Vinyl Plotter Question

[Steve Middleton]

This may be in the wrong place, please feel free to move. I've been looking for a vinyl plotter/cutter to cut sandblasting masks. Any comments or suggestions on this machine would be appreciated. https://www.amazon.com/Graphtec-CE6000-60-Performance-Cutting-Plotter/dp/B00C5TNODY/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1535638126&sr=1-1-fkmr0&keywords=vinyl+plotter+for+sandblasting+mask

[Kev Williams]

boy, the prices of vinyl cutters sure have come down--

That said, when I checked out the Graftec, the first machine below in the 'related products' is a US Cutter machine for all of $370- If all you're going to do with it is make sandblast stencils, the cheap machine will work just fine...

[Real Mercier]

The first question I would ask is what are you using for the sandblast mask? Is it a paint mask for simple blasting or are you using a thick rubber mask (Anchor type)? The Graphtec may handle the rubber mask but the US Cutter may not.

Real Mercier

[Kev Williams]

That US cutter shows 350 grams max downforce, that's nearly 8/10ths of a pound; that and the right cutter should do it-- but yes, asking the seller would be a good idea :)

[Steve Middleton]

That US cutter shows 350 grams max downforce, that's nearly 8/10ths of a pound; that and the right cutter should do it-- but yes, asking the seller would be a good idea :)
Sellers comments say "will not cut Sandblast Resist". I'm thinking wine glasses, mirrors, etc so for the difference in price this might be a good place to start?

[Joe Pelonio]

My Graphtec cost $4,400 back about 2004, and I have cut a lot of Anchor stencil for sandblasted wood signs on it. I haven’t used it in a few years but it was still working well, and when I had the sign business it was cutting vinyl every day for 6-8 hours. It was my 3rd plotter, and none of the other two lasted more than 4-5 years.

[Kev Williams]

Sellers comments say "will not cut Sandblast Resist". I'm thinking wine glasses, mirrors, etc so for the difference in price this might be a good place to start?

Alrighty then, so the fabulous price likely includes 1/100,000th horsepower stepper motors! :D

[Steve Middleton]

Alrighty then, so the fabulous price likely includes 1/100,000th horsepower stepper motors! :D
I didn't find an answer to that question but found enough negative reviews to cross it off the list. Sure is a lot of difference between$400 & $1700(: I'll keep looking.

[Steve Middleton]

I searched for "Sandblast Resist" material and came up with this and it's 8mil or about .320 thick. http://www.whittemoredurgin.com/7271-vinyl-resist-12in

Is that right or am I misreading the info?

[Scott Shepherd]

8 mil isn't 8 millimeters, it's 8 mils. That's about .008" of an inch thick.

If you guys are frightened off by the $1700 one, don't look at a Summa :) Cutting thick masks, for doing things like bricks, you'd want the Anchor rubber masks. For those, a drag knife will struggle. A tangential knife helps a lot. The knife direction is controlled by a computer, not which way it's being dragged. When it gets to the end of a cut, it lifts the blade out, rotates it to the new line angle and goes back down. Doing small text on rubber mask with a drag knife is going to make someone very unhappy :)

Then again, our Summa's list price was about $10,000.

[Steve Middleton]

I thought that sounded wrong so I checked. DUH....Thanks for clarifying the cutting process. There's SO MUCH I don't know(:

8 mil isn't 8 millimeters, it's 8 mils. That's about .008" of an inch thick.

If you guys are frightened off by the $1700 one, don't look at a Summa :) Cutting thick masks, for doing things like bricks, you'd want the Anchor rubber masks. For those, a drag knife will struggle. A tangential knife helps a lot. The knife direction is controlled by a computer, not which way it's being dragged. When it gets to the end of a cut, it lifts the blade out, rotates it to the new line angle and goes back down. Doing small text on rubber mask with a drag knife is going to make someone very unhappy :)

Then again, our Summa's list price was about $10,000.

