Auriou, the renowned rasp maker

[Mike Brady]

I saw something unique this week regarding the Auriou rasp-making facility in France. They are seeking direct financial support from individuals in order to keep their facility operating. This is akin to a "Go Fund Me" solicitation, except post start-up. I did order a rasp from one of their dealers in response, but I wondered why they wouldn't offer an incentive to spur business rather than to just seek direct support? A plea for donations surely will be short term, as opposed to a plan to increase their sales and build a longer term plan for survival. Could U.S. trade tariffs have something to do with this? Anyway, I post this from the perspective of " go buy that Auriou rasp(s) you have always wanted while they are still available". If you are moved to donate you can go to their website.

[Vincent Tai]

Mike I went to this site https://www.forge-de-saint-juery.com

I see no mention from Michel Auriou of this or any link or something to donate. Is there another site or a Go Fund Me page? I checked another French rasp maker Lioger and didn't see anything there either.

Thanks,

Vincent

[Mike Brady]

Here is the Highland newsletter:
https://www.highlandwoodworking.com/woodworking-tips-1808aug/wn156.html?utm_source=iContact&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=wood-news&utm_content=August+2018+Wood+News

The link for Auriou is in the article and there is a translate option for the Auriou pages.

[Vincent Tai]

An interesting read in the fundraiser page. Thanks again Mike!

[steven c newman]

Paul Sellers also did a write up about this..

[Phil Gaudio]

FWIW: they make an excellent rasp. Given the rally in the $ vs the Euro, now may be an excellent time to buy, which you can do direct from their website:

https://www.forge-de-saint-juery.com

[Sanford Imhoff]

Odd. Here's a quote from the Auriou site:

"Since re-starting his factory in 2008 with essential and considerable help from Classic Hand Tools (UK) and Magma (Austria), who just couldn't bare to let this legendary business die, Michel Auriou is making a wide range of rasps and rifflers for wood and stone with a strong team of skilled blacksmiths and rasp stitchers.
In 2017 ownership of the business became French again with both CHT & Magma reverting to approved stockist status having succeeded in saving the legendary rasp making business in very turbulent and difficult trading times. Bravo!"

[Simon MacGowen]

Unless you are a chair maker or do a lot of sculptural work, such pricey rasps are beyond reach of most hobbyist woodworkers. Auriou also has a strong competitor in EU: Loigier. Can the limited demand for such rasps support two handmade rasp vendors? Time will tell.

I use a rasp in about 1 out of every 5 projects, and the hand cut rasps are from Lee Valley, under $30 a piece.Well worth the money.

Simon

[Brian Holcombe]

I have three of their rasps, they’re pretty nice. If you’re careful it takes a long time to use up a rasp.

For really fine work I prefer to use a file.

[Jim Koepke]

Unless you are a chair maker or do a lot of sculptural work, such pricey rasps are beyond reach of most hobbyist woodworkers.

High quality has the disadvantage of high prices. The cost of my two Auriou rasps has long been forgotten. The pleasure of using them is renewed each time one is put to work. Though some of my Italian made rifflers are nice, they do not quite come up to the same quality as an Auriou.

My understanding is there are some legal strictures in French labor law such as a cash reserve requirement for funding wages during times of low demand, read layoffs, among other agreements and practices.

As others have suggested, maybe this is a good time to fulfill our desires and order a rasp or two.

jtk

[Simon MacGowen]

Though some of my Italian made rifflers are nice, they do not quite come up to the same quality as an Auriou.


jtk

These ones are also excellent for their prices: http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=20144&cat=1,42524

I use them to carve one of a kind cabinet door knobs. Quick stock removal and shaping even with light touches, followed by a swipe or two with 220x and the job is done. How could they hand cut these for just $75 a set and still make a profit is beyond me?

Simon

[Simon MacGowen]

If you’re careful it takes a long time to use up a rasp.

For really fine work I prefer to use a file.

Brian,

Truth be told, I have not had success with finishing a curve piece with rasps alone. The finest rasps still leave marks that I want to remove with a card scraper, a shave or sand paper, depending on the curvature. I use rasps mostly for stock removal than as a surface-finishing tool. I wonder if a rasped surface and a planed surface might look different after a stain finish is applied. Any experience with that?

