Which bandsaw blades

[Dean S Walker]

I know, I have been searching through the forums looking at bandsaw blade likes and dislikes and I am all messed up now. I looked on timberwolf site and others and I have been using timberwolfs 1/2 3tpi for green. I noticed they have a 3 and 5 blade packages but I do not know how their other blades perform. There are so many blades out there I am turning to you guys to help here. What I am looking for. I just bought a laguna 18bx after selling my little 14 cast critter. I gave all the blades to the new owner so I am starting over in blade supply. I want a good solid resaw blade. wide, narrow, carbide what are your suggestions. I did have a woodslicer on my little 14 but my only complaint was it did not stay sharp very long. I will consider the carbide but would also like to know how or where to send it to get it sharpened. Maybe this isn't possible please let me know. Next is a good green wood blade and then a curvy capable blade. Maybe more but what do you folks think is a good set up for all the things bandsaw do. I would like to get a specific set of blades like 3 or four types but I do not want to have 12 different blades if you can get my meaning. I do not have a jointer or a tablesaw and just a lunch box planer, so I use bandsaws often. I have a lathe the rest is hand tools. Most flat work I do is smallish items so a good resaw finish equals saved time with the planes. Thanks folks

[Paul Williams]

Prior to upgrading my 12 inch sears bandsaw to the Laguna 14 BX I shied away from wide blades. I found the 1/4 or 3/8, 4 to 6 tooth the best all-round blades for my smaller saw. I stayed with the smaller blades for a year after buying the Laguna. Then I had a larger piece and switched out to the Laguna 1/2 inch 3 tooth blade. I haven put a smaller blade on since. Yes it doesn't corner as sharp, but the finish cut is smooth and it really works well in most situations.
Just my experience and somewhat limited so take it for what it is worth.

[Roger Chandler]

If you want really good blades for cutting blanks from logs, you can’t hardly beat the “Woodturners Blades” from Highland Woodworking. They are especially made for green wood/log cutting and out perform Timberwolf blades hands down! I’ve used many brands, but the Woodturners Blades are the best I’ve used, and are very reasonably priced, and last 3 or 4 times longer than any other blade for cutting blanks.

They are 3 tpi, .032 thickness for strength, rather than the standard .025, and they have hardened teeth, a wider tooth set for clearing the kerf, are 3’8” wide for great maneuverability in cutting circles, can even resaw boards from logs. They wil make them custom length for your particular saw at no extra cost, and Highland Woodworking has first rate customer service! On their web page put in the length you need and they will show you the price.

[Van Huskey]

For the resaw blade I suggest either a 3/4" Resaw King or 3/4" Lenox Trimaster. The RK can be sharpened by sending it to Laguna and Daily Saw in Fullerton CA can handle the Trimaster, there is a saw shop in CT that also sharpens them but the name escapes me right now. The RK will give a better finish off the saw the Tri-master will be a little faster and have a finish similar to the Woodslicer (which you can get the same blade stock from a couple of suppliers for significantly less if you decide not to buy a carbide blade). These options excel at veneer cutting if most of your resawing is not veneer there are better (faster) options.

For green wood, the conventional wisdom is the Highland Woodturners blade, I do have to snicker about the hardened tooth hype since they are Rc 64 which is the hardness of a standard quality carbon blade. The thinking outside the box blade is the Lenox bi-metal Diemaster 2 in 3/8" x 4tpi. I know several production turners that use them. They will outlast the Highland blade at least 5 to 1 and cost about twice as much, but if you are that guy that breaks blades regularly it is not for you. The Diemaster will benefit from a higher speed saw but the 18BX should be OK. The 3/8" Diemaster can also handle the vast majority of your contour cutting in 3/4" and thicker stock. To supplement this for thinner stock and tighter curves a 1/4" x 6tpi will work for most of the tighter work or thinner stock most will encounter. That covers you down to 5/8" radius curves. Tighter than that you will need to address the saw guides as well as the blade.

