finish for Walnut

[Brandon Speaks]

Hey guys,

Been finishing up some tool storage in my shop, using some nice air dried walnut. I have never been great with finishes and am struggling a bit here. On the first few pieces I used one thin coat of BLO waited a few days and did a coat of shellac. It turned out fine but a bit dull. I have another small pieces sitting with just one heavier coat of BLO that actually looks a bit better.

Anyway, enough of what I have tired so far. What would you recommend as a good finish for walnut?

[glenn bradley]

BLO is very slow curing and heavy coats are ill advised. For folks who don't do a lot of it, I advise Watco Dark Walnut finish from the BORG. This will address a couple of issues for you. Walnut lightens as it ages and can become near-blond eventually. the colorants in the Watco will lock in a typical black walnut oiled color for you.

It couldn't be easier to get a successful application. Wipe it on liberally with a folded paper towel. Wait 10 minutes and reapply to the whole piece until the areas that soaked in, remain wet. Wait about 20 minutes and then wipe it off as if you have changed your mind, changing paper towels (using clean ones in place of soiled ones) frequently. If required, a top coat can be applied in about 72 hours.

[Rob Luter]

I've always used Danish oil followed by wax. It's simple and predictable. I prefer matte as opposed to gloss and it delivers. Here's a crappy photo of what turned out to be a nice finish.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7643/26846502752_4f4671f0fb_o.jpg

[Steve Kaminska]

I like danish oil on walnut also. I put down three coats, wiping off excess oil after 15-20 minutes. On the 2nd and 3rd coats, I scrub the oil into the wood with a white scotchbrite pad ( the finest “grit”) This gives a nice satin sheen. Then I’ll finish with wax.

[Dave Parkis]

I have had good luck with Tru-Oil. All you do is wipe it on with a rag or paper towel. Just keep adding coats until you get the finish you want. It's cheap, too.

[John K Jordan]

I like danish oil on walnut also. I put down three coats, wiping off excess oil after 15-20 minutes. On the 2nd and 3rd coats, I scrub the oil into the wood with a white scotchbrite pad ( the finest “grit”) This gives a nice satin sheen. Then I’ll finish with wax.

Same here. Usually 6-10 coats over a couple of weeks, sometimes wet sanding with the oil and fine sandpaper or 0000 steel wool.

Some people buff for high gloss (especially if you fill the pores first) but I usually don't since I prefer the feel and a softer sheen.

Beads of Courage box
391912

JKJ

[Robert Hazelwood]

Most finishes make walnut look pretty good. Oil definitely works to darken walnut, and I like to use it on pieces that don't have a great color to begin with. But sometimes raw walnut (especially air dried) has a beautiful color and a delicate rainbow effect with red and purple hues. Oiling a piece like that can make it so dark that you lose some of the subtlety. So I actually like to skip the oil and use a light colored shellac. This is personal preference- if you like a dark look it's hard to go wrong with oil on walnut.

Of course BLO on its own is not much of a finish aside from imparting color, it would at least need some wax.

The danish oil (oil/varnish blend) recommended by several others is a good choice for ease of application. It does not build much at all, though, and can take quite a few applications to develop a nice luster. It's also too soft to buff to a gloss if that is what you're after, but you can get a matte or satin sheen.

Wiping varnish is only slightly more difficult to apply than danish oil, can be built up and dries hard enough to buff out if desired. It's more durable than danish oil (or shellac) and if oil-based, will give a similar darkening effect to BLO.

Shellac comes in several colors, and they all can complement walnut well. It is a persnickety finish compared to the above, with a steeper learning curve, but dries quickly and with little odor. Once you get enough on your workpiece it will have a brilliant gloss, so if your test piece ended up dull you probably haven't filled the grain yet. I like to use it whenever I can, and padding is my preferred method. I take down the gloss with steel wool and/or pumice to get a satin or semi-gloss finish.

Waterbased varnish or lacquer would work fine as well, but you may may want to apply some BLO first to get a richer dark color.

[Robert Engel]

Both Danish oil and shellac do well on walnut and are pretty much foolproof.

