A Case For Beater Tools

[Jim Koepke]

One of my strong beliefs is to have beater tools for the rough work or as loaners if you have friends/neighbors who want to borrow tools. Of course, some of my tools will not be loaned. In most of those cases my labor will be donated to avoid lending a tool that would likely be damaged by those who borrow tools instead of buying them.

One of my projects is to turn a cedar log into a bench. Here the arm rest is being smoothed with a beater spoke shave:

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My Dunlap #3 size plane was also used. The wood is still wet, but the grandkids are coming and the wife wanted to have a fire ring out back to toast marshmallows with seating.

jtk

[ken hatch]

+`1 on having a few beaters.

SWMBO and grandpeanuts are a sure path to making things, even if you never thought you would make whatever it is you are making.

ken

[Stew Denton]

I was going to say +1 on having beater tools, but Ken beat me to it by quite a bit, so I say +2 on having beater tools. I have had bad experiences on loaning good tools that I have taken very good care of for 40 years, such that they looked nearly as nice as when I bought them new, because I take very good care of my tools.

Like Jim, I would rather help a friend with a project than have them nearly ruin one of my tools. The friend is more important to me than the tool, so by helping them I get to help them and at the same time protect my tools. It is a win for me both ways.

I also help out with work days at the church, and with what job I usually end up being assigned to, those of us who work on such items are almost always ones who are pretty good with tools. I know the guys on the committee, and they know which of us have the carpentry skills. In those cases I don't mind the other guy or guys using my tools and it is vise versa with the other guys in that group too.

However, I hope to get to go work on things at a relatively close church camp, but there you have no idea who is going to be there or who will want to borrow what, and the organizers can ask folks about what skills they have, but the truth is they have no idea who has what skills. That's where I want a serviceable set of beaters with me. There is no way I would take something like my one and only very carefully restored 120+ year old 10" Jackson very thin plate dovetail saw with me on that kind of a trip. That's the type of work where my 40 year old (bought new when I was young) cheap relatively thick plate gents saw goes on the trip.

Like the others say, the beaters are also good choices for the rough work jobs. Those are jobs where I can tear something up myself, simply because of the nature of the work. Problem is my beater tools are not sharp, and I may not even have a full set of beaters. (In some cases though, my best tool is actually just a tuned up beater.)

Stew

[Rob Luter]

Agreed. I have a set of Marples blue handle chisels for rough work. I work my LN bevel edge chisels with crisp strikes from a precision mallet. I wail on the Marples with a hammer. Hammer baby!

[Jim Koepke]

In some cases though, my best tool is actually just a tuned up beater.

That describes my three #4s. Two of them are type 6 that have been used hard and put away wet before they came my way. One has a tote socket with bad treads restored using JB Weld. The third plane is a SW era plane with the heal broken off a bit, what looks like a small crack forming at the mouth and tote and knob from a 60s era hardware store plane. It is a Franken plane of sorts. All three are good to go. To me, the type 13 is the beater.


I wail on the Marples with a hammer. Hammer baby!

Good they can take it. My preference when hitting a chisel is to have something with a large head so if the blow is slightly off there is a good chance of avoiding injury.

jtk

[Luke Dupont]

Was I the only one expecting to see a crude toolbox build? :D

In any case, I partly agree:

When I first started woodworking, I bought a ton of "junk" hardware store tools (some of which were okay, some of which left me with only frustration) which I later turned into beater tools, or, if they were bad enough, got rid of, gave away, sold, or used as materials to make better tools or try modifying said tool. It's natural to get a bunch of beater tools this way as I'm sure most people do, and they can come in handy, so why not keep them around?

But, there's a flip side!

Now, I'm in Japan. I have a really small apartment, and no shop. So what I need are a very small number of good, decent quality tools for small projects, and no excess junk for which I don't have room.

So, I bought a bunch of mid range tools that do the job well without breaking the bank, whilst avoiding low end stuff that I'll want to replace at a later date with something better. And, now I have a good set of tools without much want aside from the occasional thing I'm still lacking. I've got a truly minimalist setup currently: a few decent chisels, a single plane, a couple of decent saws, a few gimlets and hole-boring tools, and a few decent measuring and marking tools. The only thing I have an excess of are stones, because I'm one of those silly people who like to try out lots of different sharpening stones, and I always justify that I can use them in the kitchen or when camping, etc.

