Marking gauge question

[Rob Luter]

I’m considering pulling the trigger on a Tite Mark. How well do the cutting wheels work on White Oak, my primary material? I’m worried it won’t be effective.

[Timothy MacMurtrie]

I have a tite mark gauge and it does well across the grain but I find it tends to walk when going with the grain but repeated light strokes helps to prevent that
My personal preference overall is standard marking gauge with a point for going with the grain and a pin with a knife edge for across the grain

[Jim Koepke]

I’m considering pulling the trigger on a Tite Mark. How well do the cutting wheels work on White Oak, my primary material? I’m worried it won’t be effective.

In my opinion, it works well. My recollection is the blades are A2 steel. Mine has been used a lot, not in oak, but some other hard woods. Recently dropped it on the floor. That got me to order a couple of new blades so there will be a new one if/when the next one gets beyond being able to be sharpened.

In my estimation you will be happy to have it. Lately, even with a few other marking gauges my thoughts have been to buy a second gauge and a few of the various blades available.

jtk

[Randy Chesnut]

I quite agree with the grain orientation and light strokes statements. I really like the Japanese bladed markers for across the grain marking but can make the wheel-types work on difficult grain or hard wood by using repeated, gentle strokes. This doesn't work as well when the gauge is fully extended.

One word of caution, however. I strongly suggest avoiding moving your other hand to near the marking wheel to help guide it or to apply downward pressure on it. No matter how soft the wood, the pulp of your index finger is softer, and these cuts can result in serious wood staining. Don't ask me how I know.....

[Jim Koepke]

One word of caution, however. I strongly suggest avoiding moving your other hand to near the marking wheel to help guide it or to apply downward pressure on it.

Also be careful in holding one hand near the end of the mark. Often when using a marking gauge or even an Odd Jobs to mark with a pencil the work is either held using a vise or just a stop. It is like having a third hand.

jtk

[Derek Cohen]

I have both Tite-Mark and Veritas wheel gauges. Two rules with both: sharpenen the blades regularly, and always make the first stroke light, with progressive pressure over a couple of strokes. Sharp blades leave a cleaner line. I remove the cuttr and lap it a few times across a worn/fine 600 grip diamond stone.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[glenn bradley]

The only gauges I have kept are wheel gauges. As Derek says, keep 'em sharp (it's simple) and no worries. A Tite-Mark clone and the LV stainless with the offset head are my go-to's.

[Brandon Speaks]

I have both Tite-Mark and Veritas wheel gauges. Two rules with both: sharpenen the blades regularly, and always make the first stroke light, with progressive pressure over a couple of strokes. Sharp blades leave a cleaner line. I remove the cuttr and lap it a few times across a worn/fine 600 grip diamond stone.

Regards from Perth

Derek

I have been planning on getting another gauge, I have the veritas and like it, I hear great things about the tite-mark too. Any pros or cons you see between those two other than cost?

[chris carter]

I have the Veritas mortise gauge. The nice thing about it is that it's like having two gauges because you can set both wheels. So that's the one that sits in my tool tray all the time. That said, I find that it can be tricky doing any kind of marks that have some depth because it's easy to loose registration. So anything slightly deep, I go back to one of my shop-made pin gauges.

[Derek Cohen]

I have been planning on getting another gauge, I have the veritas and like it, I hear great things about the tite-mark too. Any pros or cons you see between those two other than cost?

Hi Brandon

Essentially, the wheel gauges are simple tools. They are able to be adjusted with one hand, and the head/fence is small and the screw is close to the fingers. They do not even need a fine adjuster - they work with less hassle this way. Use finger tips to "squeeze" the adjustment - and, indeed, my favourite version does not have one. This is the stainless steel Anniversary Veritas, but unfortunately these were made for a short time only. The new Veritas with the fine adjuster is essentially the same gauge ... but with an added fine adjuster. The one gripe I have about the fine adjuster on this model is that the adjuster screw can twist around the stem out of alignment with the main screw. This does not affect the adjuster, but it makes the process less intuitive. Still, it is a great gauge which has a larger fence than the TM, and is quicker to set as one can by-pass the fine adjuster.

