SCM SI 16 SF small slider set up from scratch

[Warren Lake]

Had posted yesterday on the riving knife and going on to set up. Previous owner had moved the top on the saw before i picked it up thinking id want to take it off to break the saw down. Or not thinking.

Yesterday I posted that there is no adjustment on the sliding fence. I looked at it again and see no adjustment but the bar it slides onto has oversized holes and you can move the bar which changes the parallel to the blade. I see three set up adjustments on this. Its level now and im not bothering with the extension tables yet. Likely they will be cut and size changed and the saw will likely move.

1 Four bolts hold the table top and allow it to pivot around a fair bit
2 The ripping fence is adjustable from the bolts that hold the bar allowing you to move the bar position which changes the fence
3 Sliding table assembly, not sure what the adjustments are yet but see this as a third stage

At this point I see setting it up like a cabinet saw first getting the ripping aspect correct rip fence parallel to the blade. I know about the tow out set up as recommended on the Altendorf stuff. .05 mm on a meter. Ive never put a number on it just an ear thing. Think I read a blade has whip in it running, the front edge not so as its into material as you cut

I had one thought that maybe I should locate center point on each of the adjustments and start from there. I also thought maybe I should make the blade parallel to the either of the edges of the table insert or to the outside edge of the saw left side either one make them parallel to start. I have a few wood inserts with slots cut in them put one on but seems he was using blades that were thinner kerf than what I have.

I put a 12 inch blade on and a 14 and it was clear that the 14" blade was more true. Arbor was out minimal have to look it up sort of remember .0015. I think you have to load it up to accurately measure that so its under pressure like it would be with a blade on.

What is the starting point for set up? did they come from the factory with the top located on the base and you didnt touch that then set up went on from there? I would think so Any help appreciated.



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[David Kumm]

Warren, that saw is different than the SI 12 or my SI 16WA. Pictures of the sliding table and support would help. Is the table supported on a round bar rather than a subtable? If so, there should be eccentric bolts and or shims to adjust the bar. If the bar is adjustable, I would start with the fixed table. Line it up with the blade and adjust the rip fence. Then tilt the saw to 45 and check that the zero point tilt is adjusted. If not, the front or back of the fixed table needs to be adjusted. Once that is done, I'd move to the slider and adjust the bar and level the outrigger. Dave

[Warren Lake]

sliding table is on a bar, sure the bar can be moved or the mounting bolts ive left that as it was. Saw running guy has it for years says its bang on never changed there is some value in that provided his idea of square is the same as mine.

The table itself is also adjustable on six eccentric bearings. My thinking might be wrong on starting on the rip fence side first, looking at an Altendorf set up they do the sliding table first. I dont see that for this saw. I see starting it as a cabinet saw getting that on track then going to the sliding table. I get you guys rip on the big sliding table and this one is limited. I want it set up like a cabinet saw first as thats what ive used many years one for ripping one set up for cross cutting.

I dont understand the 45 thing you have mentioned. I tilt the blade to 45 degrees and there is a stop, if its set up so it rips straight and true off the rip fence are you saying that is going to change when I have the blade tilted? Dont get that if so I would have thought its all the same tilted or not once its parallel.

[David Kumm]

If the owner had the sliding table on and the crosscut fence stopped so it can be put on at exactly 90, I'd test it and then adjust the fixed table. When you tilt the blade to 45 and cut, the edge should still be square- as square as at 90. If not, the table is high either in front or in back as the angled blade is either cutting at front or back. When the cut is square, the rip fence numbers should match the long dimension and the crosscut numbers should match the short end if the tilt is zero point correct. I worry mainly about getting the angled cut square. Dave

[Warren Lake]

ive started on the rip fence. Full movement that can be done with that is .100. So ill locate it at .050 in the middle then see how that lines to the blade. Thanks on the 45, right or wrong im going to start on the right side and do the carriage seperate. Ive disturbed how that was set when I took a few bearings out to clean all that and order new stuff.

Do you think on a slider you can expect that the factory set up the base and top properly and its up to you toi do the rest when its in place or can you not even depend on that?

[David Kumm]

I never assume anything is correct on a new or used machine. I've seen stuff screwed up more often than not given that a little off can be a lot and errors always compound, never offset. An old cast iron machine that was used and loved is always my best bet, mainly because they travel well without losing their settings. With many machines, the trip will require them to be adjusted even if they left the factory set up well. Dave

[Warren Lake]

thanks

I took the rail from the ripping fence and centered it on its travel using a dial. I figure being in the middle of each aspect of set up allows you to go either way. Top next think ill line it up to the insert edge and see if that is parrallel to the blade. its just seeing what i have to work with at this point and not having done this before different than the cabinet saws with the sliding table aspect.

[Warren Lake]

as a starting point I lined the rip fence up to the right edge of the table insert slot. Got that accurate to .001. Right or wrong I wanted a reference.

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Checked the 14 blade cranked all the way up and it was accurate to about .001 on the plate when rotated so thats good to use it to set the blade to the fence.

