Painted shaker doors - tooling and materials

[mark mcfarlane]

I need to make some painted shaker-style doors for my laundry room cabinet extension that I will hopefully complete today. I still need to cut a few more trim pieces, build some shelves, and do a 3-piece crown build up to match the opposing wall. Here's a quick look at the cabinet carcass.

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The largest door will be ~ 18" * 50". My current thought is to use either poplar or soft maple for the frames, and 1/2 baltic birch for the panels. I'm thinking 1/2" birch just for stability and rigidity. I'd groove the birch panels so they were 1/4 on the edges, or whatever exact thickness I actually need to match the rail and style grooves (some sets are designed for undersized plywood).

Although I have a shaper in my CU300 combo machine, I haven't used it yet, and something similar to the Infinity shaker panel router bit set seems like a reasonable choice for this short run.



What tooling, and wood, have you all used for this type of project?
Any experiences to share with various manufacturers router bit sets?


If this goes well, I'll probably be asked to redo the doors in our kitchen 'some day in the future'.

[Jim Becker]

Shaker style is generally simple to work, but there is no "one style to the style". The reveal between the rails/stiles and the panel, for example, could be at 90º or at some other angle, such as a gentle 15º. I have built both styles...the former is the easiest for obvious reasons as you can actually do it without fancy cutters if you want or need to. The angled face on the reveal is generally done with a cope and stick router/shaper bit set. Mine is from Whiteside and I've had it for about a million years. (bought for my original kitchen renovation back in 2003)

For the panels, 1/2" or 3/4" is traditional, back-cut to fit snugly. There are "Shaker style" back-cutters available...I actually used mine yesterday for a door panel I'm making to refine the fit after I cut the design on the front with the CNC. These back-cutters generally have an angled reveal, but a wider gap. I use 1/2" material to keep a constant thickness to the doors, which is more convenient for cabinet use where shelves are involved. A 3/4" panel will project beyond the rails and stiles in most cases, unless a flush front design is, um...designed.

[Jamie Buxton]

Really, the key construction issue is to glue the panel into the frame. Then the corner joinery can be anything you like -- cope and stick, mortise and tenon, biscuits, dominos, it doesn't matter.

[John Lanciani]

This shaper cutter; https://www.amazon.com/Amana-Tool-Insert-Carbide-Grooving/dp/B000P4NMHO will make all of the cuts you need for what you described. 8mm x 1/2" deep grooves, 8mm x 1/2" tenons, and back cut the 1/2" ply panel to form 8mm tongues. Glue the panel in and the door is bombproof. M preference is for soft maple frames.


This is a perfect project to get familiar with your shaper on

[Jon Nuckles]

Hi Mark,
Are you trying to match the short doors in the picture? If so, I don't think you are looking for a shaker profile, which is much simpler. If you want true shaker doors, you can make them on a table saw. It might be a bit more work to cut the joinery rather than using a cope and stick, but you wouldn't have to buy router or shaper tooling. If you are doing only the laundry area shown in the picture, that's what I'd do. If you do plan to do the kitchen in the same style, you might as well buy now.
Jon

[mark mcfarlane]

Shaker style is generally simple to work, but there is no "one style to the style". The reveal between the rails/stiles and the panel, for example, could be at 90º or at some other angle, such as a gentle 15º. I have built both styles......

I was thinking 90 degrees.

[mark mcfarlane]

Hi Mark,
Are you trying to match the short doors in the picture? If so, I don't think you are looking for a shaker profile, which is much simpler. If you want true shaker doors, you can make them on a table saw. It might be a bit more work to cut the joinery rather than using a cope and stick, but you wouldn't have to buy router or shaper tooling. If you are doing only the laundry area shown in the picture, that's what I'd do. If you do plan to do the kitchen in the same style, you might as well buy now.
Jon

Thanks Jon.

No, I am not trying to match what is there already, which is actually just 3/4 plywood with picture frame molding mitered and applied around it. It's a very simple on-site construction method, and extremely common in the Houston area for custom built homes. Probably takes the trim carpenters all of 3 minutes to make each door.

