Combo jointer / planer question

[Greg Parrish]

First question, would anyone regret going from a dewalt 13” with shelix head and 6” powermatic 54a with shelix head to a 12” combo unit with straight knives?

Second question, How do the pack compare? What is the best machine for the price now? Looks like the jet units cost as much as the hammer units. Then there are grizzly and rikon for less. And stinger for somewhere in the mix.

Anyway, was thinking if I went higher end I would go straight knife to keep costs more reasonable. Figure I could sell my units to cover some cost.

Thanks for any pointers as I think this through. Trying to combine to free floor space and pickup larger jointer capacity and more powerful planer.

[Jim Becker]

You will never regret going with a better machine from the start...Hammer or SCM/Minimax are worthy of your consideration.

[Greg Parrish]

You will never regret going with a better machine from the start...Hammer or SCM/Minimax are worthy of your consideration.

Id love the hammer 16” but can’t justify the cost. Was thinking I might could swing the straight blade A3-31 12” model with mobiliy kit if I sold my current machines for enough money. Are the hammer blades good? The dewalt ones sucked which prompted the shelix head.

[Mike Hollingsworth]

I agree with your direction you are taking. You just need to save some more money and go better.
You'll miss the shelix knives.

[Dan Friedrichs]

A3-31 with SilentPower (helical) head?

[Greg Parrish]

A3-31 with SilentPower (helical) head?

Thats on my short list but I’ll need to save more pennies for the helix head version.

[Mark Carlson]

I went from a 54a with a shelix and a delta lunchbox with straight knives to to a A3-31 with a byrd head. Big upgrade which i dont regret. I'd also have been happy with the straight knives but I love a carbide insert head.

[Ralph Okonieski]

I went from lunchbox planer plus other separates to 4-function combo that includes jointer/planer with Tersa (straight) knives. The combo is 10 inch so I gave up a little width to the lunchbox BUT would never go back.

[Jacob Mac]

I bought a Minimax JP in December, and it has been a real adventure. I have gotten zero customer service from the guy I bought it from. And the manual is a complete joke. But after I got everything figured out, it has been fine to use. Having a 12 inch jointer is a real luxury.

[glenn bradley]

Anyway, was thinking if I went higher end I would go straight knife to keep costs more reasonable. Figure I could sell my units to cover some cost.

If you like insert heads, not getting them is just deferring the cost. You still spend the money, and more. The cost savings of insert heads is well published; Google is your friend. The additional cost of my insert heads paid for themselves in about a year and a half based on my hostorical knife sharpen/replacement schedule. YMMV but, the eventual pay off comes sooner than you expect.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi, the Silent Power head is well worth saving for if you're considering the A3-31.

Also buy the digital height gauge, the metric one makes most sense as the planer elevation is 2mm per revolution.

The mobility kit is also well worth it.

There may still be AWF show discounts next week, I would contact Felder on Monday to see if they're still available.........Regards, Rod.

[Greg Parrish]

Hi, the Silent Power head is well worth saving for if you're considering the A3-31.

Also buy the digital height gauge, the metric one makes most sense as the planer elevation is 2mm per revolution.

The mobility kit is also well worth it.

There may still be AWF show discounts next week, I would contact Felder on Monday to see if they're still available.........Regards, Rod.


Oh wow. Price jumped $800 in last 2hours on the A3-31 straight blade. Went from $3,300 to $4,100.

That at doesn’t count another $800 in VAT and shipping. Doh........

[Clint Baxter]

I went from a DW735, with Shelix head, and a Powermativ 54A, with Shelix to the A3-31. I did get it with the Silent Power head though, not the straight knives. Like those others before me, I would urge you to go with the helical cutters as well. I’d assume the straight knives would be adequate, but you’ll probably always wish you’d upgraded instead. I’m space challenged in my shop so the sombination unit works well in that aspect. As I’ve stated in other threads, the power afforded by the A3-31 is the biggest advantage, especially when coming from using the DW735.

As stated, definitely get the digital handwheel as well. I got the metric one, which works great on the Hammer where a turn of the handwheel gives that 2mm of travel.

Clint

[Curt Harms]

Second question, How do the pack compare? What is the best machine for the price now? Looks like the jet units cost as much as the hammer units. Then there are grizzly and rikon for less. And stinger for somewhere in the mix.

Anyway, was thinking if I went higher end I would go straight knife to keep costs more reasonable. Figure I could sell my units to cover some cost.

Thanks for any pointers as I think this through. Trying to combine to free floor space and pickup larger jointer capacity and more powerful planer.

I've read where the Jet JJP-12 got caught up in the tariff tiff where other machines did not. I have one of the first Jet machines imported into the country, they'd been for sale in Europe prior to their coming here. I have the straight knives, when I bought mine the spiral cutterheads were not available. Straight knives seem fine for straight grained domestics IME. If you're dealing with figured, interlocking grain or abrasive woods I'm sure the spirals are well worth their cost. The spiral heads do appear to require more power. The Jet JJP-12 planer feeds at 20 f.p.m., the spiral head version feeds at 12 f.p.m. Both machines have the same motor.

[Jim Becker]

Oh wow. Price jumped $800 in last 2hours on the A3-31 straight blade. Went from $3,300 to $4,100.

That at doesn’t count another $800 in VAT and shipping. Doh........
You mention VAT...are you "up north"?? That can factor into folks' recommendations, too.

[Greg Parrish]

You mention VAT...are you "up north"?? That can factor into folks' recommendations, too.

No, I’m in Florida but the EShop on their website quotes it in the price.

[Jim Becker]

No, I’m in Florida but the EShop on their website quotes it in the price.

If you are in the US, you should not have to pay VAT...we don't have VAT here.

[Greg Parrish]

If you are in the US, you should not have to pay VAT...we don't have VAT here.

Didnt think it should apply but was in the total when I was estimating shipping. Regardless, I’m not ready to get one yet so I’ll have to just call when I am. I’m still working my way through getting all my tools back in their place after my recent toolbox sell.

Thinking I may focus on a workbench as next acquisition anyway which will push the combo machine further down the list. Have been exploring the Lie-Nielsen and Sojberg benches, and looking for other options to compare. Prefer to buy rather than build I think.

[Brian Holcombe]

I like the finished cut offered by Teresa knives, the small scallop is barely noticeable and often cleans up with a thin shaving from a hand plane.

With sharp knives and an eye on grain direction I usually have zero tear out.

[Greg Parrish]

I like the finished cut offered by Teresa knives, the small scallop is barely noticeable and often cleans up with a thin shaving from a hand plane.

With sharp knives and an eye on grain direction I usually have zero tear out.

Is Tersa a brand of knife or a style of cutter head? I’m finding Tersa brand knives but wasn’t sure. Thanks.

[glenn bradley]

Is Tersa a brand of knife or a style of cutter head? I’m finding Tersa brand knives but wasn’t sure. Thanks.

The Tersa head (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ro0hEOtXdw) holds indexed double-sided knives. Sort of an adjust-once, flip or replace knives as required sort of a setup.

[Jim Becker]

Is Tersa a brand of knife or a style of cutter head? I’m finding Tersa brand knives but wasn’t sure. Thanks.

It's a double sided knife system that allows you to quickly and easily either turn them over or replace them or move one or more laterally to eliminate notice of a nick in a knife. They are the "standard" system on SCM/MiniMax J/Ps and on many others in the market and are great as a straight knife system. Replacements are economical and multiple types of metal are available including carbide for "really knarly" work. The gibs in the cutter head hold them in place via centrifugal force and to move or remove them, you just tap the gibs loose and slide out the knifes...carefully so you don't cut your hands/arms to shreds, of course. :) I personally have really enjoyed having the Tersa system in my J/P.

[Bob Potter]

Ralph, just curious as to what brand of combo you got and how you like it. You can PM. me if you like.
Thanks Bob

[Mick Simon]

I went from a 6" Jet straight knife jointer and DeWalt 735, also straight knife, to a Hammer A3-41. Love it, should have done it years ago. The 12" would have been fine, but wasn't in stock and I haven't regretted going with the 16" at all. I think you should reconsider the long term investment of the Silent Power head. It's really quiet and leaves a beautiful surface.

[Dan Friedrichs]

Despite the Felder e-shop's e-commerce-like appearance, I think they are a company where sales are primarily run through a sales rep (even when I've bought a blade or something on the e-shop, my rep has called to check). So I wouldn't rely on the e-shop pricing - email the sales people and get a quote.

[Derek Cohen]

I have the Hammer A3-31 with silent (helix) head, digital gauge and mobility kit. Do not buy anything less! It will cost you more in the end. For a start, Felder do not offer the silent heads as a replacement. It is done by the factory at the outset, or not at all. You could get an aftermarket head, but I doubt it will be the same quality as the Felder/Hammer. The head is really a thing of beauty (performance wise).

I love the carbide inserts. I work with very abrasive and hard Australian timber, and just turned the 4-sided heads to the second side recently after 3 years of use. Chip a corner, and just turn one insert. Takes a few minutes only. The digital gauge makes for amazing precision and accuracy. You can repeat a thickness from an earlier time within a whisker. And this set up is s-i-l-e-n-t ... you could be planing and have a conversation in a normal way alongside the machine.

Yes, the add-ons are extra. Save up .. be patient. It will be worth it.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Brian Behrens]

I also have the Jet JJP-12. I like everything about it, except the set up for making the jointer tables coplanar. I spent about 12 hours playing with it with a Veritas straight edge and feeler gauges. It's still not perfect. It is the most convoluted process you can imagine. It is the Achilles heel of this machine. You move one adjustment bolt .001" and it affects all 4 points on the table. Then you lock the table down and you never get the same position. If I'm doing some important jointing I have to reverify the tables every time.

However, it does work well when it's dialed in. Changing from jointer to planer takes me 30 seconds if I take my time. The planer leaves no snipe. Dust collection is excellent with my Clearvue cyclone. I have the straight knives, and the finish right off the machine is excellent. I don't use highly figured woods though. If I was starting over I would like to have separate units, but I got a good deal on this machine used. I might get a standalone jointer and keep the Jet as a planer and for when I need to joint anything over 8".

If you are lucky and get one that is set up properly from the factory, trust me - do not try to adjust the tables. Setting the straight knives is easy with the One way gauge. I looked into changing mine to helical head, there is something else that needs to be done to slow down the feed rate, and the cutterhead is over $800.

[Erik Loza]

Personally, I think the Minimax FS30 is the best built machine in this class but know there are lots of happy Hammer owners out there. My suggestions, use or not as you will...

-I'd rather have a Tersa head than a helical on a home shop machine.
-If you're going to buy a Minimax, deal only with Sam Blasco.
-Regardless of when this or that show or e-shop special ended, if you call with your credit card in hand, your rep probably WILL find you a deal. Both SCM and Felder are sales-driven companies, after all.

Best of luck in your search

Erik

[Rod Sheridan]

If you are in the US, you should not have to pay VAT...we don't have VAT here.


He must be in the "English" site, meaning the Great Britain site, they have VAT.

The OP needs to go to the US site for Felder.......................Rod.

[Albert Lee]

I had 2 JP combo so far.

My previous JP Combo is a Robland with Tersa cutterblock.
My current JP Combo is Felder AD951 with Silentpower cutterblock.

