Bandsaw ... worth the effort?

[Lisa Starr]

Well, for better or worse, I'm now the owner of a 1950's Atlas 14" Bandsaw. Tools are not in the budget at the moment, but since the price seemed right and I don't have a bandsaw, purchased it. The paint appears to be original and it seems to be intact, unless there is supposed to be a fence system. It needs a motor, which I have. If I choose to put this in my shop, I'll put new wheel bearings and tires on it. Since I only paid $30.00 for it, would this be a reasonable expediture? TIA

[Mike Cutler]

To me, yes it's worth the effort.
If a person has the ability to do the bulk of the restoration themselves, a lot of money can be saved, and a nice vintage machine can be returned to service. If all you need to do it punch out some bearings and replace tires, that's easy and relatively imexpemsive.

[Lisa Starr]

Yes, Mike, I'll absolutely do any restoration work myself. I have or have access to any tools I'll need. Even if something turns out to be badly worn, I work in a machine shop and can make replacement parts, if need be.

[Van Huskey]

Are you sure it is a 14"? I have never seen a Atlas 14" only the 10" and the model 912 12" which has the same look as a Delta cast 14" saw.

[Bob Vaughan]

The 912 was my suspicion also. If it is a 912, it can be made into one of the best 12" saws ever made if not the best. Its way overbuilt for a saw of that size.

Go to OWWM.org and put in the search box: Atlas 912

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[Frederick Skelly]

Yes. It is worth doing!

[Lisa Starr]

Yes, when I got home to today, I took another look at the saw. It is indeed a 912, so not a 14" saw after all.
So are there modifications I should consider to make it "one of the best 12" saws ever made"? Or is it just a good saw in the first place. Apparently, if it is truly in working order, I got a good saw.

[Van Huskey]

Yes, when I got home to today, I took another look at the saw. It is indeed a 912, so not a 14" saw after all.
So are there modifications I should consider to make it "one of the best 12" saws ever made"? Or is it just a good saw in the first place. Apparently, if it is truly in working order, I got a good saw.

I generally wouldn't change anything that didn't need to be changed. If you are doing a full restoration, easy with that saw, I would replace the wheel bearings, tires, guide blocks and thrust bearings. The guide blocks are the same as a Delta 14" saw (1/2" blocks with the one angled one), you could simply dress the originals (oilite bronze) or replace them with Coolbocks, ceramic from Spaceage or an oily or oil soak hardwood.

They are neat little saws and the trunnion design is stronger than on the bigger Deltas.

[Dave Zellers]

Are you sure it is a 14"? I have never seen a Atlas 14" only the 10" and the model 912 12" which has the same look as a Delta cast 14" saw.

Yes, when I got home to today, I took another look at the saw. It is indeed a 912, so not a 14" saw after all.

Another notch in the 'ole bandsaw tire for Van. And Bob V as well. Man, you guys are good!

[Bob Vaughan]

I immediately trashed the bronze side guides and made some out of 1/2" HSS tool bits. They'll last far longer. Phule blocks or any other non ferrous side guide blocks are a waste of time. They wear far too fast. Yes, the other blocks are far more forgiving if you're a total klutz in setting up a bandsaw correctly, but I don't sense that is the case here. The angled block isn't 3/8" x 1/2" like the Delta blocks. It is a full 1/2" x 1/2". If you want to experiment with other materials, just cut some 1/2" square hard wood and try that.

That USA-made saw was as heavily built as the USA-made Delta 14" saws of that era, and light years better than the Asian import stuff made today. The saw I pictured was rebuilt in 2004 and it is still running today with no problems.

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[Dave Zellers]

If you want to experiment with other materials, just cut some 1/2" square hard wood and try that.

Interesting that you would say that! That is exactly what I have done with both of my Delta 14" bandsaws. I thought what I used was lignum vitae but now I believe it is actually Greenheart. Either way, it's crazy hard and seems to work very well.

[Van Huskey]

I immediately trashed the bronze side guides and made some out of 1/2" HSS tool bits. They'll last far longer. Phule blocks or any other non ferrous side guide blocks are a waste of time. They wear far too fast. Yes, the other blocks are far more forgiving if you're a total klutz in setting up a bandsaw correctly, but I don't sense that is the case here. The angled block isn't 3/8" x 1/2" like the Delta blocks. It is a full 1/2" x 1/2". If you want to experiment with other materials, just cut some 1/2" square hard wood and try that.




I am going to have to disagree with you on the guide material. Low tension + small blades = softer guides. The reason the softer than steel guides are wise here is the increased chance of contact with the teeth, even set up properly. While I am beginning to think different alloys of bearing bronze are the absolute best choice for bandsaws using small blades the original bronze guides are pretty darn good and an average user shouldn't need to dress them more than maybe once a year.

