Any One interest on Chinese style hand plane?

[Chao Dong]

Hey, I'm a Chinese Amateur Woodworker living in Canada.
Chinese have a unique style of woodworking barely heard in North America,
they have particular style of woodworking tools as axe, plane, saw, marking, joinery, drill and chisel no one talk-about here.
Any one interest to know? I could gradually post some treadle when I have time.

P.S. Chinese woodworking is quite difference from Japanese

[Hasin Haroon]

Hi Chao. Sure, I'd be interested to learn more about unique aspects of Chinese woodworking/tools.

[Frederick Skelly]

Hi Chao. Welcome! I would enjoy learning about Chinese woodworking, especially cabinet making, furniture making and the tools used.

Fred

[Chao Dong]

Thanks guys, Chinese woodworking can be quite versatile as location, different places have slightly different tools.
In general, Chinese culture more like hardwood than softwood,
so this cause quite a lot difference regarding tools than Japaneses woodworker. For example, the plane iron normally is bevel up with 50 degree for a smoother plane and could up to 60 degree
for final finish for rosewood. and cap iron normally is a must. One example from a 1960 book shown a typical northern china jack plane as below
393604
another funny stuff is they use inches after 1900. but some times mix with a unit system shared with
japanese with little twist(1分 = 3.33mm, japanese 1分 = 3.03mm), after 1949 they using mm too. so unit conversion
sometimes is headache

[steven c newman]

Have had this one in my shop..for a while..
393611
2" iron, 15" long "jack" plane...

[Vincent Tai]

Chao, any experience/knowledge would be very well received and appreciated. I would be particularly interested myself. To echo Steven I'm sure a lot of people will be interested. I think woodworkers tend to be a curious bunch by nature.

Steven; If only I could read Chinese. Shame on me lol, I had to pop it in to google translate, no need to translate to English for me - just the romanizations that appear underneath the text which are actually spot on so I can get (sound out) the full meaning. I discovered that just now. That's going to hurt my brain a little, reading Chinese through the the English alphabet. At least I can speak Chinese fine... sort of.

[Luke Dupont]

I'm quite intrigued by Chinese woodworking methods. A time ago, I saw how to make a Chinese bow saw and made one myself with a rotating blade. Never quite got proficient at cutting with it at an angle though.

Do the Chinese generally use a work bench, or planing boards / beams? Work holding often goes hand in hand with tool use, so I'm curious.

[Jim Koepke]

Howdy Chao and welcome to the Creek.

As Vincent said, "woodworkers tend to be curious."

Even though many may seem to be set in their ways, when no one is watching they might like to try something different.

jtk

[Luke Dupont]

Even though many may seem to be set in their ways, when no one is watching they might like to try something different.

jtk


Haha. I love this quote!　

Most of the fun for me, with any hobby I have, is exploring and learning new things. Sometimes I realize that I could save a lot of time and money by sticking to one method long enough to get really good at it, but then I think "where's the fun in that?" and then continue to pursue some rabbit hole such as figuring out how to make my own chisels or learning how to cut straight all over again with some different variety of saw using different body mechanics.

Such is the luxury of being a hobbyist, as opposed to a "professional," I guess!

[John Stevens]

Thank you for taking an interest in the Sawmill Creek forum. I’m another lurker who would enjoy learning about Chinese woodworking methods. Just the bit you’ve shared about the differences from Japanese woodworking is interesting to me. I began learning woodworking from my stepfather, who had lived in Japan and preferred Japanese saws to Western saws, but did not adopt Japanese methods of woodworking.

[Kees Heiden]

Myanmar, picture I took in 2014.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-31z1BzOCtdI/U_nvoL3AGRI/AAAAAAAABfs/2A_-31JleJk/s1600/5-8%2B1%2B068.JPG

[Derek Cohen]

The high angle planes from HNT Gordon have Chinese Malasian roots.