In this scenario, I'm aiming for a very minimalist tool set for the occasional project: I'm an occasional hobbyist and not a dedicated woodworker with a luxurious shop and tons of space (maybe one day!), so I just don't have room for tools that I won't be using most of the time. Duplicate tools are out of the question.

That said, "beater tools" versus "good tools" is very relative! The tools I consider my "good tools" (both now and in the past) might very well be "beaters" for someone else. And, some tools that would be considered "beaters" can work just as well as very high end tools so long as the steel is up to the task, and the tool is given whatever attention or elbow grease it needs to become of good service.

[John C Cox]

The trouble I have is that I like using my good tools the best. My good saws cut better than my cheapies. My good chisels hold up *Way* better than my cheapies, etc...

And thus - you see how I have defined "my best".... The ones that work the best are my best tools..... And ironically - "My best tools" are also the ones which hold up best to hard, real life use... And honestly - the wrong tool never holds up well to abuse no matter how good or cheap it is....

I don't have much use for trying to maintain both a set of "Show tools" and a set of "User tools"....

So sure - I understand keeping your best tools out of the hands of abusers.. Or away from chances to damage them.... But that makes a better case for making sure you can use the right tool where it's needed.... .

For example... Neither cheap nor expensive chisels are paint can openers or nail pullers.... No wood saw is up to the task of sawing cement, rocks, or nails.... Neither chisels nor saws are meant to drag around on the floor or slide around on rocks and cement...

Now... In the case of tool stealer/keepers/destroyers... Don't "lend" them anything more than you have to.... And honestly - you don't strictly *have* to lend them anything..... And if you have to - perhaps "lend" them throw away tools knowing that you will never get them back..... I have a nephew who will intentionally try to borrow tools from people when he is doing tasks he is sure will destroy them or he will lose them.. He has his own - but won't use them in these situations... And wants to borrow them from somebody else.... And so he doesn't get tools.... Otherwise... "Here friend, take this fine heirloom Harbor freight chisel...."

In these cases - it's often better to offer to help than to give them the tools anyway.... It's kinda an interesting litmus test..... If he wants to borrow your chain saw - but already has his own... Hmmmmm...... And if he doesn't have any chisels or hand saws - it's pretty likely he doesn't know how to use them - which means he is going to get hurt or destroy them.... And that's a great opportunity to teach somebody how to use stuff...

[Jim Koepke]

Was I the only one expecting to see a crude toolbox build? :D

That thought also came to me as the post was being composed.


But, there's a flip side!

Now, I'm in Japan. I have a really small apartment, and no shop. So what I need are a very small number of good, decent quality tools for small projects, and no excess junk for which I don't have room.

Just as a case can be made for having more tools than one needs, it is also a good case to be made for being a 'minimalist' in one's tool kit.


I don't have much use for trying to maintain both a set of "Show tools" and a set of "User tools"....

My only show tool is an inexpensive hardware store saw on which a country scene is painted. My father gave it to me. It hangs on the wall in my shop over my water stone bench.

Unusable tools are usually relegated to a recycling box. Unused tools are set aside for a time when they can be sold to raise money for something else.

jtk

[Georg Zudoff]

I would like to walk with my wife, as Mr. Koepke does looking the photo. So it's better for me make something for my friends with my tools and not to borrow them. Every tool must have only one owner, I think.

[Bill Houghton]

I make a slightly different distinction, based on how I find myself spending my retirement: carpentry tools and shop tools. Even there, if I'm doing something precise, like fine cutting wood trim, the shop tools come out.

But it's nice to have, say, chisels that I can pound on when doing rough carpentry work - these are the once-ubiquitous Stanley yellow-handled No. 60s - and shop chisels. Same with combination squares, although there I particularly like my Millers Falls No. 1200 (think that's the model #) for carpentry: cast iron head, and rule marked no finer than 1/16".

[Rick Potter]

It's not just hand tools.

