Spokeshaves - My Journey (lots of bumpy road)

[Rob Luter]

I put a post (https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?266364-Spokeshave-suggestions) up a couple weeks ago seeking some spoke shave advice. Thanks for all the input. I still haven't pulled the trigger on anything. I'm conflicted between the LN and the LV offerings. Nothing new there. I figured prior to pulling out the wallet, I'd give my motley bunch of antiques a going over in an attempt to coax a few more decades of service out of them. It was raining and I was in the mood to fettle.

My little collection is shown below.

From bottom, two Baileys's shaves marked only "Bailey's Pat July 13, 1853. I'm assuming these are the precursor to Stanley's #53 Straight and Raised Handle Shaves with Adjustable Mouth. Both seem to be missing the original mouth adjustment thumbscrew. The straight handled version has a cutter with what is described as a J Trademark (1874-1884*). The trademark side of the raised handle cutter is broken off so I just share the cutter between them.

Next up is a Stanley #63 with a round bottom and a Sweetheart cutter. It looks like it's been well loved as the japanning is uniformly worn from nearly every surface.

Above the #63 is a flat bottom #64. The cutter has a post 1935 marking.

Next up is a #51 flat bottom from the UK. No idea on age but it's been around a little bit.

At the top is a Millers Falls #1 cigar shave. I picked this up yesterday at an antique fair. It's in great shape and came cheap.

So I spent the better part of a rainy afternoon working on this batch of shaves (excepting the MF #1). Flat bottoms were lapped, cutters were flattened and honed, reassembly took place with surgical precision, and they still work like crap. To be fair, I can coax a decent shaving from all. Sometimes two decent shavings. Getting these adjusted perfectly is all but impossible. If I do manage to hit the sweet spot, contact with a knot or otherwise resistant spot of wood throws things out of whack. Is this just the nature of the beast or is there a learning curve, a long, very steep learning curve? It seems like these are only good for rough work in soft wood. I spent more time tapping the blades than I did making shavings.

The MF #1 is somewhat the opposite. I've read that this shave is a nightmare to sharpen (true) and requires an exacting approach to getting it set right. It came pretty sharp and I guess even a blind pig finds the occasional acorn as I was able to get it dialed in without too much trouble. I find it cuts on the flat and the curve pretty well. Light cuts are the order of the day. I need to make a jig of some sort to sharpen it properly but that will come with time.

So Ladies and Gents, any sage advice on how to squeeze a little more performance out of these old timers? Are my expectations too high? Should I just suck it up and buy some decent shaves?





https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/932/43173962934_9a52a14123_b.jpg

[Jim Koepke]

Hi Rob,

There are a few things that can be causing your problems.

Setting the blade is the hard part. For me setting the shave flat on a bench and inserting the blade almost always makes for too thick of a shaving. This is when my small wood mallet, the head is 1" in diameter, is used to tap lightly on the top of the handle to affect retracting the blade.

Second is the shave itself. Can you see light between the blade and the body or the blade and the cap when things are tight? If so some work is needed.

Can you post some images of your results to indicate what problems you are having?

jtk

[Jim Koepke]

Forgot to post a link to an old thread of mine on spokeshaves:

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?153938

It could use some added information about adjusting spokeshaves. Maybe when some spare time comes my way.

jtk

[David Eisenhauer]

I use a #51 that likes a light-cut setting to work well. The blade can be a little tilted (cutting deeper on one side than the other when held flat) to start on the light side and gradually move the cut more towards the heavier-cut side if you want. You can try the method Jim uses to make the initial setup (I have piece of glass mounted on a bench to use as sharpening sandpaper base) and use a business card or other thin shim under the blade itself to prevent the blade from seating on the bench (or glass in my case) as an alternate to hammering it up some. There is a popular and inexpensive Stanley shave (never can keep all of the many, many Stanley numbers straight) that uses an elevating screw on each end of the blade to adjust the height with. Those are very easy to adjust the height on. Sharp blade, thin cut setup seems to work easily enough for me.

[Steve Kaminska]

I went through a lot of issues from the opposite end of the spectrum... I had a brand new spokeshave that wouldn't perform...

I would say - 1) take a bit of time on some scrap to learn how your shave behaves... (this is important, you will spend a lot of time rubbing the tool over the top of the wood, and doing nothing... and digging the tool in at too steep of an angle, again doing nothing)

2) make sure every surface contacting the blade and the work face is as flat as can be...