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/The%20HNT%20Gordon%20Smoother%20and%20Trying%20Pla ne_html_m19bfbb92.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[William Adams]

I would really like to see a discussion and comparison of Chinese, Japanese, Korean, and other woodworking traditions from that part of the world --- indulged myself by buying a matching set of Korean chisels (too matching --- there's one which is so close in size to the ones larger and smaller than it that I'll be gifting it to a cousin), and while they're modest tools (tradesman quality I believe) the steel is sharpening up nicely and they seem to hold an edge, and it will be nice to have something from the mother country, and to have a matching set of chisels --- eventually I may relegate them to rough work when I buy something nicer.

There is a bit about Korean woodworking and tools in the wonderful book Traditional Korean Furniture by Man Sill Pai and Edward Reynolds Wright, though I'd love to learn more. Unfortunately, I wasn't especially interested in woodworking when I went to the Korean Folk Village when I was younger.

[Chao Dong]

looks like Chinese Jack plane, no cap iron type

[steven c newman]

This was made, after following a "how-to" by GE Hong..as was that Jack plane I have..
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Wood is Hard Maple.....scraps I had left over...filed as a crosscut saw..18" blade..

[Chao Dong]

Good for you to try Chinese Frame saw, it need some tricks to make the frame saw works for you (or other word training) but as you are good at it, the speed of cutting could be the fastest among all hand saws(including western and Japanese)

Chinese woodworker usually using work "Bench" as Bench, work hold eight is by stops or body weight.
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[Chao Dong]

I did know HNT, they are expansive .....

[Jessica de Boer]

China and Japan have influenced each other a lot during the centuries but the Chinese people never developed a fascination with steel and ultimate sharpness. Chinese tools seem more utilitarian to me, they are what's needed to get the job done and that's it.

[Chao Dong]

I'm pretty sure that's case by case, if you go to forbidden city those woodwork is top notch not likely down by armature tools. but for most people's home, they don't want to or willing to pay for extra as long as it working.

I saw crappy Japanese tools too, but as they ripped off American using Toyota and Honda, they have enough money to support they local tool maker to make quality tools.

[Vincent Tai]

China and Japan have influenced each other a lot during the centuries but the Chinese people never developed a fascination with steel and ultimate sharpness. Chinese tools seem more utilitarian to me, they are what's needed to get the job done and that's it.

I would hesitate to presume never. There are a lot of Chinese swords, weapons out there enshrined in mythology like in many other cultures. A few historical pieces show great attention to detail and aesthetics in some swords. I would presume the certain very large polarizing events of the last 200 years perhaps particularly in the 20th century would've done a number on the perception of steel and any prestige/fascination it might've once garnered. Particularly with the Great Leap thing that had farmers trying to produce steel on a gargantuan scale; inevitably the steel was of poor quality and much of it useless. The attempts at mass production of steel did literally lead to famine that killed millions. I would take a guess that many people became very disinterested in any sort of steel prestige and fascination and honing slips away when you can't eat, or if the steel you're using is subpar.

(hopefully all of ^ doesn't count as politics)

Fast forward to now, there certainly seems to be a pragmatism to the tools used now by the Chinese. I would guess that this is the result of all the things that happened. No renown or fetishization of Chinese steel. Kind of nice in a way actually. Stan's thread with the stunning carvings comes to mind. I think he said they were using some ground hacksaw blades for the carving or something along the lines of that. I made a marking knife out of a hacksaw for very thin dovetail pins the other day with that story in the back of my head.

I think this video might've been shared on this forum before but I'll put the link up again; its a very nice short watch of a Chinese turner. The very short clip of honing is oddly satisfying. Very straightforward and nice work by someone well into their 80s. I know very little about turning but the tool looks like similar to the hook type thing that the Japanese use. I wonder which culture started that.

https://youtu.be/zfpo3MasyKQ

[Greg Wease]

For example, the plane iron normally is bevel up with 50 degree for a smoother plane and could up to 60 degree
for final finish for rosewood. and cap iron normally is a must.

I'm curious how you would use a cap iron with a bevel up cutting iron. May be a translation issue?

[steven c newman]

Back on track...at least for now?
393751
Traditional Chinese Edge Plane
393752
Slots hold square nuts, that the bolts for the fence attach to..
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My first attempt to make those slots...ended when the first fence split. Second fence came out better.
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iron for this one was an old lathe chisel....used a skew. Cut almost 1" width. had no nicker. One weekend to build. GE Hong said 6 hours?