I have a friend and his dad, who are framing carpenters, and who have done a lot of work for me over 30 some years. I am starting a new garage/bedroom addition, which they will be doing most of the work on. I will be dragging out my 80's Unisaw, and a Craftsman RAS for them to use.

They are ultimate pro's, and friends, but no way do they use my SawStop, the Griz slider, or the perfectly set up DeWalt RAS to work on construction lumber (you may remember that story). They kid me a lot about throwing old plywood with nails on my good stuff, and I kid them in return about not paying them.

[steven c newman]

There are some on this forum..that think ALL the tools I use...are "beater tools" .....

[Jim Koepke]

There are some on this forum..that think ALL the tools I use...are "beater tools" .....

Well, maybe just the eggbeaters. :D

jtk

[bridger berdel]

I have a somewhat love/hate relationship with the idea of beater tools. I like tools, for what they allow me to do, for their link to the past and as objects in their own right. I'm a recidivist tool accumulator in a world awash with orphaned tools. It's a disease. Really, i have all of the tools i "need" and then some... and some more. I try not to bring home any abjectly junk tools, but a few do slip in via box lots or otherwise attractive tools with hidden but fatal flaws.

I very seldom loan tools. Should a tool be loaned and not come back or come back damaged the loanee goes on the do not lend to list. Most of the time I prefer to gift tools rather than loan them. Anything that creates a little space in the shop is welcome. If a tool really is a beater (or just a duplicate) and the recipient really is deserving i'm happy to see it go.

One trap for me has been the worn but decent tool for way cheap. I bring it home, clean adjust rehab and sharpen it.... then it's no longer a beater.

[ken hatch]

I have a somewhat love/hate relationship with the idea of beater tools. I like tools, for what they allow me to do, for their link to the past and as objects in their own right. I'm a recidivist tool accumulator in a world awash with orphaned tools. It's a disease. Really, i have all of the tools i "need" and then some... and some more. I try not to bring home any abjectly junk tools, but a few do slip in via box lots or otherwise attractive tools with hidden but fatal flaws.

I very seldom loan tools. Should a tool be loaned and not come back or come back damaged the loanee goes on the do not lend to list. Most of the time I prefer to gift tools rather than loan them. Anything that creates a little space in the shop is welcome. If a tool really is a beater (or just a duplicate) and the recipient really is deserving i'm happy to see it go.

One trap for me has been the worn but decent tool for way cheap. I bring it home, clean adjust rehab and sharpen it.... then it's no longer a beater.

Bridger,

Yep, very true.

Berdel's Home for Wayward Tools is open and receiving iron.

ken

[Jerry Olexa]

Agree..Certain "rougher" jobs require a beater.....Why ruin your new LN?

[steven c newman]

Agree..Certain "rougher" jobs require a beater.....Why ruin your new LN?

Yep..them expensive planes just won't hold up to such rough treatment, like most beater planes will....LOL

[Jim Koepke]

Yep..them expensive planes just won't hold up to such rough treatment, like most beater planes will....LOL

Most of my Stanley/Bailey planes do not get used on wet wood. That is a job for my Dunlap.

My better chisels do not get taken out to work on downed trees or wet carving. That is when my fully serviceable 'beater' chisels come out and play. My paring chisels have a nice low angle bevel on them. They are not going to be used on a piece which may have an embedded nail or stone.

So far the hunk of cedar in my OP has yielded up a broken bottle, a piece of pipe and a tennis ball. It would pain me less if the next thing to surface was found by my Dunlap and not one of my Stanley/Baileys.

The exception now is that my better scrub plane is used on dry wood and my #5-1/4 gets used on wet wood.

Just like many other things, if we are going for a yard of potting soil we take the pick-up, not the station wagon.

jtk

[Stew Denton]

Like Jim, I don't have show tools, just ones I use. As mentioned above, I take care of my tools, but have a number of old tools that have been purchased in the last 3 years or so that I have not yet had time to restore. Hopefully I will get to them eventually. The ones that will stay home are just nicer.

I do want my beaters to be completely usable though. I have some like Jim, not too many but some, one I think of right away is a Stanley combination square I have had for many many years, the handle is some kind of gray plastic, and it has a fair size chunk missing. However, it IS SQUARE, I use it a lot. On the other hand the new big box combination square is NOT SQUARE, and when I find it (if I find it...it doesn't get used, so who knows where it is) it will probably just become a 1' metal rule, and the handle will be in the dumpster.

