Live Oak lumber

[Ben Abate]

Hello All

i have a question for anyone that is familiar with Live Oak Lumber. This never came to mind when I owned a vacation home in Myrtle Beach but when recently visiting Savannah Ga i was asked a question about Live Oak Lumber and it’s characteristics. I couldn’t answer his question.
so I thought I’d ask here to see what are the characteristics of Live Oak when used for Woodworking or flooring. Or are the trees so protected that there is not much lumber available

I also noticed in a few buildings the flooring was a type of oak that I did not recognize. One building was a golf club in Hilton Head The floors looked like a fumed white oak but I don’t think it was. Both times when I saw this flooring I noticed the dark streaks in it similar to wind shake you see in cherry. Beautiful flooring in fact I liked it so much I’d consider using when we remodel our kitchen and living area later this yr or next yr. I asked around but folks looked at me like I was a bit nuts. I should have taken pictures

thank you for your help

[Bradley Gray]

I was in SC visiting my uncle a few years ago and admired the live oaks in Savannah and Buford. I recall the trees being seriously protected. I think permission was needed to cut a limb over a certain size, maybe 6"?

[Richard Hash]

It's definitely not "protected" at least not anywhere near where I live (20 miles south of Houston). They are very abundant and I see them being cut down all the time as they are frequently planted between sidewalks and roads and then cut down 25 years later as they start tearing up both sidewalks and roads (hey, what are my tax dollars for anyway?). Super common yard tree, volunteers will grow under any tree producing acorns (which they do by the multiple-thousands).

I like live oak alot, most of what I've used has interlocking grain which I find interesting visually, though air dried lumber frequently twists and warps. It's hard, probably a bit harder than most oaks. It's got a slightly weird odor which I happen to like but I've heard people complain about it also.

[Tom M King]

It's a little over twice as hard as Red Oak, if I'm remembering that right without looking up the Janka chart. I use it, if I can get it, for window, and door sills in old houses I work on. Find the guy on youtube milling live oak with his homemade sawmill made from multiple forklifts.

[Jamie Buxton]

Part of the confusion may be that the live oak of Georgia is a different species than the live oak of Texas. The eastern seaboard one is Quercus Virginiana, and the one in Texas is Quercus Fusiformis. All that "live oak" means is that the oak does not drop its leaves for the winter. The different species may have different growth habits, and different preferences for climate. The lumber may be different too.

[Ben Abate]

Is it available for flooring or is the price too high. The wood I saw in a few places as flooring was wide and like I mentioned looked like white oak but a bit darker. From what I’ve read in the past few days it might have been Live Oak-from the color discribed online. Really a nice looking floor, in fact I remember thinking this must be some hard wood to hold up as a commercial flooring and still look good. The flooring was in the Sea Pines Golf Club house and restaurant. Very large area and I immediately noticed the flooring. You know as a Woodworker how you notice things most people just walk right by. My golfing buddies were asking where the bar was located while I was looking for someone to explain the flooring.

[Ole Anderson]

Sampson Boat Company had a whole truckload (3500 bf of flitches) milled 2.5" thick for use as frames in a sailboat restoration. Favored as extremely rot resistant, very strong and it often has bends and crooks favorable for use in the frames of a boat. Quercus Virginiana in this case from south Georgia. Here is the episode from his YouTube channel showing the live oak saw milling. If nothing else, check out the mill this ol' Georgia boy built from multiple forklifts, semis and "god knows what else". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pH37Dep0cvU

[Nick Decker]

Love that link, Ole. "You can just grab somethin' and see what happens."

[Gary Ragatz]

Here's an outfit that sells live oak flooring - maybe you can tell from their photos whether this is what you saw at Sea Pines:

https://realhardwoodfloors.com/portfolio/live-oak/

[Bill Dufour]

I split some and the wood is slightly pink with nice tight interleaved grain.
Bill D.

On Edit: California live oak is a third species Quercus Agrifolia. I did not know that! Only grows west of the Sierras

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quercus_agrifolia

[Jamie Buxton]

I split some and the wood is slightly pink with nice tight interleaved grain.
Bill D.

On Edit: California live oak is a third species Quercus Agrifolia. I did not know that! Only grows west of the Sierras

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quercus_agrifolia

Yeah, Q. Arigfolia is the most common live oak in California, but there are others, for instance Q. Chrysolepis (Canyon Live Oak) and Q. Wislizeni (Interior Live Oak). I've read that there are over thirty species of live oak native to the US and Mexico.