[Wally Wenzel]

go bandsaw blades.com and tell the man what you want and he will tell you what you need, about three days later you will have a goodblade. Wally

[Reed Gray]

Not sure what the teeth are on Laguna blades. Best blades I have used are Lennox Diemaster Bimetal blades. The teeth are M42HSS, which is the same material they use on the pallet cutting bandsaw blades. They cost a bit more, but if you hit a nail, they are not ruined. The 3 tpi blades can be resharpened several times. I have a local saw shop do mine. Really fine teeth don't resharpen because it is difficult to bet a sharpener that small. Carbide blades are for cutting fine veneers. The 3 tpi blades are for rough cutting, like for bowl blank slabs. On my 16HD, I have a 1 1/4 inch blade with teeth at about 3/4 inch apart, and bimetal.

robo hippy

[Van Huskey]

Not sure what the teeth are on Laguna blades.

robo hippy


The Laguna Resaw King has C4 carbide tips in a 2-3 variable pitch configuration, they have relatively large shear faces without a lot of clearance which produces very clean cuts. The Lenox Trimaster uses a triple chip geometry so it doesn't polish the wood quite as much but the edges last longer which is an advantage in abrasive woods.

[Dean S Walker]

Thank you gents I'll give the "Woodturners blades" a try. I do not do a lot of veneering at least not much thinner than 1/8 inch or so So we have the diemaster and the trimaster and the RK and I seen a carbide tooth that highlander carries. I think I should mention I do saw a good bit of ply and occasional MDF. This is generally hard on blades will the carbides be a better option.

[Chris Parks]

Van, where is that BS blade guide you wrote some years ago? It deserves another airing for those who have joined since.

[Van Huskey]

Thank you gents I'll give the "Woodturners blades" a try. I do not do a lot of veneering at least not much thinner than 1/8 inch or so So we have the diemaster and the trimaster and the RK and I seen a carbide tooth that highlander carries. I think I should mention I do saw a good bit of ply and occasional MDF. This is generally hard on blades will the carbides be a better option.

The Trimaster is the choice for use in engineered woods especially MDF, the triple chip grind is perfect for that application.

[Van Huskey]

Van, where is that BS blade guide you wrote some years ago? It deserves another airing for those who have joined since.

Here is a direct link but it is in the Sticky Thread post at the top of the General Woodworking and Power Tools sub-forum.

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?149862-Lets-talk-bandsaw-blades!

[Chris Parks]

Here is a direct link but it is in the Sticky Thread post at the top of the General Woodworking and Power Tools sub-forum.

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?149862-Lets-talk-bandsaw-blades!

Thanks, I don't see the stickies because I always use new posts to monitor the forums.

[Dean S Walker]

Well I feel like a dope. All that searching around and never looked at that sticky. Great info Van. Eight years has gone by sense that was written has your opinion changed at all?
I'm thinking the diemaster for green wood. It appears that they do not make a 3 TPI seams to start at 4. will this slow the feed by much? I'm all about longer lasting.
the Trimaster seams the be the ply/MDF blade of choice but I am somewhat confused, can these be sharpened? Reed has a place to do his can we use your guy or is there other options? Reed, what does he charge to sharpen? comparable to RK?
I also want to get a band for finer cut dry wood I have a desk project on the list and I will cut long slow curves in the legs. I do want to do some smaller work but I am thinking a 1/4 band for that probably 6 TPI. at least that is what I used on my old saw and it worked fine. is the diemaster a good choice here as-well.

All this said I have a laguna 18bx I think it will tension these bands we are talking about I guess the question is; what width would be reasonable on this saw. I think it is rated to 1-1/4 but 1 inch s what I had in mind for the carbide bands? The RK seams like the best value because of the resharpening is this still the case?

Also does anyone have a particular place they to purchase from?

[Reed Gray]

I think my 150 inch resaw blades are about $9 each. The carbide tipped blade I got from Lennox was not resharpenable due to the teeth being tiny. There are several options for self sharpening bandsaw blades, but I never had any luck with them, it ended up being more of a minor touch up job rather than resharpening and making sure the teeth had the proper set. I don't do much plywood or MDF, but I would think the 1/2 inch by 3 tpi Diemaster would have no problems. Worst for me in dulling all my tools is black walnut. Best guess is that it is acidic... If you have a local place that makes blades, talk to them. They may be able to recommend a sharpening service.

robo hippy

[David C. Roseman]

If you want really good blades for cutting blanks from logs, you can’t hardly beat the “Woodturners Blades” from Highland Woodworking. They are especially made for green wood/log cutting and out perform Timberwolf blades hands down! I’ve used many brands, but the Woodturners Blades are the best I’ve used, and are very reasonably priced, and last 3 or 4 times longer than any other blade for cutting blanks.

