Carbide Planer Blades For WR Cedar?

[Joe Wood]

I get all my wr cedar rough and then plane it down. We check carefully by eye for staples and then have at it but within 20' of surfacing there's a nick in the knives, and then more and I'm getting tied of changing knives! It's not staples but something like road grit which we can't spot as easily.

I've heard carbide knives aren't as sharp as HS steel. Will they still do a good job on the soft cedar and will they hold up to the road grit, and maybe staples??

[Joe Wood]

Jeez never mind I asked the same question Jan 2016 ..
https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?239476-Carbide-Planer-Knives

[Martin Wasner]

Jeez never mind I asked the same question Jan 2016 ..
https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?239476-Carbide-Planer-Knives


That's freaking awesome.

[Mark Bolton]

Not to mention there is no knife that will deal with staple and remain unscathed

[Lee Schierer]

Where are you getting 20' boards of wr cedar that also have embedded road grit. Is this recycled material? Perhaps you should consider getting a large dual belt sanding station to run it through first.

[Joe Wood]

No this is straight from the mill in Vancouver Island. I have no idea how the road grit gets on it. I'm the west coast and have a few suppliers I order from. I never get tired working this stuff :-)

[Andrew Hughes]

I found some WRC to have a high silica esp the good stuff. It does also pick up stuff easy we have to be very careful where we stack.
That stuff looks very good Joe.

[brent stanley]

I was going to say, it could be silica streaks here and there that are doing them in on you. In which case I have found that higher quality HSS will in fact withstand those better. Hit and miss as to whether or not carbide would chip or withstand it. Even without that, cedar is going to be hard on knives. You're really into territory where a segmented insert head really shines.

B

[Joe Wood]

How do you know of the silica content Andrew, what do you notice in the timber?

What are these silica streaks Brent?

[Andrew Hughes]

Tried to hand plane some WRC that was very dark brown and it just ripped the edge right off my blade.
Ive also connected the high silica with great outdoor use.
One year I had a good run making fancy gates.$$

[Wayne Lomman]

Just use carbide blades. I don't get how anyone can do more than 5 minutes work with HSS and still have an edge especially in a production environment. The argument over carbide not being as sharp is academic. Carbide stays sharp for a good length of time. WRC is soft but you can machine it for months on carbide blades with no tooling changes. The change will cut your costs. Cheers

[Mel Fulks]

Wayne, I have never seen a new planer that had real high speed steel knives. All were low grade "semi high speed". Have you tried M2, or T1 ?

[Wayne Lomman]

Mel, I agree that OEM planer blades are rarely worthwhile. However, I have never in all my working life in several shops had to put up with HSS because it simply does not perform all day every day like carbide does. HSS is not cost effective. There is too much down time for servicing and too much dimensional drift as the tooling loses its edge. It has not mattered what timber I have worked with which includes most of the species discussed on this site plus all the Australian hardwoods and imported mahogany.

I recommend to everyone to use carbide machine tools for their long life and how they retain sharpness between servicing. This improves machining accuracy as it reduces re-calibrating tooling after honing as you need to do with HSS.

I know Australia has way more abrasive timbers than many places but carbide tools are still worthwhile for WRC as the OP is dealing with. Any tooling is destroyed by staples and large rocks etc but carbide will handle the dust and dirt that destroys HSS.

Hand tools are an entirely different matter however.

Cheers

[Mel Fulks]

Well, Your place has some famously tough woods. I've had good results with the better steels.

[Andrew Hughes]

This is a reason why I like to have knives in my jointer. Because I can choose my steel to suit my needs if I were facing carts full of beautiful cedar like joe shared I would seriously consider carbide tipped knives.
Most of what I work with does fine with m2 and t1. Plus I don’t mind changing knives out when I start seeing dust of feed pressure go up.
My days of buying exotic wood from the Amazon jungle of Africa are done not interested anymore. Plus I’ve become sensitive to dust or oils from many exotics. So my road is narrow, but have accepted air dried wood from neighborhood is plenty satisfying.
Good luck Joe.

[Warren Lake]

never had issues with high speed steel and using it since the start honing it before every job every job they are sharp. Generally ran 300 or under feet at a time. Do have Esta insert knives that came with one machine but never tried them. Is it possible the cedar is left in an area where sand is in the wind and getting blown into it same as barn board. That stuff will trash your knives in no time.

[Joe Wood]

I'd still like to know about the silica and silica 'streaks'.

I have 7 sets of the HSS knives but would like to try out the carbide. What's a good carbide grade and where can I get them?

[Brian Holcombe]

Some WRC I resharpen my hand planes every 10 minutes, other stuff is just a breeze. I would expect carbide would be a good choice for it for planer knives.

[Warren Lake]

if so think you are likely better to step up to carbide insert. either you change a head or go with something like Esta that uses the existing head. Possible the newer carbide insert stuff is sharper than the old style carbide and for sure faster to change. Guys here who have used both will tell you.

[Joe Wood]

What is the carbide insert Warren, got a link I could look at? I have a 15" Grizzly if that matters.

[Warren Lake]

a number of the guys here have either after market heads spiral or straight insert or some have machines that came either of those styles of heads. The Esta and should look before I tell you as my memory is not great are also reversable insert cutters but they work on a stock head with a knife holder that is pre set much like the hand power planer knives where there is a knife holder once set up they go in the same setting each time. ILl try and look at the Esta in the next day or two but you could look them up

[Joe Wood]

My head has three straight blades with no adjustment screws.

[Warren Lake]

I guess this is the latest system ones i have are supported a different way

394326

[Warren Lake]

site wont let me see my post so a new one. looking at the price list I dont see carbide listed and thought that is what came with one machine maybe not.


394327

[Warren Lake]

they have M2 and in the Cobalt M42 there is not carbide they said as its too thin to make in insert. The new style knife holder works on most heads and they are phasing out the old system but still have some left. Initial cost is whatever it is for the holder and knives then after that replacement knife cost. Id imagine set up is fast but not fast like the Terminus type which from what ive seen is the fastest. I was told with spiral if you chip a cutter and rotate only one then that one will sit higher than the others that have time on them if that is accurate im not sure but was told that.

[Alan Schwabacher]

I think for the carbide inserts you need to replace the cutterhead. You can get carbide-tipped straight knives to fit ordinary planer heads at Holbren dot com. I have no experience with them.

[Warren Lake]

need some guys that have run the carbide knives then also run the insert stuff but thought I read the insert is sharper than they can get the conventional style carbide knives.

[Wayne Lomman]

Last WRC job I did the planer had a carbide insert head and the thicknesser carbide tipped straight knives. Inserts lasted about 30% longer than brazed tips. This was at my shop in South Australia.

The difference is the durability of the carbide. Inserts don't have to survive brazing so are harder material.

Durability is different to sharpness. Both grades are equally sharp when new/freshly ground. Inserts retain that sharp edge longer as they are higher grade material.

Honing HSS every time it is used is neither desirable nor economic. Each touch up changes the angle of the cutting edge and reduces its efficiency. Time is lost doing the honing adding to the inefficiency. You have to recalibrate machinery you account for the change in cutter length. All these things were acceptable when there was no alternative but that is no longer the case.
Cheers

[Frank Pratt]

I've never worried about the little nicks that inevitably show up on jointer & planer knives. The surface off a jointer or planer is not finish ready anyway & the ridges left by the nicks sand away very quickly.