Got that to about .002 heal out on the fence, still bit too much then put the metal insert in. Right away i could see I was not centered on the insert. Thought that should be okay unless when you tilt the blade the nut hits so back to loosen the top and re do the set up so the blade is centered in the slot then try tilting it again. Hopefully it clears at that point with 45 degrees and the blade up all the way.

Not fussing with the riving knife at this point. It was shimmed out originally when i took the block off but I also thought it wont move far enough over the right so I can at least try having it press the material to the fence. hopefully this is sensible.

[Warren Lake]

moved the top so the blade was centered in the metal insert then made it parallel to the fence. Measured off the blade plate and also using one same tooth to the front and back. Moved the fence in so it just contacted an off cut hand rotating at the front then did the same on the back then ripped with it running and checked front and back. Seems to be exact same front and back of the blade. Little hard to be accurate with the dial when the ripping fence is out a bit in the blade area as the base is sitting in a high spot then you take the dial forward and its in a low fence spot. Still the dial is perfect for moving the top, you pivot the top you can see instantly how much you are moving without that its just guessing.

Whats the deal on blade speed? its set on 4,500 now I have the 14" blade on. I didnt have it fully raised but im surprised how quiet it is and the saw itself feels smooth. Im thinking I look at the two drive belts and maybe replace them with Cog belts. I have them on two shapers and they feel better than other belts. The expensive ones on the cabinet saw stink they are hard and inflexible and you can hand turn he blade and let it go and it moves half a rotation. Have to take the belts off to see how they feel.

Riving knife on now the old one can see it doesnt sit straight, its aluminum and not very strong I could bend deflect it easily so my past question are they metal comes to mind. Dave you are the only one posting are the riving knives always metal and what were you talking about on the arbor? did you say you have the blade collars trued up? ill go measure that again.


This is how the inset raised with the blade up at 45 degrees, I centered the blade in the insert but it didnt make much difference still raises the insert

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it was the blade collar pushing the insert up, with this blade it can cut 2 3/4" or bit more at 45 degrees and 4 3/8 at 90. 16" blade more but likely would not fully retract below the table surface so must be why they recommend the 14"

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riving knife with no shims is almost preloading the material to the fence which is what I thought I wanted out of a riving knife. Aluminum and a bit wonky. There are no shims now and I think ill get the mounting block machined so it will set up negative and have to be shimmed out. I could also see drilling and taping the mounting block and putting in four allen screws then you could just adjust them instead of using shims


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you can see its not quite sitting true or likely the mounting block is fine and the riving knife is not true. This one measures .750

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[Warren Lake]

arbor measures

rotating the arbor the dial stayed consistent at zero.

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to measure the blade collar I put a shaper washer in so it was preloaded and held where it would be with a blade mounted

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arbor on the outside edge was .0005 out of true, if that is what you were talking about Dave think this is fine correct?

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[David Kumm]

Is the blade flange on the outboard size the same as the inboard and do both look original? Do you have or have you downloaded the manual for the saw from Parts Pronto to see what the DOC is supposed to be? To verify the runout I also measure the kerf and compare to the tooth width. My 14-16" blades seem to leave a kerf about .004-.008 wider than the tooth. The blade plates are seldom completely flat but if you have a kerf within a few thou of the tooth you are good. 4500 should be the middle speed ? By cogged belt you mean VX and not a linked belt, correct? Link belt would not be appropriate, Cogged VX is good but if the saw is smooth, run it for a while. I can't get to my knife for a day or two but will trace and let you know. I think it is close to the one on Lee's site. Are you sure there is no lateral adjustment for the riving bracket? I don't remember how mine is but my other saws all have some type of adjustment. Dave

[Warren Lake]

here is what I have for the scoring saw blade. Bearings need to be done, it will work fine but hear some noise from time to time. also mising one collar and from the manual there are two different part numbers for the collars, the one bushing that pushes on the bearing is there but rusted in place a bit.

Parts I have, Dave you asked me a while back about shaft size on that

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Bushing in place stuck for now

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one of the two collars that should be there, Dave do you know if this is an inside or outside one, unlike the main blade there is no keyway so easy to tell those which is which

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other side of the collar

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[Warren Lake]

middle speed is 4,500, also 6,000 and 3,200. Blades have a speed rating on them. Is there info somewhere on the speed size aspect? Do have the manual but cant order a part as I dont know which of the two part numbers the one is i have also Parts pronto has a 150.00 starting cost on parts. Think ive done this before where i order several of one part on some other things likely I could have this machined up for the same or less if I knew if it was the same or not, The main blade yes both arbor collars are the same but one has a keyway. Id like to file a mark on the edges so I can figure the most true way to assemble it.

no lateral adjustment I see on the riving knife, did see a european company with the four set screws and they said its good as sometimes there is some tilt in the knife, this one not true anyway I think that is okay to over machine it drill and thread worst case you just use shims anyway but you have the option of loading to the fence which I think I like then you loose the close in the blade feature or maybe not wiht a thicker knife sized right.


these are the belts on two shapers, they feel great compared to regular belts, just less resistance and no memory that the usual ones have. The pulleys are both rusted so ill try and clean them up well take the old ones off see what they look like thinking is nothing was maintained. The amount of grease cake inside made taking the blade up and down a chore. Its fairly on track but turning the blade back from 45 degrees the last five or ten degrees there is too much resistance so likely ive not got it clean enough hopefully nothing damaged, that's why that handle failed. You don't maintain stuff some amount and it can lead to damage of other aspects. Nicest shaper I ever felt was an old beige T160 Maintenance record on the side it felt so good I thought at first there was not belt on it.



