Got some black walnut for the first time

[David Metzman]

They were cutting down a tree down the block. Took some logs then paid the guys to cut a couple for me. Two are about 23 inches across. Lot of water leaking out

Started turning one. Wish I trimmed it better. I was going slow. Turned up the speed a bit. Started to shake. Went to turn down the speed down. It jumped causing me to turn the speed up!. Danced across the floor until I hit the emergency stop. Screwed up the hole I had the jaws mounted in and bent the one way jaws a bit. A bear to move the lathe back in place. Also was a bear getting the wood on the lathe.

Turning can by physically exhausting!

How do you all recommend mounting very large and heavy pieces of wood in order to make a bowl? I am planning to do this natural edge up so you are seeing the bottom.

Also, I will need to trim it down a lot. I wished I had trimmed it more before hand. I need one of those stiehl saws. they cut like butter compared to my craftsman.

[Bob Bouis]

It looks like you're on the right track, but one thing you can do is cut the high corners off the bark side with a chainsaw. This'll help balance the blank better.

ETA: if you're wanting to do a natural edge you can mount the blank on the lathe (to figure out where to cut), then cut on it with an electric chainsaw or a handsaw to remove the worst-balanced parts.

I also don't commit myself to the centers before I mount it, so I can tilt the piece or move the centers a little bit to get the best balance and orientation before I really start turning. A big spur drive helps here.

[David Metzman]

Thanks. Also, any tips or things I should watch out for with black walnut? I already stained my shirt and the whites of my finger nails are yellowish.

I have an old electric chain saw and a reciprocating saw. The chain keeps falling off the chain saw. Any recommendations for a new one.

I just started turning again after taking a year off and having turned for about a year or so.

I took some smaller logs not cut in half and not pictured.
Thanks for the help.

[Chris A Lawrence]

I bought the 14 inch one from harbor freight it works great for trimming blanks on the lathe. I broke the first one trying to cut a crotch section to size that was 12ish inches diameter. New one is for trimming bits and pieces off while on the lathe to get it balanced. What i do is mount the blank put my rest on the tailstock side and spin by hand while holding a pencil to it to mark the max diameter i can make. Then carefully trim to the pencil mark nibbling pieces from the tailstock side to the headstock side.

[Don Jarvie]

Use a face plate instead of a worm screw supported by the tailstock. It will hold the blank better. Unless you have a big enough bandsaw the blank will be off balance so you need to deal with that.

[Leo Van Der Loo]

David I start with a compass to dew the largest circle on the blank and then cut the excess off.

Next I do install a faceplate, properly centered, easy, as you have already the center made with your compass.

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Then mount the piece and use the tailstock to help keeping it solidly,

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and proceed to turn the blank round and flat.

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removing all unwanted wood.

Then make a provision to be able to hold the piece to shape and hollow the piece.

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When done turning, pack the piece in a brown paper bag or cardboard box to let it dry slow and steady, so it will not split and crack.

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When dry, return and finish it

Done and enjoy.

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[Perry Hilbert Jr]

To round off larger bowl blanks with a bandsaw, it take s a really big saw. The largest mine can handle is only 6 inches deep/ Till you subtract some for trueing the sides and a tenon, you lose close to a half inch minimum. I mounted a large piece on a face plate and mounted it outboard on my lathe and cut an exterior circle carefully with a gouge and then used a reciprocating saw on the shallower corners. the piece was still to thick for my longest blade so I used a hand saw on the thick parts. After that I could still only bump it up to 640 RPM. I used a large bowl gouge to the basic exterior of the bowl and then made a very shallow tennon to mount a face plate to the bowl bottom. I used many shallow screws to hold the face plate. (I probably should have used another method to hold the bowl, it was all I could think of at the time) Then I flipped the bowl around and removed the first face plate and turned the inside of the bowl. I made a 16 inch bowl 9 inches deep on a 12 inch lathe. But my lowest speed is 320 RPMs and it shook a bit more than I like, even with a heavy weighted down floor model lathe.

[John K Jordan]

The best friend a woodturner can have is a good bandsaw. For years I used a 14" delta with a riser block for blanks; now I use an 18" bandsaw. Both can cut up to 12" thick. I flatten at least one side well before putting it on the bandsaw.