The SS version ...

https://s19.postimg.cc/9h5qwuxsz/A5_zpsc5c4fd82.jpg

The new Veritas fine adjuster model ...

https://s19.postimg.cc/nouqsg337/gauge1_zpsjlvujzlp.jpg

One-handed adjustment on the Veritas ...

https://s19.postimg.cc/d601a2x7n/image011a.jpg

The Tite-Mark has set the standard for wheel gauges, both with-and without fine adjusters. It is beautifully made and feels like a finely oiled machine in the hand. The fine-adjuster is tghe best - really easy to use with one hand (where the Veritas needs two hands) ..

https://s19.postimg.cc/4p0iz5sir/image012a.jpg

The fence on the TM is smaller, but in practice I do not find this to be a disadvantage for the small stuff it is designed to be used on. My only gripe about the TM is that it is designed to be used with the fine adjuster, and setting it quickly (without the adjuster) is less easy than the Veritas.

https://s19.postimg.cc/c53p5my77/image.jpg

All this makes the original Veritas an absolute bargain.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Koepke]

I have been planning on getting another gauge, I have the veritas and like it, I hear great things about the tite-mark too. Any pros or cons you see between those two other than cost?

Here is a link to a comparison I did over eight years ago.

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?133966

I do not know what changes have been made to the Veritas, but my satisfaction with the Tite-Mark® has me contemplating purchasing another.

jtk

[David Bassett]

... I do not know what changes have been made to the Veritas, but my satisfaction with the Tite-Mark® has me contemplating purchasing another....

Comparing your review to the listing at LV, the design has changed. The micro-adjust is now at the end of the shaft. It looks easier to use, but definitely requires two hands:

http://www.leevalley.com/us/images/item/Woodworking/MarkMeasure/05N3631s1.jpg (http://www.leevalley.com/us/Wood/page.aspx?p=75849&cat=1,42936)

[Jim Koepke]

Comparing your review to the listing at LV, the design has changed. The micro-adjust is now at the end of the shaft. It looks easier to use, but definitely requires two hands:

The travel of the adjustment is 1/4" which some may find a bit limiting. It does look like the off center design will help to prevent it rolling off the bench.

The big deal to me is that the rod with the adjuster can be bought separately for those wanting to upgrade their older gauges.

jtk

[Ted Phillips]

I highly recommend the Tite Mark as well. I have three of them. The circular cutters can be rotated to put a sharp edge down and can easily be resharpened. They can wander when working along the grain, but like Timothy says, just use light pressure and a few passes. They are fantastic tools.

TedP

[Tom Trees]

Sorry if I missed it, but I don't see any wheels with opposing bevels...
I thought about getting another marking gauge, one that I can drop down flush as pictured by Derek, as the cheap knockoff one I have, has a round head screw on the end, making this not possible.
If I did get another, I think I will set the old one to have an opposing bevel, as I don't have a thicknesser,
I could mark out mortises from a single face, instead of having to have two faces surfaced parallel.
If one were to have visible mortises it would be a more precise method, as I have found out.
Tom
390590

[David Eisenhauer]

Do the Tite Mark mortising cutter sets have opposing bevels?

[Ted Phillips]

Yes, Tite Mark offers a variety of mortising cutter sets for its gauges. They are all excellent.

[Jason Martin Winnipeg]

Is this what you mean by opposing bevels?

http://www.leevalley.com/en/Wood/page.aspx?p=67466&cat=1,42936

[Rob Luter]

Yes, Tite Mark offers a variety of mortising cutter sets for its gauges. They are all excellent.

This is one of the reasons I’m considering Tite Mark. The projects I undertake usually utilize M&T joinery.

[Derek Cohen]

I cannot recommend the morticing blades for the Tite Mark. The Tite Mark is terrific, and I love wheel gauges. However, one wheel on it own leaves a lightish mark in end grain. Two wheels used together (as the morticing heads are) leave a very light mark in end grain. I not only have tried the dedicated "heads" (not sure what to call them) from TM, but also the individual combinations you set yourself. I have used them on the TM, Veritas, and my own wheel gauge. It is the same. It is the wheel and not the gauge.

