Hand plane purely for extra joy

[Dominik Dudkiewicz]

Hi guys,


I'm in the very fortunate position that I have some spare cash burning a hole in my pocket and am going to add another Lie Nielsen hand plane to my collection. I don't "need" anything, I just "want" another one - but at the same time I'm hoping I find it a useful, and frequently used, addition to my existing planes and add to my overall enjoyment of woodworking. This isn't a problem thread, I am not agonizing over it, and I know there is no right or wrong answer and I'll likely be equally happy whatever I choose, but I feel like talking tools and nobody within talking distance is listening or knows a thing about woodworking! So please forgive me this indulgence.


I'm thinking either a bronze #3, a 4 1/2, or a #5 and keep changing my mind between the three. All different horses for different courses of course :). So do you have a preference / one that you just love using for whatever reason - either from a capability perspective or just joy in use perspective? I think my #4, LV BUS and LV BU Jack already cover the functional aspects in this range, I just want something that makes me want to reach for it over these planes, even if only at times and puts a smile on my face when I do. Since starting to use bevel down planes I prefer them in use to the bevel up stuff, which is why I have the #5 in mind despite having the BU Jack and I'm also thinking I can learn a bit by swapping my #4 50deg frog for a 45deg frog from the #5 to see for myself via back-to-back comparison whether a close-set chipbreaker is actually preferable in use with a lower angle frog than a higher angle, even on highly figured timber - so that aspect excites me. I also prefer the feel of the narrower 10 1/4 so think I'd prefer a #5 to the wider LV BUJ. Then I'm excited by just owning and trying a #3 for it's extra nibbleness and slightly lighter weight, yet, on the other hand flip-flop to being attracted by the brute size, weight and width of the #4.5 which on paper at least seems like it should be better suited to smoothing larger panels. So many options - and none of them bad :) .

Obviously any recommendations are dependent on what I've already got and what I want to make. Well, I make, and will make, pretty much everything and also have power tools / machinery to do the heavy lifting most of the time. At the moment I'm making a timber-frame post and beam garage and have been using the 10 1/4, block rabbet and #4 a lot, and next projects include a Roubo workbench, dining table, king-size bed-frame, handing tool-cabinet with drawers etc and a coffee table, along with some smaller boxes etc in between. I use mainly very hard and difficult/tear-out prone timbers. My current bench planes are listed below (I have joinery-planes well sorted and don't need or want any more). I don't think I have any real gaps that "need" to be filled from a functional perspective. Like I said, I just want to buy another plane and want something that makes me go "wow that's different/impressive/more useful than I expected". Which of the three planes (#3, 4.5, 5) would/does add most joy/fun or even just frequent utility to your woodworking and why?

LN Block Rabbet
Veritas dx60 block
LN #4 bronze
Veritas BU Smoother
Veritas BU Jack
LN 10 1/4 Jack Rabbet
Veritas BU Jointer
LN #8
Veritas Shooting plane

Sorry for the ramble; like I said, I think I'm just thirsty for a bit of discussion.


Cheers,

Dom

[Frederick Skelly]

I build smaller stuff and use my #3 a lot. I seldom use my 4 1/2 - it's just too darn wide. I use my 5 occasionally. But that's just me.

I wouldnt say my #3 "adds joy or fun" - my LV Shooter adds joy/fun - but it's a really good size/weight for the things I build.

Fred

[David Myers]

I like my Stanley #3; it's quicker than larger smoothers.

[Gary Cunningham]

I had the LN 4 1/2. Try as I might I could not get happy with it. Sold it & put the $$$ towards a band saw.

I would like to get a bronze #4, but can’t justify it.

Have you considered the LN 62?

[Mark Rainey]

I have a Clifton #3 smoother & it is a beauty. Sometimes there is an o so subtle dip in a board & the #3 will get to it like no other plane.

[Dave Parkis]

I have the LN 4 1/2 and love it. I also got the 50 degree frog and that is really nice.

[Nathan Johnson]

The #3 would be more different than the others as compared to the current stable.

