Narex DOVETAIL chisels?

[Frederick Skelly]

I just opened FWW and there's a brief review of them. They are referred to as "Japanese style" chisels. They have a hollow back, but the blades aren't laminated. Amazon has them (https://www.amazon.com/Narex-Dovetail-Japanese-Chisel-813507-19/dp/B01GUSWOU4/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1533078278&sr=8-4&keywords=narex+dovetail+chisel) for about $35 each.

I'm curious whether anyone has tried these?

Fred

[Tom M King]

Looks like it's made for whacking pretty hard, with that ring on the handle?????

[Andrew Hughes]

Hardness of 59 for dovetailing cheddar cheese. Too soft for me

[Greg Wease]

Dovetail chisels should have a very narrow side bevel to avoid dinging dovetail corners. The Narex dovetail chisel has a one millimeter flat on the sides. This is the same as their bench chisels so why bother?

[Jason Martin Winnipeg]

Looks like it's made for whacking pretty hard, with that ring on the handle?????

These are common on Japanese style chisels, because the Japanese woodworkers did their work sitting down at a bench so they used metal hammers which meant they didn't have to hit their chisels as hard. The ferrule is to prevent the wood from splitting due to the metal hammer hitting it.

[Jessica de Boer]

The hoop is a thing brass ring, nothing like a good, solid metal hoop on a Japanese chisel. The same goes for the ferrule. It's a thin piece of brass that's been shaped in a hydraulic press. It's absolutely worthless.

[Joe A Faulkner]

Hardness of 59 for dovetailing cheddar cheese. Too soft for me
Andrew, I'm curious, what chisels are you using for dovetails? I'm considering my first Japanese chisel and am leaning towards a "dovetail style".

[Mike Henderson]

I've chopped a lot of dovetails with ordinary bench chisels and never had any problems or desire for a different shaped chisel. I do have a 3/8" fishtail for when I want to get into tight corners.

Mike

[John C Cox]

Rc 59-ish is pretty typical for western chisels... Assuming the heat treatment is good - that’s plenty hard...

[Jim Koepke]

I've chopped a lot of dovetails with ordinary bench chisels and never had any problems or desire for a different shaped chisel.

When chopping my preference was for a bit heavier chisel than ones used for paring. Since then my practice has changed to sawing out the waste and then paring to the lines.

Of course anyone can use just about any chisel the desire for dovetail work. My choice is to have different chisels set up for different tasks.

The closest any of my chisels come to being a 'premium' chisel is a Narex mortising chisel.

jtk

[Luke Dupont]

Rc 59-ish is pretty typical for western chisels... Assuming the heat treatment is good - that’s plenty hard...

Agreed.

I actually prefer chisels somewhat on the soft side. For western chisels, I don't really want anything over RC59 or so. I don't get the need for super hard tools that make sharpening on nice stones difficult, or chip and then take longer to fix.

I do appreciate white-steel Japanese chisels, but for western tools I'll take softer steels any day -- and preferably without the hard carbides, like A2 has.

[Mike Brady]

Not much flat area behind the cutting edge of that chisel. As the cutting edge gets sharpened back do you also have to lap metal off of the chisel bottom?

[Jessica de Boer]

The hollow is different on this chisel compared to a Japanese chisel. With a Japanese chisel the hollow is shallower near the edge. This way you can use fully use up the blade without completely loosing the hollow as the blade gets shorter and thinner. If the hollow on the Narex gets too close to the edge you would have to remove a lot of steel to move it back. I guess they thought it would appeal to people who can't afford a set of good Japanese chisels but they clearly didn't think it through.

[Jim Koepke]

I guess they thought it would appeal to people who can't afford a set of good Japanese chisels but they clearly didn't think it through.

Or maybe they made the common mistake of thinking if a little hollow is good a lot of hollow must be better. :eek:

jtk

[Bill Carey]

I've been using them for about 6 months now. They are pretty comfortable to use, sharpen well, and do what they are supposed to do. I prefer using them to using my bench chisels. Worth the cost, and then some.