Veritas have a double arm gauge, and this works better as each wheel is used on its own. I like the concept, but I have not enjoys the reversed bevel wheel, which does not cut as smoothly for me as the standard wheel. Still, it is a very good gauge.

My opinion is that one does not need a reversed wheel at all since these blades are so thin and leave a thin line (keep them sharp). It is extremely difficult to tell a reversed from standard bevel blade in practice. In fact, I would switch out the reversing wheel on the Veritas for a standard bevel if it did not lose the set up advantage. What I often do is use two single gauges.

The best gauge for a marking mortices is a pin gauge. They leave the clearest marks in end grain. Second to this is the Japanese double cutting gauge. Some would argue that these should be first, however they leave a wider mark owing to a deeper bevel on the blades. They are wonderful when used lightly. That I consign them to third (for mortices only) is painful as I love my Kinshiro.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jeff Ranck]

so I'm unclear what order you feel works best. 1) pin gauge, 2)? and 3) Japanese double cutting. Is that right? Am I missing something?

Jeff.

[Derek Cohen]

Jeff, for mortices, in order of preference (first to last): pin gauge, Japanese cutting gauge, single wheel gauge, double arm wheel gauge, mortice heads for wheel gauge.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jeff Ranck]

Perfect. I've always disliked the traditional European pin gauges because there is so much wood that sticks out in front of the gauge that can get in the way of visibility. I like gauges where the cutter is out on the end (wheel, Japanese cutting, etc.).

[Robert Hazelwood]

Wheel gauges leave such a fine line that you can lose sight of it when made along the grain in a wood like oak. If the mark coincides with a pore then it is almost impossible to tell precisely where the mark is. Red oak is absolutely the worst for this, white oak is a little better. Pin gauges, which I don't normally like much, are better here. You can get around the problem with wheel gauges if you place blue tape over the section you want to mark.

[Mike Allen1010]

I have both Tite-Mark and Veritas wheel gauges. Two rules with both: sharpenen the blades regularly, and always make the first stroke light, with progressive pressure over a couple of strokes. Sharp blades leave a cleaner line. I remove the cuttr and lap it a few times across a worn/fine 600 grip diamond stone.

Regards from Perth

Derek


+1 - Marking gauges are some of the most valuable/most used tools in my shop, and I find it extremely helpful to have 3 – 4 available for simultaneous use on any project. Nice to be able to layout DT baselines, tenon shoulders, chamfer guidelines etc. in a smooth workflow without having to reset the marking gauge.

I have both Asian gauges with cutting blades and Western-style gauges with circular cutters and to my mind the biggest difference is the ability with Western/wheel gauges to very accurately adjust the distance from the fence to the blade. IMHO, for most joinery this is the critical dimension. I'm a particular fan of the LV marking gauge with threaded adjustment fittings that allowed dialing in precise measurements. Although the blade style cutters may leave a truer/clearer line both with and cross grain, if I can't put that line exactly where I want it that's not really an advantage for me.


Regarding marking lines > 1" or so off the reference edge, I find a panel gauge with a 9 mm pencil to be my best option. For me, these scenarios are typically marking out width for ripping. The pencil in the panel gauge doesn't follow the grain, and is easier for me to see a pencil mark than a marking gauge cut. Personally, I think panel gauges are one of the most valuable layout tools for hand tool woodworker (no table saw, no rip fence), then again, I'm old and fat, so maybe others see the marking gauge line just fine.


Best, Mike

[Jim Koepke]

[edited]

Regarding marking lines > 1" or so off the reference edge, I find a panel gauge with a 9 mm pencil to be my best option. For me, these scenarios are typically marking out width for ripping. The pencil in the panel gauge doesn't follow the grain, and is easier for me to see a pencil mark than a marking gauge cut. Personally, I think panel gauges are one of the most valuable layout tools for hand tool woodworker (no table saw, no rip fence), then again, I'm old and fat, so maybe others see the marking gauge line just fine.


Best, Mike

For pencil marks, either a sharp pencil is used to follow a gauged line or my Odd Jobs is used to make the pencil line.]

In some situations a Stanley #45 with a slitting blade is used for a panel gauge.

jtk