[Steve Middleton]

Ok I had a talk with my "inner tightwad" and decided on the Graphtec machine mentioned at the beginning of this thread. I'll be using it for wine glasses, etc and possibly for ageing/distressing wood which seem appropriate based on your comments. If bricks come up enough to make sense then I'll look at the $10k machine, lol. Thanks to all who responded!

[Mike Null]

Steve
I bought mine--same model-- from this company. https://www.coastalbusiness.com/vinyl-cutters.html

Look into the vinyl for apparel as well. It's easy.

The machine is a good one. I sold mine when I downsized but it's still in use and works very well. Graphtec is good stuff.

[Steve Middleton]

Thanks Mike!

Steve
I bought mine--same model-- from this company. https://www.coastalbusiness.com/vinyl-cutters.html

Look into the vinyl for apparel as well. It's easy.

The machine is a good one. I sold mine when I downsized but it's still in use and works very well. Graphtec is good stuff.

[Scott Shepherd]

Ok I had a talk with my "inner tightwad" and decided on the Graphtec machine mentioned at the beginning of this thread. I'll be using it for wine glasses, etc and possibly for ageing/distressing wood which seem appropriate based on your comments. If bricks come up enough to make sense then I'll look at the $10k machine, lol. Thanks to all who responded!

Totally the wrong machine to do masks for wine glasses. That’s photopolymer type masks. We do that too. Done 1000’s and 1000’s of them. We have a 400 piece glass order in house now. Done with Ikonics photoresist mask. You can make a dozen or so masks in 3 minutes. Google Ikonics sandblasting. All you need is the box of film to print the negative on in a laser printer or inkjet printer. Then you expose the film in a UV light source and it’s done. A zillion times easier than cutting and weeding masks.

[Steve Middleton]

WOW..............Ignorance is a real bugger! Placed the order earlier today. I'm sure I'll find a use for it? Such is life.......I've made bigger mistakes!

Totally the wrong machine to do masks for wine glasses. That’s photopolymer type masks. We do that too. Done 1000’s and 1000’s of them. We have a 400 piece glass order in house now. Done with Ikonics photoresist mask. You can make a dozen or so masks in 3 minutes. Google Ikonics sandblasting. All you need is the box of film to print the negative on in a laser printer or inkjet printer. Then you expose the film in a UV light source and it’s done. A zillion times easier than cutting and weeding masks.

[Keith Downing]

Done with Ikonics photoresist mask. You can make a dozen or so masks in 3 minutes.


I was about to suggest this as well. That stuff is amazing. Fast and easy to use.

[Jeff Watkins]

I use Ikonics Green Laser mask from time to time. You apply it to your glass or whatever and then raster it away and sandblast. I bought a way bigger roll than I needed but it gets used from time to time. It's fine for a few things but not something you want for large runs.

Funny thing I started years ago with a KNK vinyl cutter and used vinyl shelf and chalkboard paper for my masks. I was doing blasting plastic tumblers at the time with 80 grit glass bead media and it worked great.

@Steve, Let us know how your new machine works out.

[Wojciech Szul]

I was working with few vinyl plotter brands with dragged blade and best which I was using was Mimaki (Japan brand, few k$ depend of size and model). Mutoh was working not so bad as well, I was using it over 10 years. But not good as Mimaki. Roland and Graphtec was in my opinion on moderate level. Was working on both for few months. Personally I will don't go to Graphtec, it was closest in quality to typical China products. Cheap Chinese - generally not too good (have one at this moment, called Foison C-24). Biggest issues with cutting thick sandblasting material are:
1) Can't cut through even with designated blade - due lack of real force
2) Rotation of material due slipping/stretching on the rolls - especially when high cutting force is set-up
Both above depends of material brand (there are many brands and "colors" - gray, green, red etc.) and in my opinion best is a just check particular plotter with 2-3 different brands of sandblasting foil/rubber.
Unfortunately I never had a chance to use Summagraphics, but if they will be in my budget range - probably they will be the best buy.

