I'm looking for PC 521 stair template owners manual

[Jack Wilson]

Does ANYONE have an owner/users manual for an original Porter Cable or Rockwell 521 stair layout template? I've just acquired an old one, (obviously, since they haven't been made in years). I would REALLY like as much info as I can get for this unit.

Thanks!

The attached photo is not my unit, but it's the same model.

[Tom M King]

I always used a homemade one, but always wanted one of those. The real question is it designed for a bushing, or a bit with a pilot bearing. I would expect it was made for a bushing, thinking about when they made those. Picture is one I already have here, of a set of stairs I built in 1991 with my homemade template. They still fit tight, and perfectly. Hopefully, you can find a manual, but if not, I can tell you how to use it.

It's the sensible, and easy way to build a set of perfectly fitting stairs. They don't have to be assembled before putting them in place. I always assembled them in place. I see experts on TV cutting, and fitting each tread, and can only shake my head (sideways).

[Bill Orbine]

Maybe you could poke around at OWWM.com for information regarding the template, but I doubt it.

[Dan Rude]

Found this: http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Using_a_StairStringer.html; has some fair directions. Dan

[Richard Wolf]

There used to be a guy in NJ that was making new ones, that was quite a few years ago. I have one of the new ones and there really isn't much to know about them. The bullnose piece is adjustable for the amount of overhang you use, 1", 1 1/4" or 1 1/2". The bottom adjusters are for your wedge angles, which once set should be left alone. The fence bars on top are set to your stair angle for each stair you build. The little screw attachment on the top middle is to line up you tick marks from your raise and run. The only thing you need to figure out is what size bushing you need to end up with the correct recess.
If you have questions, just ask.

[Tom M King]

Bushing size can be determined by the width of the inside of the template, right at the base of the bullnose. Typically, treads were exactly 1" thick, so if that measurement, as an example, is 1-1/4", you would need a bushing that offsets the bit 1/8" from the cutting edge.

[Richard Wolf]

Here is a link to my stair template; https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?25396-Stairbuilding-101&highlight=


Found the website, you may find some helpful information here; https://cordesmachine.com/stair-template/

[Tom M King]

Richard, That's a nice looking template. I would very much have enjoyed having one, but not bad enough to pay for it. I only built staircases for the one house a year I built for 33 years, so I always just used the homemade one. I read the other thread too. My one comment is about stairs with the treads open on one end. For those, I always made the inner stringer housed.

One thing I did is frame the walls so that fasteners for the stringers could be put in the housings, so they wouldn't be seen, by putting a stud behind each one. That allowed the stringer to be pulled up tight on top of the finished wall as well. I built the whole house, so every step worked together with the adjoining parts. The wall would be painted first, and the stair parts finished before assembly. Inspectors would ask me how I got that pipe in the wall. Answer would be that I put it in there when I framed the wall.

I also made risers, and treads out of complete boards, rather than use glued up boards.

[Richard Wolf]

Tom, my business was really Railings, which had a very good profit margin. I worked by myself for a lot of years and then my son for about 8 years. Building curved staircases was good money, I never liked building straight stairs because it was to time consuming and material cost were high. It was tough to compete with the large stair "factory" companies. Plus the builders would always ask for a basement stairs, two steps down to the laundry room and I need a half flight for the garage. No profit in any of those when the boss is doing all the work and it's keeping you from high profit work. In business for 25 years and I had some loyal builders that I would build straight stairs for but didn't push for it.

I used to be very happy doing railings, and used to think how lucky I was to be able to make a living doing woodworking. At the end it got very difficult to put up with people's shit and attitudes and I looked forward to retirement.

[Tom M King]

Sounds interesting. I only built waterfront spec houses, and never did any of that type of work for anyone else. I'd start a house in the Fall, and sell it in the Spring. I only worked with a couple of helpers- not a telephone. Never used a prehung door, or premade cabinet. I built my first one that sold in the Spring of 1974 as a test to see if I could make any money doing it. I didn't know what it cost to do anything. I never changed. I tell people I figure out how much it costs to build something by building it, and they think I'm joking.

I sold my last one in 2007. Anyone who couldn't see bad things coming had their head up their butt. I went full time to working on old historic houses, and have been having fun doing that full time since. I don't think about estimates, or deadlines, but work keeps piling up. I could stop at 68, but am having too much fun. If you ever come by up this way, stop by, and I'll show you around these parts.

