First Experience with RTA cabinets

[julian abram]

Not sure this is actually a woodworking experience but thought I'd share as it is somewhat related to wood fibers. At the University I oversee lab facilities for one of the Engineering departments. This summer we started remodeling a lab that had not been updated since the 60's. We removed old metal cabinets with plastic drawers that had manufacture's tags "Sears & Roebuck". We normally purchase top of the line metal cabinets from Laboratory suppliers like VWR or Fisher Hamilton. Quote's running in the $20,000 range from these suppliers was way over the budget for this particular lab. I could have built 3/4 birch or maple cabinets in my shop but after a 6 month project of building cabinets for our kitchen I was in cabinet burnout.
I contracted with a regional cabinet shop to build RTA units for about $7,000. I've have no experience with RTAs but have read and heard some of the negative experiences with them, so I was a little concerned. These units were Folks gray melamine 3/4" particle board core with 5/8" clear finished BB drawers. We have spent a few days assembling these and I must say I am impressed with the machining and fit of the pieces. The pieces are very precisely dimensioned, machining on all the pocket screw holes, mortise and tenons joints, etc. is very good. Assembled drawers are very strong. We used Titebond II on all the joints before installing screws.
So overall it's been a good learning experience about RTAs.I would certainly consider using them again on future projects. The particle board core still kind of bothers me, but you get what you pay for. This is a "dry" lab so hopefully the core will have good longevity.

[Peter Kelly]

Any photos? Interested to see how pocket screws were used on melamine-clad particleboard boxes. They aren't the usual thing you'd see with RTA furniture.

[John Goodin]

I bought some RTAs from the sister company of a business that liquidates lumber for a flip house and was quite impressed with the quality for the money. They took about twenty minutes a piece to put together with plywood sides, birch face frames, soft close doors and drawers. Cabinets for a small kitchen and two bathrooms was less than 3000 dollars. The finish was so good I doubt the average person could tell the difference between those and a set that costs three times as much.

[keith micinski]

I do 4-5 kitchens a year and 7–10 bathrooms a year and I can guarantee you the average and even non average person can’t tell Rta cabinets aren’t full custom units. I’m not sure why anyone would pay 10-20k for cabinets unless you were a millionare and even then it would be a waste of money. I would rather replace my cabinets 4 times with rta and still have money left over. Problem is you wouldn’t have to replace them at all because they will last just as long, so you will have to spend that money on something else.

[Ed Labadie]

Did about 20' of base cabinets for my mom's hobby room.

Went with Ikea...very impressed, all Blum hardware.

One just needs to make sure you have posi-drive bits, no phillips there.

Ed

[julian abram]

Peter I'll take some photos tomorrow and post tomorrow evening. Pocket holes were machined for the drawer assemblies and the stretchers/spanners, backs and floors on the case work.

[Peter Kelly]

Thx. The usual thing is wood dowels and either Confirmats or Minifix through the exterior. I imagined flakeboard would compress too much and buckle with a pocket screw? Ijnterested to see the results.

[Cary Falk]

I think for the average home RTA are perfectly fine. I was suppose to help a friend make his cabinets but in the interest of time he decided to co to a cabinet shop. They just ordered the cabinets and installed them. He would have been better off ordering and installing them himself. I was not impressed with the cabinets of the install job. I looked into doing RTA in my kitchen. It would be about $6K. They said they were semi custom but they are the same thing I have. there are a bunch of things I don't like about them but the average person wouldn't know any better. My cabinet are clear coated maple(yellowish) and my wife wants white. I will likely keep the boxes and make new door and draw fronts. There a few things that I can add and modify to get them closer to the way we want. My boxes are unfortunately particle board but have held up fine except for under the sink.