If you are going to spend money to buy machines, only spend once. I prefer to have SCM JP combo to sit in my workshop but at the time of purchase SCM has no JP combo in the entire Oceania, arrival of earliest shipment is February 2019, therefore I endup with Felder.

Dont waste time with anything less, its either spiral cutter block or Tersa.

[Mike Wilkins]

I would suggest saving your pennies and going for the segmented cutter head on the Hammer J/P machines. I just got a A341 and the surface is so smooth that I am considering selling my dual drum sander. I got the sander to smooth the surfaces left by my old machine, a low cost knock-off of the Laguna J/P machines.
And you eliminate the hassle of setting straight knives after each change.

[Greg Parrish]

I would suggest saving your pennies and going for the segmented cutter head on the Hammer J/P machines. I just got a A341 and the surface is so smooth that I am considering selling my dual drum sander. I got the sander to smooth the surfaces left by my old machine, a low cost knock-off of the Laguna J/P machines.
And you eliminate the hassle of setting straight knives after each change.

Hadn't thought about that but I literally just got a supermax 19-36 drum sander last month. Something to consider but don’t want to jump too quick on that one. I can see uses for the drum sander on items the planer couldn’t do as well like thin or small items.

[David Kumm]

When you go Tersa you want the machine to have a chipbreaker and pressure bar on the planer. If the machine does not have those, an insert head is preferable. A straight knife head can leave a great finish ( no knife or insert completely avoids sanding ) but the machine needs a better build than one with an insert head. I have both and like the insert for my light duty finish planer but Tersa for the big planer. I'd also look closely at how the tables are hinged and the design to keep them in adjustment. The head becomes irrelevant if you have issues with the table settings. Dave

[Derek Arita]

Just my .2$. Don't get me wrong...I now really like my MM FS30 Smart J/P, which is a 12". I have a small garage shop and the space savings is great. Switching over from J to P is not really a big deal, as I try to do all my jointing first, then planing. Here's the thing...for years, I dealt with the tables not being flat. It was pretty unreliable as you can imagine. All MM did for me was to refer me to a professional machine adjuster, which did little good. I finally had to spend $800 to have my FS30 tables ground flat. Now, the machine works as it should have, years and $800 later.
Pick the machine manufacturer with the best after-sale Customer Service. Chances are, at some point, you'll need it, no matter the machine.

[Albert Lee]

I would suggest saving your pennies and going for the segmented cutter head on the Hammer J/P machines. I just got a A341 and the surface is so smooth that I am considering selling my dual drum sander. I got the sander to smooth the surfaces left by my old machine, a low cost knock-off of the Laguna J/P machines.
And you eliminate the hassle of setting straight knives after each change.

I agree, the finish on the AD951 Silent cutter block had me thinking of selling my SCM 43" wide belt sander. I just need a quick sand with palm sander then its all good.

[Greg Parrish]

First step in that direction. Listed my like new powermatic 54A with shelix head for sale on CL. If I can get it sold for a good price then I’ll list my DW735 with shelix. Figure the planer will sell quicker.

am I reading correctly in the online manual that the A3-31 and A3-41 are 16A max load 230V motors? So a 20A 230V circuit is good?

[Jim Becker]

You should check with the Felder/Hammer folks to confirm the electrical requirements for the machine(s). Don't make assumptions... ;)

[Rod Sheridan]

First step in that direction. Listed my like new powermatic 54A with shelix head for sale on CL. If I can get it sold for a good price then I’ll list my DW735 with shelix. Figure the planer will sell quicker.

am I reading correctly in the online manual that the A3-31 and A3-41 are 16A max load 230V motors? So a 20A 230V circuit is good?

Hi, as Jim said, check with Felder.

I live in Canada so the requirements were different when I bought mine. Mine was limited to a 20 ampere maximum circuit by Canadian rules at that time. (Mine actually is on a 15 ampere circuit).

Check with Felder for requirements in the USA.............Rod.

[Greg Parrish]

Will do. Thanks.

[Mark Carlson]

I went with a 30 amp circuit and 10 gauge wire.


First step in that direction. Listed my like new powermatic 54A with shelix head for sale on CL. If I can get it sold for a good price then I’ll list my DW735 with shelix. Figure the planer will sell quicker.

am I reading correctly in the online manual that the A3-31 and A3-41 are 16A max load 230V motors? So a 20A 230V circuit is good?

[Greg Parrish]

After looking at and thinking about the cost on the A3-31 some more ($5,350 shipped and tax with mobile kit and wheel/gauge) I’m back thinking about separates. Would mean a need to move my layout accordingly but I think with getting rid of my 6’ tool chest recently and deciding to get rid of my huge miter station, I will be freeing up a lot of space. The idea of not having to flip the machine back and forth is appealing. Plus I could start with the larger jointer once mine sells and then a larger planer. Thinking maybe an 8” parallelogram jointer and 15”, 16” or maybe 20” planer. The more I think about the 12” jointer the more I’m not sure I’ll actually need that much width very often. Still thinking it through but am thinking the separates might be a better route to stick with. As you can probably tell, I’m torn. The cost on the A3 gives me a moment of pause to think through 2 bites equaling same price or more vs the single bite of the A3.

[Jim Becker]

Changeover takes about a minute and baring a "brain fart", you will not be doing it very often because you'll plan your milling accordingly...flatten everything first and from there it's all thicknessing.

[Albert Lee]

I never owned a mitre station and I am semi production... I did once had a double mitre saw, but thats not a mitre station.

If you have space and the budget then definitely separate the JP combo. I dont have the space so I have to settle with a combo.

If you go separate you could buy an used 630mm 25" plane + 10" jointer, if you have the power and the extraction. the 630mm planer will probably be an overkill but it will only be matter of time before it is too small.

[Greg Parrish]

No power or space for a 25” planer. After looking at nice big jointers like an Oliver 10”, I’m back thinking I don’t have space for a big jointer and big planer. Even with shedding some stuff and clearing floor space. It means a 12” combo probably makes most sense. Hate making choices like this. Ugh.

[Chris Fournier]

You mention VAT...are you "up north"?? That can factor into folks' recommendations, too.

VAT is UK. HST is Canadian.

[Chris Fournier]

Just my .2$. Don't get me wrong...I now really like my MM FS30 Smart J/P, which is a 12". I have a small garage shop and the space savings is great. Switching over from J to P is not really a big deal, as I try to do all my jointing first, then planing. Here's the thing...for years, I dealt with the tables not being flat. It was pretty unreliable as you can imagine. All MM did for me was to refer me to a professional machine adjuster, which did little good. I finally had to spend $800 to have my FS30 tables ground flat. Now, the machine works as it should have, years and $800 later.
Pick the machine manufacturer with the best after-sale Customer Service. Chances are, at some point, you'll need it, no matter the machine.

That stinks, I'm sorry to hear of your problems. However my FS30 was flawless. And I beat it like a rented mule...

[Albert Lee]

No power or space for a 25” planer. After looking at nice big jointers like an Oliver 10”, I’m back thinking I don’t have space for a big jointer and big planer. Even with shedding some stuff and clearing floor space. It means a 12” combo probably makes most sense. Hate making choices like this. Ugh.

Dont forget to check the footprint of the combo...

my combo measures 1100mm itself, but I need at least 250mm behind the machine so when it flipped up in planer mode, there is space for the guard. effectively the front face of my 20" combo is 1400mm away from the wall. I was planning for it to be hard against the wall, if space is premium, this gap is really a waste of space...

391609

[Clint Baxter]

I went with a 30 amp circuit and 10 gauge wire.

I did the same for mine. Can always use the circuit for another tool that might have a higher power requirement

Clint

[Jacob Mac]

I did the same for mine. Can always use the circuit for another tool that might have a higher power requirement

Clint

Like a Minimax MM16 :)

[Greg Parrish]

Dont forget to check the footprint of the combo...

my combo measures 1100mm itself, but I need at least 250mm behind the machine so when it flipped up in planer mode, there is space for the guard. effectively the front face of my 20" combo is 1400mm away from the wall. I was planning for it to be hard against the wall, if space is premium, this gap is really a waste of space...

391609

Good point. Who makes a 20” combo?

im not in a huge hurry to decide since I have working 6” jointer and 13” dewalt planer, both with shelix heads. I listed my jointer on the higher end price wise since it’s like new and has the shelix. If/when it sells then I’ll take another step. I am still working through a space layout change up so next up will be either selling or dismantling my miter station. Gotta decide which route is best and if I have a use for the materials to justify recycling them. Slowly I’ll get my floor space opened up more which will allow more options if I decide on separates.

[Rod Sheridan]

Good point. Who makes a 20” combo?

.
Hi Greg, Felder make a couple, here's one.

https://www.felder-group.com/us-us/products/jointer-planersjointersplaners/planer-thicknesser-dual-51.html

They also make the AD951

Regards, Rod.

[Greg Parrish]

Oh wow. Not even going to look up the price on that monster.

Had and a bite on my jointer and planer but felt the price was too low. I Made a counter offer but no commitment yet. I’m not going to get serious about making my ultimate machine decision until my current ones sell. Don’t want to commit on the new one and put myself into a position of needing to sell the current ones.

[Greg Parrish]

How did the German made Grizzly G0660X 16” combo machine compare to the Hammer?

http://www.grizzly.com/products/16-Jointer-Planer/G0660X

http://cdn0.grizzly.com/specsheets/g0660x_ds.pdf

[Jim Becker]

I don't recall much mention of the Grizz combo, if at all. It's also listed as discontinued on that link you provided.

[Greg Parrish]

Yes it is. It’s an IXES Plana 7 apparently in grizzly paint. Grizzly has their last one, floor demo, for sale. Just wondering if it was a good machine. Apparently has Tersa style leitz blades.

[Rod Sheridan]

Yes it is. It’s an IXES Plana 7 apparently in grizzly paint. Grizzly has their last one, floor demo, for sale. Just wondering if it was a good machine. Apparently has Tersa style leitz blades.

Hi Greg, when I read the spec's it doesn't like a Tersa knife, it sounds like a double edged pinhole type to me.

Of course that doesn't mean that I'm reading it correctly:D...........Regards, Rod.

[Greg Parrish]

Thanks. It must not have much of a following in the USA as I can’t find much info or reviews on it via google. Just though it seemed like a lot of machine for the price. Although if it isn’t the Tersa setup, the 16” hammer isn’t much more with straight blades.

[Greg Parrish]

So if I went separates, will a 16” planer feel like much of an upgrade (other than power wise)? There appear to be some nice 16” machines like the laguna sheartec model. The 20” make a big price jump.

[Derek Cohen]

After looking at and thinking about the cost on the A3-31 some more ($5,350 shipped and tax with mobile kit and wheel/gauge) I’m back thinking about separates. Would mean a need to move my layout accordingly but I think with getting rid of my 6’ tool chest recently and deciding to get rid of my huge miter station, I will be freeing up a lot of space. The idea of not having to flip the machine back and forth is appealing. Plus I could start with the larger jointer once mine sells and then a larger planer. Thinking maybe an 8” parallelogram jointer and 15”, 16” or maybe 20” planer. The more I think about the 12” jointer the more I’m not sure I’ll actually need that much width very often. Still thinking it through but am thinking the separates might be a better route to stick with. As you can probably tell, I’m torn. The cost on the A3 gives me a moment of pause to think through 2 bites equaling same price or more vs the single bite of the A3.