[Mark Gibney]

Thanks for the video link, I really enjoyed it. And I have actually met the younger man in the video and I got to use a lathe like this in Long Beach, California during the "World Wood Day" celebration in March 2017. It may have been this very lathe.

He was a great guy, he loved introducing people to the lathe and talking about it. Some parts of it are centuries old. Great to see a video of it.

The event in Long Beach was something else. I went every day - and still didn't see everything in depth. There were woodworkers from every continent there.

The event takes place in a different country every year. Here's a link -

http://www.worldwoodday.org/about.php

As far as I know these events are underwritten by a Taiwanese business man whose name escapes me right now and who doesn't seem to have the ego to plaster his name all over the website. I got to meet him, lovely guy. If you get a chance to attend an event you should go.

[Luke Dupont]

Good for you to try Chinese Frame saw, it need some tricks to make the frame saw works for you (or other word training) but as you are good at it, the speed of cutting could be the fastest among all hand saws(including western and Japanese)

Chinese woodworker usually using work "Bench" as Bench, work hold eight is by stops or body weight.
393635393636

Interesting. How high are those benches?

Also, I would like to know more about how to use a Chinese frame saw properly. I made one myself specifically because I wanted a fast cutting saw, but I had trouble making straight and square cuts, especially with the blade at an angle. It was very fast, though!

[Kevin Perez]

I'm definitely interested in learning. My current saws and chisels are a mix of English and Japanese, but all my planes are metal English/US style. I briefly had a wooden ECE smoothing plane, but wasn't very good with it. Woodcraft had several models of wooden Chinese planes for a while, but I don't know if they still have them or if they are decent.

[Chao Dong]

sorry, bevel down ... my mistake

[Chao Dong]

benches high is very people to people, normally is about knee cap height
Xin quansheng the master have a series of how to USE Chinese frame saw in Youtube now, you probably could google it

[Matt Lau]

More pictures would be nice!

As a Chinese guy, I'd like to move more towards Chinese planes.
My mujingfang and HNT gordon planes are my favorites...very comfortable, and great results.
My japanese planes are higher performing, but very finicky.
My western ones perform well, but are heavier and not quite as intuitive.

Do you know a good supplier of Chinese planes?
I only know about Lee Valley and Japanwoodworker.

-Matt

[Matt Lau]

Good for you to try Chinese Frame saw, it need some tricks to make the frame saw works for you (or other word training) but as you are good at it, the speed of cutting could be the fastest among all hand saws(including western and Japanese)

Chinese woodworker usually using work "Bench" as Bench, work hold eight is by stops or body weight.
393635393636

I'm assuming this is in mm?

I was thinking of getting an Ikea bench to use as a Chinese style woodworking bench...but found it too rattly.
I may need to build one.

Do you have any build threads for a Chinese style workbench?

[Tony Wilkins]

I'm assuming this is in mm?

I was thinking of getting an Ikea bench to use as a Chinese style woodworking bench...but found it too rattly.
I may need to build one.

Do you have any build threads for a Chinese style workbench?

If you have Schwarz’ Roman workbench book there are so me pictures in it of Chinese benches iirc. They are apparently similar. And that’s the extent of my knowledge on the subject. I really haven’t seen much info on Chinese woodworking unless it’s in comparison to Japanese and that mention in Schwarz book.

[steven c newman]

On youtube....look up Traditional Chinese Woodworking.....GE Hong....

[Matt Lau]

I've seen the videos before...just my mandarin sucks, and I find him very loud. :P

[steven c newman]

Hmm, turn the sound off, and just read the English closed captions, like I do.

He starts his swing, even before the mortise chisel is in place....and never misses...try that, sometime.

I might, someday, build that marking gauge he uses....has four settings he can use.

[Matt Lau]

Hmm, turn the sound off, and just read the English closed captions, like I do.

He starts his swing, even before the mortise chisel is in place....and never misses...try that, sometime.

I might, someday, build that marking gauge he uses....has four settings he can use.


But that's half the fun?
Besides, I need to work on my mandarin.

The guy's work on the folding bench is particularly impressive.
Sheeesh!