card scraper hook HELP

[mike johnston]

I have decided to give card scrapers another try. Watched dozens of videos on how to put a hook on one. I was born with a very recessive sharpening gene, but a hook on a scraper seems simple enough, but no hook. First I use a file to square and flatten, then a diamond stone to smooth edge and both sides, then burnisher to pull metal. then burnisher to try to make hook. No hook If it makes any difference, Bahco scrapers Crown burnisher.

Thanks Mike

[Steven Harrison]

I have decided to give card scrapers another try. Watched dozens of videos on how to put a hook on one. I was born with a very recessive sharpening gene, but a hook on a scraper seems simple enough, but no hook. First I use a file to square and flatten, then a diamond stone to smooth edge and both sides, then burnisher to pull metal. then burnisher to try to make hook. No hook If it makes any difference, Bahco scrapers Crown burnisher.

Thanks Mike

How much pressure are you using when you burnish?

[Derek Cohen]

Mike, there are two key elements in preparing a scraper: drawing out the steel, and then turning the hook. The hook in formed in two operations (not one) ...

Taken from my website: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/WoodworkTechniques/FoolproofSharpeningOfCard%28Cabinet%29Scraper.html


Step 6: Draw out the steel. This is one of the vital ingredients. You want to pull the steel outwards with the burnisher. You will not create a proper hook without doing so. About 5 strokes from the left and 5 from the right. Light strokes (gently scraping the surface) ..


http://www.inthewoodshop.com/WoodworkTechniques/FoolproofSharpeningOfCard(Cabinet)Scraper_html_701 b7dc5.jpg (http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Scraping/8a_zpsglunosp4.jpg)


Step 7: Turn the hook at about 5 degrees. Do the 5 and 5 again ...


http://www.inthewoodshop.com/WoodworkTechniques/FoolproofSharpeningOfCard(Cabinet)Scraper_html_m57 e64c72.jpg (http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Scraping/9a_zpsfyxcng8y.jpg)


Step 8: This is another crucial omitted step - do it again but at closer to 10 degrees.


http://www.inthewoodshop.com/WoodworkTechniques/FoolproofSharpeningOfCard(Cabinet)Scraper_html_40a 8c05e.jpg (http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Scraping/10a_zpsb4m0gixk.jpg)


Step 9: Now take your shavings!


http://www.inthewoodshop.com/WoodworkTechniques/FoolproofSharpeningOfCard(Cabinet)Scraper_html_13b 1f000.jpg (http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Scraping/11a_zpspyeoqxi7.jpg)

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Andrew Seemann]

Try skipping the diamond stone, in case you are slightly rounding the edge. Most things don't require a scraper sharpened past file sharp anyways. Make sure that the 90 degree edge feels sharp, or you won't be able to turn the burr. I just run the burnisher across the edge once at about 5 - 10 degrees or so (I'm cheap, so I just use the back of a carving chisel). You don't have to push super hard, medium pressure is about right. Derek's method probably gets a better burr, but you should be able to get a usable burr in one pass, and it is probably easier to start with. It can take a while to get the hang of it, so don't despair, it is worth it in the end.

[Bill McDermott]

Mike, It helps me to use my bench to guide my burnisher. As in Derek's drawing out picture, use the benchtop to limit and encourage the very slight angle when drawing out. Then I like to put the scraper in my vise, protruding only a quarter inch or so. That helps guide and limit the turning of the hook process. Also, remember to oil your burnisher. Odd that you're not getting a hook. My problem is making the hook too large. It takes very little effort. Final thought is, when you are filing, keep going until you get nice long peels of steel. That's when the old, work hardened steel is removed. God bless a sharp scraper!

[Doug Hepler]

Mike,

Just to add to suggestions already made. (1) I use a Veritas Jointer-Edger to hold the file. If you simply hold the burnisher at 90 deg to the scraper and burnish it, you should be able to feel a hook with your finger. If you can't, maybe you are not pushing hard enough. Use a bit of lubricant to prevent spalling. (2) For what it's worth, you can buy a an adjustable burnisher to help you get the angle right and repeatable. http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=32633&cat=1,310,41070 Maybe that would help. (You can also make one -- I did.)

Doug

[glenn bradley]

We all tend to preach the method that get's us a good hook. There apparently is not one sure-fire method or there wouldn't be so many differences in methods used by very qualified folks. I too suffer from the recessive sharpening gene. Take heart, there is hope, I'm proof.

I do very much like Derek and others. I do diamond stone the edges, I do use a squared scrap of wood to assure that I hold the scraper true to the stone.