[steven c newman]

Maybe read one of my build blogs...and see which plane I use the most.....just saying...

[John Schtrumpf]

Maybe read one of my build blogs...and see which plane I use the most.....just saying...
:confused: I tried viewing your blogs and got: "steven c newman has no blog entries to display."

[steven c newman]

Have one I just posted on today....They are not that hard to find...more of a Build Thread than a Blog...Something about a new stash of lumber?

[Dominik Dudkiewicz]

Thanks guys. Sounds like the No.3 is generally a well liked and used plane and I think that's the one I'm likely to order on Monday. The #4 1/2 seems to be very polarizing; some people don't like them at all and others love them - which is part of the attraction to try one.

Gary, I haven't considered the LN #62. I have the Veritas Low Angle Jack and whilst I don't mind it I don't find myself reaching for it very often. I think it's just a bit too big and I also find myself gravitating towards bevel down planes since I got my hands on some. It seems that the Lie Nielsen is a little shorter, much narrower and a substantially lighter than the Veritas Bevel up Jack so I'd probably prefer it to the Veritas, but I don't want to buy another bevel up Jack at this stage.

Steve, I'll take a look at your blogs. Is there one particular plane that you use all the time and it's that obvious in your blogs? Which one is it?

Cheers,

Dom

[steven c newman]

Lets see...current build thread:
Stanley No. 3c, type 11/12
Millers falls No. 14, Type 2
WoodRiver No. 62
Stanley No. 8, type 7
Stanley No. 7, Type 9
Ohio Tool Co. No. 0-7
Stanley No. 60-1/2
Wards ( Stanley) No. 78

Will be getting out the Stanley No.45, Type 20 when I start building a drawer for the project.

[Dominik Dudkiewicz]

Lets see...current build thread:
Stanley No. 3c, type 11/12
Millers falls No. 14, Type 2
WoodRiver No. 62
Stanley No. 8, type 7
Stanley No. 7, Type 9
Ohio Tool Co. No. 0-7
Stanley No. 60-1/2
Wards ( Stanley) No. 78

Will be getting out the Stanley No.45, Type 20 when I start building a drawer for the project.

So you are a No.3 guy then I guess. And I assume the No.14 is equivalent to a #5? So if you had to lose one of those two, which one couldn't you be without?

It's good to see that owning too many hand planes isn't a frowned-upon condition. When buying the last one I always assume that'll be the last one, and then next minute I've got my hands on another. Ever since getting far more into hand tools I am yet to regret the purchase of any hand tool so far though.

The rest of my joinery planes at the moment are listed below. I certainly have no desire to invest any more in that area for the time being.

Veritas Medium Shoulder
Veritas Large Shoulder
Veritas Shooting plane
Veritas Skew Rabbet RH
Veritas Skew Rabbet LH
Veritas Small Plow
Veritas Large Router
LN 1/2" Tongue and Groove
LN 3/4" Tongue and Groove
HNT Gordon 1/4" Dado
HNT Gordon 1/2" Dado
HNT Set of Gidgee Hollows and Rounds
HNT Side-Rabbet Pair
HNT Side-Rounds Pair
HNT Snipe-Bills Pair
HNT Radius Plane

Cheers,

Dom

[steven c newman]

I tend to size the planes according to the job being being done.....
393250393251
Afraid these are my joinery planes

[Jim Koepke]

The #3 is a good size for a smoother when working on smaller things or when you want a lighter plane. One of my #3s always makes me feel good to use. It is my first plane to produce a shaving thinner than 0.001".

The #4-1/2 is my favored plane when working on a piece right at 2" or a little bigger. Sometimes it gets used on large panels. This was my most difficult plane to get to work to my liking. That is likely mostly my fault. Even though it works fine now it usually isn't the first choice. The wider blade is easy to push in a large plane, but it makes the #4 on steroids a bit harder to push.

