advice purchase CBN wheel

[Brian Deakin]

I have a Creusen slow speed grinder (1700 rpm) The grinder currently has 2 aluminium oxide wheels 60 and 100 grit

I plan to purchase a CBN wheel diameter 150mm width 40 mm

My initial thoughts were to purchase a 180 grit wheel

Can members please advice if this would be the best choice

additionally which specific wheel to purchase

regards Brian

[JohnC Lucas]

It depends. I had a 180 CBN for last 5 years or so and really liked it. It's removes metal fast enough you can reshape an edge pretty quickly but it's fine enough to give a really good cutting edge. I have switched to a 350 grit now and do like it better for sharpening but it's to slow to completely reshape a tool. It does remove metal fast enough to change the edge a fair amount. If you have a course wheel to really shape tools then I would consider either the 180 or 350. I may go finer one of these days but only if I purchase a course wheel for reshaping.

[John Keeton]

From the brand of your grinder I assume you are in the U.K. So, I guess it depends on availability not knowing the sourcing you have. I have had a 180 for years and earlier this year decided to upgrade grinders and acquire another CBN wheel so I would have two balanced wheels on the new grinder. Ken Rizza suggested his 600 grit Mega wheel and I love it. The 180 is there to regrind and the 600 produces a very polished edge. However, if I was going to have only one it would be the 180.

[Kevin Jenness]

I have had good luck with this 180 grit wheel http://www.thewoodturningstore.com/hurricane-tools-cbn-grinding-wheel-6x1x-5-180-grit/. It's a huge upgrade from the white aluminum oxide wheels I had been using, cuts fast and cool and leaves a fine burr, runs smooth and needs no dressing. I am guessing a finer wheel would still cut fast enough for normal resharpening and give a finer edge.

[John K Jordan]

Can members please advice if this would be the best choice


Best choice for what?

I find the 180 or 220 fine for scrapers and bowl gouges for green wood.
I prefer a 600 grit for skew chisels and negative rake scrapers.
I use a 1200 grit for my spindle gouges. I also have a 1000 grit but it's too coarse for me for the spindle gouges.

I mostly turn dry wood, many hard exotics, more smaller things than larger.

JKJ

[Don Jarvie]

I have the 80 and 180 from Hurricane Turning Tools. Complete game changer compared to the white wheels.

[Brian Deakin]

Thank you to everyone for your posts

Yes I do live in the UK

I will be travelling to Toronto and New York in September for a family holiday

At this moment in time I am trying to decide whether to make a purchase in the Uk or USA

I have contacted a UK industrial supplier They are able to make a custom wheel with a 15mm bore for my Crusen grinder

Unfortunately the price is prohibitive $500 (150mm X 40mm 180 grit)

Interestingly the custom wheel could have 2 different thicknesses of CBN coating 3mm or 6mm The price quoted was for 6mm

Can anyone please comment on the thickness of the CBN coating on wheels available in the USA

regards Brian

[John K Jordan]

Interestingly the custom wheel could have 2 different thicknesses of CBN coating 3mm or 6mm The price quoted was for 6mm
Can anyone please comment on the thickness of the CBN coating on wheels available in the USA


Although I have several specialized industrial diamond wheels with the diamond particles in a matrix compound perhaps 2-3mm thick, all the CBN wheels I've seen for woodturners were not made like that. Instead, they have a thin layer of CBN on the wheel surface bonded to the metal wheel, I believe, by electroplating a thin layer of nickel. (Diamond and CBN hones and flat plates are also made by electroplating.)

The thick and softer matrix compound with diamond embedded is worn away in use and when gone the wheel is discarded. (This type of wheel was used for grinding ceramic - I have no idea how it would work on lathe tools.) For an electroplated wheel all that wears away are the very tips of the CBN grains. Until then the wheel is overly aggressive but after the initial "break in" period it settles down and sharpens consistently for years.

This article by Reed Grey describes some reasons for using electroplated wheels.
http://www.robohippy.net/featured-article/

The $500 price you were quoted was probably for an industrial wheel. You can check US prices for electroplated wheels for woodturners here:
Steel: http://d-waytools.com/cbn-grinding-wheels
Aluminum (mostly): https://woodturnerswonders.com/collections/cbn-wheels
You can call either of these with questions on availability of wheels with the hole size you need.

