Dye application advice sought

[Mike Schwing]

Hello all,
As is the norm, I am seeking your advice on something I don't know much about - applying dye.

I have a fair degree of experience applying both water and alcohol based dyes and stains with brushes and rags/sponges. I have never been completely satisfied with the results and decided I'd experiment (on scrap first) with a spray on application. Last nights experiment has led me to this post/request.

I was dyeing curly maple sanded to 180 grit. I used a generic pump spray bottle as I saw them doing in this month's FWW to a mahogany table top. The dye was Behlen Solar Lux alcohol based dye slightly diluted. I had two main issues. Here's what happened....

1. The dye did not atomize out of the spray bottle nearly as well as I had hoped. Water sprayed through the same sprayer atomized perfectly well. I was surprised, but I suppose not shocked, when alcohol did not.

2. The dye did not lie on the work surface in an evenly distributed manner. Rather, it gathered in a spider web sort of pattern as would paint if you applied it to a surface full of oil/wax/grease. The wood was clean and dry for sure. I wound up spraying the dye on and then wiping it with a rag after all to even it out - quickly before the alcohol evaporated.

My spray on dye experiment wound up being no better than the brush/rag/sponge method. Thats why we use scrap! Mind you - results were fine - but I wound up ragging it off anyway!

Previously, I have much preferred using alcohol based dyes to water based, mainly as it seems to save time with grain raising issues.

I see several options - please comment and add more. I can switch to water based dye and continue using the spray bottle. I can purchase a small detail spray gun to use with my compressor and continue using alcohol, in the hopes of better atomization. (Or I could also use water based dye in the new spray gun). I could also simply move back to the brush/rag/sponge method!

I plan on adding some dye to the BLO that will go over the sprayed on dye as well. That may factor into your suggestions I suppose.

Thank you in advance for any comments/advice.

[Jim Becker]

Mike, I've tried both alcohol-based dye and water-based dye and prefer the latter...as do some of the resident finishing experts at that "other forum". (There are some exceptions when the alcohol-based or NGR dyes are preferred according to JK in a current post there) This, of course, is in the rare case that I actually apply color to the wood I'm working with.

I apply the dye with the same thing I apply BLO to my projects: a soft, lint-free paper towel. (Specifically, the Scott "rags in a box" in the yellow and blue box from the big-box store...lot's of boxes in that sentence!) After raising the grain and knocking it down, I apply the dye, let it dry and then knock down any fuzz with some 320 paper. I then seal the dye with de-waxed shellac--generally garnet for the finishes I favor, but any color is just fine. Of course, through this entire process, I have gloves on!

The desk I made for my niece and pictured below used this technique:

[Eric Apple - Central IN]

Mike,

I use a small and cheap conventional detail gun to shoot alcohol dye. It atomizes fine and really can help out on splotchy woods. It can also look very different that ragging it on. My usual reason for doing this is to reduce (vs accentuate) the pore structure in flat saw wood. The stucture of red and white oak can be pretty pronounced with large cathedral patterns. To really tone this down, I will mist on dye using the detail gun shooting a fine mist that dries as it hits the wood. If this is the effect your after, do not wipe. This method also works well on woods prone to splotching.

I don't shoot the WB dye. I use a saturated but not dripping rag to apply. If I'm bothering to shoot it, I prefer the fast drying time and less grain raise of the alcohol based dye.

[Dave Anderson NH]

While alcohol based dyes don't raise the grain, they are a bear to get on without laps and streaks, additionally, they are less light fast than water based dyes. I use water based anilines for almost all of my coloring and tinting, though I've been moving over to the Transtint liquids as the old powder dyes get used up.

In most cases I am able to avoid the aggravating step of grain raising and sanding prior to dyeing. There are two approaches to this which offer good results. Most of the time I hand plane all of my exterior surfaces and those which will get any kind of finish. Since hand planes shears off the fibers rather than abrades them, the grain doesn't raise and hence it doesn't need sanding. There are exceptions to this however such as when planing the end or diagonal grain of a curly wood where there are slight bits of fuzz. Alternately, if I sand, I only go to 150 grit for most woods to avoid burnishing which closes the pores a bit and prevents the dye from absorbing as well or as deep. After sanding I flood the dye on with a rag or spray bottle and rub it in for even application. After the dye is dry I lay down a coat of Sealcoart dewaxed shellac. When the shellac has dried I scuff sand with 220 grit and any hairs of raised grain sticking up through the shellac are sheared off. Essentially I use the shellac to fix the raised grain in place and the sanding cuts off the fuzz. This little trick saves all of the extra wetting, drying, and sanding steps and reduces finishing time by at least a full day. I don't know about most folks, but I'll do almost anything to avoid sanding.

[Carl Eyman]

What grit do you use, Dave, for sanding the shellac and what cut is the shellac?

[Dave Anderson NH]

I use 150 grit to sand before dyeing since most of the time I'm working with mahogany. For something like maple or oak, I'd prep up to 180 grit. The Sealcoat is a 2 pound cut right out of the can and I use it that way since most of the time I will be continuing on with shellac anyway. The Sealcoat is fantastic stuff since it is a dewaxed blonde shellac and any type of finish can go over it without difficulty and it doesn't impart any color. I also like the fact that it has a guaranteed 3 year shelf life though with me it will never last anywhere near that long. After the sealer coat of shellac, I sand with 220 grit to remove the fibers sticking through the shellac and wipe with a tack cloth or vacuum clean it.

[Bob Lasley]

Dave,

I learned the hard way about alcohol dyes drying too fast and leaving lap marks. Thanks to Jeff Jewitts site I learned that adding Solarlux Retarder to the dye mix slows down the drying time and allows you to dye without the lap marks.

Bob