Ornamental Turning On-The-Cheap

[Glen Blanchard]

I've been making boxes as of late and am enjoying the endeavor. I'd like to play around with embellishments ala ornamental turning, rose engines and that stuff (which I know nothing about other than the cost of entry is rather high). I am wondering if there is a cheap way to begin toying around with this. Are there any commercial, basic jigs available that can be placed and used on the lathe? If not commercially available, has anyone experimented with a DIY project along these lines (I'm thinking of perhaps a pivoting router or something similar that sits on the bed ways)?

[Dwight Rutherford]

Google “MDF Rose Engine” for plans to make your own. Another option is, a friend and I used plans from Capt Eddie Castelin’s Lathezilla which is a little more sophisticated. PM me for more info.

[Glen Blanchard]

Thanks Dwight. I'll digest the MDF Rose Engine material over the next few days and, if it does not appear to be sophisticated enough (highly doubtful) I'll send you a PM regarding Lathezilla.

[JohnC Lucas]

A router and some jigs and indexing wheels let you do a lot of playing. Its not like the rose engines but if you already ha e a router its easy to do.. do a search on you tube for john lucas router demo and you can find the demo i did for the atlanta club

[Marvin Hasenak]

I was in the process of making one a couple of years ago using a combination of ideas gathered off the Internet, one was Dale Winburn's ornamental lathe, and Geoff O'loughlin's ornamental lathe. But medical issues have stopped my shop play time. Winburn uses a router and a upright post for his cutter mount and a "block" shaped headstock for the spindle. My plans use a 5/8" shaft in a block of wood using Shopsmith and off the shelf attachments. I sent you a PM with my email, I have drawings that explains how it goes together.

[Glen Blanchard]

A router and some jigs and indexing wheels let you do a lot of playing. Its not like the rose engines but if you already ha e a router its easy to do.. do a search on you tube for john lucas router demo and you can find the demo i did for the atlanta club

Found it. Thanks!

[Glen Blanchard]

I was in the process of making one a couple of years ago using a combination of ideas gathered off the Internet, one was Dale Winburn's ornamental lathe, and Geoff O'loughlin's ornamental lathe. But medical issues have stopped my shop play time. Winburn uses a router and a upright post for his cutter mount and a "block" shaped headstock for the spindle. My plans use a 5/8" shaft in a block of wood using Shopsmith and off the shelf attachments. I sent you a PM with my email, I have drawings that explains how it goes together.



Email sent. Thanks.

[Don Bunce]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AHOfuIBP8I Here is a link to a video of the JaHo ornamental turning device.

[Glen Blanchard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AHOfuIBP8I Here is a link to a video of the JaHo ornamental turning device.

Yeah, I saw that one. It looks very interesting but, as their website has no option for English, it’s very difficult to acquire information about it, like pricing.

[Marvin Hasenak]

The cutter used in the video is an indexable fly cutter, a machinists tool, problem is the shaft size. I looked for these in the past, never found one with a shaft size that would work with my power head. To create a power source for the cutter was the road block, closest I came was a router, and I did not feel safe with a router spinning the fly cutter.

To make one like in the video would not be hard. First a good cross slide like the last one on the pdf I sent you, a power source and a cutting blade. For the power source I would use a 44T Foredom hand piece with some sort of router bit. The pdf showed Dale Winburn's tower cutter powered by a router, a power head like that would also work. Using a router bit wouldn't get the circles, but it can be indexed around the top of the box and cut in angles. I think I could make it for $250, a cross slide, about $100, a power unit like the Foredom, another $100, router bits, $50. Miscellaneous wood and scraps for the mounts, out of my junk pile.

The version I did in the pdf I sent you would be about he same. The power head, there are several knockoffs of the Foredom, one on Amazon is highly recommended by a woodcarver, it was less than a $100, the cross slide, look at camera 2 way macro sliders, they are less than $30, the router bit I used was $25 on eBay. The Shopsmith parts and adapters were about $50. Plus miscellaneous from the scrap piles.

[Phil Rose]

Google Translate helps a bit. Prise is around $500 US dollars. https://www.drechselbedarf-schulte.de/drechselbaenke-maschinen/zusatzgeraete/jaho-guillochiergeraet/885/guillochiergeraet-jaho

[Don Bunce]

You could make an equivalent of the JaHo by buying the parts separately. It appears to use the Proxxon KT70 micro compound table, ( 90 dollars from Amazon prime), a 4" rotary table,( 100-150 dollars, also from amazon), a boring head/2mt shaft for about 100 usd,(Amazon again) and a dome chuck backplate with 1"-8 tpi from Alisam engineering for 30 usd. (Ebay).

You would have to make a riser to put the center of the rotary table at spindle height. A block of oak or maple would do fine.

You would have to grind cutters to fit the boring head.


Nova made a similar device about 20 yrs ago,but not many were sold, so trying to find one would be next to impossible...

There are several videos on youtube. Search for nova ornamental turner.

You could use a 5C spin index, (about 50-60 dollars.) Alisam makes a 1" to 1"-8 tpi adaptor that would work with a 1" 5C collet.