[Jack Wilson]

Here is a link to my stair template; https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?25396-Stairbuilding-101&highlight=


Found the website, you may find some helpful information here; https://cordesmachine.com/stair-template/


Hey Richard, Thanks for the info. I called them before I bought mine, I believe you have the "Model 7", I was quoted $2400, or $2700, doesn't make much difference, I wasn't going to spend that much. That's a crazy price. Pretty sure I could take a sketchup drawing to a local water jet place and have them cut one out for just a couple hundred dollars. Anyway, I got the old Porter Cable because I was tired of making plywood ones and dealing with wear and run out.

[Jack Wilson]

Maybe you could poke around at OWWM.com for information regarding the template, but I doubt it.


I tried before I post, came up dry.

[Jack Wilson]

Found this: http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Using_a_StairStringer.html; has some fair directions. Dan


Dan, that link is kind of a dead end I think.

[Richard Wolf]

Hey Richard, Thanks for the info. I called them before I bought mine, I believe you have the "Model 7", I was quoted $2400, or $2700, doesn't make much difference,

That price is crazy, like I said in my post, I paid under $700. It was originally designed and built by a guy in Pa. that was a stairbuilder and came up with some unique tools including the template. He was a super nice guy and sent me things before I even paid for them. If my memory served me correct, and I'm 70, so maybe not, he sold the rights to someone else, not Cordes Machines. Cordes is a larger company that manufactures stair equipment. So I believe that Cordes may be the 3rd owner of the product. I guess it may be time to put mine up for sale, I guess I could get my money back.

Where in upstate NY are you from. I went to college in Oswego, Spent some time in the Adirondacks, taught in Ossining. I grew up on Long Island and ended up there until I retired and left as soon as I could.

[Jack Wilson]

Where in upstate NY are you from. I went to college in Oswego, Spent some time in the Adirondacks, taught in Ossining. I grew up on Long Island and ended up there until I retired and left as soon as I could.


I'm in a little town near Letchworth state park, halfway between Rochester and Buffalo.

[Tom M King]

Jack and Richard, I thought about these stairs, and thought you guys might like to see them. They're in a 1798 house I work on periodically, when the Foundation that owns it manages to raise some money. This house has never been remodeled, and the stairs even have the 18th Century first coat of paint on them-Cobalt Blue.

They have housed stringers. Of course, the housings were done then by hand, with a stair saw, and chisel. There is a backsaw company that sells parts for stair saws, and I wondered when I saw that if anyone knew what they were for. The wedges don't go full length like are used by the templates this thread is about. Instead, the housings are cut fairly tight, and the wedges jambed in from the side of the stringers. There is an odd little "closet" under these stairs that allows access to the underside of the staircase.

[Richard Wolf]

I know those type of stairs. Hurts just looking at them. Stay to the outside. I have an old stair saw. I found one in and old store in San Diego when visiting my daughter. I didn't buy it, I would only use it for a wall hanger. My daughter got it for me for my birthday one year. The blade looks a little course. If you find that company selling parts, let me know, maybe I'll invest in a new blade.

[Tom M King]

I remembered what it was: https://tgiag.com/sawplate.html

[Jack Wilson]

Jack and Richard, I thought about these stairs, and thought you guys might like to see them. They're in a 1798 house I work on periodically, when the Foundation that owns it manages to raise some money. This house has never been remodeled, and the stairs even have the 18th Century first coat of paint on them-Cobalt Blue.

They have housed stringers. Of course, the housings were done then by hand, with a stair saw, and chisel. There is a backsaw company that sells parts for stair saws, and I wondered when I saw that if anyone knew what they were for. The wedges don't go full length like are used by the templates this thread is about. Instead, the housings are cut fairly tight, and the wedges jambed in from the side of the stringers. There is an odd little "closet" under these stairs that allows access to the underside of the staircase.

Tom, thank you for that interesting bit of history! I think it's pretty cool to go back and see how things were constructed, before my time.

[Tom M King]

I built new houses for 33 years, but have been working on old houses since I built my last new one in 2007. I had gotten tired of it by then anyway. These days, I'm having a lot more fun with new puzzles to solve every day. I don't do remodeling. I put ones worth saving back to look like they did to start with.

That staircase has a landing right out of sight around the top of that bend, and then continues straight up for a ways more. There was a chapel upstairs. I think Richard may have given the best clue why they were built like that.

[Tom M King]

I went over to check that house after the storm (all fine), and stuck my phone up under the stairs to take a couple of pictures. Not many parts have a wedge in them anywhere. I guess they just stuck one in if there was a squeak. Overall, everything was fitted pretty tight to start with. The interesting thing is that they went to a lot of trouble to leave access under the whole stairway. Pictures rotated 90 degrees.