If desired, shellac can be topcoated with a more durable finish.

[Jeff Ranck]

FWW has several articles on walnut finishing that I have found helpful. Unfortunately they are behind the paywall. Still if you have a subscription, check out the articles in issue 176 and 185. The finishes described use a combination of glazes, dyes, and shellac. They are multi-step, but do look great.

[Brandon Speaks]

Thanks for the help guys. I have a whole bin of small scraps so I will test some of this a bit. It is a really beautiful walnut with some blue and purple. At first I liked that that the BLO darkened it but it may have darkened it a bit more that I wanted.

Next up are a saw till and plane till which will have some larger panels and some really good looking boards so I want those to come out a little better than the chisel racks etc. Unfortunately now they wont match though if I dont use the oil.

I did just buy another 30 bd feet of it but dont really want to remake the peices that are already finished with BLO either.

[Prashun Patel]

If you want to use Danish oil, then I suggest you also sand to a high grit. At least 600. I find that it does wonders for the look and feel.

[James Waldron]

I've had very good results with Tru-Oil wiped on in three coats, wipe off excess after ~10 minutes with a clean rag/paper towel, dry 6+ hours and rub out with 320 grit sandpaper before next coat; final coat dry overnight, for a gloss coat, it's fine, for egg shell non-gloss, rub out with 320 grit, or for a more lustrous satin coat, follow 320 with 400 or 600 grit. Looks great. Just enough film to protect from normal wear and tear.

For pieces that will face severe duty or outdoor exposure, I've added protection of a hard, abrasion resistant two part polyurethane clear coat over the Tru-Oil. If it gets "rubbed out" within a day, it's not too hard to get a egg shell or satin finish. If you wait any longer, it's really hard work to rub it out. The PU without the Tru-Oil doesn't look anywhere near as good, so it's worth the effort to do the whole job.

Using two part PU is rather more demanding to get really good results. Most pro users spray it on. I don't use enough to justify investing in spray equipment, so I roll and tip with foam rollers and brushes. If you do it right, it looks just as good as a spray job well done. (Just so you know, single part, right out of the can polyurethane is much easier to apply, but has about half or less of the abrasion resistance of the two part version.)

[John K Jordan]

James, I use Tru-Oil quite a bit for woodturnings but never thought to top it with poly. Do you have a favorite brand/source for the 2-part poly you can recommend?

BTW, partially used bottles of Tre-Oil seem to set up quicker than any other finishes I have. I finally discovered they will least almost forever if I displace the air with nitrogen then tighten the cap. Bloxygen (argon) does the same thing but I have a spare nitrogen tank in the shop.

JKJ



I've had very good results with Tru-Oil wiped on in three coats, wipe off excess after ~10 minutes with a clean rag/paper towel, dry 6+ hours and rub out with 320 grit sandpaper before next coat; final coat dry overnight, for a gloss coat, it's fine, for egg shell non-gloss, rub out with 320 grit, or for a more lustrous satin coat, follow 320 with 400 or 600 grit. Looks great. Just enough film to protect from normal wear and tear.

For pieces that will face severe duty or outdoor exposure, I've added protection of a hard, abrasion resistant two part polyurethane clear coat over the Tru-Oil. If it gets "rubbed out" within a day, it's not too hard to get a egg shell or satin finish. If you wait any longer, it's really hard work to rub it out. The PU without the Tru-Oil doesn't look anywhere near as good, so it's worth the effort to do the whole job.

Using two part PU is rather more demanding to get really good results. Most pro users spray it on. I don't use enough to justify investing in spray equipment, so I roll and tip with foam rollers and brushes. If you do it right, it looks just as good as a spray job well done. (Just so you know, single part, right out of the can polyurethane is much easier to apply, but has about half or less of the abrasion resistance of the two part version.)

[James Waldron]

James, I use Tru-Oil quite a bit for woodturnings but never thought to top it with poly. Do you have a favorite brand/source for the 2-part poly you can recommend?