I've had a couple of electric chain saws. The one I use now around and inside the shop is a Stihl, not cheap but well worth the cost.

For woodturners who hope to work with free wood I think a gas powered chain saw is essential. I keep three around the farm but the one I mostly reach for is a Stihl with an 18" bar. It will easily slice through a log over 30" in diameter.

If the chain keeps falling off any chain saw something basic is wrong. Either the chain is too loose or worn, the bar is worn, you are not using it as intended, or all of these. Bars can be reworked with the proper tools, but it is far easier to just buy a new bar and chain. Unless you know what to look for, it is safest to replace both at the same time. I buy chains and bar/chain combos from Bailey's. https://www.baileysonline.com/

I personally would not mount a heavy blank on any lathe without rounding it first with a bandsaw, chainsaw, angle grinder, handsaw, axe, trained beavers, whatever. Besides basic safety, rounding it also saves a lot of abuse on the lathe, tools, and my arms.

I won't even turn a blank this size without rounding it for balance.
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A balanced blank of moderate size can be held with a chuck but for a large, heavy blank NOTHING beats a good faceplate with good screws in every hole. A big blank spinning loose in the shop can maim or kill.

Here is Lissi Oland rounding with a chain saw after mounting it on the lathe so she can turn it (she cores with a chain saw too):
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If you haven't done so, seal the end grain of the logs sections right away and cut them down middle, removing the pith if possible. It's best not to take more green wood than you can turn in a few weeks unless you want to process it into smaller pieces, freeze or store it underwater, or plan on using it for firewood. Fortunately Walnut is better behaved that some other species but still...

Black walnut: don't use the shavings and sawdust for animal bedding, especially for horses. I also wouldn't use it to mulch plants I wanted to thrive.

JKJ


Thanks. Also, any tips or things I should watch out for with black walnut? I already stained my shirt and the whites of my finger nails are yellowish.

I have an old electric chain saw and a reciprocating saw. The chain keeps falling off the chain saw. Any recommendations for a new one.

I just started turning again after taking a year off and having turned for about a year or so.

I took some smaller logs not cut in half and not pictured.
Thanks for the help.

[Dave Bunge]

How do you all recommend mounting very large and heavy pieces of wood in order to make a bowl? I am planning to do this natural edge up so you are seeing the bottom.



I agree with all the comments above about rounding the blank before putting it on the lathe.

For natural edge bowls, I like to start between centers using a large spur drive (1.5" "Texas Spur Drive Center" from BestWood Products.) I drill a 1.5" hole through the bark into solid wood using a spade drill bit. The hole makes it easier to mount the blank, supporting the headstock end of the blank once you've shoved it on to the drive spur.

Then I do the trick that Lyle Jamieson teaches, which is to balance the blank. Check out his videos on YouTube. The basic approach is to pin the blank lightly between centers. The out of balance blank will rotate on its own until the heavy part is at the bottom. Rotate the blank by hand 180 degrees until the heavy part is on top. Pull back the live center on tailstock end and let the blank "drop" a little, maybe 1/2" (only the tailstock end of the blank will move, since the headstock end is stuck on the spur drive). Reattach the live center and let the blank rotate again. Repeat this until the blank no longer has a heavy part. Now it's balanced and you can start turning at a decent speed. Once it's reasonably round, stop and adjust the live center point location so the the blank is in the orientation you want for the bowl.

Dave

[Prashun Patel]

You didn’t say how you mounted it. I also prefer to get the blank rounded on a bandsaw.

In addition to a faceplate, I always start with a cone in the tailstock to trap the piece.

Don’t use drywall screws in the faceplate. Use good quality screws that won’t snap.

In addition to chainsawing the corners, you can cut a large chamfer in the tail side of the blank. This will reduce the force and vibration considerably.

Also remember that the end product will be a lot larger in practical use than appears from the fresh log. So don’t be afraid of making a smaller blank if it makes things easier. You can have a deep, narrow bowl or a wide, shallow bowl. In fact, these forms can appear more deliberate vs something simply to maximize size . Sorry for the unsolicited advice there.