[keith micinski]

Cary take a look at this web site, if your boxes were particle board and your sink cabinet is already in tough shape then these at a minimum are a step up from that. They use plywood, great softclose hardware, dovetails, and there elegant white shaker line really does offer enough stuff to pretty much build a custom kitchen the way you want it. It's all hardwood fronts with mdf panels which is what you want in a painted cabinet. It's been my experience a local cabinet shop or even "high end" Merrilat cabinets cost 3-4 times as much to hot glue and staples plastic brackets together for the boxes. https://www.rtacabinetstore.com/

[Cary Falk]

Keith,

Those look pretty similar to what Kitchen Cabinet Kings gave me a quote for. Unfortunately they offer the same things I hate about my cabinets. The first thing is wasted space. You buy boxes in increments of 3 inches. I have an odd shaped kitchen, I have spacers to make up for space that is not disable by 3". I think it looks horrible. Other people would probably not notice. The second is when put a bunch of boxes side by side the space between doors within a box is different than the space between doors between 2 boxes. For the cost it takes to buy a set of cabinets that I hate I could make a set that I love. In the interest of saving money I will refinish the boxes I have and make new door and drawer fronts. The particle board has held up really well except the sink. I have a couple of options to remedy this when I pull it. I worked in a custom cabinet shop when I was in high school so some things that seem to be standard now days just seem cheap made to me.

[julian abram]

Thx. The usual thing is wood dowels and either Confirmats or Minifix through the exterior. I imagined flakeboard would compress too much and buckle with a pocket screw? Ijnterested to see the results.

Peter here are some photos of the pocket screw holes, surprising the screws did seem to pull the joints tight. As I mentioned we used Titebond II on the joints as well.

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[keith micinski]

I want to make sure I understand you correctly. That 16th of an inch difference in gap size from door to cabinet is what bothers you? I'm pretty sure I could get it even closer if I really buckled down on adjusting the doors a little more. Also you must be braver then me because I would never try and put a block of cabinets together without a filler panel in it to make up for inconsistencies in framing walls, drywall, and even the best cabinet maker can miss a cabinet by a 32nd or a 16th every now and agian.

[Jim Dwight]

We redid our kitchen last year and I wanted to at least buy one RTA cabinet to assess them. But my wife insisted we buy KitchenMaid from Lowes because she liked the display (I am not making this up). The price difference was at least a factor of 2, might have been 3. I installed them. I paid extra to get plywood boxes. Drawers are dovetailed. Doors are pretty well built. We wanted shaker but they are raised panel with the raised panel turned inboard. Pretty well finished and dimensionally accurate. But 3 inch increments and bottom mount drawer slides waste a LOT of space. Boxes are good grade but 1/2 plywood.

I have no experience but I still think it's worth trying RTA, I think the brand I liked was Lily Ann but I also found another brand that worked up a design for us. There are quite a few alternatives. But if I had the time, I would have wanted to make them. I did one kitchen and it took a long time but we liked the results.

[Cary Falk]

Keith,
I am saying that where there wasn't enough room to shoehorn the next size cabinet they make up the gap on the face frame side with a of wood up to 3" wide. The face frames are the same width all the way around. 1/2" overlay. put 2 boxes together and you have a 2" gap between doors while in the center you have 1/2" if you have double doors on the cabinets.

[keith micinski]

Plenty of cabinet lines in rta come in full overlay just like the ones in the photo. Also, if the total loss is less then a 3” filler, that’s about as close as you would want to get no matter what and one solution would be to cut the filler in half so you have 1.5” on each end. One thing I have found is next to appliances and corners especially, it’s actually nice to have a filler there to give you a little more room for doors and drawers to maneuver.

[Prashun Patel]

I have used barker cabinets three times. I have bought them finished and unfinished. I have been impressed with the quality. Plywood, Blum slow close hardware.

[Peter Kelly]

Interesting construction. Looks as though the flakeboard is the denser SYP core stuff which is not too common up here. Drawers look like 18mm radiata plywood? I'm a bit surprised to see undermount slides on commercial casework.

Thx for sharing Julian.

[Cary Falk]

Well when you have 2 cabinets that meet at a 45 degree angle and I have a 1/2" gap from the corner to the door on one side and a 3 1/2" gap from the corner to the door on the other side, that bugs me to no end and I think it looks like crap, I also done like how the face frame overhangs the finished side of a cabinet. Personal preference I guess.