BTW, partially used bottles of Tre-Oil seem to set up quicker than any other finishes I have. I finally discovered they will least almost forever if I displace the air with nitrogen then tighten the cap. Bloxygen (argon) does the same thing but I have a spare nitrogen tank in the shop.

JKJ

nota bene: Two part polyurethane is not for everyone. It is toxic to breathe the fumes when applying (fine once it's cured). It is very demanding to apply, either by spray or by roll and tip. It is very expensive by woodworking standards. The shelf life is about one year for unopened product. Once opened, Bloxygen or Nitrogen should definitely be used. I also store mine in the freezer of my shop fridge. Even then, the shelf life is limited to about 3 months. If not stored carefully, the shelf life may be limited to 1 week. YMMV!

I most often use Interlux Perfection Plus Varnish. https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|2200442|2200478&id=1338051 It's not the absolute hardest, most abrasion resistant, but it's pretty good has excellent UV protection and is far and away the easiest to roll and tip and sprays just as well as any. For spraying, I've also used Imron and Awlgrip. In my present circumstances I don't spray anymore, so I'll leave that to others to comment upon. I also use Interlux Perfection paints as well.

For an example of both clear and pigmented, both applied with the roll and tip technique, I offer a peek at a recent build:

392065
Click for a larger view

The clear interior was applied over somewhat rough epoxy/fiberglass coating. The exterior is also epoxy/glass, but it was filled and faired before painting.

[Hasin Haroon]

I used to use Tung Oil, followed by Shellac. On a recent project I used Osmo oil, and I'm never going back to a different finish. Used it again on a countertop I recently finished.

[Lee Schierer]

I like how walnut looks under a lacquer finish. All of the squares on the table top are black walnut. If you rotate the table 90 degrees, the light and dark squares change.
392086

[Stan Calow]

I like to use garnet shellac -no BLO. Dark Walnut Watco (danish oil) if I want it to stay brown. I've heard some people use Waterlox on walnut, but have not tried that yet.

[Ron Citerone]

I used Waterlox on my last 3 walnut pieces and was very happy with the results.

[John TenEyck]

Arm-R-Seal:


https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/3kKlBxLG5WfbayhId_REWrbiA6atiCKRcclWTGmlqXx54K_U3z xtzeM1Y5pQ1NMhYNcp5FOzeZ3GvnJy68GWGsbM6pTVQB5cNgFC rHTJAkzbSEeBz_9fP-iCzdv3DxOzcO3Al6SUhT4vuVvIcG2gdxuayaVORemhplCiuPN5 Z7zriYHxg8tZ6VNGimKSqf1Yyh3Oa5Z-wWcG58nCLEz_Xlsg_FdfgRGcHSQGb2smBlnEfqsaBIjQa_7aJl BNajwYzvmh5IQfDng2S6AL_4OHl5St7o6b1ZdG-weF269Nr_cKppaMOICdesT4TLm3_ZtqlMrmc6lxzWt9KziIu96 t8RGGOWqjqwdFH4znRQ_uKbvrbPVLw5mRmRg2-5AdsQTIloFveHu4kJZKFrGzgBgFZNXo7XvGpNh1Ul4jJpWFAls UwRJzSi1B165DGUR2IGAIweIi9ozqyeGBxOx6HvUUzSOgEmIeI YR5qRat3fDT6s-uh8nBi5x9GnP1PTi3lvtZf9wYP-9_IwmRGIm-NGAyFInVQxxj7WRcjNSMbbnik-tv-qmRGA__zbHuQBE645aKaJsEnIFcYf9lPKtYB5eVCzj_zOuOA17 DSb3jIDa6qhcL7_VvMERcssX_pwsKR-Np=w640-h480-no

