Shaper head on table saw

[Matt Mattingley]

Has anybody tried this with good results? In reality I would need about a 12inch shaper head with a one and a quarter inch bore. I’m OK with The fence being considered the table top... I want to make my tablesaw into a tilting shaper.

Do you think the surface speed would be too slow 3600 RPM?

[Mike Delyster]

I’ve thought about trying one on my Uni-Point radial saw.

[Matt Mattingley]

I’ve thought about trying one on my Uni-Point radial saw.

Interesting. That would be 180° application...

[Peter Kelly]

https://i.imgur.com/jcKmyZE.jpg (https://ballewsaw.com/114head.html)

[Mel Fulks]

They used to sell a thing for use on table saws that came with screw-on cutters. I think they were sold by Sears. I've had
people try to give them to me at yard sales. I'm sure they were no larger than 8 inch diameter.

[Matt Mattingley]

They used to sell a thing for use on table saws that came with screw-on cutters. I think they were sold by Sears. I've had
people try to give them to me at yard sales. I'm sure they were no larger than 8 inch diameter.
Thanks.... are you contributing to the wobel dato??? Lol

shaper heads on table saws or RAS. Out of purpose.

[Matt Mattingley]

https://i.imgur.com/jcKmyZE.jpg (https://ballewsaw.com/114head.html)

peter, is 12” available?

[Warren Lake]

The sears things are junk, I likely have five or six different ones and also bored for the shaper. Probably 100's of cutters as well. THey work better on a shaper than a table saw, more pounding on the table saw. Ive used them when I had to.

Not sure you can put a head that large on but then ive thought about a 9" one with corrugated to do haunching get the bevel and some amount of clear out. THere is a US company that makes them but doubt they were larger than 6 of 7 think even less than that, I cant remember the name right now but do have info and have talked to them. Asked a company up here thats made me a head before and they were not interested didnt like the concept. Id think a schidmt coping plate might work for you. Do you have something in particular you are trying to do, likely Joe has done this before on his nice slider.

[Wayne Lomman]

Seems somewhat suicidal to me. Do some calculations first. Tip speed, extra load on the bearings, etc. There are generally good reasons why a shaper is configured differently to a saw and turning one machine into another should not be undertaken lightly. Also take into account the different position of the operator in relation to the cutter. Cheers

[Van Huskey]

peter, is 12” available?

That is a Magic Moulder and they are 7" diameter.

I can't really envision 12" shaper tooling on a TS, even with a 1" arbor. Tooling that big is usually reserved for the beefiest of shapers.

[David Kumm]

I think Matt is talking about his Wadkin PK which is built like a heavy shaper and has a long enough arbor to accept the width. Dave

[Jacob Reverb]

I wonder whether I could use a shaper head on a radial arm saw (with the guard removed, of course) to trim down a brass car key...

[Joe Calhoon]

A nice feature of the older Martin saws is the ability to run shaper heads. A 30mm or 1 1/4 arbor and multi speeds make this possible. On my 20 year old T72 you have to remove a spacer and pins from the arbor and make a custom insert plate to use shaper cutters up to 1 1/4” wide. The older saws could go even wider. Speed range is 2800, 4000 and 5500 rpm that allows running cutters from about 6 1/2” to 14” or more if needed. I have a original Magic Moulder head from LRH and it is only about 5 1/2 diameter and is just shy of reaching the table top.

We mostly use a 250mm adjustable groover in the saw for cuts not possible on the shaper. Grooves across the grain in solids and sheet goods, making long tenons not possible on the shaper and tilting to make Vgrooves in door panels. We used to do this on a table saw with one of those Sears heads and that is marginal.

Peter G uses his old T75 with a tenon head that takes corrugated knives. Like to see more pictures of that. The newer Martins cannot take much of a dado or shaper head. I think the worry is the electronic brakes and probably safety. My saw has pins but have never experienced any problem with the braking or cutter coming loose without the pins.
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[Van Huskey]

I think Matt is talking about his Wadkin PK which is built like a heavy shaper and has a long enough arbor to accept the width. Dave

He buried the lead... and results in a completely different conversation.

[Larry Edgerton]

I have on occasion run shaper heads on my SCMI using the dado setup with its 1 1/4" shaft. Never been an issue for me but I do not run the ten pound heads on it either. Its great when you want to run a slot in something that the shaper can not reach. I use an 8" aluminum adjustable slotting cutter instead of a dado blade for example. Light weight and little stress on the saw.

Oh, I see Joe already covered this. And he has pictures! Joe for the win......:)

[Larry Edgerton]

I’ve thought about trying one on my Uni-Point radial saw.

I used an 8" on my OMGA for a cove moulding. Worked better than a table saw. Made a box that the blade dropped in to so I could push it through with no worries. Would do it again if the need arose.

[Larry Edgerton]

Has anybody tried this with good results? In reality I would need about a 12inch shaper head with a one and a quarter inch bore. I’m OK with The fence being considered the table top... I want to make my tablesaw into a tilting shaper.

