Leveling a jointer

[Patrick Kane]

I’m expecting delivery of my 500mm jointer tomorrow, and I’ve read a few times over the years about the importance of leveling the base of wider machines. Since I really only want to move this once, what is a foul proof way of leveling the base? I keep all my heavy machines elevated on wood blocks to allow for a pallet jack to slide under.

[Warren Lake]

im just starting my saw leveling again and one thing was to scrap the shims I was using. For one thing they were large and the floor is uneven so depending on the placement they sat a bit different when they got moved around. Ive now cut shims to about the size of the feet on the machine. Metal are in .019 and Aluminum left over roofing stuff .023. before that I was using laminate and some hard board. I also went to the stabila digital level, the vials are good but antique eyes can read a digial read out easier. I want it bang on this time round.

As im doing this im thinking about vibration feet. I dont want to raise this saw too much more but in the past have had some heavy duty adjustable feet rubber on the bottom, They could be tightened so the machine would not rock or move. Not what im doing but they came to mind.

I temp levelled that jointer and it should not be too hard but the rub is thats if the jointer tables are coplaner. If there is any sag in either table then you are working to that and it would change your level results when its all true.

nother thought is if its the right height for you. sometimes its good to make a machine taller to be more comfortable to work at. Some of my machines are raised raised up at least the thickness of a 2 x 4. I cant remember but think I liked stuff a minimum of 35 1/2 or 3/4", I tried to keep heights fairly consistent.

[Andrew Hughes]

I’m not sure what a 500mm is.
I can share that my jointer was leveled and set without twist from the sashes the beds ride on. Then the tables were adjusted coplane.
Set the machine without any twist is really more important than level. Unless your shops floor is sloped like mine.

[Jamie Buxton]

500 mm?! That's a big jointer. Wouldn't it come with leveling feet? Y'know, feet that screw up or down to get all of them on the floor at the same time.

[Warren Lake]

never seen a machine come with levelling feet

[Bill Dufour]

Level is not a consideration. you only need coplaner. A jointer is short and light weight and leveling will not take out. any twist unlike a lathe. A jointer will not have proper, lathe style, leveling feet and hold down points.
I would just set it level with a carpenters level and call that good enough. No need to spend over $200 on a precision scraped level.
The main thing to watch out for is the common problem of setting the adjusters too high. Get it level then turn each adjuster down the same number of turns until one bottoms then reset them 1/2 turn higher. If you are going to level it wood is not good, use metal pads to spread the weight and prevent seasonal motions.
Bill D.
Bill D

[Rollie Kelly]

Warren, all good advice. In the past, when trying to get multiple tables co-planar, I have found construc

[jim mills]

I prefer 3 points of contact, hence the brilliance of the old 3 toe'd jointers. On a big jointer,a machinists level, along with a good straight edge is really nice to check for twisting of the beds. Get it close enough to get the bubble near center on the level.

[Rollie Kelly]

All good advice.
When I sat my jointer, which has been broken in two twice and put back together by a blind repairman, I had to put Hilti anchors in the floor as jacking and pull points. Fortunately, all machinery comes with anchoring points in the base where the machine was lagged down for shipment. These are excellent jacking points.
While you don't have to pursue the same tolerances, Keith Rucker, Tom Lipton (Oxtoolco), and Brian Block have all posted excellent how to videos on the big video sight.
Warren, having retired from the aluminum industry, I assure you aluminum is a metal.;)

[glenn bradley]

I level al my stationary machines and actually use some of their surfaces for reference. I do not try to level mobile machines. Just my two cents.

[Patrick Kane]

Perfect, i will check out youtube. I assumed i could lay down three 4x4 oak posts, shim them level, and then be good, but it looks like there is a bit more to it. Im only renting the pallet jack for the day, and i wont have a convenient means of picking the machine up once i return it. Hence why i wanted to ask you all and do it as right as i can the first time.

Is there a real problem with using wood? My floor is so awful that im screwed from the beginning if I need to be concerned about seasonal movement in a climate controlled basement. Parts of my basement floor are a good 2" lower than other parts depending on where the columns are.

Not used to the new interface, and cant figure out where the photo attachment option is. In any case, it is not a three toe base. It is the typical cabinet base seen on machines from the last 30 years, and will ultimately rest on four corners.

[John TenEyck]

For the metrically challenged, 500 mm is nearly 20". That's a big jointer to be sure. I have my 14" MiniMax on a three wheeled mobile base, and am happy for it. The machine has a typical four sided cabinet, but cares not that the mobile base only has three points of contact with the floor. My basement floor isn't flat or level but the machine tables always check flat and coplaner which is all that matters. The cabinet is stiff enough to resist twisting at least within a range that's acceptable to me.