[mark mcfarlane]

This shaper cutter; https://www.amazon.com/Amana-Tool-Insert-Carbide-Grooving/dp/B000P4NMHO will make all of the cuts you need for what you described. 8mm x 1/2" deep grooves, 8mm x 1/2" tenons, and back cut the 1/2" ply panel to form 8mm tongues. Glue the panel in and the door is bombproof. M preference is for soft maple frames.


This is a perfect project to get familiar with your shaper on

Thanks John for the reference. That's a pretty economical shaper cutter, but might be a pain to repeatedly set up perfectly. Seems like I always have to go back and 'make just one more'. Adding a second cutter to cope the rails might do the trick...

[Jared Sankovich]

Thanks John for the reference. That's a pretty economical shaper cutter, but might be a pain to repeatedly set up perfectly. Seems like I always have to go back and 'make just one more'. Adding a second cutter to cope the rails might do the trick...

I'd get this set from amana (61218) It works better if you cut the full profile and not just the groove. Also with it being adjustable in groove width it has more applications than just shaker doors

https://www.amanatool.com/61218-2-piece-insert-carbide-adjustable-tongue-groove-4-dia-x-1-3-16-x-1-1-4-bore-set.html

[John Lanciani]

I'd get this set from amana (61218) It works better if you cut the full profile and not just the groove. Also with it being adjustable in groove width it has more applications than just shaker doors

https://www.amanatool.com/61218-2-piece-insert-carbide-adjustable-tongue-groove-4-dia-x-1-3-16-x-1-1-4-bore-set.html

I don't disagree at all, but the nice thing about the 8mm groover is it is relatively inexpensive and has lots of uses.

[Rich Engelhardt]

I just finished making 17 doors for a rental.

I used this Whiteside set (https://www.whitesiderouterbits.com/collections/shaker-stile-rail/products/5990).

I bought this set to do another kitchen at another rental.

I'm pretty disappointed in the set BTW - -they got dull real quick. I did less than about 40 doors total & the 17 I just did had a whole bunch of "fuzzy" cuts on the copes.
I'd expected a better lifespan from the Whiteside bits.
I got lucky for the rails and stiles. Some guy on CL was selling a whole bunch of finger jointed 16 foot long pieces of 3/4" thick by 5.5" wide primed poplar molding for like $2 a board. I had to cut them in half so they would fit in the RAV 4, but, no biggie.
I used 5.5 mm underlayment for the panels. (Hey, it's for a rental - I wanted inexpensive...)

[Warren Lake]

you could do a mortise and tennon with your table saw instead of that cutter set. Nothing to buy and a stronger joint.

[Jared Sankovich]

I don't disagree at all, but the nice thing about the 8mm groover is it is relatively inexpensive and has lots of uses.

The cost isn't bad, but it's about half way to a 2 pc adjustable groover, or about 1/3 of the 3 pc 4-15.5mm adjustable versions. Those each have more utility than a fixed 8mm.

[mark mcfarlane]

If I'm going for shaper tooling, would something like this 55mm insert set from Whitehill (http://www.whitehill-tools.com/catalogue.php?pid=3493&cid=1&c2id=76) be a good choice, for $310 + shipping, for the 125mm diameter steel combi/rebate head with 55mm profile and limiter inserts?

And which one of the 4 Whiteside shaper heads would be appropriate for my 5HP CU300? In the 1 1/4" heads, it looks like I have a choice of (1) 96mm aluminum, (2) 96 mm steel, (3) 125mm steel, and (4) 125mm steel with rebate knives.



What do the limiters do on this type of head? I assume they somehow prevent you from making cuts that are 'too deep', but are at least as deep as the profile calls for,...


Or maybe this 40mm Amana aluminum kit which includes the T&G inserts (https://www.amazon.com/Amana-Tool-SCS-1104-Multi-Piece-Profile/dp/B000P4QA3M), for $252. The Whitehill setup seems like a better deal, unless shipping is exorbitant

I'm clueless about shaper tooling.