I wonder if others have a Rule of Thumb when sizing machines? Mine is that the resaw capacity of a bandsaw needs to be able to accomodate the width of the jointer, and vice versa. There is not much point in resawing to a limit of 8" because the jointer is only 8" wide. For this reason, the wider the jointer, the better.

That is the value of a combo J/P for me. It is not just that it saves space - if certainly does for me in my double garage - but that I can get the maximum jointer width for my buck. Thicknessing/planing a 12" width (I have the A3-31) has not limited me in any way as I use handplanes for finishing anyway.

Greg, what I am emphasing is that a combo machine gets you a wider jointer, where separates may not. Your work practice may be quite different to mine, and you may build designs or pieces that involve narrower widths. These will dictate what you need by way of sizing machines.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[David Zaret]

martin/griggio makes a 630mm (~24") j/p combo, i have one. it's a beast. it has 4 straight tersa knives on a 6" head, with an option for a byrd-style head. personally, i wouldn't trade sharp tersas for anything, they cut beautifully. ... another variable for your consideration.

[Greg Parrish]

UPDATE

Well, I’ve joined the Felder family. After lots of back and forth, and a good bit of anguish, I threw out the anchor and stuck with a decision. Hammer A3-31 with silent power head, mobility kit and aluminum wheel with digital gauge in inches is in que.

While I really would love a 20” planer, what I’m after now is space savings and more capacity and power overall from my 6” jointer and lunchbox planer. Looking forward to reducing my footprint further and one day buying/building a proper bench to add to my shop. With a bench I think I’ll have every tool but a Mortimer that has been on my future plan list. Long ways from retirement so I’m hoping to get a lot of usage from these machines over the coming decades.

[Jim Becker]

Congratulations! That's a great choice and I think you're going to enjoy what the machine brings to your shop and capabilities.

[Greg Parrish]

Congratulations! That's a great choice and I think you're going to enjoy what the machine brings to your shop and capabilities.

Thanks Jim. I’m slowly growing with my shop, both equipment wise and my own ability wise. This will be my nicest piece of equipment next to the restored 1972 PM66. I’m sure this will be nicer but I really think highly of my old iron. No more major items this year but one day may look to update the grizzly drill press.

[Bryan Lisowski]

Greg, good decision. You mentioned a mortiser in your earlier response. The hammer J/P have an optional mortiser available. You may want to check it out and that may benefit your space saving mission.

[Rod Sheridan]

[QUOTE=Greg Parrish;2841417]UPDATE

Well, I’ve joined the Felder family. After lots of back and forth, and a good bit of anguish, I threw out the anchor and stuck with a decision. Hammer A3-31 with silent power head, mobility kit and aluminum wheel with digital gauge in inches is in que.

[QUOTE]

Excellent news Greg, except for that wonky gauge in Imperial :D

[Greg Parrish]

Thanks guys. Don’t need it yet but I’ll check out that Mortiser attachment versus the powermatic bench top approach.

Darn metric system. Think half my tools flip flop between the standard (imperial) and metric sized parts and pieces. I think the old land rovers used to use British Imperial or something like that which meant a whole different tool set as well. LOL. Oh well. My brain is wired for US Standard/Imperial.

[Greg Parrish]

Out of curiosity, do the shelix cutters fit on the hammer head? Just curious as I have some extras that would be handy if they interchange.

[Jeff Ranck]

I've followed the thread with interest as I'm thinking of a similar purchase - either Hammer or SMC. So help me understand how to contact Sam Blasco to discuss SMC machines. Anyone folks would recommend for a Hammer rep?

[Jim Becker]

I've followed the thread with interest as I'm thinking of a similar purchase - either Hammer or SMC. So help me understand how to contact Sam Blasco to discuss SMC machines. Anyone folks would recommend for a Hammer rep?

Sam Blasco
sam.blasco@scmgroup.com (sblasco@scmgroup.com)
512-931-1962 (tel:512-931-1962) (shop)
512-796-3036 (tel:512-796-3036) (mobile)
866-216-2166 (main office/parts/tech services)

[Greg Parrish]

I've followed the thread with interest as I'm thinking of a similar purchase - either Hammer or SMC. So help me understand how to contact Sam Blasco to discuss SMC machines. Anyone folks would recommend for a Hammer rep?

There is a Florida rep but when I called I didn’t get an answer. Called the main number to ask a few questions and ended up working with this rep out of Delaware. So far a very good experience.



Tim Derr


Sales Representative





FELDER GROUP USA


2 Lukens Drive, Suite 300 (https://sawmillcreek.org/x-apple-data-detectors://1/1)


New Castle DE 19720 (https://sawmillcreek.org/x-apple-data-detectors://1/1)


https://sawmillcreek.org/blob:https://sawmillcreek.org/8754dd43-6ea2-49f9-a714-8cc239074bea
+1 866-792-5288 ext. 225 (tel:+1%20866-792-5288;225)


t.derr@felder-group.com (t.derr@felder-group.com)

[Jim Becker]

I agree with calling someone at Felder direct in Delaware to discuss their offerings rather than dealing with someone outlying.

[Bill Adamsen]

-I'd rather have a Tersa head than a helical on a home shop machine.
Erik

Erik ... love to hear your list of why.

I have a Wigo head (similar to but not interchangeable with Tersa) and find it the best planer head I've ever used. It doesn't have the price advantage or range of available knives (different metals) of the Tersa. But the knives are fast and easy to replace and self setting. They give a fantastic cut. New HSS knives are exceptionally sharp and give an extremely good surface on most woods. Biggest downside is that they are loud. I am amazed at how competitively priced Tersa knives are. Machines engineered to use Tersa (knives sliding out the end of the head) would seem pretty hard to beat from a price/performance and operational (knife changeout) perspective.

[David Kumm]

Bill, isn't Wigo the Leitz version of Tersa. It has a different profile but Leitz is second to none in terms of quality blades and sharpening. Dave

[Clint Baxter]

Out of curiosity, do the shelix cutters fit on the hammer head? Just curious as I have some extras that would be handy if they interchange.

I ended up running a piece of wood through the planer with a screw in it and chipped several of the cutters. IIRC, the spar Shelix I had are sized differently and that’s when I ordered some replacements from the Felder E-Shop.

Now I just need to repurpose those Shelix cutters. Or give them to the individual that ended up with my Byrd equipped DW735.

Clint

[Bill Adamsen]

Bill, isn't Wigo the Leitz version of Tersa. It has a different profile but Leitz is second to none in terms of quality blades and sharpening. Dave
Dave yes it is. Not interchangeable, but similar in concept. From a distance the profile appears the same. But Tersa has other advantages too. With more installed base, the Teresa offers many different knives at significantly better pricing. I’m just curious about how Erik views the value proposition.

[David Kumm]

Kind of like Beta vs VHS ( dating me ). I've got Tersa on my SAC planer and a Byrd on my Delta DC33. For 90% of the work I prefer the Tersa but the Byrd is good for a planer that doesn't have a chipbreaker or pressure bar. hope the Knapp is holding up for you. Great build compared to current machinery. Dave

[Jeff Ranck]

Thanks for Sam's contact info and the info on the Folder folks!

[Greg Parrish]

Apparently someone called and ordered an A3-41 and referenced my post here. The felder rep called me to thank me personally Wednesday. Very nice touch. Whoever it was I’m envious of the extra 4” capacity but happy the posts might have helped someone else out too.


On another note my Powermatic 54A with shelix head sold. Getting picked up tomorrow or Monday, so just need to get my DW735 listed and sold next.

And the Felder field rep emailed this morning that they should have everything processed on my order Monday when people get back from IWF and they can get my A3-31 shipped out this coming week. Whoop, whoop. :)

[Julie Moriarty]

Good for you, Greg! I'm working on getting the final quote before ordering. It must be like Christmas over there.

[Greg Parrish]

Good for you, Greg! I'm working on getting the final quote before ordering. It must be like Christmas over there.

Thanks. I looked at the Tersa minimax quite a bit. Watched a ton of videos comparing it to the hammer. Ultimately decided the hammer was a better package for me and in my neighborhood garage shop the noise reduction of the segmented cutter was important. I’m sure both are great machines though if you went that way.

[Greg Parrish]

Received the Hammer A3-31. Must say I’m very happy to see the Torx head screws in the crate. Made the disassembly easy. Will figure out how to get it off the pallet and put the wheel kit on tomorrow.

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[Rod Sheridan]

Received the Hammer A3-31. Must say I’m very happy to see the Tory head screws in the crate. Made the disassembly easy. Will figure out how to get it off the pallet and put the wheel kit on tomorrow.

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Very nice Greg, I swear the guys in the shipping department are paid by the screw and staple:-)

I normally roll it off using some rollers and putting it on blocks if I don't have a pallet jack. Felder have a good video on unpacking and assembling the machine.............Rod.

[Jim Becker]

Congratulations! That was a fast ship, indeed.

Try to work out a way to "combine" removal from the pallet and installing the mobility setup if you can since the pallet has the unit up off the floor and gives you access to the tool's bottom.

[Julie Moriarty]

Congrats, Greg! Looks like you'll be having a lot of fun in the very near future. Hope you have plenty of wood lying around. There's visions of you turning them into shavings dancing in my head. ;)

[Dan Friedrichs]

Congrats, Greg! Save those screws - they're GRK screws that cost ~$0.10/ea, and you'll find plenty of uses for them! :)

[Ben Rivel]

Awesome! Congrats Greg! Mine is coming any day now and Im super excited!

[Greg Parrish]

Thanks guys.


So my pallet is different than the the one in the Felder video. Much taller and narrower. How the heck can I safely get this thing off here without a forklift? Any ideas?

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[Julie Moriarty]

In the Felder video, they built a ramp. But the pallet wasn't made for Florida storm surges.

My plans are to put the JP on the mobile base (I went with the Portamate 3500) and roll it off. So the ramp will have to have both a small incline and be sturdy. But you don't have the mobile kit yet, right?

[Greg Parrish]

In the Felder video, they built a ramp. But the pallet wasn't made for Florida storm surges.

My plans are to put the JP on the mobile base (I went with the Portamate 3500) and roll it off. So the ramp will have to have both a small incline and be sturdy. But you don't have the mobile kit yet, right?

I do have the mobility kit but it mounts to the back of the machine and not the sides. The pallet at 9” high and the sheer weight of this thing make me apprehensive to just try to slide or roll it off. To use a pallet jack it will have to be a narrow model based on the measurements and they are not easy to come by without a hefty cost and truck freight shipping. Even with it I’d have to build up the side of the crate for the left fork to have something to roll on. I thought about buying a harbor freight engine hoist but that just creates something else to have to store, even folded up.

i can slide the unit side to side on the pallet, but really don’t know how to lift when I can’t use the wings, other than a pallet jack or engine hoist. At this point, Im thinking the safest bet may be the engine hoist though.

[Nick Decker]

Greg, have you checked on renting an engine hoist?