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[David Kumm]

Those are good belts. Arbor is 20mm for scoring and 30mm for main blade. Some SCM came with .75 and 1". Is the scoring blade diameter 120mm like the bigger saws or less? I don't know offhand about the flanges but they should be evident when you fit the blade. I run at 4500 most of the time. I think Joe likes the slower speed for ripping but I seldom bother to change. If you swap bearings stay with standard clearance- not C3. Dave

[Warren Lake]

I saw 125 MM for diameter on a parts list but when I called about it I was told 120 MM ill double check that, plans are for the Kanafusa split one, first place I checked didnt carry shims, old days tool and die maker made them for me. . Not there yet but thanks for bringing it up, im stuck on the collar for it till I identify if this is the right or left side if they were the same they should have the same part number and dont. Do you know if your collars are both the same id say there is a good chance even though this is the junior version they are the same.

[Mike Kreinhop]

Not fussing with the riving knife at this point. It was shimmed out originally when i took the block off but I also thought it wont move far enough over the right so I can at least try having it press the material to the fence. hopefully this is sensible.

I must be missing something important about the riving knife. I don't think it's a good idea to use the RK to press material into the fence, but I could be wrong. At least one thread (https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?261465-Sawstop-Riving-Knife) on SMC discusses this and confirms it is not a good idea.

[David Kumm]

Kanefusa makes great blades but you are spending extra as a scoring blade isn't as critical. 120x20 is a common size and you can find good deals on ebay. I found split scorers in the $50 range and they perform as well as my more expensive ones. Keeping the ply tight to the table is half the battle. Split scorers include shims so buying them separately isn't necessary. You do need to make sure the width is adjustable to the width of your blade. Larger blades are at the top end of most scorers limit. conical scorers tend to be used on the big machines. Dave

[Warren Lake]

Mike you are not missing the point. They are new to me and I figured that is one thing they can do. As ive mentioned if I ever used anything it was a finishing nail. One aspect of it is that it keeps the material pressed tight to the fence. Its a welcome thing to have that constant pressure at times. The riving knife once I thought it through has to be centered as one aspect of it is that it stops the material from closing on the blade by being thicker than the blade plate. Off setting it to the right as i thought was done would interfere with that aspect. Ill just have to put in some time on it to know what I think.

Dave thanks for the info on the scorer. ILl save that. I was going through the parts list and it might be the collar is the same as the one I do have. Ill clean that stuff up today.

[Warren Lake]

back on setting up the sliding table and just taking measures. Started setting some stuff up last night and while some measures seemed good the parrallel to the blade was off and so it was running into the heal of the blade more. Adjusting that to be better puts it out of square to the blade.


The sliding table rides on a bar so first though to me was that bar should be parallel to the table top to start this. It wasnt so shimmed up the rear end of it so that its the same. Its all a bit of jazz as there is some table sag at the worst around the blade its down about .005 so though twas make the bar parallel on the front and back and ignore the middle measures for now in the future it can be scraped flatter.

If you want to get picky about this there is wear in the bar from the bearings. I think the best way would be to rotate the bar and have it precision drilled so it could go back on and the bearings ride on a fresh surface, there is some pitting n the bar as well which I can feel but its not perfect but okay as well.

I put the size new bearings in that ride on this three in each block and had to take the blocks out when in turns changes the whole set up and how the table sits on the bar.


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[Larry Edgerton]

I have pretty much that same saw and my way of adjusting it was to clamp the sliding table to two bars also clamped to the table top. I had first loosened up all of the bearings and so now that the top was where I wanted it I adjusted all of the bearings individually, careful not to push the table. When I let it go there was still some minor tweaking, but not much. The manual was of no help, so I was on my own and that seemed logical to me. I adjusted the blade to the slider and the fence to the blade. Worked for me.

[Warren Lake]

having no fun with it, its easy to move stuff a few though with a dial read a change and reclamp but this is a flintstones system for the bearings, you change the height to try and adjust to just the table and you have just moved it out of square again. I thought things were good or potential good Yeah manual is useless be nice for them to have included some aspects of what they want you to do. An order would be nice as well. There are endless adjustments which is good but some interact others dont. IM at the point many hours in of just starting from scratch. With bearings its hit and miss then these bearings can sit different on the bar depending on how far out they extend before you tighten them. Ive always been able to set stuff up and very accurately. Lots of good things there but at the moment im not impressed.