The #5 is a very useful and versatile size. There are four of them in my shop. They are also about the most common size plane to find used. All my #5s together have set me back less than $70. One nice thing about them being common and obtainable is they can be set up to perform different tasks such as a scrub plane or a short jointer. Of course if you are set on only having LN & LV planes that could get expensive.

It might help if you know someone who has all of these for you to handle and see how you like them.

jtk

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Dominik

If it helps, my two go-to smoothers are a bronze LN #3 (with 45 degree frog) and a Veritas Custom #4 (42 degree frog). They are both fine performers and both a joy to use.

I do have a bronze LN #4 1/2 (anniversary model), which has the original 50 degree frog replaced with a 45 degree frog. It is seldom used - gets pulled out for larger panels. It is a great plane to use in the ideal circumstances, but does not approach the others for "joy".

A little tool porn :)

https://s19.postimg.cc/8vdbzg1pf/1_zpsaqb2z27j.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Dominik Dudkiewicz]

Thanks Jim and Derek,So it seems like I'll enjoy owning a No.3. It's been on my wish-list for a while but when I was about to place an order I started considering the others. Sounds like the 4 1/2 will wait. I do still want a #5. I have a spare blade for my #4 that I could put a radius on to serve when I need to use the plane as a scrub (although then a second chipbreaker would also be handy... then another body...haha).That is some very nice tool porn Derek :). I think I will stick with LN for now. I actually really like the old Stanleys (the idea of) but have never found one in good shape and don't want to buy from photos online.Cheers, Dom

[Kees Heiden]

I would be very happy to use my Stanley #3 a lot more instead of the #4, but it is the only one in my collection with a right hand thread adjuster which is a bit of a pain.

[Phil Mueller]

My vintage Stanley 5 is my most go to plane...probably because it’s just set up so well it’s always a joy to use. My 3 is rarely used, however, to be fair, it is a vintage model from my Dad, and while I’ve fettled it some, I need to work on it more. It’s more of a memory than a user at the moment. Once set up right, I can see where it would be quite useful for some of my smaller projects.

[steven c newman]

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From a little Step Stool Project....a Stanley No. 3c, type 11/12 was the only plane used...as a Jointer..
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And, as a smoother. Iron is a replacement one..a Stanley SW model iron.
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For the Pine Stepback Cupboard build....jointers were a bit bigger..
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But, to make a raised panel for a door...
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A No. 4 and a No. 4c were used. At least across the end grain...long grain was with the No.14
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I fit the size of the plane used, to the job being done.

[John Gornall]

Don't have a place on my wall for my Clifton 3 as it stays on the bench - use it all the time. It's a joy jn British Racing Green, polished body edges, Bubinga tote and knob. And it's just a little longer with more comfortable handle than my LN 3.

[chris carter]

Just for something completely different.... when I think "extra joy" I think of one of my wooden bench planes I made. Maybe it's because I made them myself that makes them more joyous. Or maybe it's because I made them to fit my hands and that extra comfort makes them more joyous. Or maybe I just prefer the weight and lack of any friction with woodies in general. But if I want a plane for extra joy, that's definitely where I would go as opposed to a manufactured plane. So if I had money burning a hole in my pocket, I would make a wooden plane and blow that money on some insane wood to take it to a ridiculous level. Like to a level where when someone comes into my shop, that's the one tool their eyes settle on every single time.

[Julie Moriarty]

I bought the bronze LN #3 a few years ago. I love using it. Might even call it a fun plane.

[Prashun Patel]

LN #4 bronze
Veritas BU Jointer
Veritas Shooting plane

I own all three of these and I love them madly.

The LN#4 bronze is just perfect in heft. Not too heavy, not too light.
The Veritas BU jointer has a lower center of gravity than the BD counterparts. This makes it IMHO extremely comfortable to push. I love the feel

Veritas Shooting plane: Given that you have the other bases covered then I vote for this one. A shooting plane is perceived as a luxury, but once you have one, I'd wager you'd wonder why you'd WANT to work without one. Vis-a-vis a regular plane used on its side, this plane has great mass, is ergonomic, has a blade that comes in and out very easily - and in a predictable position. It's like using a deli slicer. Of course, owning one means you'd need to design or buy a good shooting fence/track/board.