[Jim Becker]

I really like the idea of insert cutters (using them on my CNC for my v-bits already) since they provide a lot of variety with a single head and are less expensive over the long term when new cutting surfaces are required.

I personally like the Amana products, but those Whitehill units do look nice. (I've never heard of that brand, however)

[Robert Engel]

Shaker doors can simply be a tongue and groove with no profile, or profiled. They can even be done on a table saw.

I have used poplar to build a set for a bathroom vanity. I used the shaker bit set sold by Mark Sommerfeld. I like the profile, but you won't need a panel raising bit.

I would go with a simple design, just a T&G bit.

1/4" material is adequate for the panels. But I would be careful using plywood when painting. Depending on the quality, I've had the veneer bubble when using water based paint.

Not a big fan, but this is one case where 1/4" MDF would be a consideration for the panels. It paints much better than plywood and is gives a bit more weight to the door.

[Jared Sankovich]

If I'm going for shaper tooling, would something like this 55mm insert set from Whitehill (http://www.whitehill-tools.com/catalogue.php?pid=3493&cid=1&c2id=76) be a good choice, for $310 + shipping, for the 125mm diameter steel combi/rebate head with 55mm profile and limiter inserts?

And which one of the 4 Whiteside shaper heads would be appropriate for my 5HP CU300? In the 1 1/4" heads, it looks like I have a choice of (1) 96mm aluminum, (2) 96 mm steel, (3) 125mm steel, and (4) 125mm steel with rebate knives.



What do the limiters do on this type of head? I assume they somehow prevent you from making cuts that are 'too deep', but are at least as deep as the profile calls for,...


Or maybe this 40mm Amana aluminum kit which includes the T&G inserts (https://www.amazon.com/Amana-Tool-SCS-1104-Multi-Piece-Profile/dp/B000P4QA3M), for $252. The Whitehill setup seems like a better deal, unless shipping is exorbitant

I'm clueless about shaper tooling.

The whitehill 125mm combination head seems like a nice unit from a well known and respected UK manufacturer.

I would not get the amana kit, but instead would suggest the 120mm steel head from amana and a set of t&g knives from CMT ($14). If you want more versatility, I would also pick up a rebate head (the 120x60mm amana alternating shear works head extremely well and is relatively inexpensive)



The profile heads are very versatile.
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[mark mcfarlane]

I'd get this set from amana (61218) It works better if you cut the full profile and not just the groove. Also with it being adjustable in groove width it has more applications than just shaker doors

https://www.amanatool.com/61218-2-piece-insert-carbide-adjustable-tongue-groove-4-dia-x-1-3-16-x-1-1-4-bore-set.html

That does like a good set with adjustable tongue and groove thickness.

I wonder if I would be better off with a more basic multi-purpose 'replaceable profile' set. I will be hand feeding this, and am having trouble finding a MAN rated profile head.

[mark mcfarlane]

The whitehill 125mm combination head seems like a nice unit from a well known and respected UK manufacturer.

I would not get the amana kit, but instead would suggest the 120mm steel head from amana and a set of t&g knives from CMT ($14). If you want more versatility, I would also pick up a rebate head (the 120x60mm amana alternating shear works head extremely well and is relatively inexpensive)



The profile heads are very versatile.




Jared, my 5HP CU300 is beafy enough for a 120mm steel head?

Where do people purchase their knives and heads from? Amazon has the 50mm steel Amana head (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000P4UOXO/?coliid=I814F38LJKY42&colid=2MX6NNPHAO36&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it). I didn't see a 40mm head.

[Jared Sankovich]

That does like a good set with adjustable tongue and groove thickness.

I wonder if I would be better off with a more basic multi-purpose 'replaceable profile' set. I will be hand feeding this, and am having trouble finding a MAN rated profile head.

You will have just as much trouble finding knives with limiters here in the US. Some use man rated heads, but the vast majority (in the US) don't. I've never even seen a limited corrugated head.

