3/4 or 1 1/4 inch shaper spindle for Minimax CU300 C

[Mickey Bradshaw]

My new CU300 was delivered earlier this week. The machine came with the 1.25 inch shaper spindle and I'm upset with myself that I didn't negotiate for the 3/4 inch spindle to be bundled in the sale because I probably could have received a better price for the additional spindle. I called today and that spindle with the spacer rings would cost about $600 delivered.

I thought about buying the 3/4 spindle because the 3/4 cutters are cheaper and likely more abundant. Initially, I would use the shaper for a couple of 28X80 pantry doors

Is it worth it to buy the 3/4" spindle at this point or should I just stick with the 1.25? Are there any third party sources for the spindles for these machines?

Cheers!!
Mickey

[Jim Becker]

$600 will buy a bunch of 1.25" tooling... ;)

[Jared Sankovich]

The only reason I have 3/4" cutters is that they came with a delta hd I have. I certainly wouldn't spend $600 on a 3/4 spindle.

Just buy 1.25" cutters. With a 40mm head the cost advantage of 3/4 brazed carbide disappears.

[Warren Lake]

nothing to be upset about. Have one that is likely 3/4 and cant stand it. The bulk of tooling at auctions is 1 1/4" until you get to moulders. 1 1/4 spindles are in most of the shops ive been in.

[Van Huskey]

Stick with 1.25". Small tooling gives away much of what one buys a shaper for.

[brent stanley]

My new CU300 was delivered earlier this week. The machine came with the 1.25 inch shaper spindle and I'm upset with myself that I didn't negotiate for the 3/4 inch spindle to be bundled in the sale because I probably could have received a better price for the additional spindle. I called today and that spindle with the spacer rings would cost about $600 delivered.

I thought about buying the 3/4 spindle because the 3/4 cutters are cheaper and likely more abundant. Initially, I would use the shaper for a couple of 28X80 pantry doors

Is it worth it to buy the 3/4" spindle at this point or should I just stick with the 1.25? Are there any third party sources for the spindles for these machines?

Cheers!!
Mickey

Stick with 1 1/4" and never look back!

B

[Bill Adamsen]

Stick with the 1-1/4" and don't think about it again. Be very deliberate and careful acquiring tooling. Good tooling is fantastic.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Mickey, as everyone has said, stick with 1.25" spindle size, the only other one I own is 30mm.

You have a shaper that's big enough to run "normal" size tooling, which will work better than the smaller diameter tooling for a 0.75" shaft.......Rod.

[Mickey Bradshaw]

Thank you for the responses, guys. It seems pretty unanimous that I should just keep what I have an not worry about the 3/4. I will heed that advice!!

Now that that has been decided. What are some good sources for good quality tooling for that shaper? Are combination insert "kits" worth my time. I'm not sure what the actual name is but it has one head and several different inserts depending on the profile you want.

[James Biddle]

That really depends on what you'll be shaping and how much you'll be running. If you're building various kitchens with different style frame and raised panels for profit, it's worth it buy an insert cutter head once and pricing the individual cutters into the cost of the job. If you hardly ever make doors, ordering brazed cutters as you go may be a better method. Also, if you plan on a lot a template work (and the CU300 is somewhat limiting in that area with the available open space to use), having an insert head with a matching bearing may be a good starting point. Don't go crazy on cutter heads for the MM CU300 at the beginning though. I had one and found the changeover from sawing to shaping a pain. Also, did you order one with a power feeder or tip-away bracket? Lack of a power feeder on that machine will dictate on what type of cutters you will want to use. Luckily you're getting to decide before having much of a collection of either.

[Mike Cutler]

Thank you for the responses, guys. It seems pretty unanimous that I should just keep what I have an not worry about the 3/4. I will heed that advice!!

Now that that has been decided. What are some good sources for good quality tooling for that shaper? Are combination insert "kits" worth my time. I'm not sure what the actual name is but it has one head and several different inserts depending on the profile you want.

Mickey

I'm assuming that you're intent is for more personal use and not a business?