[Tony Wilkins]

How about an Old Street tools smoother or Jack?

[Bruce Haugen]

The best smoother I have is one I made from a St James Bay kit. It’s wonderful. The plane I grab a lot is my DX60. It looks a lot like a block plane, but it’s really a little smoother.

[Charles Bjorgen]

Next time we meet, Bruce, I need to try out that plane. I still have your pictures of it in my Photos app.

[Dominik Dudkiewicz]

LN #4 bronze
Veritas BU Jointer
Veritas Shooting plane

I own all three of these and I love them madly.

The LN#4 bronze is just perfect in heft. Not too heavy, not too light.
The Veritas BU jointer has a lower center of gravity than the BD counterparts. This makes it IMHO extremely comfortable to push. I love the feel

Veritas Shooting plane: Given that you have the other bases covered then I vote for this one.



Thanks mate, I agree that the Veritas shooting plane is great - which is why I already have one! :)

Cheers, Dom

[Dominik Dudkiewicz]

Just for something completely different.... when I think "extra joy" I think of one of my wooden bench planes I made. Maybe it's because I made them myself that makes them more joyous. Or maybe it's because I made them to fit my hands and that extra comfort makes them more joyous. Or maybe I just prefer the weight and lack of any friction with woodies in general. But if I want a plane for extra joy, that's definitely where I would go as opposed to a manufactured plane. So if I had money burning a hole in my pocket, I would make a wooden plane and blow that money on some insane wood to take it to a ridiculous level. Like to a level where when someone comes into my shop, that's the one tool their eyes settle on every single time.


Hi Chris,

Making my own plane sounds like a great idea, and is something I've thought about doing, I just haven't made the time to do so yet. Definitely on the cards at some stage soon - regardless of whether or not I but another LN.

Cheers,

Dom

[Dominik Dudkiewicz]

How about an Old Street tools smoother or Jack?

Hi Tony, haven't heard of them before but after taking a look they just don't get me excited tbh. If i were going to buy a wood body smoother or jack it would be one of Terry's of HNT Gordon. But I think I'd rather like to make my own.

Cheers, Dom

[Bruce Haugen]

Next time we meet, Bruce, I need to try out that plane. I still have your pictures of it in my Photos app.

Maybe we could have lunch someplace with a wooden table so we could try it out there. Not sure the restaurant would like it, though :eek:

[Bruce Haugen]

Hi Tony, haven't heard of them before but after taking a look they just don't get me excited tbh. If i were going to buy a wood body smoother or jack it would be one of Terry's of HNT Gordon. But I think I'd rather like to make my own.

Cheers, Dom

Old Street used to be known as Clark and Williams. They are about as good a woodie as you can find.

[steven c newman]

Random plane shot, from today..
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[Frederick Skelly]

How you likin' that brand new Veritas plane Steve?

[steven c newman]

That be a WoodRiver No. 62.....been putting it to work...

[Jim Koepke]

I would be very happy to use my Stanley #3 a lot more instead of the #4, but it is the only one in my collection with a right hand thread adjuster which is a bit of a pain.

Four of my planes are like that. Keeps a person on their toes.

jtk

[Tom Trees]

A no.5 1/2 is my most used plane

[Dominik Dudkiewicz]

Thanks for the discussion guys. I had decided on a bronze #3 but it was out of stock so went for a #5. I'll most likely end up with the #3 at some stage in the near future tho :).

I like the width of the #4 and enjoy using my LN Jack Rabbet which is similar in weight and just a bit shorter than the #5 so I think I'll get along with it well. Also looking forward to swapping and playing around with the 45deg vs 50deg frog in my #4 using the frog from the #5.

Cheers, Dom

[lowell holmes]

I have Stanley Bedrock planes. I also have 5 1/2 Stanley. I guess I go for old iron. I know Lie-Nielsen and Veritas are good.