[Glen Blanchard]

You could make an equivalent of the JaHo by buying the parts separately. It appears to use the Proxxon KT70 micro compound table, ( 90 dollars from Amazon prime), a 4" rotary table,( 100-150 dollars, also from amazon), a boring head/2mt shaft for about 100 usd,(Amazon again) and a dome chuck backplate with 1"-8 tpi from Alisam engineering for 30 usd. (Ebay).



I found all the parts as per the reference. That does not appear to be too complicated. The dome chuck baseplate would need to be 1-1/4" x 8 tpi though. I don't see one of these on Ebay, Amazon or on Alisam's site. Any suggestions?

[Peter Christensen]

You could get a Lee Valley chuck adapter (http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=58760&cat=1,330,49238&ap=1) and cut the stem short and glue it in a disc you make to attach it to the rotary table or if you went with a 5C spin index hold it with a 5/8" collet.

[Glen Blanchard]

You could get a Lee Valley chuck adapter (http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=58760&cat=1,330,49238&ap=1) and <snip> if you went with a 5C spin index hold it with a 5/8" collet.

I'm going to show my ignorance here. Please excuse me. If i were to use the appropriate Lee Valley chuck adapter with a 5C spin index and 5/8" collet, is there any need for a drawbar? The chuck won't be turning during the milling of course, but might the collet have a tendency to slip out of proper 360 degree rotational orientation if it is not somehow secured in place?

[Glen Blanchard]

I have become very interested in making my own knock-off JaHo device. I have a question or two about the boring head:

1. Will this one (https://www.amazon.com/Precision-Head-MT2-Drawbar-Carbide-Tools/dp/B06X3YRB3T/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1532908945&sr=1-1-fkmr1&keywords=boring+head%2F2mt+shaft) work?

2. The carbide cutters that come with that boring head seem to be quite long to me to be spinning at the kind of rpm that I imagine I will want to be using. Can those carbide cutters be used or should I put them aside and use a HSS cutter with a shorter shaft?

3. Can appropriate HSS cutters that will fit this boring head be purchased in assorted cutting configurations or will I need to make my own cutters from a 5/16" HSS bar?

[Peter Christensen]

I'm going to show my ignorance here. Please excuse me. If i were to use the appropriate Lee Valley chuck adapter with a 5C spin index and 5/8" collet, is there any need for a drawbar? The chuck won't be turning during the milling of course, but might the collet have a tendency to slip out of proper 360 degree rotational orientation if it is not somehow secured in place?

Nope. The 5C collet was designed to hold work in metal lathes so it holds tight. The Spin Index uses the same collets to hold work for milling machine operations. If the chuck doesn’t come off the threads it won’t come out of the collet.

[Don Bunce]

That boring head should work fine. You will need to make your own bits. Best bet would to use 5/16 HSS drill blanks, since they are already hardened. Can be cut with an abrasive cutoff wheel.

BTW, what kind of lathe do you have?

[Glen Blanchard]

Thanks, Don. Making my own HSS cutters was what I was thinking would be the thing to do. I'll have to make a riser to raise the scroll chuck to spindle center height but as has been said, that should be straightforward and can be done as simply as with a block of hardwood. My lathe is a Robust American Beauty, and with its' 25" swing, I imagine the cross sled will need to be raised significantly.

It seems to me that it might be handy to have the cross sled riding on some sort of micro-adjustable turntable which would facilitate orientation of the piece being milled. I don't even know what such a thing is called. Any ideas where I might be able to buy such a thing?

Y'all have been very helpful and I appreciate that. My thinking right now is to make a DYI JaHo. If, in the future sometime, I feel a need for a rose engine, I'll have to consider the MDF version.

[Glen Blanchard]

Nope. The 5C collet was designed to hold work in metal lathes so it holds tight. The Spin Index uses the same collets to hold work for milling machine operations. If the chuck doesn’t come off the threads it won’t come out of the collet.

Thanks, Peter. Your idea is compelling.

[Peter Christensen]

Since you’re mounting to a big lathe a cross slide table might be better than the little one the German uses. Shars sells through Amazon as well as direct. The also have rotary tables, 5 C stuff and a lot more. One of their cross slides also rotates but may only be hand positioned. Can’t tell on the phone.
http://www.shars.com/catalogsearch/result/?cat=701&q=cross+feed+table+%2F+mill

[Marvin Hasenak]

I found the drill press cross slide that I used, it is from Grizzly Tools, item number G1064. It is the one that has adjustable gibs so you can remove any of the sloppiness in the rails.

[Glen Blanchard]

Marvin - That one looks good but I don't think I need the vise.

[Don Bunce]

I am using the xy table from Shars, I believe the one from grizzly is the same. I mounted it to the bed of my PM3520b with a 8" x 12" x 1/2" sheet of aluminum with a 1/2-11 bolt in the center. It can be mounted in line with the headstock, of at 90 deg, or anywhere in between.

It is a rocking head rose engine using a 5C spin index.

[Glen Blanchard]

It is a rocking head rose engine using a 5C spin index.

PURDYYYYY !! Great looking setup.

[Peter Christensen]

There is a MDF rose engine lathe in the for sale section on the IAP. It is in GA if anyone in that area is interested.

Nice machine Don. Is there a thread here with more pictures and information?