My 4&1/2 point rip is pitted quite a bit, and I don't use it much, but do use it some. I will probably repoint one of my good cross cuts to a 4&1/2 point to replace it. I will probably salvage the saw nuts and handle, the blade is too pitted to make into good scrapers, but I may get a couple out of it. Hopefully get some good out of it.

By my way of thinking a beater was a good tool at one time. Like Jim said, "road hard and put away wet." It may look pretty rough, and may have chips missing or like a an old cresant wrench I found...a bit on the rusty side in small spots, but it had better work, or it will be trash, and the Cresant wrench does work.

I don't consider new cheap and almost useless tools beaters, I consider them junk. My 40 year old gents saw looks fine, and it can be used, even though the blade is thicker than I like, but when sharpened up it does cut just fine, but a tad bit slower than one of the Disston thin bladed back saws.

Stew

[Jim Koepke]

On the other hand the new big box combination square is NOT SQUARE, and when I find it (if I find it...it doesn't get used, so who knows where it is) it will probably just become a 1' metal rule, and the handle will be in the dumpster.

Often these can be fettled to square with a thin file used for cutting away a little metal. Many have raised bosses on either side of the locking bolt. A few swipes and it will be square.

jtk

[Matt Lau]

Do you have beater tool recommendations?

For me, I really like mujinfang planes as beaters.
Works well. HSS steel is very forgiving of stuff like planing plywood, nails, rocks, mdf. Wood won't dent as bad as metal if you drop it.

I also like disposable japanese saws.

[Jim Koepke]

Do you have beater tool recommendations?
[edited]

What ever you can find cheap.

jtk

[Jim Koepke]

Here is a picture of my wife Cand, grandson Jacob, daughter Heather, granddaughter Jennifer and in the front row is grandson Mike.
My image was cut off so only my arm and shoulder show.

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There is still a lot of work to be done before it is finished.

jtk

[Stew Denton]

Steven,

There are some of us who think you have some pretty good tools, and even if you start out with something that might be considered a beater you seem to be pretty good at making it very functional, and in a fraction of the time it takes me. Your planes in particular, I think you have some very good planes. To me, a restored "beater" restored to excellent functioning, and restored to look half way decent again, like you do when you restore one, (and some of yours end up way better than "half way decent"), can't be classed as a beater.

I have some of what I consider good planes that are a lot like some of yours, well, virtually all of mine are quite a bit like yours. (No new LNs in my herd, this is not to say I have anything against new high quality planes, I just see no need for ME to go the high dollar route for my tools. I LIKE the old Stanley planes.) That said, the vast majority of my woodworking is carpentry, not fine woodworking. I hope to eventually get there, but it won't be any time real soon.

You may have some beaters, but so do a lot of the rest of us, but for me, as long as they work well they have a place in my garage, and they have a definite place in my woodworking and especially in my carpentry plans.

Stew

[Jim Koepke]

I have some of what I consider good planes that are a lot like some of yours, well, virtually all of mine are quite a bit like yours. (No new LNs in my herd, this is not to say I have anything against new high quality planes, I just see no need for ME to go the high dollar route for my tools. I LIKE the old Stanley planes.)

We all have to make our own choices. For me there is a lot of pleasure derived from using a plane that was forgotten for years and then restored in my shop. It often brings more enjoyment than using something new. New tools are usually only purchased when it is difficult to find an old one of the same model for a decent price.

Some folks do not have the time, patience or abilities to rehabilitate an old tool. For them maybe a few hours of overtime and a bit of saving up their funds will get them something made to work right out of the box.

Many of my 'beater' tools work just as well as my 'regular user' tools. As others suggest, they may have an emotional attachment not shared by the others that had a similar rehabilitation. My #5 'beater' is often used in the shop. It is a WW II era #5. It is a fine plane. It is the least favorite of all my #5s, yet it likely gets used as often, if not more, than any of the other #5s in the shop. It sits closer to my bench so it is easier to grab.

jtk

[steven c newman]

My Carpentry days were spent usually in a trench....footers and walls.....that is where you would need beater tools. Spend a bunch of time doing concrete form work...and you soon will have a set of "beaters" in the tool belt. Carried a wide chisel, just for scraping concrete off of forms, to get them ready for the next "pour".