I spent a lot of time tuning up the body of my Stanley 12 - 951 spokeshave, based on advise from members on this forum, but I have yet to actually sharpen the blade to my standards (yours are likely better)...

My spokeshave performs quite nicely now!

[Bob Glenn]

This is pure speculation on my part. Please correct me if I am going down the wrong road here. I have two or three of the shaves pictured above and they work well for, what I believe they were designed for, that is shaving spokes. In my case, windsor chair spindles. Here's where I may be wandering off in the tall weeds. Are we asking too much by trying to use a shave where we should be using a plane?

I also have a Stanley #151 and after reading an article called "Hot Rod Your Spoke Shave", I bought a Hock blade and worked on the bedding with a file and a little epoxy to fill in the small voids in the casting. It performs well, even when I take heavy cuts rounding the bottom edges of my chairs. Skewing the shave also helps.

My favorite shaves for chair spindles, however, are the old wooden shaves found in antique shops. They are hard to sharpen, however, with the low angle presentation to the wood surface they cut beautifully. I too like to have one side set lighter than the other so I can take a heavy or light cut by shifting the position. The wooden shaves are also more user friendly in that they are lighter and I like the feel of wood rather than steel in my hand. Good luck in your journey.

Comments and further discussion is welcome. Bob

[Prashun Patel]

"If I do manage to hit the sweet spot, contact with a knot or otherwise resistant spot of wood throws things out of whack. ."

Can you be more specific about what is happening?

How wide is the edge that you are trying to fair?
Is it concave or convex?
Are you getting jammed shavings in the mouth? Chatter? Failure to cut? Tearout?

It can be a challenge to hold a spokeshave sole flat on the surface as the curve changes. I find it sometimes helpful to skew the cut.

Have you fettled the front edges of all your caps?

[Jim Koepke]

My favorite shaves for chair spindles, however, are the old wooden shaves found in antique shops.

After finding one of these on a visit to an antique shop it amazed me how easy it was to get a clean shaving. Even with a bit of wear to the sole it performed quite well.

jtk

[Jack Frederick]

My SS's drive me crazy at times as well. Sometimes I feel like a hand. Something will change and I am chasing again. One thing I will say is that I have probably done my best work with the Boggs LN concave blade shave. That thing is a wonder and I am pretty consistent with it.

[Rob Luter]

Thanks to all for the responses and suggestions.

Jim K - The cutters seem to be bedded well and the lever caps fit well too. No daylight showing.

David E - I agree the adjustment is pretty touchy. I've tried setting it in a "no cut" situation and gingerly tapping the blade so as to produce the lightest of cuts.

Steve K - I agree that a sharp cutter is critical. Mine are pretty sharp, but to be fair, some improvement is possible.

Bob G - These work OK on small "spokes". I'm trying to use them to clean up edges on flat and curved work. I don't have a spindle sander and sandpaper wrapped around a dowel is a PITA. A block plane can be used for the flat spots with clearance, but I need a spoke shave for the tight areas and the curved stuff.

Prashun P - What I'm referring to is the blade being knocked out of adjustment. The lever caps are tough to get tight enough to keep the cutter secure. I'm working edges that are about 1/2 wide. I mostly get chatter and failure to cut well. White oak is worse than Cedar (duh!). The Millers Falls suffers the occasional jammed shaving, but the rest seem to work OK.

I spent some more time at the bench tonight. The #63 and #64 are working pretty well with very light cuts, and the Millers falls continues to work well too. The #51 wants to take a heavy shaving no matter what. I can set it to take a fine cut and it just digs in. I think all could stand to be sharper and ground with a lower angle. The best I could do with the sharpening jigs I have is between 30* and 35*. I may make a jig. These are old blades too. I could stand to have some decent ones. More fettling ahead, but I'm guessing I'll acquire a good shave just as a "gut check"

I've been down this road with planes too. My Sweetheart era bench planes worked great when fettled and sharpened properly. When I added Hock blades the performance got much better. When I bought my LN 4 1/2 and LV Low Angle Jack I came to understand the value of precision construction.

This is the kind of performance i'm after. It looks like Chris is using a #53 with a proper thumbscrew and razor sharp blade.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahfcXH6Io3o