Last, a very large blank offers the opportunity to turn at different orientations, like quartersawn or inside out without a live edge. This latter orientation is my favorite on walnut because you get great concentric circles with good color changes around the rim.

Oh yeah, beware of sapwood in walnut. It can crack so take special care to dry properly.

[Mike Hollingsworth]

Thanks. Also, any tips or things I should watch out for with black walnut? I already stained my shirt and the whites of my finger nails are yellowish.

No soap will help. Lemon Juice.

[David Metzman]

Thank you all for the help and suggestions. David

[Richard Coers]

I always start with the top of the bowl at the headstock. I use the Oneway Big Bite spur and grips easily in the face. Driving through the bark side requires clean up first. I also think it's easier to turn the tenon when you have it by the tailstock. Good luck.

[David Metzman]

Thanks leo - some big an beautiful bowls. On the bowl where you show the inset tenon to hold it, how deep do you make it? Thanks, David

[David Metzman]

395199Here is where I am at. I still need to shape the bottom half - bring it in some. A couple of issues:

Some tear outs. -Mainly using a bowl gauge. How do I avoid? Sharper tool? Scraper? Negative rake?

I have to figure out how to deal with the bottom. A tenon or an inset tenon. Notice the tail stock support is pushed in a lot. I guess that is a problem with that type of spur. I had to crank it in a lot since the whole got buggered up some when I lost control of the lathe. I might have to take off a lot of the bottom. I was thinking of perhaps having the bottom inside of the bowl swell up some so I do not hit the hole plus some will come off if I use a tenon.

I do not think I am planning to leave the bark on the edge. I have never had good luck (mainly cherry) in keeping it complete.

Thanks, David

[Leo Van Der Loo]

395199Here is where I am at. I still need to shape the bottom half - bring it in some. A couple of issues:

Some tear outs. -Mainly using a bowl gauge. How do I avoid? Sharper tool? Scraper? Negative rake?

I have to figure out how to deal with the bottom. A tenon or an inset tenon. Notice the tail stock support is pushed in a lot. I guess that is a problem with that type of spur. I had to crank it in a lot since the whole got buggered up some when I lost control of the lathe. I might have to take off a lot of the bottom. I was thinking of perhaps having the bottom inside of the bowl swell up some so I do not hit the hole plus some will come off if I use a tenon.

I do not think I am planning to leave the bark on the edge. I have never had good luck (mainly cherry) in keeping it complete.

Thanks, David

David, thank you, I use a recess (what you call an inset tenon ?) pretty well exclusively, usually in the ⅓ size of the diameter of the blank, dept depends a bit, deeper heavy wet blanks need more depth, something like ¼ to ⅜ “ deep.

The recess is removed or reshaped and finished when the bowl has been returned and finish sanded, like shown below, shape the outside to be able to do this.

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Use a sharp bowl gouge to get the best surface, not scrapers, they will cause tearout, especially with the fairly soft Walnut wood, cutting from center bottom to the top is your best way to go,

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It is a bit early to get the best bark adherence, December to february is the better time for that, but why not try, all you have to loose is some bark ;).

Practice is still the best way to get better at it, so go do it, and yes wood does grow on trees, have fun and take care.

[Thomas Canfield]

My mounting method is different from all above it seems. I use a cardboard circle template to locate the center and mark outside of template with chalk. If under 17" diameter, I take to drill press and level the blank with shims to drill a 3-1/8" diameter flat using Forstner bit for 3" faceplate. I then take the blank to band saw and trim off excess material if less than 6" thick, no riser on bandsaw. I also use a recip saw, handsaw, or go outside to use chainsaw on some major out of balance pieces to help balance. My Powermatic 3520B with the faceplate and live center in tailstock is then able to handle a lot of out of balance material. The 3-1/8" Forstner bit trick also works on hollow forms. The faceplate and leveling on drill table eliminates the need to try to balance the piece on the lathe and use a drive center that is almost sure to spin on a large piece. Pieces too large for drill press are drilled using a 1/2" hand drill and bubble level to check the face/block level. That has worked for at least 200 pieces so far, natural edge, regular, and hollow forms.