John

[Warren Lake]

four points is fine,

I have machines on 2 x 4's off cuts that have been that way for 35 years of use and fine. The saw was a bitch I did an all nigther on level and start from scratch again. I callibrated the stabila level to be sure and finally was able to get all surfaces to .00. Level was hunting a bit at times. What happens is my floor is ruff and uneven so setting it on the masonite and laminate at first it wasnt sitting well. I cut the shims to the size of the feet on the machine. Id get it almost right put another shim in then other aspects were out or it rocked, when rocked you could not trust your measures. Simple thing but it just wasnt working. yeah on the aluminum not being metal been corrected before, I cut it with some midwest crank head snips those things work excellent. Haviing the two thickness and finer worked much better. .019 and .023 in this case.

With audio in my backgound aspects are wrong, first you want mechanical isolation for the machine so to my mind it should be sitting on some hard rubber isolation system that damps it rather than on concrete. Im going to treat some panels on the machine as well like i used to do on speaker cabinets think metal panels have a sound and I dont want to hear it its minor here. Take my General stuff, thin sheet steel bases they have a sound to them.

Id think some sort of lvelling foot that has rubber on teh bottom then doesnt move at all is ridgid as you pass mateiral and push on the machine. If you do heavier work especially on a jointer you want the biggest heaviest machine you can have. I didnt want to have the machine alot higher did have adjustable feet with rubber on one machine in the past.

On your jointer you wont have points to bolt it down. If you reach inside the base on that machine you will find metal in each corner inside, its not drilled for bolts. The SCM saw inside does have plates in there that are drilled and threaded and easy access to inside. You are just going to shim up your jointer. I would still try and make it level id just level off the outfeed table that would be fine.

If you get into it further and question the set up you can always re level it later. You will need some serious straight edge as you have around 105 inches total of tables there. I have a precision ground straight edge from high grade steel, it originally was a sheer blade before machined. It worked very well on 69"s of table on the SCM but think it would be shy if you really wanted to know on the Griggio. Then you could check the tables seperate first for flat seperately then together reading one off the other and be pretty accurate even if you could not extend major onto each table. I wouldnt worry about that at first. Check your gibs make sure they are tight and fire it up and use it see what is there

John whats metric :)

[Steve Jenkins]

In 36 years as a custom furniture maker I’ve never put a level on a machine and can’t really see why it would matter as long as it’s not so far out the wood slides off :)

[Warren Lake]

id rather work on level even for my brain to recognize it. IN this case the slider on the saw is a whole seperate thing to the saw and I was finding set up impossible with too many dynamics. When I know now the saw is dead nuts level then I can set the slider as accurate to that and a hair above. I know that wont be so easy as this bearing system and adjustments is very primitive, then on top it just plain doesnt work well in adjusting upside down little allen screws stuff mushed from past adjustments and and

I was unable to get them to work together at first and the saw was pretty close to level. I tried straight edges and more but still stuff rubbing here and there. Many of my machines are likely not level but I should take the time, the other thing if you have some machines close and at the same table height then level also makes sense if material moves from one to another. Ive had that before where one machine sits 4 feet away and is the support for cross cutting 4 x 8 s stuff like that

[Robert Hayward]

never seen a machine come with levelling feet

My Oliver 4240 has leveling feet.

[Warren Lake]

Its a good idea, been in many shops towards and yet to see one machine with levellors, for sure its not a common thing. These are some of the top shops with usually older Europeans working there likely on some or all CNC machines. some on rubber or thick mat chunks but its more about vibration. Its not common to have adjustable feet on machines or i would have seen many times by now. Its a good idea though if it can have rubber on the bottom and the system is ridgid enough that there is no movment in the machine. Did you Oliver come that way or a past owner add them, good idea either way.

this is typical to what I saw in shops if anything at all


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[Andrew Hughes]

20 inch jointer has got to be heavy. With lots of heft just in the tables no doubt it will push a twist in the frame.
My jointer has levelers that’s just weird yours doesn’t. Must be European :confused:

[Warren Lake]

it is european and machines dont come with levellors, you would be the exception that ive yet to see. I cant say what the machine frame will do I can tell you there is no flex in my SCM table saw the base is so ridgid it just raises the machine proportionally to any change you make so that speaks highly for the base at least. It surprised me how stiff it was and how strong that base is. its heavier than on the jointer under discussion here even though it is a heavier machine and more of that weight is up top

found one, didnt come that way but customer added other ones just saw the rubber pads like on the shaper


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[Andrew Hughes]

Still would like to see Patrick’s 500mm jointer maybe it’s a Martin? Just for fun here’s what the leveling bolts look like on my Oliver. They are 1 inch.