BLO, Sealcoat shellac, and GF's HP Poly:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Giv6nEhAiJfFP1poilmU2WGCy5VZKbz1AyEO-sKJkWMv-DTdKIdb2d6UBMvI5fGf1eos_jwkgpx4k7cA3UrF5QnyYImWKj8 OkFx3rNkYkaN1v1IfxSml6JHVs1ou_-yyeConRhj5z9MzlxXEnPyDQULnp4ygpB9M3L9SrEApyW9X9kJI NOokucUc07aiwTKmJTa8_teqJ4gG0F9tKtKW80TKg-Ikg1tPTy3jT8AG0cGnVtdyy78Q8iGEww6pHl7V1KLY7zwoVdt3 ZDq6FEirf5v5h2eQJN3fauLLP5FLifZrxiQ6SlIe_aB7AWfi__ WTvdXjHo7hMw4r_CLaAzEBShYauoDs_vYuh4-rbt8qOLbAfoi9ci4_gConwHUIAVha6GB7zolN6HxVndoRt83Ya BGRkXWBGClVSd-cRb8f36gXmPJ_Ad3UjdmNvhOdskei2j1CRd5Lewjn5NcLMEG2u xhi-4W2w5_IdZTWn8TuRscOAAy_VsCfxK6l0uLZiGAg5mUlUNw2MGg 0kM5TgnwZEVUuHxCj_fWX260TWWTrcFrz0KXkbsltkal88OyRO ErUIN8zfWvE5G7xHaNtWoXGtighvUkDAjdeTRqG8T_sK7fm5OR eF8JwBa0ppaWU4ws=w470-h626-no

John

[Bill Adamsen]

Gorgeous ... positively radiant. Nice work John.

Assuming you are wiping on the arm-r-seal ... or I see they recommend a 1.0-1.2 tip? How many coats is that top walnut piece? Is 'many coats' all you do to fill the pores? Seven days dry time is a long time (says 30 days cure). Last question ... which sheen is that?

https://generalfinishes.com/wood-finishes-retail/oil-based-topcoats/arm-r-seal-oil-based-topcoat

[John TenEyck]

Thanks Bill. I had a heck of a time with that slab. I couldn't wipe the ARS on uniformly to save myself; it was just too large and would start to set up and then I'd get streaks. I must have had 3 or 4 coats on it before I knew I had to change. So I ROS it dead flat again and then cut the ARS 25% with mineral spirits and applied it with a foam brush. I put it on much thicker than by wiping and it flowed out beautifully before it set up. I put on 3 or 4 coats that way, just scuff sanding between coats. Then I ROS sanded it again with 600 grit I think, and then applied two more coats. I applied all the coats as soon as possible after the one before to help the layers bond together and avoid witness lines in case I cut through a layer during the rub out. I let it cure 10 or 11 days and then ROS with Abralon up to I'm not sure something around 3500 - 4000 grit using soapy water as a lube. Then I used an automotive polishing compound on a bonnet on my ROS to polish it.

FWIW, I found Abralon to work well but wear out extremely quickly. I couldn't even finish the top (24 sq. ft) with one disk before it was worn out. Up to 2000 grit I use Klingspore sanding disks now, and then switch to automotive polishing compound.

I was using gloss Arm-R-Seal.

John

[Darrin Vanden Bosch]

Three words, Tried and true. This is a natural oil finish that is very easy to apply, get consistent results and is NON-toxic, with NO-VOC's, (this is NOT a water-based finish), I use 4-6 coats wiped on or a foam brush. The directions say to use a "very" thin coat, well, they mean it. Usually 24 hours between coats, depending on weather conditions, like pretty much any finish.

[andrew whicker]

Thanks Bill. I had a heck of a time with that slab. I couldn't wipe the ARS on uniformly to save myself; it was just too large and would start to set up and then I'd get streaks. I must have had 3 or 4 coats on it before I knew I had to change. So I ROS it dead flat again and then cut the ARS 25% with mineral spirits and applied it with a foam brush. I put it on much thicker than by wiping and it flowed out beautifully before it set up. I put on 3 or 4 coats that way, just scuff sanding between coats. Then I ROS sanded it again with 600 grit I think, and then applied two more coats. I applied all the coats as soon as possible after the one before to help the layers bond together and avoid witness lines in case I cut through a layer during the rub out. I let it cure 10 or 11 days and then ROS with Abralon up to I'm not sure something around 3500 - 4000 grit using soapy water as a lube. Then I used an automotive polishing compound on a bonnet on my ROS to polish it.