They are 3 tpi, .032 thickness for strength, rather than the standard .025, and they have hardened teeth, a wider tooth set for clearing the kerf, are 3’8” wide for great maneuverability in cutting circles, can even resaw boards from logs. They wil make them custom length for your particular saw at no extra cost, and Highland Woodworking has first rate customer service! On their web page put in the length you need and they will show you the price.

Roger, thanks for posting this. I had totally forgotten about that Woodturner's 3/8" 3TPI blade. Just ordered a couple to try with large green bowl blanks on a 17" saw. I like the thickness and tooth count.

FWIW, I too gave up on Timberwolfs a few years ago after using them for years for flat work. Disappointed in particular with them on green black walnut half-rounds, which are hard on blades. I've been very happy with blades ordered from Ellis Saw in Verona, WI for the 14" saw, and for general use on both, but their 3/8" blades are only available in .025. Ellis supplies mostly to the trade, with very good pricing but a minimum order requirement. Their website has good information on blade construction, terminology and applications. (www.ellissaw.com) (http://www.ellissaw.com/)

[Van Huskey]

Well I feel like a dope. All that searching around and never looked at that sticky. Great info Van. Eight years has gone by sense that was written has your opinion changed at all?
I'm thinking the diemaster for green wood. It appears that they do not make a 3 TPI seams to start at 4. will this slow the feed by much? I'm all about longer lasting.
the Trimaster seams the be the ply/MDF blade of choice but I am somewhat confused, can these be sharpened? Reed has a place to do his can we use your guy or is there other options? Reed, what does he charge to sharpen? comparable to RK?
I also want to get a band for finer cut dry wood I have a desk project on the list and I will cut long slow curves in the legs. I do want to do some smaller work but I am thinking a 1/4 band for that probably 6 TPI. at least that is what I used on my old saw and it worked fine. is the diemaster a good choice here as-well.

All this said I have a laguna 18bx I think it will tension these bands we are talking about I guess the question is; what width would be reasonable on this saw. I think it is rated to 1-1/4 but 1 inch s what I had in mind for the carbide bands? The RK seams like the best value because of the resharpening is this still the case?

Also does anyone have a particular place they to purchase from?


I would have to reread the post to see if anything has changed. :) In all seriousness, the post was mainly to remind people there are a lot of options in BS blades and if you understand the basics you can pick a proper blade for most any situation, it wasn't intended as specific recommendation thread though I did make them. I think the major revelation I have had sense them in relation to your thread is the number of production turners I have talked to that use the Diemaster instead of a blade with more set for green wood. Moving up to 4tpi from 3 will indeed slow the feedrate BUT tpi is only part of the feedrate another large factor is blade speed. Not sure of the 18BX blade speed but I am guessing it is in the 3500-4000 fpm range. The Diemaster's thick backer and preference for high tension near twice the average carbon blade does have benefits for cutting blanks. It also is far less likely to be ruined hitting some metal and being dulled by all the nasty stuff in bark.

The Trimaster can be resharpened, Daily Saw in Cali does it and this time I remembered their name, it is Connecticut Saw and Tool in Stratford. Now many if any saw shops sharpen carbon and bi-metal blades, it isn't very cost effective though there may be a few out there. Most of the time when people mention sharpening them they are doing it themselves. Plenty of youtube videos on the "art". It is simple although time-consuming and I personally don't bother. Carbide blades will run 50-70 bucks to sharpen with the shipping in very general terms.

The 1/4 x .025 x 6tpi Diemaster is an excellent contour cutting blade. I tend to use a 3/8 x 4tpi Diemaster for most of my contour cutting and use standard Lenox Flexback 1/4" blades when I need tighter cuts or I am cutting thinner than 3/4" stock. My point is that if you get the Diemaster for cutting blanks it will almost certainly do what you need for the legs as well plus no change over time.

3/4" is definitely as wide as I would go with the Trimaster but you could get away with the 1" RK since it has a thinner backer. People talk a lot about wide blades for resawing but it really isn't the width of the blade that is important it is the beam strength. A more narrow blade with a thicker backer may actually have more beam strength at the same tension as a wider blade with a thinner backer.