[David Metzman]

Thank you every one for the advice. Here is where I am at. I left it in a bag bc I was out of town and hollowed it last night. I used a oneway hollowing tool and then did the rest by hand.

I will say, the shape is not too elegant. It is 17 inches across. Also, it is 7/8 of an inch thick. I am always nervous of making big pieces too thin - also bc cutting air here.

Also, Prashun - what do you mean by "In addition to chainsawing the corners, you can cut a large chamfer in the tail side of the blank. "

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[Chris A Lawrence]

what do you mean by "In addition to chainsawing the corners, you can cut a large chamfer in the tail side of the blank. "



They probably mean cut on an angle near the rim to the base to take off some of the meat so you dont have to turn it all off. A good ratio is the base should be 1/3 the diameter of the rim. If you dont want that shape bowl you can reverse it. Drill a hole in the center of the cut side of the blank the size of your jaws and turn off the bark side to shape the outside of the bowl. Make a recess in the base to accept your jaws. Then reverse the bowl and turn the inside. Once dried remount and take a little off the outside to true it up and hollow the inside to the desired wall thickness.

[Prashun Patel]

Chris Lawrence: "They probably mean cut on an angle near the rim to the base to take off some of the meat so you dont have to turn it all off. "

Yup. The thing is, this is often trickier (albeit faster) than just turning it, because you have to brace the blank when you chainsaw it. If you don't it will roll or spin dangerously.

[Chris A Lawrence]

Chris Lawrence: "They probably mean cut on an angle near the rim to the base to take off some of the meat so you dont have to turn it all off. "

Yup. The thing is, this is often trickier (albeit faster) than just turning it, because you have to brace the blank when you chainsaw it. If you don't it will roll or spin dangerously.

I put my threaded spindle lock pin in that resolves that problem.

[David Metzman]

I mounted it by drilling a hole, not very big in diameter a bit over an inch, and using pin jaws and tail support. As I mentioned in an earlier post, the lathe started vibrating so much that when I went to turn the speed down I actually turned it up and then it walked across the floor. Also it reamed out the hole and bent the ends of the jaws

[Chris A Lawrence]

I mounted it by drilling a hole, not very big in diameter a bit over an inch, and using pin jaws and tail support. As I mentioned in an earlier post, the lathe started vibrating so much that when I went to turn the speed down I actually turned it up and then it walked across the floor. Also it reamed out the hole and bent the ends of the jaws

For that size bowl 1 inch is to small I make a 2 1/8 inch hole for my 2 inch jaws

[Reed Gray]

I am also curious as to how you mounted it to the headstock. For me, I always turn with the top of the bowl to the headstock. Most of the time I drill a recess with a bit forstner bit and expand the chuck into that. That is a pretty secure mount. Face plates work too, but they need a fairly flat surface to mount onto. The more rounding you can do before you put it on the lathe, the less work you have to do once it is on the lathe, but there is a point where the lathe can do it faster.

If your chain keeps coming off the bar, you most likely have too much slack in the chain, and there is a set screw type adjuster on just about all saws. Loosen up the bolts that hold the bar on, turn the screw a turn or three, then tighten up again. You do want a tiny bit of slack in the chain, not snap tight. Bar oil and a sharp chain are essential. Your local saw shop may be able to help.

Lemon juice does cut some of the black from the walnut, but not all of it.

Other than that, it sounds like you need a hands on session with a mentor. That is better than any video, at least most of the time....

robo hippy

[David Metzman]

I mounted it by drilling a hole, not very big in diameter a bit over an inch, and using pin jaws and tail support. As I mentioned in an earlier post, the lathe started vibrating so much that when I went to turn the speed down I actually turned it up and then it walked across the floor. Also it reamed out the hole and bent the ends of the jaws

[Prashun Patel]

I don't use the chainsaw on the lathe; Mine's gas and spits oil. I use a log buck. Even better, a circle cutting jig on a bandsaw with the table tilted does an even neater, safer job.