In the end, each guide material for block guides has its pros and cons and in a perfect work one would have at least 2 materials to switch between.

[Dave Zellers]

in a perfect work.
Perfect world, I'm going to assume?

My perfect world would be to have this thread continue...

Which would be best- seriously hard wood guides or brass guides?

Seems like hardwood guides would be more gentle on a blade than metal guides.

With my wood guides, I push them right up tight to the blade when I re-set them. Is that bad?

Oh crap. Upon re-reading I see that Van already answered that each has its pros and cons. I need to slow down.

[Mike Cutler]

I work in a machine shop and can make replacement parts, if need be.

It's definitely a "go" for you.
Your skill set, and access to a machine shop, are a huge benefit. I see a lot of "vintage iron" in your future.;)

[Bob Vaughan]

Side guide material choice is a petty issue when someone is attempting to restore a used band saw. There are details that are a whole lot more important to satisfactory bad saw performance. The sample used machine I had was given to me along with several other machines that had been slated for the scrap heap. It seems that restoration for use again had too much of an 'icky-poo' factor to the owner.

The 912 I got had lots of issues that needed addressing. The switch, cord and motor were horrible. The stand was a cobbled together wood make-do mess. There was lots of rust that had to be removed. After 50 years of use, the tires were worn out and the bearings needed replacement.

The good news is that the 912 used regular bearings rather than the much more expensive felt seal type that the usual 14" Delta saws had. IIRC the bottom bearings were 6204 size and the top wheel and guide back up bearings were 6202 size, but that needs to be verified since my saw isn't with me now.

The tires on my saw would actually work to a minor degree since they were glued on but they were cracked and the crown worn away. I had to scrape them off with a chisel and clean the wheel rims before I could glue on a new set of rubber tires. Once installed, the new tires were then recrowned to remove those little bumps that always occur with new tires.

I put on a good 1/2 HP motor, installed a new switch and cord using a 20 amp rated switch. A metal stand was found and and adapted to have the motor mounted under the saw to reduce the footprint. A wood dust chute keeps the dust off the motor.

After 50 or so years of use and abuse, no two machines will be in the same condition so it will vary as to what actually needs to be done. On used band saws, figuring tires, tire crowning and bearings should be a given.

A band saw of the quality level of a 912 is well worth the effort.

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[Julie Moriarty]

Sounds like a cool project, Lisa. And with you working in a machine shop, that should make things easier. Let us know how it goes.

[Lisa Starr]

It is a go! I wired the motor I already had to a switch and mounted everything last evening. Bearings in wheels seem good, but I went ahead and ordered wheel bearings, thrust bearings and tires this morning. I'll pickup a v-belt on my way home tonight.
There seems to be minimal need for cleaning, and no rust, so I'll remove the wheels from the machine tonight and get the old bearings pressed out. I'll also get the thrust bearings off and take a look see at the guide blocks.
Thanks for your encouragement.

[David Eisenhauer]

Something is amiss here - it's not supposed to go this quick and easy. Either that, or you are way more skilled at this than I am (which would not take much skill at all). Ride it like you stole it Lisa.

[Bob Vaughan]

I'd love to see a photo of the finished project.
David is right about you being lucky for things going so smoothly.
There's an alignment hole at the split in the table. That hole is for a standard taper pin IIRC. Maybe its a #5 or #6 taper pin that can be found in most hardware stores.

[Lisa Starr]

Bob - I purchased this saw in the "assembled" state.

Everyone - Is there a reason to remove the table? I blew out and lubricated the trunnions last evening and the table moves freely. The table checks flat with a straight edge, so I can't see a reason to remove it. I'll check for the taper pin when I get home and make sure it is there. I'm also bringing home a height gage and indicator to allow a closer check of the table flatness. I did see that the table insert is pretty banged up, so I'll look into removing and replacing it. The existing one seems to be made of Aluminum, any thoughts on an appropriate replacement material?

[Mike Kees]

ALuminun,plastic,plywood all would work. Whatever you are capable of making it from. Nice saw ,Mike.

[Nick Decker]

Lisa, if the insert isn't sticking up so as to interfere with table flatness, I probably wouldn't worry about it unless you just want things looking nice (I would).

If you get into a situation where zero clearance with the blade is important, you can always just run a piece of plywood to where the blade is centered and stop. Clamp the plywood in place and you have a flat-surfaced table and zero clearance.

[Lisa Starr]

Here are "as purchased" photos, except I had already mounted the power switch before I thought to take the pics.

[Lisa Starr]

1) I tried searching the S/N online to determine the age of the machine, but so far, have come up empty handed. The S/N is 12141.

2) The 1/4"-20 x 1/2" HH Bolt and washer that hold the lower wheel on are missing. I'll just machine a replacement washer that matches the upper one.

