Smoothing cherry

[Mark Rainey]

Just did a 3 board glue up for cherry hutch table top. I want to smooth this without resorting to sand paper. Is it possible? The grain is mostly straight but cherry frequently has grain changing direction, especially where the boards are jointed. My weapons include a LN #7, Stanley jack, a Lee Valley bevel up low angle jack 393016 & a beautiful Clifton #3. I am not well practiced in scrapers.

[Jim Koepke]

If you marked and followed your grain direction on the boards before gluing you should have no problem.

My choice would be the #3 to smooth it out. The blade should be sharp and the chip breaker set close. Take light shavings and all should go well.

jtk

[Jessica de Boer]

My choice would be the #3 to smooth it out. The blade should be sharp and the chip breaker set close. Take light shavings and all should go well.

I agree with the #3 to finish it. The bottom plank (left plank) has the grain running in the opposite direction so you have a take a very light shaving to avoid tear out. Set the chip breaker as close as possible to the edge of the blade and you should have no problems. And your blade needs to be slightly cambered so the corners don't leave marks in the wood if you're not planning on sanding it.

[Derek Cohen]

As Jim points out, align the grain, if possible. However, this is not possible with book-matched panels.

This is especially a time when the double iron outperforms all other plane types. A closed up chipbreaker can be used into the grain where a single iron with a high cutting angle may not. The other tool to smooth is a cabinet scraper.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Mark Rainey]

Thanks Jim, Jessica & Derek, I’ll get my #3 as sharp as I can and get my chip breaker close to the edge

[brian zawatsky]

Hey Mark. I've found that with a very sharp cutter, very close set of chipbreaker, and a nice light cut, I can smooth flatsawn cherry even against the grain. Of course try to plane with the grain whenever possible, but as you mentioned the grain in FS cherry can get wavy and change direction. I don't use a No 3, but this works with my Nos 4 & 4 1/2 so should carry true for the 3.

I've never had any luck determining grain direction just by looking at the flat sawn face grain. You really need to see whether the edge grain is rising or falling so you know whether to plane with or against the cathedrals shown on the surface. This is why Jim suggests marking grain direction on the board prior to glueup, while you can still read the edges of the boards as well as the faces. You may already know this, just stating for posterity :)

[Mark Rainey]

Thanks Brian, I was able to use my #3 sharpened with close chipbreaker with slightly cambered blade. I am happy with my results with just a few hard to see areas of tearout. Right near the “cats paw” tiny knot holes in the center there is a bit of roughness 393064 but I will live with it.

[David Eisenhauer]

The slight problem areas you ended up with can now be handled by a card scraper.

[Mark Rainey]

Thanks David.

[Robert Engel]

You're very lucky. I looks like alternating grain.

Keep that in mind in the future.

[Jessica de Boer]

I use this instead of a card scraper. I have the wide and narrow one. With a low bevel angle and a slightly cambered edge on it it delivers a beautiful surface.

https://s.s-bol.com/imgbase0/imagebase3/large/FC/0/0/8/4/9200000025814800.jpg

[Kevin Perez]

I've had good luck with the LN #63 with a high bevel angle.

[Warren Mickley]

I've never had any luck determining grain direction just by looking at the flat sawn face grain. You really need to see whether the edge grain is rising or falling so you know whether to plane with or against the cathedrals shown on the surface. This is why Jim suggests marking grain direction on the board prior to glueup, while you can still read the edges of the boards as well as the faces. You may already know this, just stating for posterity :)

The best way to determine grain direction for flat sawn boards like this is to look at the face surface and the end grain. The two lower boards in this example would have the grain going the same direction if one has the bark side showing and the other has the pith side showing. If both have the bark side showing, they would be in opposite directions.

[Mark Rainey]

I've had good luck with the LN #63 with a high bevel angle.
A LN 63??? Do you mean a LN 62 with a 38 or 90 degree blade?

[Mark Rainey]

I use this instead of a card scraper. I have the wide and narrow one. With a low bevel angle and a slightly cambered edge on it it delivers a beautiful surface.

https://s.s-bol.com/imgbase0/imagebase3/large/FC/0/0/8/4/9200000025814800.jpgintersting Jessica. Pretty cheap at $10!! If it gets the job done...