[David Metzman]

Here is the finished product. A bit of a rough finish. 16 inch diameter. First bowl I made in over a year so my skills (never good) are rusty.397819

[Chuck Sager]

I turn lots of walnut and when it’s fresh I get spit at by the wood there is so much water in it. All that water creates a problem because of weight if the blank isn’t balanced. I use a face plate and turn the speed down till the blank is in balanced then spin it up and enjoy. Walnut is one of my favorites to turn. Good luck

[David Metzman]

I do not know if it just me, but I have been having a lot of tear outs also on another bowl I am making - on the outside. Is that just me?

[robert baccus]

A bouncing lathe is something I had to tolerate early in the game. There is a very easy and inexpensive way I worked out to fix this by a modification to the lathe. Holler if you want instructions.

[Leo Van Der Loo]

I do not know if it just me, but I have been having a lot of tear outs also on another bowl I am making - on the outside. Is that just me?

Not just you David, Black Walnut can be a real pain at times, as I said in another post, some trees in a species have just different wood, where some work easy others do not, and Walnut is one of those that does this often enough, it is after all not a hard dense wood and that is one of the reasons it act sometimes more like poplar or willow, adding a grain stiffener like wax or oil or even water will help get a better result with turning it.

[Bob Bergstrom]

If you do many natural edge bowls drill out a couple holes in your faceplate and install 3/8” bolts on the face plate after sharpening the bolts to a point. Place the blank (bark side up on the ways. Center the faceplate on the bark and smack it a few times with a mallet. Drill two 3/8” shallow holes through the bark. Place the faceplate back over the holes and drive it into the holes. Mount it on the lathe and secure it with the tail stock. Here’s a video I did for YouTube on natural bowls. It may help with your questions.

https://youtu.be/4bYWW4rXaYQ


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[David Metzman]

thanks - sounds like great advice. I always assumed that it was a very tense wood. So if I oil the wood near final turning with walnut oil, that may do the trick? Thanks, David

[Reed Gray]

There seems to be no one way to triumph over tear out. I haven't had any more than usual problems with walnut, though I had some butternut that was more difficult. So, I think more so for dry wood, like Koa, if you are getting a lot of tear out, then wetting the wood (water, oil, finish) and letting it soak in for a minute or so, then taking very light cuts, just enough to remove the wet wood, is generally a good way to do it. It may take several passes. Some times using a gouge that has been sharpened and/or honed, on a 600 grit wheel will do the trick. Some times shear scraping with a burnished burr will do the job. Some use sanding sealers first and then very light cuts. For sure you get better results with sharp tools. I don't turn walnut any more, makes me sneeze and itch....

robo hippy

[John K Jordan]

There seems to be no one way to triumph over tear out...

I solve most tear out with these negative rake scrapers, with or without dousing the wood with thinned shellac (sanding sealer), when even the sharpest tools and my best technique with the gouge doesn't work. (They easily remove tool marks at the same time)

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Another thing that works, when I get tear out that I simply can't avoid with all the tricks while the lathe is spinning: hand scraping with the lathe off. This completely bypasses one of the contributors to tear out - the tool cutting in the wrong direction for the grain in that place.

I shape cabinet scrapers with a variety of curves and almost-flats to fit different shapes, sharpen as with flatwood cabinet scrapers, then turn a burr with a carbide burnisher. The three in the foreground are StewMac scrapers, used with no burr, also very useful.

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I almost always take the piece off the lathe and mount in a carving/finishing stand where I can see better and have more control. I have also used them simply holding the piece between my knees while sitting comfortably in a chair.

I scrap "downhill", either with the grain or at some angle to the grain. It is amazing how quick I can remove tear out, scratches, and ripples.

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After the scraping I follow with either hand sanding with what I call soft sanding blocks (white erasers) or with a gently operating pneumatic random orbital sander. After scraping, it rarely takes sandpaper coarser than 220 grit, often less. And not much sanding is needed.

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Just say "no" to power sanding with coarse grits.

JKJ

[David Metzman]

Thank you Reed and John.

John, would you mind posting a side picture of the negative rake scrappers. I would like to see the angle. And why is one side the top (I assume that is what T stands for)?

Your second picture is a very pretty picture with the dark background. In the seventh picture, you do not look like I wold expect.