Simon

[Brian Holcombe]

I don’t finish anything curved with a rasp, I use a super fine precision file (00), followed with steel wool. The rasp just gets me a profile in tight spots where I can’t reasonably get a shave. I have small shaves but they’re sometimes more effort than they’re worth by comparison to rasp or file.

[Bob Glenn]

Steward/ MacDonald offers reasonably priced hand stitched rasps also.

[John C Cox]

One thing to keep in mind.

“Auriou” is no longer owned by the Auriou family. There was a falling out with the labor unions and the family who owned the business was basically forced out through some strange twist of French law....

The current Auriou family owned business is the Forge of St. Juery (or however you spell it). They are making high quality French rasps there now.

So.. Before you go donate - please research a bit to understand what you are actually donating to and where the money is actually going. If it’s going to “Auriou” - it could be a ploy created by somebody who is not the Auriou family to soak folks under the guise of supporting a historic business that makes fine tools...

[Mike Brady]

The funding campaign is for the Forge......, and the solicitation for the aid that I first saw was from Highland Hardware in Atlanta. They are a reputable establishment.

[Simon MacGowen]

One thing to keep in mind.

“Auriou” is no longer owned by the Auriou family. There was a falling out with the labor unions and the family who owned the business was basically forced out through some strange twist of French law....

The current Auriou family owned business is the Forge of St. Juery (or however you spell it). They are making high quality French rasps there now.

So.. Before you go donate - please research a bit to understand what you are actually donating to and where the money is actually going. If it’s going to “Auriou” - it could be a ploy created by somebody who is not the Auriou family to soak folks under the guise of supporting a historic business that makes fine tools...

I am only interested in supporting a business as a customer, not as a donor, unless that business is a charity entity. If we helped Auriou, should not we do the same to others like Loigier to keep the level playing field?

It is better if Auriou were selling memberships (like Bridge City Tools) to raise funds to address its short-term needs and people could enjoy some discounts from the memberships when they made a future purchase.

I have not gone to the fundrasing site, but please explain to me how this crowdfunding is different from panhandling.

Simon

[Frederick Skelly]

I will gladly send money to buy their excellent product. I won't donate any additional money just to maintain a french business or historical site. I'll leave it at that to comply with TOS here.
Fred

[John C Cox]

I have one of his fine rasps and I love it... The cheapies are nothing like his. I agree on the sentiment of buying one of his rasps if you are a rasp user. They really are fantastic.

And are they really 4x better than a Nicholson or 8x better than a miscellaneous Chinese import - absolutely...

[Simon MacGowen]

And are they really 4x better than a Nicholson or 8x better than a miscellaneous Chinese import - absolutely...

The Chinese imports I believe are machined, not hand stitched. Gramercy rasps are imported from Pakistan but they are hand cut. I have not tried any Gramercy's.

Simon

[Jim Koepke]

My Pakistan rasps are all much coarser than my Auriou or Italian rasps.

jtk

[Graham Haydon]

Simon, I agree with your concerns. I hope they resolve their issues but I don't feel the approach they've gone for is appropriate for me to support. It's interesting to read the post about them needing support in 2008. Have Loigier had ongoing issues in the same way?
All credit to Lie-Nielsen and all the others who manage to keep on going.

[Hasin Haroon]

Maybe I'm just not that magnanimous but I won't be donating money to keep the business afloat - I will however consider purchasing their rasps to provide my support, as I have wanted them for a while. I just don't think a business such as this is a donation worthy cause.

[Matt Lau]

My Pechar rasps are far finer than my Auriou.

http://www.pechar-rasps.com/en/

[Warren Mickley]

I know very little about rasps. I am more of a gouge and chisel guy. However I have met Michel Auriou and looked at his carving tools, something I know a lot about. I found Auriou to be quite knowledgeable, genuine and helpful. This is in contrast to most of the other vendors I have met. Here is one example: I was once looking at Harrelson Stanley's sharpening jig and stones. He came up to me and told me that I would never be able to get good results with freehand methods. That I needed to buy his side sharpening gizmo. The truth is that I was trained to sharpen freehand before Harrelson was born. I was already an expert before little Harry started kindergarten. I could tell many other stories like this, but it would upset the readers.

As we saw in the Stan Covington situation, this forum is sort of a marketing arm for certain vendors, who support it. The forum is also supported by contributors who also are contributing to the vendor's commercial interests. I also contribute to this marketing when I offer a post worth reading. There is nothing wrong with any of this as long as we have both eyes open.