It all depends on what you intend to do. The CMT, multi profile insert head kits are nice, but only if you have a use for the profiles. However, there are a lot of profiles available, and the inserts are cheap compared to a brazed carbide cutter
As for the 3/4" versus 1.25". I have probably thirty different 3/4" cutters and complete cutter sets that came with my shaper. So far, I have found a use for only one of those cutters. A drawer joint cutter.
Look to the cutters you need for joinery. T&G, Finger Joint, rabbet, Reversible glue joint, etc. The profiles and cabinet sets will be purpose specific and you'll know when you need them.
I know my next cutters to purchase are a spiral cutter head for template work and a nice rebate cutter with scorers. An adjustable groover would be nice, but they're wicked expensive.

Infinity, Amana, CMT, Freeborn, make some nice cutters and sets for home shops. Almost all are available through BallewSaw, ToolsToday and Amazon.

[Jared Sankovich]

I'd skip the kits and just buy the 40mm head and whatever knives you will use right away. You eventually end up with a pile of knives anyway.

[brent stanley]

Hi Mickey, if you're not anticipating running a million miles of one particular profile in a production environment, you're really better off getting a shaper head that can perform more than one function. It's way cheaper than buying individual heads, much like your machine is cheaper than individual machines. The 40mm head that holds replaceable HSS knives is very common for people in your situation because you purchase the head once and then the cost of individual profile knives is less than a good quality router bit. Whitehill tools in the UK has been making tooling for 90 years and took this concept one step further with their "combi head" which combines the 40mm head that folks refer to with a shear-cut rebate block with scribes. The rebate block is the cutterhead you will probably use the most once you get used to a shaper so with this one head you can carry out a lot of what you might want to do with a shaper. Unlike most other companies Whitehill lets you pick five knives for a set at a discount if you wish so you don't end up with knives that you'll never use. The nice thing about the combi head is they are "no-compromise" in terms of functionality and while you need to remove the profile knives to use the rebate function, you don't ever have to remove the rebate knives.

They make two heads, the 40mm one that people refer to often referred to as a "Euroblock", but also a much larger head that holds higher knives and thicker knives for more flexibility.

**What are the RPM options on your machine? Some of the MM machines provide "industry standard" RPM options at 50hz power common in Europe but when run over here on 60hz leave you with awkward RPM options so you'll need to verify they are appropriate for any tooling you look at.


Here are some catalogue cuts:

394088

394089

B

[Mickey Bradshaw]

Thank you for all of the replies. As you can tell, I'm new to the shaper world and it looks like I've got a lot to chew on.

James, my machine didn't have an option for a power feeder that I'm aware of. I know some guys have added one. In what way does that dictate the cutter? I assume that I would probably want to stay away from moulding work.

Mike, I'm not familiar with CMT. I will check them out.

Brent, I looked at Whitehill's offerings and it's pretty expansive!! Is shipping quite a bit more expensive? How long has it taken your tooling to arrive? I need to look more into that "combi head". It wasn't clear to me what the options are for profile knives. My machine has 3 RPM options based on belt placement, 4200, 8400, and 12000. I will try to attach a pic of the placard on the side of my machine regarding the shaper.
394164

[brent stanley]

Thank you for all of the replies. As you can tell, I'm new to the shaper world and it looks like I've got a lot to chew on.

James, my machine didn't have an option for a power feeder that I'm aware of. I know some guys have added one. In what way does that dictate the cutter? I assume that I would probably want to stay away from moulding work.

Mike, I'm not familiar with CMT. I will check them out.

Brent, I looked at Whitehill's offerings and it's pretty expansive!! Is shipping quite a bit more expensive? How long has it taken your tooling to arrive? I need to look more into that "combi head". It wasn't clear to me what the options are for profile knives. My machine has 3 RPM options based on belt placement, 4200, 8400, and 12000. I will try to attach a pic of the placard on the side of my machine regarding the shaper.
394164

Hi Mickey, thanks for the pic. It's too bad that SCM doesn't seem to offer a different pulley for their North American machines like Felder does because it gives you some awkward RPM combinations running them at 60hz instead of 50hz. Whitehill tests/engineers their heads to be used in more typical RPM environments, and European engineering/safety standards are very high for this. The end result is, technically....on paper....8400 RPM is too fast for the combi heads, and 4200RPM is on the low end of the recommended RPM for it. It's a shame because it's such a cost effective option. What are the odds your machine is 3 Phase? It could be run down a bit with a VFD if it is.

I've always found shipping to be in line with what you'd expect for the size and weight, but of course with something like a head you'd only pay once. Shipping for me has been anywhere between 10 and 20% of the cost of the product for the heavy steel products. Knives of course are much smaller and shipping is only 4-7$ and they usually get them out the door the next day.