[Jared Sankovich]

Jared, my 5HP CU300 is beafy enough for a 120mm steel head?

Where do people purchase their knives and heads from? Amazon has the 50mm steel Amana head (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000P4UOXO/?coliid=I814F38LJKY42&colid=2MX6NNPHAO36&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it). I didn't see a 40mm head.

Its amana part number #61248.

I get heads from amazon (router bit world, toolstoday) or oella saw. There are lots of places to get knives, depending on what you are looking for.

[mark mcfarlane]

Its amana part number #61248.

I get heads from amazon (router bit world, toolstoday) or oella saw. There are lots of places to get knives, depending on what you are looking for.

Thanks Jared. Do you think this Amana 125mm*50mm*30mm rebate head (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000P4UOXO/?coliid=I814F38LJKY42&colid=2MX6NNPHAO36&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it) would work on 1/2" baltic birch? I'm a little concerned about using 1/4" MDF for the two larger doors I need to make: 18"*50"

[Jared Sankovich]

Thanks Jared. Do you think this Amana 125mm*50mm*30mm rebate head (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000P4UOXO/?coliid=I814F38LJKY42&colid=2MX6NNPHAO36&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it) would work on 1/2" baltic birch? I'm a little concerned about using 1/4" MDF for the two larger doors I need to make: 18"*50"

BB shouldn't be a problem the knives and nickers are carbide.

1/2 mdf would work as well in your application. I don't like 1/4 for panels myself.

[Martin Wasner]

Baltic Birch doesn't paint well in my experience.

[brent stanley]

Jared, my 5HP CU300 is beafy enough for a 120mm steel head?

Where do people purchase their knives and heads from? Amazon has the 50mm steel Amana head (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000P4UOXO/?coliid=I814F38LJKY42&colid=2MX6NNPHAO36&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it). I didn't see a 40mm head.

Hi Mark, I own both the larger and smaller Whitehill combi head and if you're new to shapers and don't expect to get into huge production, they are an extremely versatile head that serves many functions for a fraction of the price of separate heads! You get top tier performance from a world renown manufacturer, using tooling that meets much higher standards for safety than a lot (not all) of North American manufacturers. You could easily run their larger combi head which opens up a lot of doors for you. Once you own the head, the different knives are peanuts. I did a video on the larger combi head...but I'm no videographer!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Z7DMBfzluY&t=57s

[brent stanley]

You will have just as much trouble finding knives with limiters here in the US. Some use man rated heads, but the vast majority (in the US) don't. I've never even seen a limited corrugated head.

Hi Jared, Whitehill will have them in the mail to you in a day if they're on the shelf, and not much longer if they have to grind them to your profile. They have a number of hopper fed, automated CNC grinders for profiles that they leave run over night.

Here's an example of MAN rated corrugated head with limiters. Very versatile.

Cheers,

Brent

http://www.whitehill-tools.com/catalogue.php?cid=2&c2id=22

[brent stanley]

BB shouldn't be a problem the knives and nickers are carbide.

1/2 mdf would work as well in your application. I don't like 1/4 for panels myself.

That's a basic rebate block which is one of the main roles of the Whitehill combi head. It's essentially a fully featured rebate block (shear cut, with nickers top and bottom) as well as a multi profile MAN rated limiter head and with a stub arbour for your shaper, it can work as a one sided tenor allowing you to make full length tenons in solid wood with a scribed (coped) shoulder if you want. Tremendous bang for your buck....

B

[Jared Sankovich]

it can work as a one sided tenor allowing you to make full length tenons in solid wood with a scribed (coped) shoulder if you want. Tremendous bang for your buck....

B

If you have a stub spindle, or are willing to run it at the top (and you have a internally threaded spindle.)

I agree it's a nice head. Not as nice as the rangate multi use head but a order of magnitude cheaper.

[Warren Lake]

sand it, first coat of primer reduced and block the coat off completely, it fills all the pores then carry on. It is a times crappy material ive had it before with sanding ripples in it and had to hard block it. One antique stuff I want the pores to come back through so it doesnt look like flat dead clinical MDF.