As I said I have met Michel Auriou and I wish him well. There is nothing dirty about asking for money when in need. And a lot worse stuff goes on in the tool trade.

[Jeff Bartley]

The Auriou rasps sure are nice, I don't have anything to add to that discussion but Warren, what is the situation with Stan? I haven't had the time to read the forums much over the last few months. Jeff

[Jim Koepke]

The first question for me is what purpose is served by a one time donation?

Is this a one time expense to get over a bump in the road?

This could be building, equipment or other expense of doing business.

Another thought is will this be an ongoing occurrence?

My first thought is to order a few of the rifflers that have caught my eye in the past and see if there is a way to toss in an extra 10€ or so with the order.

Looking at the site it looks like they have reduced the number of their offerings.

Another thought is to order direct. Ordering through a vendor is not likely to put any extra money into the forge since the vendors likely sell from stock that is already invoiced and paid.

jtk

[Matt Lau]

I think that one of the moderators took offense that Stan sold some tools on the side as a hobby.
He insulted Stan for "taking advantage" of stuff. Apparently, there was quite a tiff. I wasn't here.

Stan felt insulted and quit sawmill creek.
Sadly, he's on no other forums...he's very busy with his grandchildren, church, and work.

[Mark Maleski]

My Pakistan rasps are all much coarser than my Auriou or Italian rasps.

jtk

I'm not sure what you mean, Jim. Rasps range in coarseness depending on the grain (e.g., a #6 grain rasp is for coarse rasping, a #15 grain is for finishing). Do you mean that the Pakistan rasps aren't finished to the same degree, or....?

I have a Gramercy rasp (from Pakistan) and a couple from Auriou. Since they're different sizes/grains I can't really compare/contrast them, and all work fine. The quality of the handles do vary; LN added a beautiful handle on my Aurious, whereas the handle on the Gramercy shows some tool marks (which doesn't detract from its use).

I use my rasps all the time.

[Mark Maleski]

Maybe I'm just not that magnanimous but I won't be donating money to keep the business afloat - I will however consider purchasing their rasps to provide my support, as I have wanted them for a while. I just don't think a business such as this is a donation worthy cause.

I think the issue is that they can't keep up with demand due to outdated machinery, so they can't sell their way out of the problem. Would sure hate to see them go out of business...I don't need any more rasps but their carving tools are fantastic.

[Simon MacGowen]

I think the issue is that they can't keep up with demand due to outdated machinery, so they can't sell their way out of the problem. Would sure hate to see them go out of business...I don't need any more rasps but their carving tools are fantastic.

Does anyone know why they can't follow Econ 101 and raise the prices so demand and supply can reach an equilibrium, without asking for donations? Or, if demand is so good (and they can prove it), shouldn't a business loan for capital investment be the way to go?

Simon

[Jason Lester]

Does anyone know why they can't follow Econ 101 and raise the prices so demand and supply can reach an equilibrium, without asking for donations? Or, if demand is so good (and they can prove it), shouldn't a business loan for capital investment be the way to go?

Simon

That's what I was wondering as well. A legit business shouldn't be asking for donations. More business than you can handle is usually a good thing in the business world.

[Chris Parks]

I think the issue is that they can't keep up with demand due to outdated machinery, so they can't sell their way out of the problem. Would sure hate to see them go out of business...I don't need any more rasps but their carving tools are fantastic.

Usually brought about by bad management and "can't see the woods for the trees" syndrome that most long lived businesses suffer from in one form or another.

[Brian Holcombe]

Does anyone know why they can't follow Econ 101 and raise the prices so demand and supply can reach an equilibrium, without asking for donations? Or, if demand is so good (and they can prove it), shouldn't a business loan for capital investment be the way to go?

Simon

I tend to think that the demand for rasps shrinks rapidly as the price increases. Otherwise I would expect that they would have already raised prices. Given the large number of alternatives to their product, I can certainly see why they chose a path of retaining their demand and their pricing.

I've often thought this way about Japanese tool makers as well, but I've come around to thinking that likely they prefer the assurance of endless work over the optimization of their pricing at current demand. They chose a pricing model which allows demand to build to the point where they have a significant backlog for that purpose.

