected for tighter knots and small character defects. Not expensive and you have to figure more waste than a fas grade. Also available in cherry, hickory and walnut. All from eastern mills.

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[Richard Wolf]

Have you checked Home Depot?:D

[lowell holmes]

Don't you have real lumber yards in your area? I'm not talking about big stores.

[Roger Feeley]

Don't you have real lumber yards in your area? I'm not talking about big stores.

As we all know, there are lumber yards and there are lumber yards. I’m new to the dc area and I know of plenty of places that are basically construction supply yards. Finding a place that sells stuff that I would want is more challenging. I’m getting there.

[Tom Bender]

One day you may want to take something heavy down the stairs so be sure to reinforce the treads if you are using crappy stuff.

[Roger Feeley]

One day you may want to take something heavy down the stairs so be sure to reinforce the treads if you are using crappy stuff.

The spiral stairs are strictly for people. When we built the house, I had them put in an exterior staircase, 48” wide and a 42” door for stuff. All we have upstairs is a loft overlooking the great room. I had them put in a ring for a pulley system if we ever want to move anything upstairs.

also the treads are reall 10ga steel. All the oak does is look good.

[Fred Falgiano]

Cp in culpeper had character grade white oak the last time I was out there. It's not quite as defect full as you describe but might work.
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Agreed.

CPJohnson in Culpeper is where I get pretty much all of my lumber. Even if they don’t have the “character oak” that you need, they’re definitely worth checking out.

[Tim Einwalter]

What you want is the cull lumber. The stuff that gets thrown on the burn pile because of the defects. Frankly, I like this stuff because of it's character. They will often use the material for trailer beds and such.

[Roger Feeley]

What you want is the cull lumber. The stuff that gets thrown on the burn pile because of the defects. Frankly, I like this stuff because of it's character. They will often use the material for trailer beds and such.

My flooring is a lot worse than that. The defects are smaller but much more numerous. I'm tellin ya, my floor is a veritable reference book of wood ailment.

But you are right on the money. If I had a relationship with a mill, cull lumber is just the thing. That relationship is exactly what I'm trying to build. The guy gave me a really good quote per board foot.

[Roger Feeley]

My guy sent some pictures of some wood he just cut so it's still green. I have zero experience evaluating green wood. The holes are nice. I was hoping for some knots and other stuff. But what I need is general character. What do you guys think?

I'm seeing a lot of nice straight grain. He says there's a lot of quartersawn character because of the way he milled it. It's all 1 1/8" rough. I need .960 give or take for the treads. For the landings it needs to be around 1 1/8". I could built this stuff up around the edges with some more oak and I don't think anyone would be the wiser. I will be rounding over the parts that show so my shim would be in that roundover. Shouldn't show if I do it right.

$4/sq foot dried.

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[Jared Sankovich]

My guy sent some pictures of some wood he just cut so it's still green. I have zero experience evaluating green wood. The holes are nice. I was hoping for some knots and other stuff. But what I need is general character. What do you guys think?

I'm seeing a lot of nice straight grain. He says there's a lot of quartersawn character because of the way he milled it. It's all 1 1/8" rough. I need .960 give or take for the treads. For the landings it needs to be around 1 1/8". I could built this stuff up around the edges with some more oak and I don't think anyone would be the wiser. I will be rounding over the parts that show so my shim would be in that roundover. Shouldn't show if I do it right.

$4/sq foot dried.

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$4 seems high. That would be FAS pricing, and what you have there would be 1 common maybe. $2 would be more in line, but if you need it...

Also if you wanted 1" finished he should have cut it thicker. That should finish at 13/16 or so.

I picked this character grade up in Culpepper for $2.50 bd ft and for what i was using it for cut around the defects.
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[Paul Steiner]

You need to try 2 places: Hardwoods in the Rough in Manassas-they carry a wide variety of locally milled stuff with the standard variety of hardwood lumber. Talk to Don, he may have a source. Next there is a sawmill in Catharpin, they advise on Craigslist, they may have something close to what you need.

[Paul Girouard]

When I was in the USN we stopped in France , some how or another I ended up at a really small basement shop where a couple of guys where building furinture.
The stuff they where building was pretty nice stuff, it also was highlighted with a lot of worm holes. I must have noticed the had a needle gun , like the blue shoes / ships company guys used to chip paint off the ship.

I broken French / English I got out of the two guys they made all of their own worm holes, or at least added to the ones that might have come in the stock.

A needle gun is a pneumatic tool with a bunch of metal 1/8” or smaller pins that are used to chip paint .

If worm holes are what you need the needle gun should be able to make them.