The RK and Trimaster are very similar in value considering sharpening BUT if you plan to cut ply and MDF with this blade get the Trimaster, the triple chip grind will stay sharper longer cutting engineered wood products. The RK has a thinner kerf and leaves a slightly better finish but this is mainly of benefit when cutting veneer.

I buy my Lenox blades from Spectrum Supply but their shipping can be high for just a couple of blades. Woodcraftbands.com is an excellent source for Lenox blades as well and cheaper on small order shipping, though I don't know if they carry the Trimaster. You could also check with CTsaw.com. Other people may have other sources. Also, don't rule out your local industrial supply houses, that depends on where you live though, you might have great luck in say Houston but if you live just south of middle of nowhere Texas the local options may be lean.

In the long term don't be afraid to experiment with different blades. Given that bandsaws are usually hand fed and no two people work exactly the same way (especially cutting turning blanks) and turners are more likely to use a lot of local wood that has its own unique characteristics it pays to try different blades, as long as you understand the basics of blade type, size, and geometry you can choose blades to experiment with. I have one particular saw that I tend to use as a blade test bed, I have over 60 different blades that I have tried on it over time. I am always looking for the next great thing but there is far less innovation in woodcutting blades versus metal cutting. The only place you see much R&D money going into with woodcutting is for highspeed bandmills. Funny enough the Trimaster and Diemaster were designed as metal cutting blades and for years wood was an off-label use, today Lenox labels both for use with wood. At the correct speed the Trimaster can be used to cut titanium alloys.

[Van Huskey]

The carbide tipped blade I got from Lennox was not resharpenable due to the teeth being tiny.

robo hippy

I am guessing the Lenox carbide blade you had was a Woodmaster CT. I have never found a place that will sharpen them due to the lack of extra carbide.

[John K Jordan]

I know, I have been searching through the forums looking at bandsaw blade likes and dislikes and I am all messed up now. I looked on timberwolf site and others and I have been using timberwolfs 1/2 3tpi for green. ..

As this is the turning forum, is your bandsaw use primarily for woodturning, cutting green wood? I also use a 1/2" 3tpi or 4tpi if I want a smoother cut. I cut up to 12" regularly on my 18" bandsaw. I buy my blades 5 at a time from a local company that makes them to order from Lennox stock. I resharpen a blade several times before I toss it.

If you want advice on blades for resawing very cleanly to make veneer or thin boards from thick dry stock, you might also ask this in another area such as the general woodworking forum. Some "flatwood" people may not read the Turner's Forum.

JKJ

[Richard Jones]

I use the Lenox bimetal, 3tpi, 1/2", .035 on my big saw. I agree on the Timberwolf being a disappointment, and I'm not too enamored of the Highland blades either. They don't last or cut like the Lenox, at least for me.

bandsawbladesdirect.com has always been my vendor for these.

[Dean S Walker]

Thanks again Van. The diemasters are to reasonably priced not to try. The TW blades I have been using are quiet disappointing. I'm looking to keep about 4 different blades at most if possible. The main blade will be the green wood blade because that is at least 50% of what I do with a bandsaw. Once blanks, if squarish, are dry if they are 8/4,12/8,16/8 what ever I have I will flatten one face and do some resawing to meet my needs as needed. So the resaw blade is important. Then the ply type blade because my wife makes all kinds of cut out type crafts and paints them. I get the job of cutting them out she sands the edges and so on. Last blade would be a 1/4 type that would only get used occasionally that flex back looks as if it will fit the bill nicely.

The less types I have the better in my mind just so long as I can get acceptable results.

I make jigs and fixtures or rip a little ply or make some circles for the wife for her little projects Carbide seams a little pricey for these types of things. If I buy a carbide I would want to resaw with it and would be looking at a few less teeth. The RK is a little cheaper in this area. diemaster 3/8x4tpi for greater than 3/4 inch stock and green and I'm thinking a 3/8x 6 tpi for thinner ply and rounds in engineered products.

I reread you sticky post and it would appear to me the diemaster blades hold the best value and the flexback is good for occasional use. Carbides save for the smooth resaw.

Thanks again this exchange has been helpful with my little saw I had just a hodge podge of blades and they made no sense.

[Roger Chandler]

Roger, thanks for posting this. I had totally forgotten about that Woodturner's 3/8" 3TPI blade. Just ordered a couple to try with large green bowl blanks on a 17" saw. I like the thickness and tooth count.