[mark mcfarlane]

Hi Mark, I own both the larger and smaller Whitehill combi head and if you're new to shapers and don't expect to get into huge production, they are an extremely versatile head that serves many functions for a fraction of the price of separate heads! You get top tier performance from a world renown manufacturer, using tooling that meets much higher standards for safety than a lot (not all) of North American manufacturers. You could easily run their larger combi head which opens up a lot of doors for you. Once you own the head, the different knives are peanuts. I did a video on the larger combi head...but I'm no videographer!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Z7DMBfzluY&t=57s

Thanks Brent. A couple questions:

1) Do the Whitehall heads take the Amana or CMT knives. I don't mind the overseas shipping for a head, but I suspect it could get costly for a single knife profile. I also wonder of Trump's new steel tariff will change the price... :(

2) It looks like the combi heads are the same as the limiter heads, with a built-in knickers to cleanly cut the corners of a rebate. Is that correct? Anything else to know about the combi heads?

[brent stanley]

Thanks Brent. A couple questions:

1) Do the Whitehall heads take the Amana or CMT knives. I don't mind the overseas shipping for a head, but I suspect it could get costly for a single knife profile. I also wonder of Trump's new steel tariff will change the price... :(

2) It looks like the combi heads are the same as the limiter heads, with a built-in knickers to cleanly cut the corners of a rebate. Is that correct? Anything else to know about the combi heads?

Hi Mark,

Regarding #1 - The commonly available knives from Amana, CMT, Dimar etc will actually fit in both heads (24mm pin spacing, with 3mm pin radius) but because of the larger radius of the larger head, the profile portion of the knife doesn't extend out past the block far enough to be usable. However those knives are perfect for the the smaller of the two combi heads.....in fact I would say it's designed for those knives. The knives for the larger head are the 55mm high knives that Whitehill (and others) produce and extend out a little farther. If you want to use a knife from this side of the pond, the odds are the limiters won't come with the profile, so you can stick a filler into the limiter portion and run it like that though of course it negates all the safety aspects of the limiter head. If I have an extremely short run I will just buy the cutter portion, use a filler and run it with a feeder. If I have a large run to do, or need to do it by hand I buy the limiters....turns into pennies per linear foot of stock run. Also, if you have a long run of material to do in really hard or abrasive material, Whitehill can tip the profile knives (which are normally HSS) in carbide for you. One option is to purchase a whole bunch of blank knives to have ready and have a local grinder shop make whatever profile you want whenever you need them.

Regarding #2 - In the combi head there are slots to insert cutters for whatever profile you may want....tongue and groove, roundover, beads, coves, cope/stick etc etc etc. When you need a regular every day rebate block (one of the most commonly used blocks) all you do is take out those knives and use the head as a rebate block with spurs (nickers). The carbide knives for the rebate function are in different slots and the way the head is designed, you don't ever have to take the carbide knives and nickers out except for when it's time to replace them. They don't get in the way of using the head as a limiter head. The two-sided carbide knives are oriented for a shear cut as well which is really nice and last forever....I have yet to replace mine!

If you don't have a stub arbour for using the block as a one-sided tenor, but think you might get one in the future, talk with David at Whitehill and he'll get you set up with a block that will accept the stub arbour for your machine in the future. If the manufacturer of your machine doesn't make a stub arbour he can suggest the best way to counterbore the top of your block in anticipation of the most common methods of securing the block. Of course it can be used just like a normal block in the interim.

Also, if you get a template bearing with it, you can use the block as a template or pattern milling head. It works very well for this with the shear cut knives.

Hope this helps,

Brent

[mark mcfarlane]

Hi Mark,

Regarding #1 - ...,

Brent


Thank you Brent. Helpful points about Amana et. al. not having the limiters, and the issue of projection.

[brent stanley]

Thank you Brent. Helpful points about Amana et. al. not having the limiters, and the issue of projection.