[Brian Holcombe]

I did the same as Warren, since there are no levelers on the machines.

https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/img_1106.jpg

[Warren Lake]

Brian second time round I did a better job, having thinner shims was good and likely needed thinner still, Cutting them to small size to match the foot of the machine I think a turn adjuster is better as it does fine increments. I had an issue where id shim up then either another measure was off or if you tried to rock the machijne it rocked. It seemed solid till you tried to move it up and down and could sometimes but at first had thought it was fine. Thinner shims were good smaller shims much better on my uneven floor. I didnt get at first adding another shim and them shuffling around a bit I was not getting the exact same result when I was adding shims

I looked at a number of shop photos big ones 50 -80 employees size wise that had gone out of business and half the machines had nothing. I did see a fair number with the black rubber under them. It likely makes a good difference to have a machine on that rather than a concrete floor. I had levellors on one machine that were heavy duty and had rubber on the bottom so they took care of vibration and leveling. It wasnt a machine that i pushed material across so it didnt have sideways forces on it and id want to be sure that adjustable feet didnt add an wiggle when really heavy boards go accross. Also be sure that they fit okay and didnt raise the machine more than wanted. I think in the past I had info from a few places that specialized in those things.

What are people using here? or do the dealers sell some product for that. IM level now but not attention to vibration.

Andrew the jointer looks like this only its a bit newer I think. I cant read my serial plate it was likely labelled by a doctor.

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[Bill Dufour]

My air vertical compressor swayed side to side when starting up. I have heard that bolting it down to stop that can cause metal fatigue and rip a hole in the tank at the leg welds. I stopped by the side of the road and picked up some thrown tire retreads. About 3/4" thick more or less. I only took those with no steel belt showing. I tipped the compressor and put a piece under each leg. It no longer rocks visibly. I need to tie it with a chain to the wall so it does not fall over in a quake.
Bill D.

[Warren Lake]

good point about tires. Know people recycle them to make vibration stuff from that. Friends daughter got me hockey pucks she is a ref. I haven't tried them yet thanks for reminding me. neither of them allow leveling just some vibration damping. I guess shims could go on top.

Never had attraction to vertical compressors and likely its mostly ive seen so many cheap princess auto type ones that are annoying loud. Then I shouldn't talk my 2 stage beat to death 30 year old is more than annoying loud, never did have it on rubber but on wood which was a bit better. its either rebuild that one or replace it ideally two same size.

[Patrick Kane]

Still would like to see Patrick’s 500mm jointer maybe it’s a Martin? Just for fun here’s what the leveling bolts look like on my Oliver. They are 1 inch.

Martin!?!?you flatter my bank account, sir. No, anything with Martin on it is out of my budget. I would need to find a T51 that was left out in the rain in order to have a martin jointer in the shop. One day id like to look at a long bed T54 in my space, but thats a long way away.

Actually, im not 100% sure of what i bought. Maybe we can do a little crowd sourced detective work on this one. When i originally saw the photos of it, i was intrigued that the guy made a mistake in listing it as a16" machine, when the model number is PF-500. I was right and it is a 500mm machine. Other than that, i saw what looked to be a tersa head, and decided to make a run at it. Despite looking at tons and tons of vintage machines, i couldnt find an exact match for this one. My best guess was it was italian--griggio, paoloni, Cabo etc. Still, not having any form of branding/badging on it was odd, and i was teetering on the edge of walking away from it because of this fact. Then, i saw a similar looking machine in the background of Darcy's youtube video one saturday morning, and i emailed him asking about it. He was kind enough to get back to me with some info about it being Griggio. That was enough for me and i bought the machine. Now that i have it in front of me, im still not sure who made it. It definitely is Italian though, the motor is an Electro Adda and everything is in italian. Frankly, idont particularly care who made it, just so long as it performs well.

In the end, it was kinda the perfect machine for me at this time. It was cheap to ship it to my house. The fact that it was mislabeled and somewhat generic looking helped me get it for a decent price. It has a tersa head, which ive wanted to try after owning straight knife and byrds. It has somewhat shorter beds compared to most 16-20" machines. Finally, the lower HP means i can power it with a VFD affordably and on my 60amp subpanel. Im in abasement, and this is pretty much all the machine i can fit and/or get into the space. Thats another thing, it being slightly under 20" probably helped meget it through the mandoor, where a typical 510mm might not have fit. It only cost me a couple hundred more than i sold my 12" grizzly for, and looking at on tersa knife last night, the whole set should have one trash edge and one brand new edge. All that is left to do is to get the VFD in and see how it runs.Oh, and calibrate the tables coplanar. They are out a bit right now.

A few photos

[Darcy Warner]

Looks just like my 16" Griggio. Same generic tag and all.