bed frame question

[Mike Walsh]

I'm building a queen size bedframe for my daughter who does not want to use a boxspring. I've read a number of different opinions on whether or not a center support is needed, slat width and thickness, plywood instead of slats, etc. The siderails are 1-1/4" poplar, about 7" wide

Any thoughts, advice would be appreciated

Thanks!
Mike

[Dave Richards]

Are you planning to use a sheet of plywood or maybe two panels of plywood instead of slats? If so, 3/4 in. plywood and no center support needed. Unless the mattress is quite thick, the bed will be very firm.

[Bill Adamsen]

7" high side-rail is very substantial. If you plan slats with no box spring, you may find that larger than necessary. The good news is that it gives plenty of surface for a ledger that can support substantial slats. Slats of 5/4 material (5/4 x 4 poplar) work fine for a queen sized bed. I'd have to go measure but off hand I think spaced 4"-6" apart works fine. The spacing doesn't need to be consistent. The hips and shoulder probably could use a closer placement while the legs and feet need less support. I typically fasten only one or two of the slats to the ledger. If no box spring is used, I mount so that the slats are near the top of the side-rail so that it is easy to make the bed (tuck in sheets).

[Mike Walsh]

Thanks for the quick replies. I don't have the material for the mattress support yet, so could go with either slats or plywood - from the comments it also sounds like either will be ok. The bed will be going into a 3rd floor apartment, which also may figure into things depending on how narrow the stairways are (no elevator). Probably easier to carry up a bunch of slats than partial sheets of plywood

[Jim Dwight]

I've made at least 5 platform beds so far. One has a continuous 3/4 plywood support. It is quite firm. My son and his wife like it OK but they like a different bed better. It has a even more rigid box structure I made to replace a box spring. The top is only 1/2 plywood but it has vertical wood supports of 3/4 plywood the same height as the old box spring. I think it is the design of the bed they like better, they both are rigid making the mattress firm. I slept on the bed they like for a couple decades, I can attest to the fact it is comfortable.

I think I like the bed I gave my daughter for a wedding gift best. It has slats of 3/4 plywood that are a foot wide. There is some give but not a lot. For one or two average size or smaller people, I think that is a good choice.

I also made a bed from Matthias Wandel's plans that call for slats of 2x3s spaced a couple inches apart. I've slept on it too, it is comfortable, the give is similar to the foot wide 3/4 plywood slats.

An advantage of the plywood slats is it is easy to make them a little over 5 feet wide so you can more easily tuck in the sheets.

I also built a double bed that is in my daughters guest room with slats of 3/4 baltic birch plywood. They are about 4 inches wide and spaced an inch or so apart. It is OK for one, but I think its a bit too soft with two adults.

So with that experience, my next bed will have slats a foot or so wide of 3/4 plywood. 2X slats work fine too but I get tempted to make them where there isn't adequate clearance for making the bed. If I was making the bed for people that are heavier than average, I would increase the slat width - maybe use 15 or 18 inch wide slats. They still will be easy to move. They can also be easily modified to be stiffer with a rib underneith.

[Mike Ontko]

I'm currently building my third bed, or fourth if you count bunk beds separately. Except for the twin size upper bunk bed (the lower is full size), I've included a center support on all of my projects just to eliminate any possibility of sag. The current bed project (https://sawmillcreek.org/album.php?albumid=902) is queen sized (roughly 60 x 80 inches) and will include three horizontal supports to hold up the box spring. And because there'll be a box spring, I'm not including any additional slats for support. However, both the king (https://sawmillcreek.org/album.php?albumid=864) and full (https://sawmillcreek.org/album.php?albumid=872) size beds I did previously had center supports that locked into the head and foot boards. This locking is intended to prevent the support from being pushed up (presumably by a carpeted or otherwise uneven floor) higher than the side rail supports that the slats sit on.

I should have added that the three support members for the queen sized bed will have legs/feet that reach the floor--they're not just long slats.

[Brian Holcombe]

A center support is absolutely needed.

[Bill Dufour]

I have heard that plywood is a poor choice. you want some air flow to the bottom of the mattress so it can dry out and not get moldy.
Bil lD.

[Jim Morgan]

I have heard that plywood is a poor choice. you want some air flow to the bottom of the mattress so it can dry out and not get moldy.
Bil lD.

Sorry, that's a myth. Box springs do not provide air flow to the underside of the mattress, but no one ever expresses concern about box springs causing mold.

[Brian Holcombe]

Not a myth that they need air flow (I have no idea about the mold) it depends on the mattress. The manufacture will usually call out their required support.

[Dan Friedrichs]

Maybe I'm missing something, but why would flex in the bed frame be desirable? Wouldn't you want it to be as stiff and flat as possible? Any flexion would cause it to dip in the middle - I can't see how that would be comfortable...

To that end, I agree with Brian that a center support is necessary (unless you want to use quite thick slats). A center support is easy to build. I can't imagine many compelling reasons to avoid it.