The secondary market is where we can test this idea, of course people buy their products (handmade Japanese tools) and immediately turn around to sell them and likely find that many people are often willing to wait rather then to spend slightly more. I believe this is due to the fact that the demand drops off rapidly as the price increases beyond the expected prices. Japanese tools only tend to increase greatly in price when the maker is no longer available at any wait (retired). Kinshiro marking gauges are an example, they're easily 3x the price of the next best alternative and yet when they're made available to the market they're usually scooped up immediately.

[Warren Mickley]

The funding campaign is for the Forge......, and the solicitation for the aid that I first saw was from Highland Hardware in Atlanta. They are a reputable establishment.

I checked on the Auriou website earlier this week. The fundraising has exceeded the goal and I think the appeal has been taken down. So the self righteous need no longer fret about it.

As it happens, I met Michel Auriou in 2011. I had a nice talk with him about chisels and would judge him extremely knowledgeable. The same day I talked with three different Lee Valley representatives, also about chisels. (They had prototypes of the new chisels). It was a huge contrast to Michel- it was as if they had never used chisels before. Like I had a language barrier with the Lee Valley people , none with the Frenchman.

[Stewie Simpson]

Why such a crowdfunding campaign ?


We kindly ask for your support because the future of our craft and the future of our company is at stake.
The team skills has reached a good level thanks to the management huge efforts over the past years and needs to develop even further.
The company basis is now built and sane.
The team is trained, in place and is increasing every day in efficiency and in production quality. Customers knock on the door and we cannot properly supply the demand.
The company break-even point is now reached.
The only point we need to clear is the lack of company cash.

Our first goal is to reach the €40,000 line. This amount represents about one month cash flow and must be achieved for the company continued activity. Basic material supply will be seriously eased.


Should €50,000 be reached, we will be in a position to renew and enhance our forging machines as well as our thermal processing tools for better productivity. We will also be in a position to release a much better and attractive internet website.


Finally, if €60,000 cash amount is collected during this campaign, the company will be in a position, in addition to the first two achievements , to further develop the production tools and processes in order to meet a strong and raising demand for wood sculpture tools.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0G1xkTrm0pM

[Simon MacGowen]

I tend to think that the demand for rasps shrinks rapidly as the price increases. Otherwise I would expect that they would have already raised prices. Given the large number of alternatives to their product, I can certainly see why they chose a path of retaining their demand and their pricing.



Price sensitivity certainly exists, but I do not recall this particular rasp manufacturer changing its prices to the extent that it suffered from a huge loss of demand. In general, buyers of luxury goods are often less sensitive than buyers of everyday items, and his rasps are by no means everyday goods. Machine-cut rasps are not his real competition, either.

Still, even if hand-cut rasps are very price sensitive, it is possible to regulate demand (which is alleged (claimed?) to be the cause (symptom?) of trouble for that company) by gentle pricing adjustments.

Simon

[Brian Holcombe]

If they could simply raise prices and resolve every issue, I'm sure they would have done so.

I don't see any reason why the approach they took was anything other than a viable solution. They raised financing without incurring debt, decreasing demand or otherwise adversely effecting their operation and are now able to immediately apply the new capital into their business to improve their product and further increase demand and supply as well from the sound of it.

[Simon MacGowen]

If they could simply raise prices and resolve every issue, I'm sure they would have done so.


Nothing in the public domain suggests they have even tried.

As the outcome of their fundraising is positive, we can only hope that they have found the long term solution to their problem.

Simon

[Chris Parks]

Nothing in the public domain suggests they have even tried.

As the outcome of their fundraising is positive, we can only hope that they have found the long term solution to their problem.

Simon

Seeing this is not the first time they have resorted to this I doubt the solution is long term. I would be ashamed to put the begging bowl out as they have done, doing that shows that either the business model is not viable or they are bad managers or perhaps both. Imagine someone like Kodak doing the same thing, they would have been laughed at but except in scale there is no difference. I have had more than one business and cannot believe the audacity of begging for money to keep it going. I know it is a hard nosed view but I was taught that a business is supposed to survive by making a profit.

[steven c newman]

Not so loud.....next thing you know...Sears will be doing the same thing....