[Steve Middleton]

I was working with few vinyl plotter brands with dragged blade and best which I was using was Mimaki (Japan brand, few k$ depend of size and model). Mutoh was working not so bad as well, I was using it over 10 years. But not good as Mimaki. Roland and Graphtec was in my opinion on moderate level. Was working on both for few months. Personally I will don't go to Graphtec, it was closest in quality to typical China products. Cheap Chinese - generally not too good (have one at this moment, called Foison C-24). Biggest issues with cutting thick sandblasting material are:
1) Can't cut through even with designated blade - due lack of real force
2) Rotation of material due slipping/stretching on the rolls - especially when high cutting force is set-up
Both above depends of material brand (there are many brands and "colors" - gray, green, red etc.) and in my opinion best is a just check particular plotter with 2-3 different brands of sandblasting foil/rubber.
Unfortunately I never had a chance to use Summagraphics, but if they will be in my budget range - probably they will be the best buy.
With all due respect I'm totally confused?

[Kev Williams]

for what it's worth since we went off the rails from rubber to photoresist, BUT Steve has a Graphtec coming:

Just did a bit of research here at work and online... The vinyl cutter I'm now using I just found out is a Graphtec FC2100-50 re-badged by New Hermes---
-just like the re-badged Universal-New Hermes laser sitting right behind it ;)
392628
Best guess on age is it's around 22 years old right now. Got it from my New Hermes rep about 8 years ago. I don't do a lot of vinyl work but it works just fine, and this much I know: My BIL has a roll of 117 Anchor resist that he cuts from time to time with it, and it's 40mils thick. It's just a swivel knife machine, and I have a 'thick stuff' knife he uses. I guess it works okay to cut the stuff, I need to ask him :)

I've found quite a few 'vinyl guys' that swear by their Graphtec machines, and I can't complain about mine :D

[Steve Middleton]

Thanks for all the input. I sent an email yesterday attempting to cancel the Graphtec cutter. We'll see if that work. In the long run it probably doesn't matter, just a matter of timing I suppose. Meanwhile I'll read back through everyone's comments and back posts and maybe I can makes sense of things or at least come up with better questions:)

[Kev Williams]

You should be able to cancel, no different than returning an un-needed gift--? No sense spending that kind of money if you ultimately don't need the thing!

[Jeff Body]

I LOVE my graphtec. I've had the cheap chinese cutters and now that I've got my graphtec I'll never go back.
It's super reliable. I haven't had to adjust anything in a very long time.
One area the graphtec excels in is that it's dead accurate if you need to run 2 passes. That's something the cheap chinese citters can't do reliably.
I cut thick reflective vinyl and I have to run 2 passes and I've never had a problem.

I see more people wishing they had upgraded than thinking 6 months down the road they spent too much.

[Steve Middleton]

I'm still confused and undecided, lol, but it's been an interesting thread with all the different perspectives. Thanks to all wh contributed!

[Tim Bateson]

I had expanded my business too wide & now all of my Vinyl equipment has been pushed off to the side & gather dust.

[Steve Middleton]

I was able to cancel the Graphtec plotter and they were VERY nice about it. Enough so that if I change my mind I'll go back to them:) I'm still reading past sandblasting threads trying to absorb some of the finer details and when I receive some media and some masking material I'll see how much I still have to learn:)

[Scott Shepherd]

Steve, sandcarving is pretty easy with the Rayzist or Ikonics setups. You simply mask the positive on your printer, then exposure the film for 2-3 minutes, and then put that on the glass, press it down, mask it off, if needed, and blast away. Wash off the item, peel the mask and it's done. It takes about 10 seconds to blast a wine glass. It takes longer to prep it and clean it than it does to blast it.

It's pretty easy. Only real issues you'll have is with the sizes of logos and shapes of glasses. You can't do a huge logo that wraps around a spherical glass too easily. You'll learn the limitations and guide customers to what they can and cannot expect to do.