3) The blocks appear to be bronze of some type and have been reversed at some point. I can just load them in a vise on a Bridgeport and mill a bit off to square them up. I'll have to determine the angle to mill the 4th one, but that is very easily done. Would I be better off just to purchase some Cool Blocks?

4) There is a tapped hole in the front of the table at the slot. What is the purpose, as there is nothing there now?

5) I checked the table and it is flat within about .003", except at the outside edges which taper off. There are some pretty heft Blanchard Grinding marks in the table on those edges that appear original. I expect I'll just give it a quick polishing up thru 2000 grit and call it done.

[Van Huskey]

1) I tried searching the S/N online to determine the age of the machine, but so far, have come up empty handed. The S/N is 12141.

2) The 1/4"-20 x 1/2" HH Bolt and washer that hold the lower wheel on are missing. I'll just machine a replacement washer that matches the upper one.

3) The blocks appear to be bronze of some type and have been reversed at some point. I can just load them in a vise on a Bridgeport and mill a bit off to square them up. I'll have to determine the angle to mill the 4th one, but that is very easily done. Would I be better off just to purchase some Cool Blocks?

4) There is a tapped hole in the front of the table at the slot. What is the purpose, as there is nothing there now?

5) I checked the table and it is flat within about .003", except at the outside edges which taper off. There are some pretty heft Blanchard Grinding marks in the table on those edges that appear original. I expect I'll just give it a quick polishing up thru 2000 grit and call it done.

1. probably early 50s but I haven't ever seen any good S/N dating for Atlas Press machines

3. I would personally use the bronze unless you plan to use smaller than 1/4" blades regularly.

4. The blade "slot"? If so that is for the table leveling pin but they normally aren't tapped but may be one the 912

5. that's a good plan

[Lisa Starr]

Thank you Van. I think I understand the table leveling now. I was looking for something under the table in the casting webs, but found naught. I'll determine the tap size and try the appropriate bolt. Here's a photo of what I'm talking about.
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On another note, my new tires just arrived via the brown truck and it makes me question my need for new ones. The tires on the wheels now appear very similar. Blue, slightly crowned and some writing on the wear surface still visible. Since the person I purchased the machine from knew nothing about any of the equipment in the shop, I'm suspicious the machine was more maintained than she was aware of. I've already decided not to install any of the new bearings I purchased, as all of the ones on the machine seem fine. I think I'll just keep everything I've purchased for "when I need them" and at least try the machine "as is" once I dress the blocks and adjust everything. It came with 2 brand new blades (1/2" wide, 10 TPI). I'll install one of those for the initial test cuts and then change out any parts that seem problematic.

More and more, I'm feeling quite guilty for making such a low-ball offer for this machine. It is apparently a much better machine than I realized at the time.

[Bob Vaughan]

1) I tried searching the S/N online to determine the age of the machine, but so far, have come up empty handed. The S/N is 12141.

2) The 1/4"-20 x 1/2" HH Bolt and washer that hold the lower wheel on are missing. I'll just machine a replacement washer that matches the upper one.

3) The blocks appear to be bronze of some type and have been reversed at some point. I can just load them in a vise on a Bridgeport and mill a bit off to square them up. I'll have to determine the angle to mill the 4th one, but that is very easily done. Would I be better off just to purchase some Cool Blocks?

4) There is a tapped hole in the front of the table at the slot. What is the purpose, as there is nothing there now?

5) I checked the table and it is flat within about .003", except at the outside edges which taper off. There are some pretty heft Blanchard Grinding marks in the table on those edges that appear original. I expect I'll just give it a quick polishing up thru 2000 grit and call it done.

3. That angle is a simple 45º, but I suspect you've figured that out by now. Van has good advice on keeping the original blocks. If the setscrews have dug a crater, rotate them until there's a new smooth surface.

4. when the table was made, the last detail was to cut the blade insertion slot. Sometimes this relieved stresses that caused the table sides to get a little out of flat. The makers would drill the hole and usually taper ream it before making the final cut. That way, if the table did shear a little, inserting the taper pin would put things back where they started. I zoomed in on a photo I had of the finished saw I did. It sure looks like the head of a cap screw there. Probably 5/16-18 thread. Try that.

5. Band saw tables need to be somewhat flat. Sounds like your table is just fine for the work a band saw would be doing.

[Doug Garson]

1/2" by 10 tpi doesn't sound like a blade for wood, sounds more like a metal cutting blade, should be more like 3 or 4 tpi for resawing wood, check out Van's sticky post on bandsaw blades. (or wait for Van to comment).

[Van Huskey]

1/2" by 10 tpi doesn't sound like a blade for wood, sounds more like a metal cutting blade, should be more like 3 or 4 tpi for resawing wood, check out Van's sticky post on bandsaw blades. (or wait for Van to comment).