[Greg Parrish]

Not yet. I can buy a harbor freight version pretty cheap but I’m still exploring where to safely strap it without damage up top where the straps would wrap around on their way to the hoist/hook. Also looking into a laminated beam to maybe slide it off the pallet gradually. Six 2x4’s will fit on end undear the bottom opening.

[Julie Moriarty]

When we've lifted heavy items on the job and needed to wing the straps away to clear something above, we use 2x or 4x blocks to push the straps out. In your case, I'm sure you want the lifting straps to clear the jointer table, if you lift with an engine hoist. You can probably rent one and save the cost of buying.

But if you do use slings and blocks, put cardboard between the blocks and painted surfaces and make sure the blocks can't slip. Once you start lifting you'll see the direction the blocks want to go. I've used tie-wire, electrical wire and anything else I can find on the jobsite to keep the load steady.

On the more dangerous side, I've been there when guys have pushed the load off the blocks like yours is on and watched it come down with a bang. Maybe not too bad with a transformer but not good for a precision machine.

If there's a rental place that rents Johnson bars (Home Depot also sells them), you could use them to prop up one end, replace the 4x with a 2x, and on down, slowly lower the machine to a manageable height. Johnson bars come in handy for all sorts of things and easy to store.

[Julie Moriarty]

You might also consider the air bag type lift. That would get you down pretty safely.

EDIT:
Or a toe jack
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/719Ozx7ErcL._SY355_.jpg

[Albert Lee]

I do have the mobility kit but it mounts to the back of the machine and not the sides. The pallet at 9” high and the sheer weight of this thing make me apprehensive to just try to slide or roll it off. To use a pallet jack it will have to be a narrow model based on the measurements and they are not easy to come by without a hefty cost and truck freight shipping. Even with it I’d have to build up the side of the crate for the left fork to have something to roll on. I thought about buying a harbor freight engine hoist but that just creates something else to have to store, even folded up.

i can slide the unit side to side on the pallet, but really don’t know how to lift when I can’t use the wings, other than a pallet jack or engine hoist. At this point, Im thinking the safest bet may be the engine hoist though.

An engine hoist is one of the best option, or a gantry crane, or you could install a fixed gantry crane if you have heavy item to move all the time...

you maybe able to rent something like this at where you are? various sizes for various jobs.

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[Jim Becker]

To use a hoist or a crane, the straps go UNDER the base of the machine so that you are supporting it from below. I'm surprised that's not marked on the cabinet.

Does rotating the unit 90º on the pallet allow you to in any way install your mobility solution?

[Greg Parrish]

The mobility kit from Felder is the axle with two wheels on the back and a lever T-bar with wheels on a bracket in front. A tripod approach that wouldn’t be very stable coming down a ramp I fear.

Im debating building a gradual ramp to try to slide down versus buying a fold up engine hoist. With coupon I can buy one for almost as cheap as a rental. Sure could use a friend with a fork lift handy. LOL

[Jim Becker]

Maybe build a gradual temporary ramp and use pieces of pipe to roll the machine off long-ways since the mobility kit isn't going to work well for that, IMHO, too, with that back to front setup. Weird that they did that, IMHO. It would be easy to place pieces of pipe under the unit using a lever to lift it from the end. You'll want a helper or two for the "dismount", however, as it requires more than two hands to do it safely and SLOWLY.

[Greg Parrish]

I called in the big guns. My dad is going to drive down tomorrow to be the second set of hands, technical advisor, etc. He is bringing some various items to help in the venture. Will report back once it’s on the ground. And yes, it does seem silly to have to call in Dad when your my age. Good chance to spend some time with him though. LOL

[Julie Moriarty]

Take pictures! :D

[Mick Simon]

I didn't have any use for an engine hoist other than getting my A3-41 off the pallet, so I opted for the folding HF motorcycle ramp and bolted it to the pallet. It's long enough to have a slow incline so there's little chance the JP will get away from you as it might with a longer ramp. I use the ramp quite a bit loading stuff into my pickup.

[Greg Parrish]

I didn't have any use for an engine hoist other than getting my A3-41 off the pallet, so I opted for the folding HF motorcycle ramp and bolted it to the pallet. It's long enough to have a slow incline so there's little chance the JP will get away from you as it might with a longer ramp. I use the ramp quite a bit loading stuff into my pickup.

Like this one? https://www.harborfreight.com/super-wide-tri-fold-loading-ramp-90018.html

[Albert Lee]

Like this one? https://www.harborfreight.com/super-wide-tri-fold-loading-ramp-90018.html

if all failed, get a pallet mover. they are a lot cheaper than forklift/crane. but very handy to have.

also build a timber ramp. can be done very quickly and cheapily (I did mine in under 5 min)

I moved my 2000lb AD951 off the pallet with a pallet mover

[Greg Parrish]

I didn't have any use for an engine hoist other than getting my A3-41 off the pallet, so I opted for the folding HF motorcycle ramp and bolted it to the pallet. It's long enough to have a slow incline so there's little chance the JP will get away from you as it might with a longer ramp. I use the ramp quite a bit loading stuff into my pickup.

Shared your idea with Dad and he already had his aluminum lawnmower loading ramp in the truck. Rated for 1300 lbs and similar to the HF motorcycle ramp in design. :)

[Julie Moriarty]

Maybe there needs to be a thread about how to get heavy machinery off the pallet and onto the floor. I'll be watching how you and your dad do this, Greg.

[Jacob Mac]

I put appliance skids under my JP and pushed it to the edge of the pallet. I carefully lifted one side to the floor. Then I lifted the side that was still on the pallet up and my wife pulled the pallet away. Pretty easy to do by myself with the skids.

[Warren Lake]

your approach might be different for different machines. I normally drill bases then chain up and use whatever to lift from a forklift to a skid steer to a big honking John Deer. Last saw at 1,200 lbs slid up maple beams then down again used a block and tackle to control how it moved as doing it by myself at both ends., Sliding it down the beams it was just as important to use the block and tackle to control it and slowly move it down the beam.

[Greg Parrish]

Yes, if I were doing this at our farm, where my Dad lives, I’d have used the backhoe/front end loader with the forks on it and been done with this. But in my residential situation with limited heavy lifting/moving equipment I’m just trying to approach with the most feasible and safe manner to get it down the 9” drop. If the pallet didn’t have the 5x5 posts under it, we would be having a different discussion since I could probably lower it 4” without tipping. But at 9” my fear is damaging the machine more than anything else.

If it had lifting rings or points, I would be less concerned and would have considered the engine hoist more so, but lots of reading kept leading to comments about concern over the cabinet strength and potential effect to the jointer bed alignment. Same comments referred to the use of 4 individual castors causing issues with alignment on uneven floors.

Anyway, it is an expensive machine so I’m taking my time to figure out what I think is the best way to finesse it off the pallet without damage or issues. Hope to have it on the ground later this afternoon and will report back with what method we end up using. If nothing else it may help Julie who may be in a similar predicament since she is in a residential location sort of like me. :)

Besides I need to get it pinned down so when I order a K3 next year I’m ready for it too. LOL

[Julie Moriarty]

If nothing else it may help Julie who may be in a similar predicament since she is in a residential location sort of like me. :)
And I'm checking this thread constantly...

I've managed heavy equipment at work, but there's always manpower and moving & lifting aids. I did manage to get a 300 lb bandsaw up four stairs and down into the basement by myself. I used a come along and block and tackle to help. But this beast is a whole different animal. It will be interesting, to say the least.

[Warren Lake]

I do the drill and chain at the bottom often as it covers all things on a trailer with a forklift off a trailer with a skid steer or giant John Deer and more so I can change elevations like over 50" straight up or down with no stress to the machine. I dont think you need to see that ive shown it before

this is the last one first one in a while I didnt drill as not doing the 50 inch height difference. This was loaded by me and unloaded by me. If someone looks at this and thinks you dont need the chain to lower it down thats fools stuff at 1,300 lbs there is enough weight there to squash a small tank. On the hard maple beams that were waxed at one point stuff can stick or it can fly, the night I unloaded it started to rain and it was not my friend in a few ways. Stuff can rust right in front of your eyes.

Oh and the blocking up wasnt needed there as the maple was so strong at least going off beam distance was longer going up so more needed, poorly done it will just push away so needs to have an angle and be secured if you do blocking up.

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[Greg Parrish]

Mine is is on the ground now. Here is what we did.

Took an 8’ to 10’ long 4x6 beam which is 3.5” thick. We sandwiched it with two 2x4 boards of similar length to create a beam roughly 3.5” x 8.5” x 10’. Pull staples and bolt heads out of way and wiggle machine to edge of crate. Slide beam under the machine and out the other side. Take a short cut piece of 2x4 and screw to top of beam where it comes through other side to keep beam from sliding back under machine. Now start to wiggle the whole thing off the edge of the pallet and the beam will allow it to slowly come off and start to taper down to the floor. Have helper stabilize while you wiggle and pull. Once the beam end starts to get about 1.5’ from the edge of pallet sink a screw or two through it into the pallet so it won’t slide off. At this point, keep sliding until you get the side on the floor. At this point you can either keep sliding till other side touches or unscrew beam from pallet and start to pull beam out backwards. Either method allows that end to taper slowly to floor. I had to pull beam as we ran out of forward space.

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[Jim Becker]

"The eagle has landed!" And now on to the cleaning and setting up and...making a mess with it frequently thereafter. :) :D

[Julie Moriarty]

Wooohoooo!

Those pictures take me back to landing transformers.

Nice job, Greg... and dad. :)

[Greg Parrish]

Thanks. Managed to get the wheels on and the mobility kit installed. For some reason they removed the fence and rail for shipping so I’ve loosely attached them for the moment. Need to get them properly affixed and then open the beds to remove the packing material on the planer. Little more to go and then time to get a cord and plug wired up. Regardless, it’s mobile at least now.

Couple of points. Once it’s on the ground, a tiny little racing jack from harbor freight fits under and nicely lifts the side to install feet and wheels. Second, the instructions and manuals are a mess. My eyes go fuzzy just trying to look at them. They do have English at least but the languages are all mixed making it difficult to follow some times. And the videos, while really great, don’t include all items. For example, their video is on a lower, wider pallet. Their machine already has the fence and fence bracket attached when unwrapped.

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[Greg Parrish]

Okay, what the heck. In looking at power cord/plug/circuit requirements, there are multiple things contradicting each other in the paperwork. One page with no model number mentioned was in a plastic bag attached to the wiring indicating a 30amp circuit. The manual has a page attached to the wiring diagram indicating a max circuit breaker of 20 amp and it references the model. The wiring diagram has info that references the overload protection at 19A (14A). And the plate on the back of the machine says 19.8A but if you calculate the 3 KW at 230V it equals 13A.

So what gives and what info do I trust for choosing my wiring/plug and breaker? I have a 20 amp circuit in place that I planned to use but need to know what to do.

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[Julie Moriarty]

Earlier today I asked Rod about the electrical requirements so I could pick up the materials to install the new run. But when I looked at the kW I figured a 2 pole, 20A breaker should suffice and the run would be #12.

From the pics you posted, I will wire it as outlined above. Sometimes machinery specs will give you a max rating for the breaker but I didn't see that from your pics. Unless someone from Felder pipes in and corrects me, this is a 20A, 2 pole feed.