[Terry Beadle]

I have a high angle LN that can have the blade reversed and super sharpened with a slightly higher bevel angle. But that's more work than needs to be done.
I recommend you spend some time learning how to set a coarse burr vs lite burr on a couple of card scrapers.
They will do the job with the minimum of fuss and good control.

Card scrapers come in different thicknesses. I recommend the thinner ones. They are easier to sharpen and use. They bend more easily too.

Just my opinion.

Good luck and happy shavings!

PS
Wood River planes are a very good bargain. Look in on reviews of these planes by masters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpAjM01kq_s
Rob Cosman - noted educator and wood wizard! Hoot!

[Jessica de Boer]

This is the side view. When you hold it at a 45 degree angle it's more like a very fine cutting action instead of scraping. It's perfect to smooth out small troublesome spots and the replacement blades are cheap enough.

https://www.vvs1.dk/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/5/8/580341293_2.jpg

To clarify what I mean with holding it at a 45 degree angle:

https://i.imgur.com/AWaDBgp.jpg

[Jim Koepke]

The best way to determine grain direction for flat sawn boards like this is to look at the face surface and the end grain.

Learned from a few different sources, my rule of thumb is if the end grain is a smile the points of the cathedrals point in the direction in which to plane. If the end grain is a frown, then go against the way the cathedrals point.

Shortened to go with the smiles and down with frowns.

jtk

[Clint Baxter]

The best way to determine grain direction for flat sawn boards like this is to look at the face surface and the end grain. The two lower boards in this example would have the grain going the same direction if one has the bark side showing and the other has the pith side showing. If both have the bark side showing, they would be in opposite directions.

An easy way to remember is, pith side, (center of tree), go with the points, bark side, go backwards.

Clint

[Derek Cohen]

The easiest scraper to use is this - a section of 3/16' thick O1 plane blade, which I have ground to shape.

https://s19.postimg.cc/sbvgejik3/scraper1_zpsipxdaxzp.jpg

https://s19.postimg.cc/z2bxnyy03/Scraper2_zpsyar2o7ii.jpg

Sharpen by grinding a hollow all around, which raises a very small wire ...

https://s19.postimg.cc/ly6db9y8j/Sharpening-blade-scrapera_zpslgrvfjha.jpg

It is phenomenal in action ...

https://s19.postimg.cc/5cil25mrn/1_zpspr2v0uh1.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Warren Mickley]

I stopped using the scraper in 1977. The reason I stopped was that the surface I was getting with the double iron plane was superior to that of a scraper. It was also faster.

[Derek Cohen]

the surface I was getting with the double iron plane was superior to that of a scraper.

True Warren. I'd use a double iron plane as first choice, if the situation was permitting. The photo is the inside of a curved drawer front. That is one of the situations that does not favour a handplane, unless one owned a suitable double iron compass plane. Then this scraper excels. Then again, thank goodness there are many ways to accomplish the same task. It offers choices. Choices are good.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Tom Bender]

Hi Derek
Everything you do is over the top. Thanks so much for all of your posts, we learn a lot and take inspiration from them.

You 'ground that scraper from O1 steel' not something I am equipped for. If it could be bought .....

And what is that grinding wheel you show?

[Derek Cohen]

Tom

The idea is not original. It was first mentioned to me about 10 years ago by Philip Marcou (Marcou Planes), who used thick scrapers make from D2 steel. In recent years, Stewmac sell them for use by luthiers.

To make the one I have, simply find a piece of hardened steel - I cut of the rear of an O1 plane blade (using a Dremel) - and hollow grind it square on.

The grinder I use is a 8" half-speed with a 180 grit CBN wheel. I began writing about these wheels a few years ago. They were largely unknown outside the world or turners, who have been using them for a few decades. They are a game changer for flat woodworkers as well. Article: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/WoodworkTechniques/UltimateGrindingSharpeningSetUp.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jessica de Boer]

You could do the same with a wide chisel and then you have a handle to hold.