I was going to mention that but forgot to. Once it is up and running it will be time to consider the blade question. On small saws I think a general purpose 1/4" 6TPI carbon blade is hard to beat for versatility and would be my choice if I didn't have specific cuts in mind. It works down to 5/8-3/4" radius curves and down to 1/2" material. If the OP has a more specific use planned then there are likely better blades for the task.

[Lisa Starr]

Thank you everyone for your input so far. After spending quite a bit of time in the shop yesterday, I have the tool clean and re-assembled. For testing purposes, I loaded one of 10 TPI blades and it is running in the center of the wheels. I resurfaced the bronze guides and have them adjusted per the "paper clearance" recommendations. Also, I have them adjusted to ride approx. 1/16" behind the tooth gullet. That may need to be adjusted when I get the correct blades.

My next steps are to acquire a different pulley for the motor, as the manual states a 2-1/2" motor pulley was supplied with the machine, but the one from the dead motor was 3". That should correct the blade speed to the recommended 2050 SFM.

I was digesting the sticky post on bandsaw blades a few minutes ago and will be trying to decide where to purchase those later today.

I'll post photos once those last details are buttoned up.

[Ronald Blue]

Here's an often good choice for pulleys and related power transmission products. They don't list a taper lock pulley small enough to help but here is a link for a 2.45 OD pulley with a 5/8" bore.

surpluscenter.com/Pulleys/Finished-Bore-Pulleys/

[Van Huskey]

My next steps are to acquire a different pulley for the motor, as the manual states a 2-1/2" motor pulley was supplied with the machine, but the one from the dead motor was 3". That should correct the blade speed to the recommended 2050 SFM.

I was digesting the sticky post on bandsaw blades a few minutes ago and will be trying to decide where to purchase those later today.

I'll post photos once those last details are buttoned up.

I wouldn't worry about the motor pulley being slightly larger, 2000 fpm is on the low side for wood so a bump of 400 fpm would not be a bad thing as it is still not spinning the wheels too fast.

I often wonder if I cause more confusion than I clear up with the bandsaw blade thread. What type of cuts do you plan to do? Mostly contour (curve) cutting?

[Lisa Starr]

Van - since I didn't even have a bandsaw on my radar until this one fell into my lap, I'm not sure what exactly I'll do with it. I imagine contour cuts for now. Once I finally finish our interior trim I'd like to move into building furniture, but that is a long way off. Since I insist on doing things the hard way, everything takes longer. You know, don't buy the backband for the window casings, make it. Don't have a reclaimed door the correct width for a opening? Remove the wedges and disassemble one that is too wide. Adjust the tenons and re-assemble.

I ordered a 1/4", 6 TPI, blade today for a starter.

Thank you for all your help thru this project.

[Van Huskey]

The 1/4" 6TPI will do the vast majority of cuts one would do on that sized saw. The main exception would be cutting stock thinner than 1/2" since you want a minimum of three teeth in the material at all times.

[Lisa Starr]

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Well here it is cleaned up and re-assembled. All I need is the blade I ordered on Sunday to arrive and I'll officially have a bandsaw in my workshop. Not bad for $100 total expediture. Thanks for all that offered help and opinions along the way.

[Bob Vaughan]

A 3" pulley diameter is about all a v-belt likes to bend around. A smaller diameter invites belt rumble that translates up through the machine. While that observation is true, I have many machines that have a 2-1/2" diameter pulley and I just live with the rumble. Most times it isn't that bad, but with a 3450 rpm motor, its clearly there. If you're faced with replacing both pulleys, then you can do the math and get a bigger driven pulley or just live with the increased speed. Clearly that band saw is capable of handling more SFM than a paltry 2100.

[Jayson B. Williams]

Lisa, I am new here to the site, here is a present for your 1950 Atlas 912 Band Saw.

1950 Atlas 12" Band Saw 912 Manual
http://www.vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=726

1950-1951 Atlas Wood Working Tools Catalog

http://www.vintagemachinery.org/pubs/51/18231.pdf

Good job on what you done so far on your Band Saw.

Jayson




1) I tried searching the S/N online to determine the age of the machine, but so far, have come up empty handed. The S/N is 12141.

2) The 1/4"-20 x 1/2" HH Bolt and washer that hold the lower wheel on are missing. I'll just machine a replacement washer that matches the upper one.

3) The blocks appear to be bronze of some type and have been reversed at some point. I can just load them in a vise on a Bridgeport and mill a bit off to square them up. I'll have to determine the angle to mill the 4th one, but that is very easily done. Would I be better off just to purchase some Cool Blocks?

4) There is a tapped hole in the front of the table at the slot. What is the purpose, as there is nothing there now?

5) I checked the table and it is flat within about .003", except at the outside edges which taper off. There are some pretty heft Blanchard Grinding marks in the table on those edges that appear original. I expect I'll just give it a quick polishing up thru 2000 grit and call it done.