[Stewie Simpson]

Bill; how sharp are the side lands on those chisels.

[Bill Carey]

Hey Stewie - I would not call them sharp at all. (the only disappointment) On the 1/2" chisel, the sides are about 3/32, while they are smaller on the 1/4", maybe 1/16. Tried taking a pic but didn't work out. Narex had the right idea, just didn't go far enough.

[Greg Wease]

The Narex rep at AWFS last summer told me their manufacturing equipment leaves a minimum 1 mm flat on the side bevels, the same for both their dovetail and "classic" Narex bench chisels sold by Lee Valley.

[Bill Carey]

I think he was being a sales rep. Citing the minimum doesn't really tell us what we want to know. This is the 1/2" chisel.
391169

[Jim Koepke]

The Narex rep at AWFS last summer told me their manufacturing equipment leaves a minimum 1 mm flat on the side bevels


I think he was being a sales rep. Citing the minimum doesn't really tell us what we want to know.

Being vague when answering questions is what sales reps are paid to do. It sounds better than, "we really do not know, but we try to make them at least 1mm and anything bigger than Xmm is labeled a firmer chisel."

They are cranking out chisels as fast as they can and as long as they fall into certain parameters they get shipped to market.

jtk

[Tony Zaffuto]

I bought one to try. It is not a Japanese chisel, though it is hollowed on the back to look like one! It is not a chisel I would reach for if doing "show" dovetails, but if I was wailing away on pieces of 3/4" spruce, for a quicky, no-show, I might grab it. To tell the truth, I really can't even remember where it is stored!

What I use for DT's, are several "true" Japanese chisels and/or my Ashly Iles round back chisels. But what helps dovetailing more than anything, is constant practice! Maybe if Warren reads this thread, he can give us a historical perspective on size of lands on vintage chisels.

[Jim Koepke]

Maybe if Warren reads this thread, he can give us a historical perspective on size of lands on vintage chisels.

My recollection is someone posted about bevel edged chisels not appearing until the middle of the 19th century. My recollector has been known to be on the blink at times.

jtk

[Bill Carey]

my Ashly Iles round back chisels. But what helps dovetailing more than anything, is constant practice!
Thanks for the info Tony. I never even looked at the AI round back chisels. I would have gone that way for sure.

[Stewie Simpson]

I think he was being a sales rep. Citing the minimum doesn't really tell us what we want to know. This is the 1/2" chisel.
391169

Thanks Bill; appreciate the feedback.

[Luke Dupont]

The hollow is different on this chisel compared to a Japanese chisel. With a Japanese chisel the hollow is shallower near the edge. This way you can use fully use up the blade without completely loosing the hollow as the blade gets shorter and thinner. If the hollow on the Narex gets too close to the edge you would have to remove a lot of steel to move it back. I guess they thought it would appeal to people who can't afford a set of good Japanese chisels but they clearly didn't think it through.

I just took a look at the actual chisel, and I have to agree.

It's basically all of the great aspects of a Japanese chisel done very wrongly / in such a way that they're either useless, or detrimental. The hollow especially is a huge detriment that will significantly shorten the life of the tool.

[Frederick Skelly]

I've been using them for about 6 months now. They are pretty comfortable to use, sharpen well, and do what they are supposed to do. I prefer using them to using my bench chisels. Worth the cost, and then some.

Thanks Bill!

[Frederick Skelly]

I bought one to try. It is not a Japanese chisel, though it is hollowed on the back to look like one! It is not a chisel I would reach for if doing "show" dovetails, but if I was wailing away on pieces of 3/4" spruce, for a quicky, no-show, I might grab it. To tell the truth, I really can't even remember where it is stored!

What I use for DT's, are several "true" Japanese chisels and/or my Ashly Iles round back chisels. But what helps dovetailing more than anything, is constant practice! Maybe if Warren reads this thread, he can give us a historical perspective on size of lands on vintage chisels.

Thanks Tony!
Fred