I looked into those knives a while ago, and they're all made by one giant company in Germany I believe and are retailed by Felder, CMT, Amana, Dimar and probably others. I expect the limiters are available for them in Europe and it won't be long before they're available here if they aren't already. Those mass produced knives have their role, but they are lower quality steel and since they're made for general use, potentially in many different manufacturer's heads, they are by necessity manufactured with tolerances that leaves a slightly sloppy fit in some heads. I own a bunch of them, and they do a fine job, but don't last as long, and don't produce quite as crisp a profile sometimes. Whitehill uses the much higher quality, industry-standard steel for their pin/limiter knife stock and you can tell when you grind them.

[brent stanley]

Thank you Brent. Helpful points about Amana et. al. not having the limiters, and the issue of projection.

If I were you, I would get the larger combi head counterbored on the top for the stub arbour that your shaper manufacturer sells (the cost of counterboring is included in the price), and a set of five knives of the most common profiles for the work you do. There are companies out there that sell a head and five profiles for a deal, but you don't get to pick the profiles. You end up getting knives that you never use. Whitehill will let you pick the knives and give you a small break on the package deal cost.

One critical thing I didn't mention is that the larger head will also accept 6mm thick knives which opens up a whole new set of doors for you because the thicker steel allows for much larger projections for more complex profiles.

The nice thing about the larger head is you can often fit a number of different profiles on one set of knives for a real cost savings vs. buying different knives. For example you can fit probably 6 different round over radii on one 55mm knife, you can fit both the cope pattern and the stick pattern on one knife for cabinet doors. A profile for your doors would be available off the shelf at Whitehill.

[brent stanley]

If you have a stub spindle, or are willing to run it at the top (and you have a internally threaded spindle.)

I agree it's a nice head. Not as nice as the rangate multi use head but a order of magnitude cheaper.

Good point Jared. The spindles I have in my machines are too tall and won't go down far enough so I need the stub spindle. If one is doing a lot of it, I expect investing in a shorter spindle would be wise anyway, as it puts all the action closer to the top bearing.

[brent stanley]

Thank you Brent. Helpful points about Amana et. al. not having the limiters, and the issue of projection.

I forgot to mention that Felder will actually bring in the cutters and limiters for you. That's where I got mine. I expect if you lean on some other distributers/retailers they will as well.

B

[Joe Acquisto]

I just finished making 40 doors and 20 drawers fronts. I use poplar for the frames and 1/4" MDF for the center panels all the time for painting. Never had a problem.390384

[brent stanley]

I forgot to mention that Felder will actually bring in the cutters and limiters for you. That's where I got mine. I expect if you lean on some other distributers/retailers they will as well.

B

Sharpco will also bring in knives and limiter.

B

[Bill Adamsen]

Bit late to the party and I suspect the doors are painted and perhaps even hung by now. Amana makes a low-cost shaper cutter (the 989) for removing material from the back of otherwise unprofiled panels such as Shaker to dimension to a frame groove. It works nicely. I typically use it on solid wood but I'm sure it would work on engineered wood as well. If using it right-side up (cutting on the bottom of the panel "down") you will need shims as the knives (cutters) would otherwise hit the nut.

[mark mcfarlane]

Bit late to the party and I suspect the doors are painted and perhaps even hung by now. Amana makes a low-cost shaper cutter (the 989) for removing material from the back of otherwise unprofiled panels such as Shaker to dimension to a frame groove. It works nicely. I typically use it on solid wood but I'm sure it would work on engineered wood as well. If using it right-side up (cutting on the bottom of the panel "down") you will need shims as the knives (cutters) would otherwise hit the nut.

Thanks Bill. You're not too late, I haven't ordered the tooling yet. Hopefully today I will, then I have to drive a few hours later this week to get the Maple. My favorite hardwood supplier is across town, which in Houston is similar to traveling to another state. :)

[brent stanley]

I took some time to look through the 2018 duty/tarrif schedule from the UK and I think it falls under heading/Subheading 8466.92.50 which should mean 4.7% duty. Not bad.

https://hts.usitc.gov/?query=Woodworking

B