Do you think the surface speed would be too slow 3600 RPM?

I wish I had thought of that the other day. I had to make some reproduction raised panels but the cutter I had was too steep of an angle, and no tilt shaper, so I made a fence/table for the shaper that took out 3 degrees. Saw would have been faster. Hmmm.....

[Matt Mattingley]

I think my bearings can handle it. They’re not the typical motor bearings. Here is a comparison between my bearings and a typical Baldor motor

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[Joe Calhoon]

If you look at a typical cutter speed chart at 3600 rpm you can run anything from about 220mm diameter and up.
with shaper cutters best to run at about 1000 rpm below the max and as long as you are above minimum speed kickback chance is reduced.

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[Matt Mattingley]

Thanks Joe! I think you’ve given me enough info to give it a shot.

[Peter Kelly]

https://ballewsaw.com/114head.html
Per Van's comment above, the Magic Molder is 7" diameter. Lots of profiles available!

I can't imagine what Rangate or Schmidt would charge for a 12" head....

[Joe Calhoon]

I wonder if 7" is the cutter body or with the plugs. That would just work on my saw but might not on Matt's because of the direct drive.
Does anyone know if the old LRH plugs work on the newer heads? They look the same in the pictures.

[Matt Mattingley]

I wonder if 7" is the cutter body or with the plugs. That would just work on my saw but might not on Matt's because of the direct drive.
Does anyone know if the old LRH plugs work on the newer heads? They look the same in the pictures.
Joe, you got it. When the motor bumps the bottom of the table with an 18 inch blade, I’m getting 5 inch depth of cut. A 10” dia would be min.

[brent stanley]

HI Matt, like Joe says adjustable groovers are often used on a bench saw heavy enough for the tooling. I have a 12" diameter, Aluminum head, 1 1/4" bore rebate block you could try if you wanted. RPM is right, chip limiting etc. One option would be a HSS limiter tenon disc. Gives you unlimited profile options and I'm sure you could grind the knives yourself with your skilset. It would also be MAN rated and chip limiting so much safer than the above!

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[Mike Delyster]

HI Matt, like Joe says adjustable groovers are often used on a bench saw heavy enough for the tooling. I have a 12" diameter, Aluminum head, 1 1/4" bore rebate block you could try if you wanted. RPM is right, chip limiting etc. One option would be a HSS limiter tenon disc. Gives you unlimited profile options and I'm sure you could grind the knives yourself with your skilset.

http://www.whitehill-tools.com/catalogue.php?cid=2&c2id=28

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That’s the head I was thinking of trying on my Uni-Point.

[brent stanley]

That’s the head I was thinking of trying on my Uni-Point.

Let me look into that for you Mike. Even though it's chip limiting, climb cutting on a RAS might benefit from a different rake angle than stock.

[Matt Mattingley]

HI Matt, like Joe says adjustable groovers are often used on a bench saw heavy enough for the tooling. I have a 12" diameter, Aluminum head, 1 1/4" bore rebate block you could try if you wanted. RPM is right, chip limiting etc. One option would be a HSS limiter tenon disc. Gives you unlimited profile options and I'm sure you could grind the knives yourself with your skilset. It would also be MAN rated and chip limiting so much safer than the above!

http://www.whitehill-tools.com/catalogue.php?cid=2&c2id=28

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Brent, they have a beautiful selection. I’m going to check with them to see if they will do a modified for dual purpose 24 mm pin inserts as well. This would be the cats ass of tooling. Thank you for the link.

Thank you for touching base with me personally today. Your phone call was well received and highly appreciated!

Brents phone call to me was he will bring his White Hill..specialized custom head and let me set up. Brent you are a gentleman! One Wadkin nut to another...you are awesome! Thanks!

[brent stanley]

Hey MM, good to talk yesterday, these little side projects are fun! A fully custom, large diameter head to accept the standard 40mm knives might be expensive but would be very versatile, and knives could be acquired just down the 401 from you. The existing, off the shelf tenon heads of course would work and be cheaper to buy, but the knives are less universal. Though with your skilset you could just buy a mitt full of blanks and grind them as you need em'.

I'm wondering if there's a way you could rig up a ZCI on the PK?

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[David Kumm]

Matt, will put a power feeder on the saw to stabilize the chatter? Dave

[brent stanley]

We talked a bit about that yesterday, and yes, a powerfeed unit would be great, or if not, multiple, strong, featherboard-style hold downs.

[brent stanley]

Hey Matt, here's a pic and the disc with flange takes up 1 13/64" on the arbour.

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[jack forsberg]

Disks or cutter blocks that size should either be pinned or keyed. Motor on the PK is the exact motor on the tenoners . Same Motor is on their crosscut and that runs 4” wide block at 5.25 Cutting circle.with the 6 inch shift. Split groovers of the old style bar 12 inches in diameter up to 2” wide And have restriction of depth build into to the block