The small head is designed for the little "three hole" knives that CMT, Dimar, Amazon, Felder etc sell. These are all mass produced by one company and sold by many, but are the bottom of the barrel in terms of grinding accuracy and steel quality, but are fine for hobby scale users.....I own many. If I want higher quality and longer run times, I have Whitehill make them for me from their steel. So for the small head, knives and limiters are readily available from a number of sources on this side of the pond, but the small head will also accept the 55mm knives Whitehill sells, and they keep countless profiles available off-the-shelf. Just a sample: http://www.whitehill-tools.com/catalogue.php?pid=2460&cid=2&c2id=20
(http://www.whitehill-tools.com/catalogue.php?pid=2460&cid=2&c2id=20)
The larger head opens up a whole other set of doors as it also accepts thicker (and regular ) steel knives, which means the profiles can be much deeper. It's certainly the most flexible head and your machine would have the heft to run it, but the RPM issue is unfortunate.

B

[Rod Sheridan]

I have no idea why SCM would make a nice shaper and then make it almost useless with the odd RPM selections? Unfortunately the speeds are shifted upwards into ranges that eliminate a lot of tooling. It would have been nice if they had provided 3,000, 6,000 and 8,000 RPM or something similar.

All they need is a new pair of pulleys for the 60Hz market.

Regards, Rod.

[brent stanley]

I have no idea why SCM would make a nice shaper and then make it almost useless with the odd RPM selections? Unfortunately the speeds are shifted upwards into ranges that eliminate a lot of tooling. It would have been nice if they had provided 3,000, 6,000 and 8,000 RPM or something similar.

All they need is a new pair of pulleys for the 60Hz market.

Regards, Rod.

It's really too bad. I emailed SCM about it to verify that they don't have another pulley available and I let everyone know what they say, but I believe Mark already did this.

[Peter Kelly]

Brent, I looked at Whitehill's offerings and it's pretty expansive!!For what it is quality-wise, Whitehill is pretty reasonable.

[Todd Bender]

Routerbitworld has the lowest prices I've found for Freeborn cutters. If I can't find it on their site I call and they get it for me.

[Warren Lake]

I emailed a contact there as well and told them its wake up time loosing sales, he might be away ill try again.

[Mickey Bradshaw]

I guess I'm missing something regarding the RPM ranges. So far, the only cutter head that I've seen that didn't fit the machines ranges was the 40mm combi head from Whitehill.....but their larger combi head (50 or 55mm) does fit the rpm ranges of the Minimax.

[brent stanley]

I guess I'm missing something regarding the RPM ranges. So far, the only cutter head that I've seen that didn't fit the machines ranges was the 40mm combi head from Whitehill.....but their larger combi head (50 or 55mm) does fit the rpm ranges of the Minimax.

Hi Mickey, you'll find that the larger diameter blocks will offer a much better cut and they will typically have an upper limit somewhere in the 7000s. That is why MM gives you that RPM option in Europe and should in NA as well. Heads run safely at 8400 RPM will be smaller diameter, and any larger ones supposedly capable of higher I would be suspicious of. The larger combi head could work well with large projection knives at the lowest RPM, but I expect it would be too slow when used for rebateing at that low of an RPM.

I know people run the smaller combi head at the higher RPM but of course it can't be reccomended.

B

[Mickey Bradshaw]

Hi Brent, what you write makes sense. I just can't believe that out of all of the different posts that I've read when trying to make a decision of what machine to buy, no one in the Minimax camp ever mentioned this limitation. I may start another thread to see how CU 300 owners have dealt with it. I do appreciate your input and thank you for pointing that out.

[brent stanley]

I did a quick survey and I don't think the heads with limiters can do the higher RPM, though the Amana ones without limiters are good for 9000. It's really too bad, because the limiters are a great idea for safety and in fact are mandatory for manually operated machines in Europe.....even with a power feeder.

Limiters are not as popular in NA so many folks just use the little Amana ones, so it may not be so much of an issue, but your machine has the heft to run larger blocks and It's too bad you can't.

I also sent SCM an email saying they're silly but haven't heard anything back! We'll see....if enough people get on them they may do what Felder does.....especially if people say that Felder does!

B