FWIW, breakers should be loaded to a max of 80% of stated rating. That puts this machine on the bubble for a 15A circuit.

[Greg Parrish]

Earlier today I asked Rod about the electrical requirements so I could pick up the materials to install the new run. But when I looked at the kW I figured a 2 pole, 20A breaker should suffice and the run would be #12.

From the pics you posted, I will wire it as outlined above. Sometimes machinery specs will give you a max rating for the breaker but I didn't see that from your pics. Unless someone from Felder pipes in and corrects me, this is a 20A, 2 pole feed.

FWIW, breakers should be loaded to a max of 80% of stated rating. That puts this machine on the bubble for a 15A circuit.


So so you agree that the 3KW motor (3,000) divided by 230volts is an amperage load of 13.04A, which is what you are saying is about 80% of a 15A circuit breaker? That said, a 20A plug with 12ga cord on a 20A circuit is the way to go?

im hoping so, and hoping so, as I didn’t want to have to upgrade wiring until I get ready for a sliding table saw at some point. When that happens I’ll need to upgrade the wire to my sub panel to pick up the higher 30A requirements of many of the sliders.

[Julie Moriarty]

Greg, unless there's something in your paperwork that advises otherwise, this, to me, is a 20A, 2P circuit fed with #12 all day long. IIRC, Rod said he feeds his JP with a 15A circuit.

When I ran the numbers on my panel, I get 237v across the two legs. Divide that into the 3kW load of the A3 31 and it comes up as 12.66A. 80% of a 15A breaker is 12A. So you bump it up to 20A and you're good.

The voltage coming to your house will vary. In Illinois ComEd had to guarantee no more than a 7% fluctuation in voltage. I don't know what FPL is required to produce but if you provide a 20A circuit, you should be covered.

And remember, you may never hit that 3k load. But that doesn't mean you can't exceed it. :rolleyes:

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Julie

My Hammer N4400 bandsaw is connected and runs on 20 amps. The A3-31 J/P runs on 15 amps, as does the K3 slider. These connections, and the power they draw at start up and continuously, were checked by a qualified electrician, who is also a professional woodworker. It was interesting that the A3-31 appeared to draw about 10 amps at startup. Here in Oz we use 220-240 V for everything.

Regardless of these connections, the cardinal rule when starting these machines is to hold down the starter button until the motor is running. Never start them by poking the start button briefly - that will lead to a burned out capacitor.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Julie Moriarty]

Hi Derek,

Rod said he runs his JP on a 15A breaker, too. The second picture on Greg's post above shows 20A maximum circuit protection. The box isn't checked but that's the only option. To me that says Felder is good with a 20A breaker. So it wouldn't hurt to run the JP off a 20A circuit. And when you consider loading breakers to a max of 80% rated capacity, well, I like the 20A circuit protection.

When I get mine set up, I'll put an amp probe to it while the machine is under load. It will be interesting to see how close it comes to the 3kW rating.

[Dan Friedrichs]

A hint for you two Floridians:

The mobility kit looks nice and shiny, now, but those stop collars are not stainless. Mine rusted, and that bothers my neurotic brain :) Spray some sort of rust preventative on them to keep them looking sharp.

[Greg Parrish]

Thanks for the tip Dan.


Last night, looking at at the electrical, the 12” cord dangling out of the switch is about useless for a U.S. install in a residential setting. But the manuals say that opening the switch boxes will void the warranty, so no way to easily swap the cord itself without risking warranty issues. As I didn’t want to deal with an extension cord connection, I decided to mount a junction box and run my own longer cord to it. Pictures should be self explanatory. Opened motor cover door and verified nothing behind this area so I used self tap screws to mount it. As FYI, I used electrical tape over the wire nuts as extra security since it is all stranded wire. Just need to pick up a blank cover this weekend to put over the box.

At at this point, it is basically ready to use. I cleaned tables and coated with some T9 Boeshield. Need to clean them down and maybe paste wax them one day but for now the T9 and my dehumidifier garage should keep me ok.

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[Rod Sheridan]

Hi, the 20A rating was for Canada where the machine was limited to use on a 20 ampere circuit capable of delivering 5,000 Amperes short circuit current or less.

In the USA you could use a 30 ampere circuit if you wanted.

Regards, Rod.

P.S. I I don't have an electrical code for your area however 12 AWG flexible cord would be rated at 25 or 30 amperes, depending upon the insulation rating, just perfect for the machine, whether it's on a 20 or 30 ampere circuit.

[Julie Moriarty]

A hint for you two Floridians:

The mobility kit looks nice and shiny, now, but those stop collars are not stainless. Mine rusted, and that bothers my neurotic brain :) Spray some sort of rust preventative on them to keep them looking sharp.

We're on a canal. I learned very quickly you can't leave anything unprotected here. In Chicago, I hardly gave rust a thought. Here, it's ever pervasive. I bought some Felder Metal Glanz and Super Gleit, to take care of the new baby.

[Julie Moriarty]

Last night, looking at at the electrical, the 12” cord dangling out of the switch is about useless for a U.S. install in a residential setting. But the manuals say that opening the switch boxes will void the warranty...
They give you 12" of cord and tell you you can't replace it with a longer cord without voiding the warranty? I guess they expect you to put a cord end on their 12" tail and use an extension cord from there. Why would they void the warranty for doing it right?

[Jim Becker]

Last night, looking at at the electrical, the 12” cord dangling out of the switch is about useless for a U.S. install in a residential setting.

Well, it would have been perfect for me because I typically install pig-tails like that on machines with a twist lock so I can completely remove the cord if I want or need to move the machine around and to provide a very positive disconnect without having to "get to " the actual outlet which sometimes can be in a less convenient place in my shop. :) Yes, this costs me a little more because of the extra termination gear, but over time, it's been quite useful as my shop has evolved. I also make the "extension" cord to exact length for the situation and it's not overly expensive if I need a different length cord if the machine has to move.

[Greg Parrish]

Understood. I figured it was tied to their industrial background with Felder machines where they are thinking it gets forklifted into position, wiring run right to the machine and it never moves. For me, I prefer to have a 15’ (ish) cord on each machine so I can position without worry of moving the reception each time. Let’s me roll a machine out and use in different spots if needed too. Similar to your idea Jim but I make the disconnect at the receptical

Rod, on mine, I’m running 12/3 stranded wire heavy gauge contractor style extension cord. Just cut it to length and terminate as needed. I have a ton of them I’ve been cutting down for this and custom length extension cords over the past few years. Sometimes I take the factory ends, like from this particular cord, and terminate a new 115v end on it because it had a triple female plug molded in on the other end. With 12” of wire it makes a great multi plug when needed.

On a totally separate note, I happened upon a clearance priced deal at the Borg today. A cordless makita tracksaw kit with saw, two batteries, twin charger and sustainer style storage boxes for 50% off. Ordered some track from amazon and look forward to finally joining the track saw club. Realize it isn’t a festool but it costs way, way less too. The reviews seem pretty favorable.

[Julie Moriarty]

the warranty
I was just going through the warranty docs from the Felder website. All I could find was

1.1. Definition of Warranty
• A warranty enters into effect automatically, because it is prescribed by statute and involves strict liability under contracts undertaken for compensation (sales contract, contract for work and services, ...) on the part of the seller or manufacturer for the fact that the goods or services are without defect at the time of delivery. The warranty covers all parts (Exceptions cf. 1.3.) as well as the costs of work, shipment and travel. Liability for any consequential damages is excluded.

2.3. Private end consumers outside the EU
• Statutory warranty in accordance with regional specifications.

3.2. HAMMER
Only the statutory warranty provisions apply

Pretty vague. Was the warranty that came with you JP more specific?

[Brian Holcombe]

Greg, those wire clamps are meant for romex. Not machine cords. The type for cords cinches down differently;

https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/img_1303.jpg

Also, electrical boxes specifically made for equipment available and are inexpensive. They are made to be a sealed enclosure where dust and fluids cannot enter.

A jobber box is really not the right thing for what you’re doing in my opinion.

[Jim Becker]

Greg, the primary reason I like the pigtails with custom length cords (which could be the same length for multiple machines as in your scenario and even just one for multiple electrically compatible machines) is that I don't have to actually deal with the cord when moving the machine. It doesn't get in the way; or get knocked onto the floor in mid-move, etc. :) Both methods are absolutely valid!

[Greg Parrish]

Understood. I used what I had available. I’ll look to see if I can find the other box and clamp type but honestly in my shop there is very little chance of liquid getting into the box. And the remaining openings are so small not much dust getting in either. But I understand your point about what is technically correct. Are these boxes and clamps avail at local hardware? Have never looked for them.

[Brian Holcombe]

Greg, mainly I use McMaster Carr for these types of things. They have their catalog organized well enough that it is very easy to find what you need. They also provide technical drawings which are handy.

[Dan Friedrichs]

But the manuals say that opening the switch boxes will void the warranty,

It may say that, but I don't think it's true:
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/04/11/601582169/warranty-void-if-removed-as-it-turns-out-feds-say-those-warnings-are-illegal

[Julie Moriarty]

Understood. I used what I had available. I’ll look to see if I can find the other box and clamp type but honestly in my shop there is very little chance of liquid getting into the box. And the remaining openings are so small not much dust getting in either. But I understand your point about what is technically correct. Are these boxes and clamps avail at local hardware? Have never looked for them.
Years ago I installed a junction box on the underside of one of the table extensions on my table saw. In that box are two switches, one for the TS and one for the router that's mounted in a table wing. On the back of that box is another box with a duplex receptacle, half is fed from each switch. I ran an extension cord out of there using a take-all connector like the one you used. No problems.

While the type of cord grip shown above is the Cadillac of cord grips, it isn't necessary for a home workshop. The only time we were required to use grommeted, compression-type cord grips is when the conditions were wet or oily.

[Greg Parrish]

Anyone know the scoop on the size of the port on the Hammer? I went to the trouble to track down 5” hose and a 6” to 5” reducer for my duct work. That said, the 5” hose is too big for the machine. 4” is too small.

Is is this a metric port or something? Do I need some sort of 5” to metric adapter at the machine? Thanks.

[Jim Becker]

It's most likely 120mm...there are lots of threads about adapting. I use a rubber Fernco sewer connector on mine. It slips OVER the port on the machine and the 5" hose slips OVER the other side of the rubber connector and uses a hose clamp to keep it together.

[Greg Parrish]

It's most likely 120mm...there are lots of threads about adapting. I use a rubber Fernco sewer connector on mine. It slips OVER the port on the machine and the 5" hose slips OVER the other side of the rubber connector and uses a hose clamp to keep it together.

Funny, I was just finding and reading some of your posts from 2008 about this same thing. LOL. I’ll have to go look for a fernco connector at the hardware store. Will be the easiest route I think. Thx.

[Jim Becker]

Yes, the rubber Fernco thing-a-ma-jigs are quick and easy if you can get the right one from your 'borg or hardware store. With my J/P, the two functions have separate hoods, so being able to move the hose quickly and easily is a nice thing. I have one on my slider, too, but that one never moves...it was just a convenient way to adapt to the machine.

[Julie Moriarty]

Anyone know the scoop on the size of the port on the Hammer? I went to the trouble to track down 5” hose and a 6” to 5” reducer for my duct work. That said, the 5” hose is too big for the machine. 4” is too small.