[Derek Cohen]

Jessica, it is indeed possible to scrape with a chisel. But why destroy a good edge? :)

Actually, the chisel does not scrape as well as the thick scraper. The scraper has a fine wire edge, which is created in the hollow grind. This creates a tool that will take a significant shaving, and do so for a lot longer than the fine edge of a chisel. There is also more control when holding the blade down low. The chisel handle is too high for control.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jessica de Boer]

I actually meant remove the bevel and grind a square edge on it like you did with the plane iron. Now that I think of it, you should be able to use it as a push scraper. I'm going to try this.

[Derek Cohen]

Bill Carter, the English plane maker, is credited with using a chisel as a push scraper. I have one that I converted for that purpose. It's a good tool for plane beds, but it is not going to replace a thicker cabinet (card) scraper.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jessica de Boer]

This is exactly what I meant and how I thought it will scrape: https://youtu.be/re_bp5Lp0To?t=2m7s
It doesn't surprise me someone already thought of it.

[Tony Zaffuto]

My now deceased father showed me 3 or 4 decades ago how to grind a used up mill file in much the same way as Derek's, the Stew Mac (which I have) and Jessica's suggestion for removing the bevel of a chisel. A scraper that does not get much love, but is extremely effective, is a Stanley 82 or even the 83. Another is what Lee Valley refers to as their chair scraper. These latter mentioned scrapers are quite capable of fine work, if you take your time with edge prep.

[Jessica de Boer]

A scraper that does not get much love, but is extremely effective, is a Stanley 82 or even the 83.

I don't get why the blue Stanley scraper I posted earlier is so unknown with woodworkers. I literally don't know of any other furniture maker who uses it on wood (it's actually meant to be used as a glass scraper). My father introduced me to it when I was 14 or 15 years old and I've been using it ever since. It's also a wonderful tool for removing glue squeeze out in corners without damaging the sides.

[Tony Zaffuto]

I don't get why the blue Stanley scraper I posted earlier is so unknown with woodworkers. I literally don't know of any other furniture maker who uses it on wood (it's actually meant to be used as a glass scraper). My father introduced me to it when I was 14 or 15 years old and I've been using it ever since. It's also a wonderful tool for removing glue squeeze out in corners without damaging the sides.

I have one that is unmarked, black plastic, and it works well on glue, glass, etc., however a minor issue I have with it, is the blade is square across and can dig in at its corners with a bit of inattention. The Stanleys I mentioned, you can removed the blade and sharpen the scraper blade with a radius. But the downside is the radius negates its use for glue squeeze outs in corners!

[Chris Fournier]

Sharp hand plane, pick the size that works for you and do it! #3 to #7 would get the job done in my shop, just gotta be sharp!

[Robert Engel]

Dont' use a paint scraper it will leave track marks.

[Jessica de Boer]

I had an old 30mm Stanley chisel lying around so I removed the bevel and ground a square edge on it. The blunt chisel technique is definitely a keeper.

[Tony Zaffuto]

I had an old 30mm Stanley chisel lying around so I removed the bevel and ground a square edge on it. The blunt chisel technique is definitely a keeper.

I have three glued up panels that came out of clamps late today (quartersawn white oak). As usually happens, joints always need a bit of work. What I tried, and what worked superbly and quickly, was a 1-1/4" wide long paring chisel. I did not grind off the bevel, but holding the chisel nearly vertical, pulled it towards me.

I think there are many ways to skin this cat!

[steven c newman]

393447
May give this a tryout, next time around..
393448
Yep, even has a patent date...sharpening?
393449
Is still a work in progress....

[Tony Zaffuto]

393447
May give this a tryout, next time around..
393448
Yep, even has a patent date...sharpening?
393449
Is still a work in progress....

Stanley scraper that I mentioned earlier in this thread. Works well, prepare the blade as you would a card scraper.

[Jessica de Boer]

Dont' use a paint scraper it will leave track marks.

Not if you put a slight camber on the blade. I should know, I've been using the blue Stanley scraper since I was 15 years old.