BTW, many people buy wheels with radiused edges. I far prefer wheels with square edges and some grit down the side of the wheel.

JKJ

[Brian Deakin]

John
Thank you for post
The $500 price tag is probably representative of a fair price for an industrial wheel in the Uk

The wheels are made in the Black country approximately 2 miles away from where I was born

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Country

regards Brian

[John K Jordan]

The wheels are made in the Black country approximately 2 miles away from where I was born


That's a place area in the UK I haven't visited or even drove through. (We sometimes visit points in the UK either as a starting or ending to points further east in Europe. Do you live elsewhere now?

JKJ

[Reed Gray]

The electroplated wheels are better than the ones where a matrix with the CBN in is is bonded to a hub. Mostly because the matrix wears down and it will need to be 'dressed', which you generally can not do at home. No idea which wheels are available in the UK. Optigrind used to be available in Europe, but the owner passed away, and Cindy Drozda tool over. The 1 1;2 inch wide wheels are preferable too. Some are bored to specific sizes, most common is 5/8 inch. They can be bored bigger and come with an insert to match your specific grinder. Glenn Lucas commented that he 'finds good homes for his CBN wheels after about 1 year of use'. No idea where he gets his. I think his preference is for the new diamond wheels that Tormek is coming out with, the coarse grit is 600 which is fine for finish cuts, but not so good for heavy roughing.

robo hippy

[Brian Deakin]

I live in Quorn Leicestershire

Interesting things about the area

King Richard 111 died and is buried in Leicestershire

Charnley forest stone originates about 10 miles from Quorn

David Stanley auctions are located in Coalville about 10 miles from Quorn

[Bill Boehme]

The electroplated wheels are better than the ones where a matrix with the CBN in is is bonded to a hub. Mostly because the matrix wears down and it will need to be 'dressed', which you generally can not do at home. No idea which wheels are available in the UK. Optigrind used to be available in Europe, but the owner passed away, and Cindy Drozda tool over. The 1 1;2 inch wide wheels are preferable too. Some are bored to specific sizes, most common is 5/8 inch. They can be bored bigger and come with an insert to match your specific grinder. Glenn Lucas commented that he 'finds good homes for his CBN wheels after about 1 year of use'. No idea where he gets his. I think his preference is for the new diamond wheels that Tormek is coming out with, the coarse grit is 600 which is fine for finish cuts, but not so good for heavy roughing.

robo hippy

I think you addressed my concern about the new nylon CBN wheel from Woodturning Wonders which I assume would have to be the matrix type.

[John K Jordan]

I think you addressed my concern about the new nylon CBN wheel from Woodturning Wonders which I assume would have to be the matrix type.

Rizza's web site says the new Spartan wheels have the CBN electroplated onto steel with an aluminum center. He doesn't specifically describe the nylon wheels but a quick call would answer the question.

[Reed Gray]

The matrix type were the first ones I had. Woodcraft had a similar one made with diamond in the matrix. About 3/16 of matrix bonded to an aluminum hub. That one did not sell for them, and I had mine for several years before Dave Schweitzer came out with his, which as near as I could tell were the first on the market...I had problems with them loading up and wearing. I would think an oil bath would work to help keep the build up from happening. Cindy Drozda had a video up where she positioned a cheap paint brush on the wheel to keep it wet. She has since taken that one down.

robo hippy

[Bill Boehme]

Rizza's web site says the new Spartan wheels have the CBN electroplated onto steel with an aluminum center. He doesn't specifically describe the nylon wheels but a quick call would answer the question.

The entire wheel is aluminum ... over 9½ pounds worth of aluminum on the 2 inch wide X 10 inch diameter Tormek wheel. On the three or four worn through spots it is obvious that it is aluminum beneath. Normally, copper is first electroplated onto aluminum as an intermediate layer since nickel apparently won't directly electroplate to aluminum very well. It might be that the top layer is an alloy of nickel and iron. I have a stack of 32 rare earth magnets that is incredibly powerful and is like a black hole grabbing fine metal dust in the vicinity of my grinder. I tried to see if there was any attraction for the CBN wheel. As best as I could determine there wasn't any attraction. This doesn't men that there wasn't any iron, but if there is it's such a tiny amount that I couldn't detect it.