Thanks,
David

[David Metzman]

Robert - any advice on a good way to level my lathe. I can never seem to get it correct or is it just a matter of the unbalanced wood? Thanks, David

[Reed Gray]

First step is to level it side to side and front to back. If you are in a garage, and the floor is sloped, one end will be higher in the air. When all is dead level, all 4 feet should be firm on the ground as in grab the ways and give it a good shake. The lathe should not wobble. Next step is to mount an unbalanced piece of wood on the lathe. Them back off slightly on one foot, and it doesn't really matter which one, but I go for one of the front side legs, and back off one foot slightly till it is floating. Next, at slow speed, turn on your lathe, and then adjust speed up till your lathe starts to vibrate. Then adjust that one floating foot down till it contacts the floor again. Tighten it down a little bit until the lathe stops vibrating. Increase the speed slightly to see if the lathe starts to vibrate again. Adjust down a tiny bit again if you need to. I then turn that one food down maybe '5 minutes on the clock degrees' because it seems that when I tighten up the nut on top of that foot it seems to suck that foot up a tiny bit. You may have to repeat a few times to get it as close to perfect as you can. Then add weight to your lathe and/or bolt it to the floor. I do mark out on the floor with a sharpie, where the feet are supposed to be when all is set and done. Even if your floor is dead level, the lathe will walk a bit from spinning unbalanced pieces of wood. It moves more if you are on a sloped floor. This way, you can move the lathe back to where it is supposed to be without having to go through the whole leveling process again.

robo hippy

[David Metzman]

Reed - Thank you. David
First step is to level it side to side and front to back. If you are in a garage, and the floor is sloped, one end will be higher in the air. When all is dead level, all 4 feet should be firm on the ground as in grab the ways and give it a good shake. The lathe should not wobble. Next step is to mount an unbalanced piece of wood on the lathe. Them back off slightly on one foot, and it doesn't really matter which one, but I go for one of the front side legs, and back off one foot slightly till it is floating. Next, at slow speed, turn on your lathe, and then adjust speed up till your lathe starts to vibrate. Then adjust that one floating foot down till it contacts the floor again. Tighten it down a little bit until the lathe stops vibrating. Increase the speed slightly to see if the lathe starts to vibrate again. Adjust down a tiny bit again if you need to. I then turn that one food down maybe '5 minutes on the clock degrees' because it seems that when I tighten up the nut on top of that foot it seems to suck that foot up a tiny bit. You may have to repeat a few times to get it as close to perfect as you can. Then add weight to your lathe and/or bolt it to the floor. I do mark out on the floor with a sharpie, where the feet are supposed to be when all is set and done. Even if your floor is dead level, the lathe will walk a bit from spinning unbalanced pieces of wood. It moves more if you are on a sloped floor. This way, you can move the lathe back to where it is supposed to be without having to go through the whole leveling process again.

robo hippy

[Perry Hilbert Jr]

When the piece is l9op sided the absolute slowest the better and use the tail stock to help minimize the possibility of the thing working loose from the face plate . I have turned 14 inch pieces on the outboard side of my Delta at 300RPMs and the lathe still waltzed across the floor until I got the high spots knocked off. I saw a video in which the guy used a draw knife to shave off some of the lop sided blank. A large plane may also work to shave the corners.

[David Metzman]

thank you for the help

[John K Jordan]

Reed - Thank you. David

One thing to keep in mind. If you use the tailstock while turning check for alignment of the centers after moving and/or leveling the lathe. Put a drive center with a point in the headstock spindle and put a center with a point in the tailstock. Slide the tailstock up close until it almost touches the drive center point. If the two are not aligned horizontally adjust one of the feet of the lathe until the points line up. The cast iron bed is flexible and will twist easily if not properly supported by all four legs. If you never use the tailstock don't worry about it.

As for vibration, a friend uses long pipe clamps to fasten his lathe to the walls of his garage. This helps dampen the vibration when turning an out-of-balance piece. It also keeps the lathe from walking around.

[Alex Zeller]

Another thing to remember with out of balanced wood is how long it laid on the ground. If it was just cut the water inside the wood will be spread pretty evenly but over time it will settle to the bottom. Not sure if it's just the top drying out quicker or gravity but when that happens even if the round is perfectly shaped it'll still be out of balance.