FWIW, I found Abralon to work well but wear out extremely quickly. I couldn't even finish the top (24 sq. ft) with one disk before it was worn out. Up to 2000 grit I use Klingspore sanding disks now, and then switch to automotive polishing compound.

I was using gloss Arm-R-Seal.

John

What grit did you finish the wood to? I'm thinking of trying out the hand scraper on my table top. I've never sanded anything above 600 grit. It makes me nervous to ROS a finish. What type of ROS are you using? I would be afraid of taking off too much finish material.

I'm assuming I could use the final sanding techniques on tung oil instead of ARS?

[Art Mann]

I am another fan of Watco Danish oil (all brands aren't the same) followed by a couple of coats of Johnson's Paste Wax. This is not a durable finish for table top use but looks great on items like clocks and boxes that won't be heavily used. Restoring the item to its original luster is as easy as buffing with an old t-shirt.

[Bill Adamsen]

Andrew ... John is pretty fast at answering. For his Arm R Seal finish ... looks like he progressed upward probably through 600 grit and then transitioned to Abralon. I'm sure he will pitch in with detail.

I use the Festool ETS EC (150mm) and the Festool grit system is slightly different from US Cami. For high gloss I use the Festool grits through 320 and then shift to Festool's Platin high grit abrasive foam pad (similar to Abralon) up to 4000 with or without a lubricant depending on finish. I put the platin on my ETS EC but most folks supposedly use a polisher.

[John TenEyck]

What grit did you finish the wood to? I'm thinking of trying out the hand scraper on my table top. I've never sanded anything above 600 grit. It makes me nervous to ROS a finish. What type of ROS are you using? I would be afraid of taking off too much finish material.

I'm assuming I could use the final sanding techniques on tung oil instead of ARS?

Hi Andrew, I can't remember exactly what grit I finished the raw wood with, but suspect it was 150 or 180 as I rarely go higher than that when applying a film finish. I have a Bosch ROS65VC ROS and like it a lot. I think it's similar to Festool but have never used one of those so I couldn't say for sure. Anyway, I don't think the actual ROS you use makes a huge difference, it's what media type and grit you put on it. Also, you'll note above that I said I applied each new coat of ARS as soon as possible over the prior. I did that so they would bond as seamlessly as possible, sort of like lacquer melting into the prior coat though I'm sure not as homogeneously.

Since that walnut slab I have switched to Klingspore film disks to rub out a finish, starting at 1200 up to 2000, again with soapy water as a lubricant. From there I switch to Evercoat Triple Cut polishing compound to polish it to whatever sheen I want up to almost high gloss, like the walnut slab. 3M's Trizac disks and polishing compounds should work well, too. Or you could use MicroMesh all the way up to 12,000 grit IIRC.

If you do use your ROS to wet sand remove the filter canister first, block off the dust outlet, and use solid sanding disks. Even then some crud will get up into it, so I take the pad off mine and blow it out after I'm done so it doesn't form a hardened mess.

John

[andrew whicker]

Hi Andrew, I can't remember exactly what grit I finished the raw wood with, but suspect it was 150 or 180 as I rarely go higher than that when applying a film finish. I have a Bosch ROS65VC ROS and like it a lot. I think it's similar to Festool but have never used one of those so I couldn't say for sure. Anyway, I don't think the actual ROS you use makes a huge difference, it's what media type and grit you put on it. Also, you'll note above that I said I applied each new coat of ARS as soon as possible over the prior. I did that so they would bond as seamlessly as possible, sort of like lacquer melting into the prior coat though I'm sure not as homogeneously.

Since that walnut slab I have switched to Klingspore film disks to rub out a finish, starting at 1200 up to 2000, again with soapy water as a lubricant. From there I switch to Evercoat Triple Cut polishing compound to polish it to whatever sheen I want up to almost high gloss, like the walnut slab. 3M's Trizac disks and polishing compounds should work well, too. Or you could use MicroMesh all the way up to 12,000 grit IIRC.

If you do use your ROS to wet sand remove the filter canister first, block off the dust outlet, and use solid sanding disks. Even then some crud will get up into it, so I take the pad off mine and blow it out after I'm done so it doesn't form a hardened mess.