Is is this a metric port or something? Do I need some sort of 5” to metric adapter at the machine? Thanks.

I thought Rod said the OD on the 120mm port measured 4.75", the same size of the ID of the 5" hose I picked up. What measurement are you getting on the OD of the JP port?

[Greg Parrish]

I thought Rod said the OD on the 120mm port measured 4.75", the same size of the ID of the 5" hose I picked up. What measurement are you getting on the OD of the JP port?

By crude tape measure measurement they both measure 4.75” but by fit the hose is too loose to stay on. I’m probably going to apply a wrap of thin rubber tape and then clamp the hose to that. Same approach I had to use on the other end of this hose. But I need to make sure I can easily transition it without removal if I do that. Or go with a fernco adapter. Can’t back to it till later this week though.

[Brian Holcombe]

The hoses I have won't go onto a 120mm port, they just fall off in use, I used a Fernco fitting just as Jim does.

[Julie Moriarty]

By crude tape measure measurement they both measure 4.75” but by fit the hose is too loose to stay on. I’m probably going to apply a wrap of thin rubber tape and then clamp the hose to that. Same approach I had to use on the other end of this hose. But I need to make sure I can easily transition it without removal if I do that. Or go with a fernco adapter. Can’t back to it till later this week though.

I just checked the hose to 5" metal duct and it fits very tightly. Then I tried the hose on the 5" blast gate, which has an ID of 4.75", and it's a bit loose but the OD of the blast gate has a small flare out. Most of my DC hose connections tie into blast gates and there has been some issues about them falling off. The band clamp has to be very tight. Maybe it's time to start looking for that Fernco adapter...

[Greg Parrish]

I just checked the hose to 5" metal duct and it fits very tightly. Then I tried the hose on the 5" blast gate, which has an ID of 4.75", and it's a bit loose but the OD of the blast gate has a small flare out. Most of my DC hose connections tie into blast gates and there has been some issues about them falling off. The band clamp has to be very tight. Maybe it's time to start looking for that Fernco adapter...

I have 6” Lee valley gates. I have been pinning all of my plastic duct connections with small screws and using two bolts to attach it to my gates. My hose fit snuggly on a 6” to 5” metal reducer from the local hardware store but that adapter was loose on my gate. A single wrap of double sided sticky rubber trim tape and my two pinning bolts got a nice tight connection. But the port on the machine is plastic so I’m hesitant to clamp too hard there since it has to flop back and forth. The fernco adapter is prob way to go.

[Julie Moriarty]

The hoses I have won't go onto a 120mm port, they just fall off in use, I used a Fernco fitting just as Jim does.
Do you have the Fernco number on that coupling? 1003-44 is the only one I could find with a 4.75" ID but the other end is 5.32", too large for 5" hose. 1051-44 (https://www.s1eonline.com/sites/default/files/dimensional-drawings/pdf/1051-44_0.pdf) looks like it might work with some modifications but it reduces the ID down to 4.4"

Fernco Flexible Couplings page (https://www.fernco.com/products/flexible-couplings/stock-couplings)

[Brian Holcombe]

Fernco 1056-44 is what I used on both Sam and Jim's recommendation. It works perfectly.

[Jim Becker]

I just checked the hose to 5" metal duct and it fits very tightly. Then I tried the hose on the 5" blast gate, which has an ID of 4.75", and it's a bit loose but the OD of the blast gate has a small flare out. Most of my DC hose connections tie into blast gates and there has been some issues about them falling off. The band clamp has to be very tight. Maybe it's time to start looking for that Fernco adapter...
I never connect a hose directly to the blast gate...there's always at least a short piece of straight duct after the gate for the hose to get clamped to. The angled nature of many of the gates is better supported by sealant and pop rivets to stay snug and the hose is then tight on the duct.

[Bill McNiel]

The hoses I have won't go onto a 120mm port, they just fall off in use, I used a Fernco fitting just as Jim does.

Oneida has a 120mm x 5" adapter (https://www.oneida-air.com/inventoryd.asp?item_no=SCOLLECT54).

[Jim Becker]

Oneida has a 120mm x 5" adapter (https://www.oneida-air.com/inventoryd.asp?item_no=SCOLLECT54).
I bought one of those a long time ago, but ended up selling it to another 'Creeker in favor of the simple Fernco rubber doo-jobbie. They are great for "permanent" connections, but if I recall clearly, they were not a great solution for something that needs to move as does my J/P connection because of having separate hoods for each function. They are a nice, heavy product, however.

[Greg Parrish]

Okay, finally got to point of trying out my new A3-31 tonight. After getting the fence rail secured properly, I tried the jointer function. I’m getting some snipe type lines but it appears to be technique related based on trying to keep consisten pressure on the work piece while jointing. Was using a short 20” or so long piece of 6” wide maple for trial. im guessing this is just a technique issue I need to work on.


however, once jointed I tried to plane the other face and I’m getting serious snipe on both ends of the board. Not sure how this could be technique and I’m not sure what to do. Realizing some new tools require alignment but I must say I’m disappointed to say the least to get 4 to 5 inches of heavy snipe on both ends of the board. Haven’t read any comments about anyone else having this issue and in fact most claim perfect planes with no snipe on these machines.
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Lastly, I ordered one of the extensions, which was not on during snipe issue, and I can’t get it level with the planer bed. The closest I can get it creates the sides level and the center rib not level. It appears to be a nice machined extrusion of aluminum but The darn thing is not level across its width. How the heck can you use an extension on a jointer or planer that isn’t level? Am I missing something?
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ugh, I’m tired and exasperated given how much money I dropped on this thing.

[Julie Moriarty]

Call Tim. When I asked him about the disclaimer on how some machines may not be delivered properly calibrated, he said to call anytime and that they have videos they can send or you can talk to a tech who will walk you through the process of fixing it. You are the mechanic, they are the instructors. As long as you have the tools, they will help you fix any problem. At least that's how I understood it when I talked to Tim.

[Greg Parrish]

Just finished going through the manual and I think I might have figured out the snipe. Have to go try it. Looks like I have to clamp the table in place after each adjustment maybe? The dewalt didn’t require that so I’m sure I’m missing something here.

On the extension, I’m starting to wonder if the center crown doesn’t matter since referencing is done right at the cutter block. If that’s the case I’ll have to level based on the center crown and have the two sides be ever so slightly lower.

[Greg Parrish]

Okay, so the clamping lever improved the snipe but it’s not gone. Now I’m wondering if the snipe from before is continuing to transfer during thicknessing.

Will go back in a moment and start with a new board on the jointer and will then run that through the thicknesser to see if snipe is gone now that I’ve figured out the clamping lever has to be tightened during use.

Boy oh boy. Do 4 post type planners require the clamp or lock during planing. The dewalt didn’t have this feature. Well, if it did, I never used it. LOL

[Julie Moriarty]

There was no lock on the 735. Dewalt says it's self locking. I can add, "...well sometimes."

[Greg Parrish]

Made one more discovery. I think anyway.

the extrusion is slightly crowned in the middle. It has a clamp underneath that once tightened seems to pull the center of the extrusion flat. Sort of like a spring clamp of sorts.

So, I’ll need to go back and make a slight adjustment now that I see how it’s working so it will pull itself flat and in line with the planer bed when clamped in place.

If if anyone else noticed this or if this isn’t what should be happening please let me know. I’m frustrated with it as the instructions are about useless for anything other than just studying the diagram and interpreting function from that diagram on your own.

[Bill McNiel]

Greg,
My experience, all of 5 days, with the jointer function on my A3 41 is that one doesn't need to press down on the feed side very much at all. The machine seems to suck the material down on its own, not sure if this is a result of the cutter head or dust collection but it is definately different than my previous jointer.

Second issue regards the height of the cutter head relative to the outfeed table. I have yet to find any Felder/Hammer info concerning the Silent Head, as opposed to the knife head. At least SMC provided some semblance of instruction in this post (https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?239876-Hammer-A331-Outfeed-table-adjustment). Blessings on the members here.

I would love any input from Creekers who have a Hammer as to the most desirable height, so far I have settled on having the Silent Head higher than the "Owners Manual" shows for knives.

As for snipe with the planner, I think it might be a reflection of the jointing process. I personally have not experienced any issues with planning as long as the jointing was done right.

Don't hesitate to contact me, i have been screwing around with this machine for a week and am "happy" to pass along whatever I have learned. The Owners Manual SUCKS!!!!

Regards - Bill

[Brian Holcombe]

Fix the snipe with the jointer first. Just a guess but likely the outfeed table us slightly low. I would check to see if the tables are parallel, then adjust the outfeed to be about .001” lower than the peak of the cutter. I did this on my jointer to eliminate a very very minor snipe.

After that, see if it snipes on the planer. Likely it is simply a minor adjustment being needed.

[Greg Parrish]

Thanks Bill. Hearing others first experiences help.

Thanks Brian I’ll look at the jointer beds tomorrow and check with the straight edge for parallel. Then I’ll check the outfeed height. Will report back after I do that. Hopefully the table is easy to adjust if needed.

Thanks again.

[Brian Holcombe]

It's a good thing to really dig into the machine when you get it, you learn considerably more than if you just run it and everything is spot on. It also makes it considerably less nerve wracking to break the seal on factory settings.

My J/P was very accurate from the factory, but I couldn't help but tweak it a bit and the result was a minor improvement. You should be able to get the planer to work without snipe without extensions. The extensions are good for really long pieces of wood, but not really needed on short stuff.

I'm not surprised that the extrusions are not flat, I've yet to get a totally flat extrusion of any make including Aigner.

[Julie Moriarty]

So you spend $5K on a machine because it's engineered so well and when you go to use it, it performs poorly? Makes me wonder if I can refuse delivery tomorrow.

This whole thing about Felder covering their butt with all the documents you have to sign and then saying you're on your own to fix it if there are problems when you go to use it is so wrong. I've taken delivery of pricey tools on the job and they worked right out of the box. If they didn't, contractors wouldn't buy them. Why is this lack of quality control and failure to accept responsibility for delivering a properly working product accepted in woodworking? I just don't get it.

[Brian Holcombe]

Both minimax machines I bought new were perfectly in spec.
The Felder mortiser, I assume, was still set as it left the factory as I can’t imagine anyone purposefully setting it up as it was. I would double check every setting on that machine and bring them all within spec myself.

You can gripe about this stuff all you want, I do plenty, but if you want to get working then you’re best off just to deal with the problem. The result is that you know the machine very well afterward.

There is good reason why so many people on this board have machinist type checking tools, it just comes with the territory of working with machinery.

[Julie Moriarty]

Kind of like an expensive European sports car being dropped off in your driveway and the driver saying, "If you have good mechanical skills, the right tools and the time and patience to get it running right, you're gonna love this car."

[Greg Parrish]

Ha, it reminds me of an Al Bundy episode where the neighbors are telling Peggy they should get a European luxury car like theirs. She goes to talk about the high end leather, the sound of the engine, the smell, etc. then pulls out a stack of pictures they just received in the mail from the shop it’s been in the last 8 months. Goes on to say, here are pictures of the guys crating it up to go back to Germany for repairs. It must be very exotic problem since they can’t fix it here. LOL

anyway, I’m not whining so much as just being dissappointed that it isn’t ready to work out of the box. I really needed it to be an easy, turn it on and get to work process. I understand most new machines take some fiddling to install accessories and initial parts but it sucks to have to do any major alignment adjustments straight off the line.

