Rockwell 12-14 Table Saw Value

[Dick Brown]

I have a chance to pick up a 12-14 but have no idea what the value is. Looks to be in working condition. Three phase, 5 or 7.5 motor. (can't find a info plate but it is BIG ) I have a 3 hp TEFC motor, 1 phase that I could put on it. Would that be enough motor for 12 or 14 inch blades? Thank for your input on these questions.

[David Kumm]

Depending on condition, 1000-2000 but closer to the bottom unless a really good fence, a couple of blades, miter gauge, etc. Then towards the top. Keep the motor and buy a vfd. $400-500 and you are good to go with full power and likely a very good motor. Those saws new were several times the price of a Unisaw and several times the build. They tend to sell for short money due to size and phase but well worth the top end of my range. Dave

[Tim Einwalter]

I just paid $600 for mine. It was in very good condition having been rebuilt by a prior owner. Be aware that the pulley can not be replaced for a reasonable cost. if you change the motor you will need the correct frame size (182T, 184T or 213T), shaft size and speed. I tried to replace my motor and after buying two that were incorrect, I gave up and went with a VFD. There are some 1ph input 3hp VFD's out there. 5hp is tough to find and 7.5hp is unobtainable. What I found is that you can use a 3ph input VFD and supply it with 1ph power. The VFD will need to be derated when you do this. Generally you'll lose 50% of the output, but verify this with the manufacturer. In my case I'm using a 10hp vfd that would support a 5hp motor. Now some will put a larger motor on the vfd and use it's built in limits to protect the unit. For example, they'll run a 5hp motor on a 3hp vfd or a 7.5hp motor on a 5hp vfd.

[Geoff Crimmins]

Jack Forsberg, who frequents the Canadian Woodworking forum, sells VFDs with single-phase input up to 15hp. I've never dealt with him, but I frequently hear him mentioned as the go-to guy for larger VFDs. The miter gauge slot on a Rockwell 12-14 is larger than the standard slots in 10" saws. So you'll want to either make sure the saw includes the miter gauge, or see if there's an after-market one available to fit it.

--Geoff

[David Kumm]

Jack does a good job with the vfds . Miter guage is rare and goes for about 150 as a used accessory. Dave

[Dave Cav]

How much are they asking for the saw, and what kind of shape is it in?

If it has a 5 HP 3 phase motor you can run it just fine with a TECO FM50 3 HP VFD. I've been running my saw like this for over ten years with no problem. Yes, it does derate the motor, but then again, I'm not ripping railroad ties all day long, either.

The main advantage of the 12/14 saw isn't necessarily the size of the motor. The saw was marketed to school industrial arts departments, cabinet shops and "light industrial" use, where most of the material being cut ran from sheet stock to 4/4-8/4 material. The big advantage is the size of the table, making it much easier to break down sheet goods than using a regular 10" saw. This was long before euro sliders (or tracksaws) were around.

[Rick Potter]

Two on my local Craigs List. A 12/14 for $2k, and an RE-35 with factory sliding table for $3500. Both 3 phase, and the slider looks really clean.

[Dick Brown]

Well, first off, thanks for your replies fellas. The old saw is still under a lot of stuff at the estate sale so really don't know lots about it. Can't get down and look under the motor for a tag. None showing from the little I can see from above. Has the original fence and miter gauge.Will be going after it Mon. morning. Bought a Delta 14" band saw and an OLD Delta scroll saw that must have a 24" cut all at the same time. Price was reasonable is all I will say about that. Will let you know how it all shakes out when I get it home.

[Bill Dufour]

Be aware that the pulley can not be replaced for a reasonable cost.
What is so special about that pulley? Modern Vee belts can handle 7hp with a single belt these days.
Bill D.

[Bill Dufour]

I just bought a Delta 12/14 saw last weekend. 5HP three phase motor. The motor pulley is Browning taper lock so I just bought a new internal taper portion. Old motor was a 1.00" shaft #255? frame size. I am replacing it with 2hp single phase 1+1/8 shaft.
The arbor bearings are bad and growl just by hand spinning. Looks like they tried to remove the brass bearing lock ring with hammer and punch and mangled the notches. I had to buy a adjustable hook spanner and grind it thinner to get between the fixed flange and the artbor casting. A week of penetrating oil everyday helped as well.
Next I have to make a pin face wrench to unscrew the arbor. Instead of the standard 2" pin spacing it seems to be 1+3/4" with standard 1/4" pins. I will try threading 1/4" hardened bolts in some iron channel I have around.
Bil lD.