[John C Cox]

Yeah - that will do it in a hurry won't it.... Fiberglass/boat work also puts a beating on tools as does pressure treated/green wood....

[Nicholas Lawrence]

What is it about this job that makes it a “beater” job?

[Jim Koepke]

What is it about this job that makes it a “beater” job?

In my case the tree has grown around a lot of junk. First found was a tennis ball inside the tree. Next was a broken bottle. There is also a piece of iron pipe. No telling how many nails or other detritus is to be found. Also the interior is wet, my better tools are not usually used on wet wood.

Dirty wood is another case relegated to my second tier tools.

jtk

[steven c newman]

Some consider a #5-1/4 a "rough, beater tool" I tend to be a bit different..
390796
Sometimes, depending on the length...I can use it as a small jointer.....and..
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As a smoother. No camber on the iron, either. (Millers Falls No. 11 )

[Chris Fournier]

I am not a believer in beater tools. For me they lead to a beater work ethic. For me. I also don't lend tools of the neander type. I have replaced good tools with better tools and the good tools have become site tools but they ain't beaters by a long shot.

[Nicholas Lawrence]

I am not a believer in beater tools.

That is pretty much where I am. I would use my Stanley hardware store chisels on something like what Jim is doing, but those chisels are sharp, rust free, and would avoid any junk in the timber to the best of my ability. They would not be abused just because they are not my nicest stuff.

[Stew Denton]

Hi All,

This whole thread has gotten me to thinking more about attitudes I have but don't think about often.

One of my planes was definitely in the beater, or worse class. It was an old Ohio #04, but it had a Stanley chip breaker (different dimensions from the Ohio so it could not be adjusted to ANY kind of usable setting and literally could not be used.) The tote was just a ratty old carriage bolt and it was generally in the beater class, and if I remember there were other bad parts, but at least the body didn't look too horrible. I watched the auction site for about 2 years, I think, for parts to restore it to the original condition, and the parts cost significantly more than the plane is worth. Once the original parts were on the plane and the iron was sharp it became a good user, but it is a pain to adjust because the iron is tapered. Why would I do such a thing for a beater? Simple, it was my grandfathers plane and it has his initials on it. My point, I understand the "attachment" factor in restoring beaters.

Jim, I think your point on different situations that folks are in is a good point. Some either can't do the restoring, or don't have time to, and I might add that there are folks who have a lot more money than time. Beyond that it their business what is important to them, and frankly it is none of my business what they want to buy. If I was in their shoes I would probably do exactly the same thing.

I may buy one new LV plane (or some other high quality brand) though, or two, those being specialty planes that are very expensive to buy used, are very difficult to find and even harder to find in restorable condition, if I am going to spend that much, it might as well be on a new high quality plane that is ready to go right out of the box. ( I will also look at potentially squaring up my square.)

Steven I have enjoyed your builds, and have thought about a #5&1/4. As you have pointed out it might be a good small jointer plane for smaller projects. I did not know, however, that sometimes a number 5&1/4 plane might be considered a beater just because of the odd size of the plane. Is this just because they were used a lot by kids in manual training classes in high school? I have never used, handled, or even seen a #5&1/4 plane, but your posts have made me think one might be a very useful size.

Finally, Bill, just like you, I eventually want a set of tools that can go with me traveling to carpentry work and a set to use only in the shop. My carpentry tools, like yours will have chisels like the old Stanley #60 that you can use with a hammer instead of with a mallet, and other tools that are better suited to the rougher use, as Steven mentioned, that sometimes goes with carpentry.

Regards,

Stew

[Jim Koepke]

That is pretty much where I am. I would use my Stanley hardware store chisels on something like what Jim is doing, but those chisels are sharp, rust free, and would avoid any junk in the timber to the best of my ability. They would not be abused just because they are not my nicest stuff.

None of my tools beaters or otherwise are abused. They have a purpose and are used for their purpose.

My beaters are as sharp as my favored planes and chisels.

jtk