[bobby stout]

I too have the 180 wheels from Hurricane Turning tools Steve is a great guy to buy from.

[John K Jordan]

I called Ken Rizza - some info on his web site on the Spartan wheels was accidentally incorrect. He said this:

At present, the only nylon wheel is 10"x2" made for the Tormek. It does have the CBN grit electroplated onto a steel band with nickel. This is the only wheel he sells that uses some steel.
The aluminum Spartan wheels are made like his other aluminum wheels, with a coating on the 8" aluminum and the CBN grit electroplated on top with nickel.

He will change the text on the web site to make it correct.

I have two of the non-Spartan aluminum CBN wheels and they are indeed heavy. Mine have grit down the sides as well as on the face. I don't have any worn through spots on any of my wheels but I do use a light touch.

You are wise to use magnets to try to catch the dust. Better use a dust mask too. I found fine steel dust on strong magnets on the back of my bandsaw over 10' from my sharpening station. With a strong light and a dark background I can see the dust floating in the air just like talcum powder of ultra fine sawdust.

JKJ

[Bill Boehme]

I called Ken Rizza - some info on his web site on the Spartan wheels was accidentally incorrect. He said this:

At present, the only nylon wheel is 10"x2" made for the Tormek. It does have the CBN grit electroplated onto a steel band with nickel. This is the only wheel he sells that uses some steel.
The aluminum Spartan wheels are made like his other aluminum wheels, with a coating on the 8" aluminum and the CBN grit electroplated on top with nickel.

He will change the text on the web site to make it correct.

I have two of the non-Spartan aluminum CBN wheels and they are indeed heavy. Mine have grit down the sides as well as on the face. I don't have any worn through spots on any of my wheels but I do use a light touch.

You are wise to use magnets to try to catch the dust. Better use a dust mask too. I found fine steel dust on strong magnets on the back of my bandsaw over 10' from my sharpening station. With a strong light and a dark background I can see the dust floating in the air just like talcum powder of ultra fine sawdust.

JKJ

I apologize for not paying close enough attention when I read your previous post. I thought that you were talking about the Tornado CBN wheel for the Tormek, but when I read it again I realized that you were talking about the Spartan having a steel band around the nylon hub.

I cleaned up my CBN wheel with a brass bristled brush yesterday and it looks much better and the CBN crystals actually sparkle now. I've had a bottle of Honerite Gold anti corrosion concentrate for nearly a year so I decided that I might as well use it. Doing some units conversion I came up with 151 ml per gallon of water. I used an empty Gatorade gallon jug and it was spooky how closely the green color matched the original color of the lemon-lime Gatorade that had been in the jug.

A couple observations:
1. the metal dust in the trough isn't rusting which is different from using plain water and
2. The mixture clings to the wheel more than plain water.

Anyway, I'll see how my Gatorade experiment goes. If the wheel doesn't corrode then I'll consider the test a success.

The new Tormek diamond wheels must be used with their similar proprietary anti corrosion additive. They say to not use plain water.

[John K Jordan]

It always amazed me how a water solution cutting fluid did not cause rust. I've been using some on my horizontal metal-cutting bandsaw for years, recirculated by a pump.

[Van Huskey]

It always amazed me how a water solution cutting fluid did not cause rust. I've been using some on my horizontal metal-cutting bandsaw for years, recirculated by a pump.

The corrosion inhibitors adsorb onto the surface of the metal, forming a physical barrier that prevents in this case rust.

[Reed Gray]

The Tool Post over there carries CBN wheels...

robo hippy

[Bill Boehme]

BTW, the first shipment of diamond wheels arrived at US dealers on August 3, but were already sold out when they arrived because of the waiting list of pre-orders. The next shipment isn't expected until October. The diamond wheels are steel and come in three grits: 320, 600, and 1200. They can be used on HSS, ceramic (which might include stellite), and carbides.

[Reed Gray]

Stellite, like Tantung cuts fine on CBN wheels. I might need one diamond wheel for my Tormek, though at present, all I use it for is honing..... Curiosity can be expensive....

robo hippy

[John K Jordan]

Curiosity can be expensive....
robo hippy

I need that on a sign in my shop.

JKJ