John

Hi John,

I'm trying to figure this all out now that I'm getting closer to game time.

What type of bonnet do you use? It sounds like you need to slow down your ROS to mimic a RO polisher (the actual tool that we should be using)? I have the Bosch 1250DEVS (6" and variable speed).

I'm betting that I can buy whatever hook and loop 6.5" bonnet I want from the car guys and it will work, but I just don't know.

Also, it sounds like mineral oil is a better medium to use for wet sanding with an ROS when you are a newbie like me (doesn't cut as fast)? I'll give that a try instead of soap and water.

Right now, I've mixed 50/50 tung oil / citrus solvent and I'm putting that on in very light coats. For now, I'll try using Big Box Store fine sand paper with water and soap by hand while the good stuff is in the mail. I've only applied the first coat so far. Then I'll try the ROS with mineral oil when the good stuff arrives (Klingspore).

Thanks for all the help. Finishing is confusing to me.

Cheers,

[Tom M King]

John, Looks like it was worth the effort!!

[Ted Phillips]

As an alternative to "wet" sanding, I rub the finish out using wax and oil-free 0000 steel wool. Generally, I use my own wax blend, which is made with beeswax, shellac wax, mineral spirits, and sometimes other additives. The first couple of rub-downs, you need to wipe completely off, to get rid of the swarf. Then apply a last top coat with muslin and buff it out. This works on top of almost any traditional finish (BLO, Watco, TruOil, shellac, waterlox, etc.).

[Michael Costa]

I enjoy reading threads about finishing because it's both an art and a science, and since the wood we use is so stupid expensive it's nice to hear advise from those who have been there and done that.

My (possibly dumb) question is why not use walnut oil on walnut? Also, what applications would walnut oil be useful or preferred?

And lastly, to those who like danish oil followed by wax, what are you using for wax? I've never dealt with wax other than with turning.

[William Young]

Since you are experimenting, try mixing equal parts of BLO, MS or turpentine, and poly. You can add some japan drier if you like. It will give a similar look and feel as Danish oil, but will dry much faster and will be somewhat more durable. Apply with blue towels in very thin coats. The final coat can be sanded in using 600 grit wet/dry sandpaper to give a silky smooth final surface. Finish with a coat of paste wax.
I haven't tried it, but I understand a 50-50 mix of danish oil and poly does about the same.

[Phil Mueller]

Hi Michael, I enjoy reading these threads as well. Lots of good learning. I’ve done a number of projects with Watco followed by wax. I use whatever wax I have around....Johnson’s, Briwax, Rennaissance. Haven’t really been able to tell the difference.

If I’m just doing Watco and wax, I do wet sand the Watco up to about 1000 grit...smooth as a baby’s bottom on wood like walnut. And I do let the Watco cure for a week or so before the wax. Also, keep in mind, this is not something you want to do for the inside of boxes, drawers, etc. The oil will smell for decades...BTDT. The inside of things just get a wash coat of shellac.

[Michael Costa]

What about the use of walnut oil on walnut? Seems appropriate. Lol.

This thread alone has so much info that my head is spinning. I don't need this information now, but know I will in the future. Is there a way to save threads to a favorites area for easy access later? I'll either spend hours hunting this down some day, or I'll end up asking the same question.

[John K Jordan]

What about the use of walnut oil on walnut? Seems appropriate. Lol.


Each type of oil finish seems to have it's supporters, probably because they get good results. I've tried Mahoney's walnut oil, tung oil, and "danish" oil on woodturnings and the results look the same with the same application. The result with a different application will look entirely different. I use the Watco "danish" oil (BLO/varnish/solvent) on most woodturning snow since the local Ace sells it for an incredibly good price.

JKJ

[Stan Calow]

Yeah, seems like walnut oil would be the right thing, doesnt it? I use walnut oil on things like cutting boards and kitchen tools. It doesnt do anything special on walnut, and since it doesn't dry like BLO or tung oil, it doesnt make for a good finish on furniture or items that need protection.