[Bill Dufour]

Did the east have "sudden oak dieback" the last few years? Most oak trees in California are about 230 years old according to some reports. I suppose there may now be quite a few that are three years old.
Bill D.

[Steve H Graham]

Protection for live oaks? God, I hope not. It's the most worthless tree ever invented.

My farm is covered with live oaks. They don't produce fruit or nuts. The wood is crude. They rot from the inside and die. They fall over in tropical storms. They are impossible to kill. They multiply like cockroaches and crowd out other trees. They attract squirrels, all of which should be fed into wood chippers.

The only thing they're good for is barbecue fuel. I wish they were pecans and maples.

I hate them. I hate them. I hate, hate, hate them.

[Andrew Gibson]

All the Live Oak I have cut and worked with is heavy and hard, has chocolate brown heartwood, and tends to have a lovely feather figure pattern in the trunk wood. It also has very large medullary rays when quarter sawn. Extremely rot resistant. Attached is a pick of a friend of mine setting on a few Live Oak slabs we cut a couple years back. I tend to think of the stuff as working like petrified rope. If its blowing down in less that a cat 2 hurricane and rotting, most likely it is water oak or turkey oak and not true live oak.
393282

[Steve H Graham]

Well, I'll tell you...everyone around here says the trees that fell during Irma were water oaks. I fired up the Internet and looked up oak leaf shapes, and my fallen oaks had leaves like live oaks. All I know is what the Internet tells me.

Now maybe they were secret water oak infiltrators wearing disguises...

[Robert Hayward]

I am with Andrew concerning an opinion of live oaks. I like working with the wood. It has a rich warm brown color to the wood. It is hard and durable. I do hobby and craft woodworking with a fair amount of turning. I especially like live oak for turning bowls. Crotch wood live oak is even better with its swirling, twisting and feathering grain pattern.

Quercus virginiana, a live oak, age is often measured in centuries. So not all of them are susceptible to tipping over.

Bob in Tampa Bay area.

[Steve H Graham]

After Irma, this area was full of huge live oak logs from fallen trees. Some were six feet thick, indicating they had been around a while. As far as I recall, all of them were rotten in the middle. Even if they had a couple of feet of solid wood on the outside, they had hollow places farther in.

[Andrew Gibson]

I find it easier to pick out Live Oaks by the bark. Laurel Oak/Water Oak typically have a relatively smooth bark with a grayish color. Live Oak by comparison has a much more rough bark and lacks the gray tint, similar to Cottonwood bark. The Dade City/San Antonio/St Leo area has a lot of Laurel Oaks that can get quite large... 4'+ in diameter, but they grow quickly and have a lifespan of only about 90 years before they rot out and fall. They also tend to have longer/straighter trunks than Live Oak.

If I had to guess without seeing a picture I would bet that the hollow stuff is Laurel Oak. If it is milled into slabs or lumber you can figure on loosing about 50% once dry.

[Scott T Smith]

You don’t find a lot of live oak lumber because 1) it tends to warp and distort a lot during the drying process, and 2) the tree trunks tend to be short and gnarly, which limits the availability of high quality saw logs.

[Steve H Graham]

I find it easier to pick out Live Oaks by the bark. Laurel Oak/Water Oak typically have a relatively smooth bark with a grayish color. Live Oak by comparison has a much more rough bark and lacks the gray tint, similar to Cottonwood bark. The Dade City/San Antonio/St Leo area has a lot of Laurel Oaks that can get quite large... 4'+ in diameter, but they grow quickly and have a lifespan of only about 90 years before they rot out and fall. They also tend to have longer/straighter trunks than Live Oak.

If I had to guess without seeing a picture I would bet that the hollow stuff is Laurel Oak. If it is milled into slabs or lumber you can figure on loosing about 50% once dry.

Do laurel oaks get to be six feet thick? If so, the many rotten logs I've seen could have been laurel oaks.

[Andrew Gibson]

At the ground yes they could get to 6' . trunk at shoulder height would typically get out to around 4' we had several on the property I used to live on is San Antonio FL. that were easily 4' at shoulder height, and they are known to go hollow.
Check out this link from University of Florida. http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/st549#FIGURE%201%20ST549

[Robert Hayward]

You don’t find a lot of live oak lumber because 1) it tends to warp and distort a lot during the drying process, and 2) the tree trunks tend to be short and gnarly, which limits the availability of high quality saw logs.