I just finished 2 platform beds. One used 3" slats of 3/4" ply on 3" spacing. Nylon webbing is stapled to the slats so they can be rolled up for transport.

The other (a king size) uses 10" wide 3/4" ply panels, with a 3" section routed out of the middles (to reduce weight). These are locked into place with dominos. The routed middles make them easy to carry.

[Lee Schierer]

Not a myth that they need air flow (I have no idea about the mold) it depends on the mattress. The manufacture will usually call out their required support.

I've had regular and foam type mattresses on our platform type bed with a solid plywood top for over 30 years and there has never been any air flow under the mattress and also no mold issues. It is supported in the middle and we have no sagging.

[Brian Holcombe]

Lee, I’m not excluding plywood, instead I’m saying it depends because I know of at least one manufacturer that requires open support.

[johnny means]

I`ve built plenty of beds and could never get a queen to not dish without some extra support. Usually this was just three equally spaced 1"×5" supports screwed to the bottom of a solid plywood support.

[Dan Rude]

Check out Charles Neil's You Tube video for Bed Slats. He makes them in a I-Beam configuration, even points out they work on King size without a Center Support. Dan

[Bill Adamsen]

Plywood (slats at least) is really not the right choice if alternatives are available.
The flex is far greater than a similarly dimensioned hardwood.
Try using Woodweb's "Sagulator" to calculate an appropriate slat.
https://www.woodbin.com/calcs/sagulator/

[Thomas L Carpenter]

Just a thought about those 7 inch side rails. My bed is a converted water bed frame that has high side rails like all the water beds used to. It is a ROYAL PAIN to put on fitted sheets on this thing. I should have cut the sides down years ago.

[Mike Walsh]

thanks for all of the comments, I think I have a few options that will work. I've built 2 twin size frames before that didn't require much concern about the slats - should have spent more time in the "planning phase" for this queen size frame

[Jim Becker]

I would personally do a center support and shorter slats (or a center support with a plywood deck if that's the preference) for a Queen bed just as I would for a King. Even my daughter's Ikea queen bed is built that way to help distribute the load evenly. I also personally prefer slats because of how they breath, but there's nothing wrong with plywood as long as the specific mattress is ok to use on a solid deck as Brian mentions.

[Jim Dwight]

Even though my previous post was long I forgot to comment on center support. I've never used it on any bed I built. The bed I sleep on currently has a box spring that is supported by slats with a center leg. If you find the sag to be too much, a center support can easily be added later. That has always been my plan and I've never found it necessary to add it (but if I were to sleep with a wife on the double bed with baltic birch slats, I would add some center legs).

I think it is OK for the mattress to be on a platform with very little flexing but it is then effectively a firmer mattress. Said another way, boxed springs flex. So if you are trying to have the same firmness in the mattress as you have with a boxed spring, you have to let the slats flex some.

[Jim Becker]

A box spring generally has a rigid frame which provides some level of structural support to the mattress and bed in general. Going with slats or a plywood platform means one has to consider the support aspect in a similar way since a mattress by itself is "really flexible", no matter what the type.

[Brian Holcombe]

Here is what I’ve done for these. This assembly is very strong. The center supports are bridle joints, I join them that way so that they are sturdy enough to handle some bumps if the bed is dragged by someone. It’s not supposed to be moved that way, but expecting the unexpected is worthwhile.

https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/IMG_0563.jpg

[Sean Nagle]

I think it is OK for the mattress to be on a platform with very little flexing but it is then effectively a firmer mattress. Said another way, boxed springs flex. So if you are trying to have the same firmness in the mattress as you have with a boxed spring, you have to let the slats flex some.

Box springs of late do not employ any springs. They are essentially a platform to be used with bed frames that were designed for "box springs".

[Jim Becker]

Box springs of late do not employ any springs. They are essentially a platform to be used with bed frames that were designed for "box springs".
Agree....and are more often than not now referred to as "foundation". :)

[Ben Zara]

Make T or L style ribs and you can avoid a center support. Also makes assembly easy.

With a 7 inch side rail it should be able to hold a rabbeted slat sitting on a ledger and a vertically orientated rib that will support slat. Just make sure the side rail has a really beefy joinery where it connects to the post. Might also be better to iuse slightly thicker material than 1 1/4.

[Jim Dwight]

This is what I use to join the rails to the posts:

https://www.amazon.com/Heavy-Wrought-Steel-Fasteners-4-Pack/dp/B001DT17QI

It's a bit fussy to inlet but very strong. Totally hidden when the bed is set up. I works fine in a rail 1 1/4 wide - or even a bit narrower.

[Mike Walsh]

I finished the bed in question on SAT night, just in time for yesterday's move in. Due to "schedule constraints" I wasn't able to get to my usual wood supplier so ended up milling the slats from HD dimensional lumber, and added the "rib" in a dado in the back after watching Charles Neil's video. The rib significantly improved the stiffness of the slats, and I used 8 of them which is probably overkill. My daughter likes the bed and says it's very comfortable

Thanks for all of the suggestions!

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