[Chris Hachet]

I just bought a Delta 12/14 saw last weekend. 5HP three phase motor. The motor pulley is Browning taper lock so I just bought a new internal taper portion. Old motor was a 1.00" shaft #255? frame size. I am replacing it with 2hp single phase 1+1/8 shaft.
The arbor bearings are bad and growl just by hand spinning. Looks like they tried to remove the brass bearing lock ring with hammer and punch and mangled the notches. I had to buy a adjustable hook spanner and grind it thinner to get between the fixed flange and the artbor casting. A week of penetrating oil everyday helped as well.
Next I have to make a pin face wrench to unscrew the arbor. Instead of the standard 2" pin spacing it seems to be 1+3/4" with standard 1/4" pins. I will try threading 1/4" hardened bolts in some iron channel I have around.
Bil lD.

Will be interested to watch progress on this. Larger table saws sell for very short money used compared to their performance potential.

[Bill Dufour]

I paid $275 for the saw with a jet lock fence, the mitre guage and a good amount of surface rust. The side tables weigh 66 pounds each. I removed the table, in three pieces, and the motor before two strong guys could push it up a ramp into my truck.

[Marc Jeske]

Bill - Will 2 hp be enough for the big blades in thick stock ?

Seems it may be undersized and hinder saw's full potential ?

And really reduce re sale value?


Marc

[Bill Dufour]

[QUOTE=Marc Jeske;2923107]Bill - Will 2 hp be enough for the big blades in thick stock ?

Seems it may be undersized and hinder saw's full potential ?

And really reduce re sale value?

I will see if 2hp is enough. 3Hp on my unisaw is enough for home shop use. I do not care about resale value. This is a lifetime saw.
If I did not already have the 2HP motor I would be looking at 3-5Hp single phase.

[David Kumm]

I'd put a lifetime motor on a lifetime saw. If you ever need the 14" due to depth of cut, the kerf will be wide and you will want the 5 hp. 3 would be my minimum and 5 hp is preferable. I have 5 on my Rockwell and needed all of it, and 9 on my slider and needed all of it. Dave

[Bill Dufour]

I'd put a lifetime motor on a lifetime saw. If you ever need the 14" due to depth of cut, the kerf will be wide and you will want the 5 hp. 3 would be my minimum and 5 hp is preferable. I have 5 on my Rockwell and needed all of it, and 9 on my slider and needed all of it. Dave

I will install the motor with a inline plug and receptacle so changing it out later will not be too hard, if needed. This allows me to wait a few years to find a more powerful motor at a good price. I do have a 3hp motor but is only C-face mount.

[Marc Jeske]

If it is simple to do,minimal investment, ya go for it.

Can always change in future.

Marc

[Marc Jeske]

And also... you may know, but complete saw is 850 lbs.

Most remove the table and move separate from base.

Very rough ballpark ratio - Table is 300+ lbs, rest is 500 lbs.

Marc

[Bill Dufour]

Cheapest motor on ebay now is about $9.00 less then I paid for the saw. I will only use TEFC motors in the woodshop. Many folks selling big motors will not ship "local pickup only". But Ebay has no way to eliminate "local pickup only". So I have to look at each motor in my price range thenn figure out if they will ship or if they are local enough to make the trip worthwhile.. Many people are still overcharging for shipping on ebay not having figured out ebay takes a equal cut of shipping the same percentage as the price.

[Marc Jeske]

Bill - ? Local old school motor rewind, service, and new sales shop?

Of course, how little or how much you paid for the saw has no relevancy whatsoever... a totally separate said and done non revisitable issue.



Marc

[Marc Jeske]

I paid some months ago $900 for a delivered to my door 12/14 w a supposed "factory stock 5 hp 1 ph" , 52" Original old school Bies, and overarm Brett Guard in slightly above avg condition.

Includes motor cover, but sans square front door.

Only minor rust anywhere.

The Bies fence face is kinda worn through the laminate face... plan to re face.

No miter gauge.No problem.

Kinda weird... Both miter groove entrance points are rough chippedlike 45 deg chamferred rough beveled chipped open.

Still sitting on a pallet in the back corner... sounds and is stupid, but I still have yet to get in there and confirm in fact is 5 hp 1 ph.

Marc