FWIW, I too gave up on Timberwolfs a few years ago after using them for years for flat work. Disappointed in particular with them on green black walnut half-rounds, which are hard on blades. I've been very happy with blades ordered from Ellis Saw in Verona, WI for the 14" saw, and for general use on both, but their 3/8" blades are only available in .025. Ellis supplies mostly to the trade, with very good pricing but a minimum order requirement. Their website has good information on blade construction, terminology and applications. (www.ellissaw.com) (http://www.ellissaw.com/)Properly tensioned, the Woodturners Blade will do a fine job for you David. I am a stickler for performance, and have both my Grizzly 14” G0555LX saw and my Jet 18” saw are properly setup, and the Woodturners Blade has way outperformed any other blade for cutting blanks and boards from logs that I have ever used.

[Hayes Rutherford]

Timberwolf also has a 3 tpi, .032 blade that only comes in 3/8". My experience is that it outperforms the Highland Hardware. Maybe not "hands down" but I "back point" my blades usually 3 times before throwing them away. The Highland Hardware usually break before 3 sharpenings, but the timberwolf (constructed of what I believe is superior steel and run at lower tension) rarely do.

[Roger Chandler]

Timberwolf also has a 3 tpi, .032 blade that only comes in 3/8". My experience is that it outperforms the Highland Hardware. Maybe not "hands down" but I "back point" my blades usually 3 times before throwing them away. The Highland Hardware usually break before 3 sharpenings, but the timberwolf (constructed of what I believe is superior steel and run at lower tension) rarely do.
Never had that happen in all of my experience over the last 7 or 8 years using the Woodturners Blades. Most of mine have lasted about a year or so. Timberwolf blades have disappointed me a few times.

[Hayes Rutherford]

A year?? I usually change out after 4 hours max of green wood processing (Highland Hardware 3tpi, .032 included) Of course a grain of sand could make that 4 minutes.

[Roger Chandler]

A year?? I usually change out after 4 hours max of green wood processing (Highland Hardware 3tpi, .032 included) Of course a grain of sand could make that 4 minutes.There are times when I will take a day or two and process wood. Usually when a number of logs in one of my stacks gets where it needs to be cut into blanks, or even has some checking, and is no longer suited for larger bowl blanks.

I take that wood, and cut lots of pen blanks, cube blanks for 3 cornerd bowls, salvaging peppermill blanks, honey dipper blanks, square bowl blanks, etc, etc, etc. By the end of one of those sessions, I usually have several wheelbarrow loads of cut offs used as kindling in the wood stove in winter. I cut quite a lot of wood, including for a couple other turners that live near me, and don’t have the capacity to cut their own.

A couple of times I’ve had the Woodturners blades last for 13 months with just one sharpening of the tooth tips. I have ruined a couple with cross cutting a log, [learned my lesson there, a few years back :eek:]. For the most part, they have lasted way longer than any others I have used. I’ve not used the Lennox Diemasters yet that Reed Gray recommends, as the tooth count is a bit higher than the WTB’s, but may try one in the future. I did have nearly as good success with a Carter Green Wood blade, that is basically the same. I bought it at our Virginia symposium 4 years ago, as they had a booth there, and it was only a little more expensive than the WTB’s.

Perhaps the wood in your area has more silica/sand in the bark and wood than ours here in the Shenandoah Valley, and accounts for the differences in our experiences? Hard to expain otherwise, I guess?

[John K Jordan]

... but I "back point" my blades usually 3 times before throwing them away. The Highland Hardware usually break before 3 sharpenings, ...

What is "back point" sharpening? I sharpen by touching the front of the tooth with a small flat metal-cutting disk on a dremel. Pretty quick.

395253

Yikes, I've never tried one from Highland. I process a lot of green wood into turning blanks. These days I use an 18" Rikon with 1/2" 3tpi blades from Lennox stock. In 18 years I've never had a single blade break on a shop bandsaw.

JKJ

[Dean S Walker]

Im think I am going with the diemaster to start, 3/8 4 tpi and the 1/2 3tpi. Ill let you know. By the way I managed to wear out 1 timberwolf blade in a day I have a lot of blanks on the floor but i'm hoping the diemaster will hang much better, Thanks again for the help ordering tomorrow.

