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View Full Version : Toilet Repair - Again and Again.....Help



Dennis Peacock
09-20-2018, 10:25 AM
Ok, I give up. I have a toilet (installed in the house since it was built in 1996) that I have to keep replacing parts in about every 3 to 6 months. It's either the fill valve assembly or the flapper, or the part that goes between the tank and the bowl. In short, I'm very tired of buying cheap parts and living each day dreading the next toilet rebuild.

I've gone as far as ordering a totally brass fill valve assembly with the float ball and that lasted about a year. I've tried all the plastic fill valves and plastic parts for tank rebuilds that I could find locally. You can't tell me that a professional plumber uses these same parts and just keeps charging their customer for a service call every few months to come back and replace the same parts over and over.

I need advice, tips, and pointers....and if there's far better assemblies out there? I want to know. Please!? :)

Lee Schierer
09-20-2018, 11:13 AM
Your situation is out of the norm for sure. I installed a new Kohler toilet in our home about 15 years ago and it has been flawless since then. Can you provide a bit more information on the failure modes? Have you check your water quality to see if it is a water issue? Some water sources are exceptionally hard on plumbing.

Jim Becker
09-20-2018, 11:27 AM
Sometimes it's not the toilet...it's the water. We recently had to install an acid neutralizer because of what our water has been doing to (the remaining) copper pipe as well as things like flappers. I do have one Kohler toilet I'm having trouble with it running with frequency and it's not the flapper which is brand new. I have to dive into that tank further and, perhaps replace something else. Not a cheap hopper, either...it's a one piece installed when our addition went in.

Ted Calver
09-20-2018, 11:29 AM
Dennis, I feel your pain. We have two toilets, I'm sure they were the cheapest the builder could find. The one in the guest bathroom was trouble from the start. The fixture was flawed and I couldn't get a good seal between tank and base. Last year, after about the fifth time it wet the floor, I replaced it with a new Kohler one piece from Home Depot. The one we use most has been repaired at least once a year since our house was built in 2005. Replaced the innards and the gasket between the tank and base just last month with a generic 'one size fits all' kit from Lowe's that seems pretty solid. I've done this so much it's just a 15 minute job, but frustrating all the same. Two weeks after I "fixed" it the missus told me there was water on the floor under the tank and I had to re-tighten the tank/base bolts. I'm patient, but I gave the toilet it's final notice to behave, or else! There have been some great improvements in toilets over the last few years. They are much more efficient, and the flush action is almost scary fast. You might consider getting a new unit and eliminating this particular stress factory from your life.:D

Dennis Peacock
09-20-2018, 11:57 AM
I have 2 toilets in the house....both are a name I've never heard of until I bought this house......SWAN.....Standard height, elongated front, base, and tank w/lid.
The toilet that is towards the other end of the house, master bath toilet is the problem one, I've only had to "touch" twice since we've been in the house (since 2000).
The only toilet I have to keep working on is the one in the master bath.

Michael Weber
09-20-2018, 12:20 PM
I can't remember when I last had trouble with a toilet and can't help with the plumbing issue. I have a friend who is fond of saying "What price do you put on aggravation?" As noted earlier, toilets have improved a lot in the last few years. Recently bought one from the borg for a half bath remodel. Less than 200 bucks, gallon and a half per flush. Having read for years about the woes of low water consumption toilets I was very worried. But it's indeed impressive in its efficiency and speed. It has some kind of "flush engine" in the tank. Wasn't the cheapest but far from the more expensive

Warren Lake
09-20-2018, 12:35 PM
Ive put in Toto Claytons I think it is, they look excellent and have been flawless. Had a connection, price up each time still good. Sure there are lots of others for a quarter of the store cost of them that work well.

Thats funny on the bagpipes Michael, not an instrument I could warm up to even if I tried. My friends father used to play some thing maybe called a Cantor to practice for the big honking goose.