And I do understand that a new 12” parallelogram jointer and 15” 4 post planer might have had to have the same type stuff done had I gone that route. I’m basing this on experience with the dewalt and a Powermatic 6” jointer that worked perfect right out of the box for about 1/3 the cost.

Ill get get back to mine tonight to check bed alignment and go from there.

[Julie Moriarty]

I’m basing this on experience with the dewalt and a Powermatic 6” jointer that worked perfect right out of the box for about 1/3 the cost.
Exactly. If they can get it right (with the PM being shipped from China) why can't these fancy European manufacturers do the same? Apparently, they don't see the need.

[glenn bradley]

Kind of like an expensive European sports car being dropped off in your driveway and the driver saying, "If you have good mechanical skills, the right tools and the time and patience to get it running right, you're gonna love this car."

Oh, you mean like a Harley? Just kidding . . . It is jolting to find that machines are machines regardless of price. some are inherently poor and others quite good but, an assembly and QA process still basically drive the customers perceptions on receipt. We see good and bad stories on all tiers of the tool world on here.

[glenn bradley]

I’ve figured out the clamping lever has to be tightened during use. Boy oh boy. Do 4 post type planners require the clamp or lock during planing. The dewalt didn’t have this feature. Well, if it did, I never used it. LOL

Just some clarity; in the lunchbox planer world the elevation design of the 735 does not require a lock. Other small planers are notorious for their snipe with some exceptions. My DW734 had a carriage lock and I was able to use it snipe-free for years. A friend with a Delta Shopmaster (read Snipemaster) could never get past it and just gave up and wasted the material as a matter of course.

[Rod Sheridan]

Okay, so the clamping lever improved the snipe but it’s not gone. Now I’m wondering if the snipe from before is continuing to transfer during thicknessing.

Will go back in a moment and start with a new board on the jointer and will then run that through the thicknesser to see if snipe is gone now that I’ve figured out the clamping lever has to be tightened during use.

Boy oh boy. Do 4 post type planners require the clamp or lock during planing. The dewalt didn’t have this feature. Well, if it did, I never used it. LOL

Hi my A3 has zero snipe without the lock being used..........Rod.

[Greg Parrish]

Hi my A3 has zero snipe without the lock being used..........Rod.


So so how did I get so lucky? What’s the trick I’m missing?

[Rod Sheridan]

I doubt if you're missing anything Greg.

How large are the pieces you're planing?

Is the reference surface flat or does it have snipe?

Snipe is normally caused by too little or too much roller pressure. Is the snipe at both ends of the board?

Thanks, Rod.

[Greg Parrish]

Both ends. The piece was about 20” long, 6” wide and 3/4” thick. I edge jointer and face jointed the board first and then ran through planer for the other face. It came out with snipe on both ends.

[Dan Friedrichs]

Greg, like Rod, I also have no snipe on my C3-31 (and I don't use the center post lock).

Have you tried planing a board that already had one flat side (ie - not jointing it, first)?

If you're getting snipe on the planer, there are really 3 possible causes:

1) Your reference surface isn't flat (you need to figure out what's going on with the jointer)

2) Your evaluation of what constitutes "snipe free" is mis-calibrated. I can't tell from your earlier pictures, but how "deep" does the snipe measure? Some lunchbox planers can easily take 1/8" from snipe. The geometry of a planer is always going to be such that the pressure on the board changes once the board goes from being under 2 feed rollers to being under 1 - that's unavoidable. So, in your case, does the change in pressure result in a change in cut that is problematic? Expecting it to be "optically" perfect is unreasonable, and probably impossible. Is the amount of snipe actually bothersome, or is it just an visual imperfection that will sand out in your normal finishing?

3) Something is wrong with the feedroller pressure. This seems least likely.

[Julie Moriarty]

Both ends. The piece was about 20” long, 6” wide and 3/4” thick. I edge jointer and face jointed the board first and then ran through planer for the other face. It came out with snipe on both ends.

Greg, why not put the onus on Felder and call Tim and let him know the problems you're having? They need to know. Tim told me they have videos and articles and maybe you can actually get a decent owner's manual out of them. If you do call them, let us know how they respond and with what.

[Greg Parrish]

Greg, why not put the onus on Felder and call Tim and let him know the problems you're having? They need to know. Tim told me they have videos and articles and maybe you can actually get a decent owner's manual out of them. If you do call them, let us know how they respond and with what.


May do that but need to do some more testing sort of speak tonight to be able to make an informed intelligent call for help.

[Clint Baxter]

Sorry to hear of your issues. My A3-31 was pretty much plug and play as far as jointing and planing went. The biggest issue I had with it was getting the extension table mounting bracket in plane with my jointer outfeed table. It is good now though. (Now if I can just figure out how to move that extension table to the outfeed of the planer table, without dismantling something, I’d be golden.)

Ive found that holding up on the end of a piece going through the planer can sometimes eliminate snipe from my work piece depending on the material being planed. And doing the same has caused snipe on other materials.

Clint

[Julie Moriarty]

Now if I can just figure out how to move that extension table to the outfeed of the planer table, without dismantling something, I’d be golden.
Buy extra mounting brackets?

[Ben Rivel]

Buy extra mounting brackets?
Dont think thats an option for the outfeed side of the planer as theyd interfere with the height adjustment wheel IIRC.

[Julie Moriarty]

Dont think thats an option for the outfeed side of the planer as theyd interfere with the height adjustment wheel IIRC.

They show extension tables on the outfeed side of the planer. The wheel is on the infeed side.

[Clint Baxter]

Dont think thats an option for the outfeed side of the planer as theyd interfere with the height adjustment wheel IIRC.

Infeed end has the height adjustment wheel, so that doesn’t affect it.

And I do have a mounting bracket installed there. You can’t slide it in from the end, however, like you do for the jointer table. And the locking/clamp tab stops it from dropping in from the top. The extension table has a clamping bar on the bottom that has a self locking nut installed on one end and a clamp lever in the middle. Unless BOTH are removed, the bar will not move enough for the table to be installed on the bracket. Kind of defeats the purpose of the repositionable table it’s supposed to be. You could reposition it from side to side on the planer outfeed, but it ain’t coming back off til you take a wrench to it. Guess I’ll have to get another extension table if I want to use one there, and on the jointer as well.

Hmm. I have been looking at that longer extension table that Hammer has available. I just need to “justify” it.
Or maybe the Aigner extension table might be a better choice. If I got it, I could swap it between my shaper, my bandsaw, and the A3-31 by just adding mounting brackets to each. Decisions, decisions.

Clint

[Julie Moriarty]

Infeed end has the height adjustment wheel, so that doesn’t affect it.

And I do have a mounting bracket installed there. You can’t slide it in from the end, however, like you do for the jointer table. And the locking/clamp tab stops it from dropping in from the top. The extension table has a clamping bar on the bottom that has a self locking nut installed on one end and a clamp lever in the middle. Unless BOTH are removed, the bar will not move enough for the table to be installed on the bracket. Kind of defeats the purpose of the repositionable table it’s supposed to be. You could reposition it from side to side on the planer outfeed, but it ain’t coming back off til you take a wrench to it. Guess I’ll have to get another extension table if I want to use one there, and on the jointer as well.

Hmm. I have been looking at that longer extension table that Hammer has available. I just need to “justify” it.

Clint

So how are you supposed to "conveniently" move the extension from jointer to planer? I saw a video on installing that bracket and was surprised to see how much slop they left in the mounting holes on the jointer table. You'd think they would be precision drilled rather than making the owner reset it over and over. I think we need to have a talk with Felder's engineers.

[Greg Parrish]

So how are you supposed to "conveniently" move the extension from jointer to planer? I saw a video on installing that bracket and was surprised to see how much slop they left in the mounting holes on the jointer table. You'd think they would be precision drilled rather than making the owner reset it over and over. I think we need to have a talk with Felder's engineers.

You cant unless you don’t clamp it in place. As mentioned above the bracket on the planer outfeed is inset so that you can’t slip something over the ends. The way it works it has a bolt that provides adjustable leverage, and a large metal clamp assembly that extends under the rail. It won’t drop over the rail without unbolting that lower clamp which would be a pain.

due to other chores I won’t be able to get back to the A3 tonight. Will have to give it another go tomorrow night on checking out the tables and alignment with my straight edge and oneway gauge.

[Rod Sheridan]

So how are you supposed to "conveniently" move the extension from jointer to planer? I saw a video on installing that bracket and was surprised to see how much slop they left in the mounting holes on the jointer table. You'd think they would be precision drilled rather than making the owner reset it over and over. I think we need to have a talk with Felder's engineers.

The mounting rails are all set at an identical level below the table, if I remember correctly it's 17mm??? All my machines are set that way.

To remove the extension table from the planer outfeed, I use the following method

1) get rid of the flat washer that goes between the kip lever and the clamping plate.
2) to install the table, approach the mounting rail with the free end of the table angled down
3) once the top of the table is over the mounting bar, lift the table level and lock it in position

To remove it, unscrew the kip lever all the way and angle the free end of the table down to remove it.

Regards, Rod.

[Rod Sheridan]

Greg, I can remove my extension tabl without unbolting, I responded in the other thread of Julie's with my method.........Rod.

[Clint Baxter]

Just went out and tried Rod’s method. I had to back off the self-locking nut a bit before the table would go on, but that nut only keeps the locking bar from falling off. It doesn’t affect how the locking bar clamps the table into position. I ended up unscrewing the kip lever for both installing and removing the table.

Thanks Rod. Little bit of a nuisance, but much better than removing and reinstalling the self-locking unteach time

Clint

[Warren Lake]

how about a photo or two of how that fits on for those of us that dont have machines from Arnolds homeland

[Mick Simon]

Sorry to hear of your initial disappointment. I'm retired now, but spent my entire career in the woodworking machinery business, from hobbyist level to multi-million dollar automated equipment. I don't want this to come across as me trying to justify my Hammer purchase, just my experience with woodworking machines in general. Initial compliance to specs problems are far from unique to Hammer. It's been my experience that ANY machine purchase is somewhat hit or miss in terms of delivered compliance to specs. How the machine was handled in shipping can greatly affect initial performance. The old "Was it made on a Monday or a Friday?" comes into play, as do lots of other considerations. Price rarely does in my experience. It should, but it rarely does. I've set up machines that cost $500 that worked better out of the box than their competitor's $5000 machine many, many times. The price difference is more often seen a year or 30 years after it's been set up. I can honestly say that the only two machines I've ever set up that performed at or above specs straight out of the box were my 735 and my Sawstop PCS. I've heard the same from too many other SS owners to think it's just a fluke. More manufacturers should pay attention to how they're doing things to bring their own delivery performance up to par. And the negative comments about Hammer's manuals, or lack of, are fully warranted. My first experience with a Felder machine was in 1986 and their manuals are no better now than they were then. Again, they should take a page from SS - I've never seen better manuals for a machine. Off my soapbox now.