I then pull the steel but, don't know that I do this as many times. I tend to put a mild hook on one long edge, a greater amount of hook on one end and do the same for the other long edge. Then I put a real hella-hook on the other short edge for real aggressive work.

Again, similar to Derek, I burnish the hook a couple times at 5*, once or twice more for a greater hook on one end and the other long edge and then once again for an even greater hook on that short edge I use for all sorts of strange and wonderful things,

In short, like a lot of sharpening tasks, it is a matter of repetition and familiarity that let you do this quickly and reliably. We just don't put a hook on scrapers that often unless we use them. We don't use them unless we can sharpen them . . . Catch-22!

I have the same problem with dovetails, I do them so seldom I have to do 2 or 3 practice runs to get my chops back before I do the "keepers". Maybe someday I will have done enough of them to just do a set correctly right off the bat.

[lowell holmes]

I find a triangular burnisher yields a sharper hook.


https://www.google.com/search?q=triangular+scraper+burnisher&rlz=1C1UCRO_enUS813US813&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=6KQF2AeOCUfitM%253A%252CWai2T8Bc08r9cM%252C_&usg=AI4_-kRIUDo9fQySqzCuRSMjYcELod2DBQ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwil28P4o4neAhVJhq0KHcjqAF8Q9QEwA3oECAYQC A#imgrc=6KQF2AeOCUfitM:

[Tom Trees]

A single cut file resting on a perfectly square block of wood, whilst butting it against the side of your scraper will make the edges truly square,
and a similar procedure for working on the stone.
It should be able to scrape as is after that, and if not.... you need to go back to the file
This I expect is your problem
Burnish at an angle a few degrees under 90 on both sides of the scraper, or do all four long edges if you need to do plenty of scraping
Tom

[David Eisenhauer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSJ-FsQQz8k This helped me.

Two things that were recommended above stood out to me when I went through the thread above that I agree with. Bill Mc said to get "nice long peels of steel" when filing. I don't think I was filing enough when I had problems as it is not always enough to just have shiny surface across the length of the scraper. Tom T said that you should be able to scrape even without turning the hook and that lines up with what Mike says in the attached video link. He says you should check progress as you go along the steps to turning a hook and should be able to get some scraping action as you go through the steps, albeit not as nice a scrape as with a proper hook. I had abandoned my original, beloved Sandvik scraper because I could not consistently turn a hook on it until I got serious with the filing job I did on it. Trying the edge as I went along also told me when to back up a step before proceeding.

[Prashun Patel]

I think using a card scraper is a little like riding a bike. IMHO the only thing honing and pulling then rolling the hook does is improve the quality and longevity of the cut. I don’t mean to diminish that.

But to pull a shaving all one needs is a field edge. I actually suggest starting with this. Just file the edge square. You will still get an edge that will cut. Only after you get used to how this feels would I move on to burnishing. Even then, I would learn to roll and get used to how that works before tackling the draw out.

This path will allow you to start playing songs before you know all the scales.

[mike johnston]

thank you all, will try again as soon as I get back in the shop. Prashun wish it was like riding a bike, I do that 3 to 5k a year, much easier than a hook.

[Robert Engel]

Mike,

Looks to me like you are doing everything right. Using an aid to hold the card perpendicular to the stone seems to make a difference for me. A simple block of wood will suffice. Same thing when filing (which you should only have to do rarely). I think a lot of problems can come from the edge not being square.

My other suggestion is focus on pressure. The mistake I used to make was too much pressure. I believe this draws out too much steel, which results in a weak, poorly performing hook.

You know you've got it right when the hook is barely detectable (more like a burr on an iron when sharpening).

The more steep the angle, the better it will work. I usually hold the burnisher just a few degrees off 90.

William Ng has an excellent video on YouTube.

[lowell holmes]

I have this tool. It really sets a hook on the card scraper.


https://twocherriesusa.com/product/burnisher-triangle-with-wooden-handle/

[Steve Hubbard]

What Doug said: "use a bit of lubricant". For me, that was the final key. Maybe it helps in applying steady pressure along the edge.

[mike johnston]

I have a hook thank you everyone. Don't know what I did different, maybe a little more pressure when drawing the steel.

thanks again

[Charles Guest]

Look no further:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAlcgWKdIlo

His website: https://charteris.net/

[Edwin Santos]

+1 on the William Ng video on YouTube. I think Wood Whisperer is the one who actually shot and uploaded it.
William's instructions are precise, clear and work perfectly.

Do this and you'll be bicycling like Lance....... nevermind.

Edwin