Ken Fitzgerald
09-20-2018, 1:07 PM
Dennis, over the last 36 years we have replaced the toilets in both of our bathrooms with American Standard 1.6 gallon flush Champion 4 "tall height" toilets. Over the years, the one that gets the most use has required some periodic maintenance. I had to replace the fill valve. Most recently it developed a slow leak via the flush valve that would cause intermittent running of the fill valve for just a few seconds. I tried replacing just the silicon valve portion and it helped to reduce the problem but didn't totally eliminate it. Close inspection of the mating surface on the flush valve showed hardwater deposits that I tried to scrub off with a scrubbing pad. That helped reduce the problem even more but didn't fix it. Then I replaced the entire flush valve assembly which fixed it. My take on it was that the hard water deposits on the flush valve seat was the culprit.

I think I'd be suspicious of both the water and the parts.

Bob Glenn
09-20-2018, 3:39 PM
Are you using some of the bowl cleaner inserts that you put into the tank that colors the water and cleans with each flush? That stuff can eat away at those parts you are replacing.

Robert Engel
09-20-2018, 3:58 PM
Sometimes it's not the toilet...it's the water. We recently had to install an acid neutralizer because of what our water has been doing to (the remaining) copper pipe as well as things like flappers. I do have one Kohler toilet I'm having trouble with it running with frequency and it's not the flapper which is brand new. I have to dive into that tank further and, perhaps replace something else. Not a cheap hopper, either...it's a one piece installed when our addition went in.

This is interesting. I've had a couple leaks in the middle of copper pipe the most recent of which destroyed a $12K piece of equipment. Apparently the cause here was the original plumber used AC rate pipe and didn't clean the flux off. Apparently if you don't clean off the flux it can oxidize the pipe (?)

Anyway, my plumber they don't install copper pipe said in our area anymore due to the acidity of the city water supply.

That said, I've not had any issues with the toilets in the building.

Have you replaced the flap seal? I have seen those get eaten away over time.

Dennis Peacock
09-20-2018, 4:53 PM
Are you using some of the bowl cleaner inserts that you put into the tank that colors the water and cleans with each flush? That stuff can eat away at those parts you are replacing.

Nope. Don't use them and never have. I've rebuilt this tank totally, twice since we moved in the house. I'm just getting really tired of spending money and effort on replacing part after part after part after part. :)

Steve Peterson
09-20-2018, 4:56 PM
Are you using some of the bowl cleaner inserts that you put into the tank that colors the water and cleans with each flush? That stuff can eat away at those parts you are replacing.

I don't understand why they sell those things. They destroy flapper valves very quickly.

The other thing is that the replacement flapper values at the big boxes don't appear to be the same quality as the original. You can have a toilet work flawlessly for 10 years. As soon as you replace the flapper, it seems like it needs to be replaced every year. Plumbers must have a source for higher quality parts.

Jim Becker
09-20-2018, 5:05 PM
Then I replaced the entire flush valve assembly which fixed it.

I thing this is what I'm going to need to do with the "offending" hopper myself...I think that the fill valve assembly is got a problem.

Aaron Rosenthal
09-21-2018, 1:39 AM
I'm a "refuse to retire" contractor and lately handyman. There is a solution!
My house was built in '31. Thank the lord, we have soft water here, but I had a unit just like yours 'cause it came with the house. Same constant maintenance.
Took it out. Holus bolts. Straight to the recyclers.
I replaced it with a Toto and I've never looked back.
I don't say use THAT brand necessarily, but get a good unit, and ask the plumbing guys you know which toilets they NEVER have to come and fix.
Buy that one and install/ have it installed, properly.

Marc Jeske
09-21-2018, 3:27 AM
Fluidmaster parts work for years, for me anyway.

And, very inexpensive and widely available.

Marc

michael langman
09-21-2018, 9:18 AM
If I were in your situation I would replace the toilet. They are not that hard to do yourself if you feel inclined. The Toto toilet in our master bath seems like a very good toilet for the price. Others have mentioned them because they are well made.