[Hayes Rutherford]

John, back pointing is a term used by filers when referring to the process of grinding or filing the back of the tooth point as a specific operation. (I resharpen the back of the tooth only on 3tpi bands - not saying its better, just easier for me and it works)

You should give the 3/8", .032, 3tpi bands a try. I think you would like them. The gullet shape and set are designed specifically for green wood and only available in 3/8". Another I have used is the .032 3H X-tra Duty fromDiamond Saw works (BandSawBlades.com) They are pretty good for the price.

[John K Jordan]

You should give the 3/8", .032, 3tpi bands a try. I think you would like them.

Thanks, I'll make a note. For now I'm happy with the 1/2" blades I've been using for years. I cut green wood up to 12" thick in the shop, larger wood outside behind the barn on the WoodMizer sawmill.

JKJ

[Dean S Walker]

Thanks John, I agree for the resawing the flatwork boys would be better versed but I think it is down to a two band option kind of a thing. I do most of my flat work by hand so the RK will be what I will try first in 3/4 width. About your 1/2 diemaster 3 tpi, how do you cut your bowl blanks, with a circle jig or by hand?

Van I think it is clear to go with the diemasters, thank you for your sticky and the conversation.

Thanks to everyone for your input this exchange has been helpful.

[David C. Roseman]

Thanks, I'll make a note. For now I'm happy with the 1/2" blades I've been using for years. I cut green wood up to 12" thick in the shop, larger wood outside behind the barn on the WoodMizer sawmill.

JKJ

John, I'm trying to picture how you cut bowl blanks on your WoodMizer. :confused: Or is it that you're splitting full rounds into half rounds?

[John K Jordan]

John, I'm trying to picture how you cut bowl blanks on your WoodMizer. :confused: Or is it that you're splitting full rounds into half rounds?

I made an "L" shaped jig to hold short rounds. (Normally, a log needs to be at least 4' long.) I usually start by cutting a flat on one side then may cut different ways depending on what I want to end up with. When making bowl blanks I usually split into halves and cut out the pith and some flats, then turn the halves over to trim the round off the other side leaving the blank as thick as I can. Then depending, I might turn the piece up on edge (clamped, of course) and flatten both edges. This is how I cut big square blanks for things like vessels. Sometimes I like to cut 2-3" thick mini slabs to dry for a variety of turnings from platters to spindles.

Some pictures from previous sessions:

395310 395311

395312 395313

The last picture is some ambrosia maple I cut into blanks specifically for a club wood auction. It's nice to cut clean, rectangular blocks for this since people can see all six sides and know what they are getting. I can't believe how much some of these go for. I read once that the value of wood goes up with every process.

A friend is bringing a trailer load on Wednesday. Maybe I can get some better pictures.

I cut most smaller green log sections on the shop bandsaw:

395314 395315 395316

I usually cut blocks as large as the log section will allow then cut as many smaller spindle blanks as I can get out of the rest - don't waste much.

395317

JKJ

[David C. Roseman]

John, Aha! I'd been trying to picture you cutting circles on your sawmill!

Now, if someone could design a jig for that... :)

[Roger Chandler]

Okay...I took the leap! After a number of these discussions on bandsaw blades over the years, and Reed Gray saying that the Diemaster 2 blades are the best for making logs into blanks, [and a couple of others as well] I went ahead and ordered them for both my saws.....an 18" Jet and a 14" Grizzly.

I am looking forward to seeing if they do better than the Woodturners Blade from Highland Woodworking.

I got the 4 tpi, 3/8", .035 blades, made with M42 cobalt from Spectrum Supply.

Reed, I'll either have to thank you in the future, or.............:D

[John K Jordan]

John, Aha! I'd been trying to picture you cutting circles on your sawmill!

Now, if someone could design a jig for that... :)

I think I could design a jig - I'd consider an extremely sturdy rotating jig with the piece clamped with hydraulics. But the radius would have to be a pretty big - the blade is wide!


When I cut circles I do it in the shop. Fairly large blanks already cut into cylinders and waxed and ready to turn are among the top sellers at our wood auctions - people can REALLY see better what they are getting! We brought in about $1600 each of the past two years for our turning club. (I'm always asked to be the auctioneer since I'm loud and have no shame and pretend to know a teeny bit about wood...)

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JKJ