That is my experience also. The rough sawed live oak I get is usually a chore to get it flat on the first face. Shorter boards also while getting a nice flat piece. Last I bought was from a tree trimmer that had fallen and could no longer do much and was selling off his personal stash. All air dried and he had a bunch of Florida cherry and a trailer full of live oak all for $2.00 a bf. Up around Lecanto, do not remember exactly where. Some of the live oak boards he had were over twenty inches wide. All were in the 10' long range. I bought 100 bf of the live oak and wish I had taken it all. Beautiful brown color and hard as concrete. I think I still have one, maybe two shorter boards out in the little barn. All his live oak was rough cut at 1 1/8". If he had cut the logs at 1 1/4" ~ 1 3/8" it would have been easier to mill longer wider boards flat.

I do hobby and craft work and made a bunch of different things out of that live oak.

Andrew, do you know anyone selling dry live oak around us ?

Bob

[Andrew Gibson]

That is my experience also. The rough sawed live oak I get is usually a chore to get it flat on the first face. Shorter boards also while getting a nice flat piece. Last I bought was from a tree trimmer that had fallen and could no longer do much and was selling off his personal stash. All air dried and he had a bunch of Florida cherry and a trailer full of live oak all for $2.00 a bf. Up around Lecanto, do not remember exactly where. Some of the live oak boards he had were over twenty inches wide. All were in the 10' long range. I bought 100 bf of the live oak and wish I had taken it all. Beautiful brown color and hard as concrete. I think I still have one, maybe two shorter boards out in the little barn. All his live oak was rough cut at 1 1/8". If he had cut the logs at 1 1/4" ~ 1 3/8" it would have been easier to mill longer wider boards flat.

I do hobby and craft work and made a bunch of different things out of that live oak.

Andrew, do you know anyone selling dry live oak around us ?

Bob

You might Try Craftsman Supply, they just moved to Ybor, they get some local stuff in from a good supplier (VL). There are a couple other places selling local salvaged lumber in the area but I can't speak to quality or availability. Usually the Live oak stuff is not that popular because of how hard it is. your more likely to find it in "slab" for rather than lumber. The guys at Craftsman Supply are where I would try first.

[Alan Schwabacher]

Part of the confusion may be that the live oak of Georgia is a different species than the live oak of Texas. The eastern seaboard one is Quercus Virginiana, and the one in Texas is Quercus Fusiformis. All that "live oak" means is that the oak does not drop its leaves for the winter. The different species may have different growth habits, and different preferences for climate. The lumber may be different too.

That makes sense, and explains how "Old Ironsides" could have been clad with live oak, causing cannonballs to bounce off, while other live oak definitely does not behave that way.

[Jamie Buxton]

That makes sense, and explains how "Old Ironsides" could have been clad with live oak, causing cannonballs to bounce off, while other live oak definitely does not behave that way.

My understanding is that Old Ironsides has ribs of live oak from Virginia, and the planking is white oak. The live oak from the southeast coast is famous for a growth habit that produces branches naturally shaped like ship ribs. White oak is famous for toughness, and it is more rot-resistant than many other wood species.

[Bill Dufour]

Is this Laurel oak really laurel? IE: bay leaves for cooking come from it? the California laurel, Umbellularia californica, is the sole species in the Umbellularia genus so i guess it is not related to anything else. They do smell nice and peppery when cut or burned. called myrtle wood in Oregon. They sell little trinkets carved from it there.

Bil lD.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umbellularia

[Robert Hayward]

Our Laurel oak in Florida is Quercus laurifolia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quercus_laurifolia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quercus_virginiana
See the paragraph titled "Uses". They say Old Ironsides frame came from Georgia. Can't say for sure, I was not there when it happened. :)

Bob

[Robert Hayward]

You might Try Craftsman Supply, they just moved to Ybor, they get some local stuff in from a good supplier (VL). There are a couple other places selling local salvaged lumber in the area but I can't speak to quality or availability. Usually the Live oak stuff is not that popular because of how hard it is. your more likely to find it in "slab" for rather than lumber. The guys at Craftsman Supply are where I would try first.

I did not know Craftsman Supply moved to Ybor. Last time I went there when on Busch I got a couple sheets of Baltic birch and asked about Live oak lumber. They looked at me like I had two heads, why would you want that ?

One of these weekends I will take a road trip up around Cheifland or Gainsville areas and visit one of the mom and pop sawmills. Surely they will have Live oak.

Bob