My A3-41 experience has been much like Clint's. On arrival my near side jointer infeed table was very slightly lower than the rear side, which was set correctly. I can't even blame that on Felder since it took a hard, grimace-inducing bang when the ramp collapsed getting it over the threshold to my shop. 5 minutes spent barely raising the two castle bolts on either side of the locking bracket for the infeed table fixed the issue. Now, every time I use the jointer I smile to myself and wonder why I waiting so long to make the investment.

I've had very little issues with snipe from the planer, and what I have had have been taken care of by locking the column. I also had a 735 before the Hammer. I loved it - except for the noise. I'll take the trade off of having to lock the column in trade for getting rid of the noise. I say having to lock the column, but I only lock it on my last pass or two, when I'm dialing in the precise thickness. I've also found the planer to be really, really precise with respects to adjustments. The wheel gauge puts me spot on the thickness.

My guess is that you'll look back a year from now and make similar comments to those considering a Hammer machine. I know it's frustrating now, but I suspect you'll come to love the machine.

[Andrew Hughes]

Mick your post is very good. You took the words right out of my mouth.
Also would like to add that I spend the best part of each morning setting up for my day. No rushing or hurrying or hangovers. It’s not easy to make the same thing perfectly twice errors creep in it part of nature. I couldn’t imagine trying to make a machine that would satisfy a perfectionist. Like myself :)

[Julie Moriarty]

I couldn’t imagine trying to make a machine that would satisfy a perfectionist. Like myself :)
But I'm sure you'd try. :)

[David Kumm]

It might be worthwhile to join or visit the Felder Owners Group. Lots of posts regarding jointer planer set up and issues. Most seem fixable. A few are the result of tables not being flat and those are difficult. If you have tables flat within a few thou you can deal with most issues. If they have spots approaching .010 out of flat you need to contact the company as the fix is tough. Check the tables and rule out those problems ( advice to anyone - not necessarily this op ). Dave

[Greg Parrish]

Thanks guys. Between the day job and the home and family duties I’ve not had a chance to get back into it this week. But the weekend is just around the corner so I’ll tackle it then for sure.

[Mick Simon]

I've done several searches for the Felder Owners Group. Seems to be defunct.

[David Kumm]

Look at the Yahoo groups. There were posts today about an A3-31 with table issues. Dave

[Julie Moriarty]

So so how did I get so lucky? What’s the trick I’m missing?

While I'm not done testing the planer, the jointer part of mine has passed all the tests. And then I thought of the problems you're having, I began to wonder if maybe your JP was "set down a little too hard" at some point. Could have been on the way here from the factory or after it arrived in the States. Lots of handling in there.

When I was getting mine down from pallet #1, I was very careful not to create any kind of situation where the machine could drop even a fraction of an inch. Same with getting off the shipping pallet. I was so afraid of knocking something out of whack, because of the problems you're having, I handled the machine like a newborn baby. Just some thoughts...

[Greg Parrish]

So far only had a chance to check two things last night. The fence is slightly off but I think it might be my rail, so I’ll need to come back and check it with my oneway gauge tonight to make sure it’s installed with proper spacing. The other is in the jointer beds. Per my straight edge, it appears to be dead flat across both sides. But when I check crisscross one direction is flat and the other has a very small high spot. Not enough to see any light. Didn’t check the feeler gauges yet for more precise measurement but given the anomaly only shows in one measurement spot I think it has to be a high spot in the cast iron as otherwise one of the two sides should be out of alignment if this were a sign of the beds being twisted out of parallel to each other. Further, using the same straight edge I get a few spots that are high down the length of each bed when testing across the bed. Either it is t quite machined flat or they are being bent/warped ever so slightly under tension some how. Given the crowned extrusion I commented on before, I’m guessing it’s in the cast iron or machining that is causing the bed to have this extremely minor crown. Will check additional items later, including planer bed flatness and outfeed to cutter parallel. Will also break out the feeler gauges for some measurements.

The fun continues.

[Brian Holcombe]

Before you drive yourself crazy, verify that your straight edge is flat.

[Greg Parrish]

Thanks guys. Between the day job and the home and family duties I’ve not had a chance to get back into it this week. But the weekend is just around the corner so I’ll tackle it then for sure.

Just getting back to the hammer J/P for the first time since this post. Not able to even clean up some boards to knock out some cutting boards. I sent a message to the Felder/hammer rep here on the forum and will call them tomorrow. Really wish they had a tech nearby that could tackle the calibration but I’m not holding my breath. It’s been a while since I purchased and uncrated this thing but work and other demands took precident. Will see what the rep has to say. Really wish my experience with this machine had been easy from the get go like so many others instead of leaving a sour taste on my first higher end, most expensive machine.

[Julie Moriarty]

Wow... I could have said the same thing, Greg. I've barely touched mine since I got it. Another project has owned me these past few months. That will end in a few weeks. Then I intend to put it to work. But as of now, I still haven't installed the digital readout. $5K just sitting in the workshop collecting dust. Never did that with any tool before.

[Curt Harms]

Wow... I could have said the same thing, Greg. I've barely touched mine since I got it. Another project has owned me these past few months. That will end in a few weeks. Then I intend to put it to work. But as of now, I still haven't installed the digital readout. $5K just sitting in the workshop collecting dust. Never did that with any tool before.

See? That's what happens when you 'retire', you get really busy :)

[Greg Parrish]

I’m tied up early this morning but plan to call them for help and guidance later today. Hopefully with their help I get this thing humming.

[Ben Rivel]

Wow... I could have said the same thing, Greg. I've barely touched mine since I got it. Another project has owned me these past few months. That will end in a few weeks. Then I intend to put it to work. But as of now, I still haven't installed the digital readout. $5K just sitting in the workshop collecting dust. Never did that with any tool before.
Eh, dont feel bad, mines been sitting on the pallet for going on a couple months now too. Life happens. Youll get around to putting it to good use. And its not like itll go bad if you dont. The point is you have the tool when you need/want it.

[Julie Moriarty]

Got a chance to give the JP a run today. Put it up against 8/4 sipo. Sure do love the finish!

[Greg Parrish]

Got a chance to give the JP a run today. Put it up against 8/4 sipo. Sure do love the finish!

Sounds great. Glad it’s working out.

Im in talks with Felder regarding mine. Spoke with Tim yesterday and someone from service today. Supposed to hear update tomorrow so I’ll wait till I know more to say anything but fingers crossed they are able to do what I’m asking to help me out. Regards.

[Julie Moriarty]

Im in talks with Felder regarding mine. Spoke with Tim yesterday and someone from service today. Supposed to hear update tomorrow so I’ll wait till I know more to say anything but fingers crossed they are able to do what I’m asking to help me out. Regards.
Hope they can take care of things, Greg. They SHOULD! I never did "the commissioning" on mine but for short pieces, so far it's working fine. Before I do any edge glue ups, I'll have to get the beds coplanar but I can't even remember where I saw how to do that. I think I'll install the digital gauge first.

Keep us posted on what Felder is doing for you.

[Greg Parrish]

Well, once I heard the quote this morning I couldn’t justify the cost for commissioning a tech for calibration, but Ben in service in DE has been great in trying to help me understand what items to tackle based on the symptoms I was having. He personally recorded 3 videos on one of their machines on site and texted them to me this morning.

So far, I think I have my jointer issue worked out by adjusting my outfeed table per his instructions. Originally I thought it was too low but turns out it was actually too high. Seeing the video of how to adjust made the written instructions I was struggling with much easier to grasp. A simple task actually now that I’ve done it.

Also got my fence as squared up as possible. I say that as my extruded aluminum fence face has a slight cup which makes perfect square impossible but it should be fine now that I’ve adjusted it as best possible. A machined cast iron would have been great but this should be fine.

Last up I’ve got to get the planer section sorted out. I popped a follow up question to Ben just now and hope to be able to get it sorted out shortly. Will be wonderful to start using this thing but I may still be giving cutting board IOU’s on Christmas.

Lastly i out 2 coats of paste wax on all three bed surfaces. Hopefully that helps keep things moving better too.

More to come. Thanks.

[Brian Holcombe]

None of these type of machines have a machined cast iron fence. Mine has a 'heavy duty' aluminum fence with a cast iron support and steel shaft and it still is flimsy compared to a fence on a stand alone jointer.

I'm assuming it has to be somewhat due to the added weight to the top. The springs have to overcome that weight and so everything added up ends up being pretty heavy.

[Derek Cohen]

Also got my fence as squared up as possible. I say that as my extruded aluminum fence face has a slight cup which makes perfect square impossible but it should be fine now that I’ve adjusted it as best possible. A machined cast iron would have been great but this should be fine.

Greg, if I examine my A3-31, the fence also has a cup somewhere along the length. It is perfectly square at the cutter head ...

https://i.postimg.cc/wxV65hwv/J6a.jpg

It has always produced a square edge. Further, I check for square, but the fence does not lose its setting after being slid back and forth many times for changes betwee the jointer and planer.

As Brian mentions, I imagine that the fence is an aluminium extrusion to keep down weight. It does occur to me that one could attach a length of MDF, or other material, to achieve a perfectly flat surface over the length, should you wish to do so.

Regads from Perth

Derek

[Greg Parrish]

Here is a question. I managed to get rid of my snipe by adding tension to my in-feed and out-feed rollers. Now the snipe is gone but I’m getting ridge lines due to the in-feed roller pressure. Is this normal or do I need to back off the tension? I obviously have one side more tensioned than the other but it’s feeding straight. Not going to mess with it until I get responses since it is dialed in to be snipe free right now. LOL

thank you.

399245

399246

[Brian Holcombe]

How much material are you taking off per cut?

[Jim Becker]

How much material are you taking off per cut?
This is an important question, Greg...if the outfeed roller is metal and serrated, there's a "minimum bite" you have to take to avoid seeing the marks. This is common with stationary type planers, Benchtop planers tend to have rubber or other composite rollers which do not mark material and you can take really thin bites with them.

[Greg Parrish]

That’s it I bet. Was only dropping .01 between passes. I have the imperial gauge so I can’t remember what measurement that equates to but it’s nt much. Probably need to take larger bites to thickness and use drum sander if thin bites are that important.

Thanks guys. Looks like I have this thing figured out now so hopefully I can knock out some cutting board pieces tomorrow. :)

[Jim Becker]

Yea, that was one of the things I had to get used to when I went from the bench-top thickness planer to the J/P. Getting to know your scale and how it equates to "reality" relative to the actual thickness coming out is important because you can't "sneak up on it" quite as easily with the larger machines due to the roller configuration. On the other side of that, they can really pull stuff through when you want to take a much larger bite, too...something that doesn't work as well with the bench-tops.

[Nick Lazz]

Id love the hammer 16” but can’t justify the cost. Was thinking I might could swing the straight blade A3-31 12” model with mobiliy kit if I sold my current machines for enough money. Are the hammer blades good? The dewalt ones sucked which prompted the shelix head.

Greg, I am seriously considering an upgrade to a 16” machine. I have an A3-31 that I would sell if you are interested, obviously depending on your location.
It does have the knives but I have never had an issue with them. They are simple to change and last a long time and have a high quality finish.
Pm if interested.

[Jim Becker]

Nick, he already owns one... ;)