Dennis Peacock
09-21-2018, 10:24 AM
Fluidmaster parts work for years, for me anyway.

And, very inexpensive and widely available.

Marc

I replace Fluidmaster about every 6 months. So, not an option for me.

Perry Hilbert Jr
09-21-2018, 10:47 AM
Toilet tanks & valves seem to be the most mysterious parts of the house. Had one that drove me nuts. replaced valves etc. Finally had a list of things for a plumber to do and it was one of them. Took him about three minutes. He cut something with his pocket knife and the thing has been flawless for a year. He never even took the thing apart. The piece of plastic he cut off looked like a sliver of a black. It makes no sense to me. Toilet tanks and valves look like they should be easy to comprehend. They are not. They are evidence that there are supernatural beings in there, whose great desire is that sound of running water.

Phil Mueller
09-22-2018, 8:35 PM
I know this isn’t the solution you’re looking for, but I’ve all but given up on plumbing issues in the house. Too many trips to the BORG for parts, too many leaks, too many tight spaces to try to work in. I’ve found a plumbing company that is prompt, reasonably priced, and just gets the job done right. I just spent $120 to have a toilet on/off valve and all new stuff in the tank replaced. I’d do it again in a minute.

Jim Koepke
09-23-2018, 3:31 PM
I replace Fluidmaster about every 6 months. So, not an option for me.

When you replace a part is the previous part inspected for signs of reasons it failed?

You may have a supply line or valve that is the source of the problem. It might be your water is hard as others have suggested. My previous home had iron pipe. There were constant problems with the plumbing. Currently my home uses plastic pipe. Even with a high iron content in the well water there have only been two plumbing problems in the past ten years if you don't count the water heater having an element go bad.

Are you on a well or a municipal water supply?

jtk

Dennis Peacock
09-23-2018, 4:12 PM
When you replace a part is the previous part inspected for signs of reasons it failed?

You may have a supply line or valve that is the source of the problem. It might be your water is hard as others have suggested. My previous home had iron pipe. There were constant problems with the plumbing. Currently my home uses plastic pipe. Even with a high iron content in the well water there have only been two plumbing problems in the past ten years if you don't count the water heater having an element go bad.

Are you on a well or a municipal water supply?

jtk

Jim,
I'm on municipal water and I've been told by several people that we have some of the best water in the state. Our water supply is from a local lake, treated, filtered, and then severed out of the local areas. I think it's just strange that my hallway bathroom doesn't have the same problem as the master bath and I have 2 young men (my youngest sons) that live here with us and that's their bathroom. I have had to replace faucet valves springs and seals at least once since we've lived here (since March 2000). Both toilets are "Crane" toilets, standard height, elongated front, 2-piece toilets.

Peter Christensen
09-23-2018, 8:58 PM
I put Caroma toilets (Australian design) in the last house and they were great until I moved here. I suppose they are still going strong. Put the same in this house when we built it. Never had a moment of trouble with any.

Jim Koepke
09-23-2018, 9:43 PM
I think it's just strange that my hallway bathroom doesn't have the same problem as the master bath and I have 2 young men (my youngest sons) that live here with us and that's their bathroom. I have had to replace faucet valves springs and seals at least once since we've lived here (since March 2000).

This makes me wonder about things such as is the hall bathroom closer to the supply line?

Are the service valves for the two toilets the same?

Asking again, were the failing parts inspected to see if any cause of failure could be determined. In my previous house the parts often had small bits of rust embedded. That meant either replacing all the plumbing or getting used to repairing the faucets and plumbing.

One time my problem was caused by the line between the service valve and the tank. It was a flexible line and the material inside was breaking down and messing with the toilet's fill valve.

My experience with cock and ball valves is that they should not be used. The newer ones that are available in the big box stores seem to work fine and do not have metal parts to react with water borne contaminants.

jtk

Bill Orbine
09-26-2018, 10:22 PM
I had more success with parts from plumbing suppliers than from the Borg. Where are you getting your parts?