[Stewie Simpson]

Seeing this is not the first time they have resorted to this I doubt the solution is long term. I would be ashamed to put the begging bowl out as they have done, doing that shows that either the business model is not viable or they are bad managers or perhaps both. Imagine someone like Kodak doing the same thing, they would have been laughed at but except in scale there is no difference. I have had more than one business and cannot believe the audacity of begging for money to keep it going. I know it is a hard nosed view but I was taught that a business is supposed to survive by making a profit.



81160 SAINT JUERY
France


Tel +33 (0) 5 63 45 53 64



www.forge-de-saint-juery.com

[Van Huskey]

Does anyone know why they can't follow Econ 101 and raise the prices so demand and supply can reach an equilibrium, without asking for donations? Or, if demand is so good (and they can prove it), shouldn't a business loan for capital investment be the way to go?

Simon

Apparently, they were smart enough to skip the Econ 101 approach and go to the Econ 423 solution and raise the capital with no debt and no stings, it seems like they showed Econ 101 for what it is, a class in Macro Economics for wide eyed 18 year olds.

The intelligence of this approach remains to be seen and the long run will bear out whether they have the proper business plan in place to make efficient use of the infusion. My guess is the bulk of the donations came from (more or less) local patrons who are interested in helping a local and historic business.

[Luke Dupont]

I checked on the Auriou website earlier this week. The fundraising has exceeded the goal and I think the appeal has been taken down. So the self righteous need no longer fret about it.

As it happens, I met Michel Auriou in 2011. I had a nice talk with him about chisels and would judge him extremely knowledgeable. The same day I talked with three different Lee Valley representatives, also about chisels. (They had prototypes of the new chisels). It was a huge contrast to Michel- it was as if they had never used chisels before. Like I had a language barrier with the Lee Valley people , none with the Frenchman.

Does Auriou make (wood) chisels? Couldn't find any mention of this on their site, but you got me curious as to what sort of chisel they would make.

[Warren Mickley]

Does Auriou make (wood) chisels? Couldn't find any mention of this on their site, but you got me curious as to what sort of chisel they would make.

Auriou does not make bench chisels and I don't think it is high on their priority list. However I think they would be in a position to make a traditional chisel, something along the lines of an old Cam or Butcher or Peugeot Freres.

Some of today's manufacturers are just machining chisels rather than forging. Machining allows one to use labor with much less skill, but it limits the design and the types of steel that can be used. Some don't machine well. I think Auriou is committed to traditional design and a skilled workforce.

[Simon MacGowen]

81160 SAINT JUERY
France


Tel +33 (0) 5 63 45 53 64



www.forge-de-saint-juery.com



Wait until the third round of crowd-funding is needed (I did not know this was the second time they came out for money (for the same or a different problem?)).

Simon

[Simon MacGowen]

Not so loud.....next thing you know...Sears will be doing the same thing....

What happened to the 900 million they got from selling the Crapsman, oops, Craftsman brand? How much do they want this time from the crowd funding?

Simon

[Brian Holcombe]

Can you really be critical of a company which needed outside funding in 2008 then managed to source it and stay in business?

[Stephen Rosenthal]

Seeing this is not the first time they have resorted to this I doubt the solution is long term. I would be ashamed to put the begging bowl out as they have done, doing that shows that either the business model is not viable or they are bad managers or perhaps both. Imagine someone like Kodak doing the same thing, they would have been laughed at but except in scale there is no difference. I have had more than one business and cannot believe the audacity of begging for money to keep it going. I know it is a hard nosed view but I was taught that a business is supposed to survive by making a profit.

Uh, ever hear of the U.S. auto and banking industries? Oh wait, they begged our government to bail them out, but the money came from us, the taxpayers. A lot less honorable than Auriou.

[Jim Koepke]

I'm not sure what you mean, Jim. Rasps range in coarseness depending on the grain (e.g., a #6 grain rasp is for coarse rasping, a #15 grain is for finishing). Do you mean that the Pakistan rasps aren't finished to the same degree, or....?

I have a Gramercy rasp (from Pakistan) and a couple from Auriou. Since they're different sizes/grains I can't really compare/contrast them, and all work fine. The quality of the handles do vary; LN added a beautiful handle on my Aurious, whereas the handle on the Gramercy shows some tool marks (which doesn't detract from its use).

I use my rasps all the time.

The rasps were of a coarser grain and less finished. Buying rasps off ebay or yard sales tends to be hit or miss.

Did get some nice Italian hand stitched rifflers from an ebay deal.

jtk