[Kevin Perez]

This is a great discussion. I'm like the OP looking for new and different tools. The LN bronze #3 is definitely on my short list. I really love the LN 62 and LN rabbet block, and want to add a few more.

[steven c newman]

Hmmmm..
393935
Sorry, I was busy raising panels...

[Matt Lau]

I'm going to add that the LV 40th anniversary pocket plane is pure joy.
It's everything that I wanted in a block plane, and shiny to boot.

I might order another one, even though I swore I wouldn't. :P

[Wojciech Tryc]

Dominik,
How about the Veritas Combination plane? It's would be like an older ("larger?") brother to your small plow plane....
Seriously, recently I replaced my plow plane with a combination plane and i love it.

[steven c newman]

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Used this a lot, yesterday....

Keep reaching for that Stanley No.3c, three patent date, plane...
394375
been a nice, little workhorse....as is my No. 14...
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By Millers falls....been the go-to jack plane, lately....

[William Fretwell]

A no.5 1/2 is my most used plane
I'm with you Tom, My old Stanley no.5 1/2 is far and away my most used and useful plane. My Veritas low angle jack is my most frustrating and least used. My Veritas large shoulder plane is a pleasure to use, I use it more than I ever thought I would.

[Jim Koepke]

[edited] My Veritas low angle jack is my most frustrating and least used.

My experience with a low angle jack has show it to be a useful plane. Though most of the time it is set up for shooting and most of the time one of my bevel down jack planes is called to service.

Are you willing to share what is causing your frustration with your low angle jack?

Possibly others here may be able to help get it to working more like you want.

jtk

[William Fretwell]

Mostly tear out causes me grief, i’ve Changed angles, tried secondary bevels but little joy.

[Jim Koepke]

Mostly tear out causes me grief, i’ve Changed angles, tried secondary bevels but little joy.

My only solution for tear out has been a blade as sharp as possible and thinner shavings. Sub thousandths of an inch shavings sound like a crock of shaving cream, until they are the only thing to control tear out if you do not have a chip breaker. Some things do not even respond to that.

That is why my low angle jack is used mostly for shooting end grain. Its blade also gets sharpened to 25º without a secondary bevel.

jtk

[Derek Cohen]

Mostly tear out causes me grief, i’ve Changed angles, tried secondary bevels but little joy.

William, if you are getting tearout planing with the grain with a high cutting angle (say 62 degrees), then your blade is dull.

Do you sharpen a full bevel or a micro secondary bevel? With BU planes I do not recommend a full bevel, as the angles are so steep and it is difficult to be sure that you are working the edge from front to back. A high micro secondary bevel (say, 50 degrees) on a 25 degree primary bevel, using a honing guide, is the better option for these planes. This also makes it possible to camber the edge (since there is less steel to remove).

My apology if this is telling you how to suck eggs, if you are doing this already, but the information may help another.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[William Fretwell]

Thanks Derek, I’ve tried both full bevel and a secondary, not 50 degrees however as that is a scraping plane. The blade is certainly sharp!
Many woods respond with a carefully fitted and set chip breaker so much better it renders bevel up tools of limited value. End grain is certainly one effective use. This is why we have lots of tools!
I will keep the angle low and use it for end grain and those few woods that can tolerate it.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi William

Ahha.. The reason for the tearout is that your cutting angle is not high enough. Try adding a micro secondary bevel of 50 degrees. It can be minuscule and, if you do not like the result, simply grind it out. I think that you will like the result :) Then you will get a second blade.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[William Fretwell]

Will try it!

[Matt Lau]

Hey Dom,

If you ever have that problem again, here's a few different suggestions that you may find fun:
1. Japanese chamfer plane.
These seem superfluous, mono-taskers, until you use them. It leaves a crisp, uniform, perfect chamfer every time. I like it with a skew blade.
2. Older router plane
I have one in mahogany from England (ebay). It's not the most practical or sharpest thing that I have, but is immensely satisfying to hold.

But yeah, that 40th anniversary plane from Lee Valley really makes me giggle like a schoolgirl.