Need Band Saw ADVICE PLEASE

[Jeff Miller]

First off .....I haven't been on this Forum in quite some time

Got caught up in Rimfire rifle shooting with my own 50 and 100 yd. range

Been over at the Rimfire Central Forums...So after about 14 rifles and scopes...4 handguns I need to get back in the shop

I have a fully equipped woodworking shop just setting there that needs used

I have been looking at the new 14" band saws and would upgrade from my Craftsman that a friend
Of mine comes over and uses and is willing to possibly buy....This is my saw if the pic. shows up

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f32/woodfarmer/shop/shop057.jpg




The two I am looking to replace this is the Rikon 14" Deluxe Bandsaw, Model 10-326 (https://www.woodcraft.com/products/rikon-14-deluxe-bandsaw-model-10-326?via=573621bd69702d0676000002%2C573621e069702d0 676000f61%2C5764018e69702d3ae3000bf8)

https://woodcraft-production-weblinc.netdna-ssl.com/product_images/rikon-14-deluxe-bandsaw-model-10-326/5845cf8a69702d3a1e000351/large_thumb.jpg?c=1480970122



And the Laguna 14 - 12 Bandsaw

https://woodcraft-production-weblinc.netdna-ssl.com/product_images/laguna-14-12-bandsaw/5845cdf269702d3a1e0000ce/large_thumb.jpg?c=1480969714


And I have a lead on This General International in like new condition
(https://www.woodcraft.com/products/laguna-14-12-bandsaw?via=573621bd69702d0676000002%2C573621e0697 02d0676000f61%2C5764018e69702d3ae3000bf8)90-170B │ Deluxe 14" wood cutting bandsaw


http://www.general.ca/images/machines/1_general/90_bandsaw/90-170B.png


The General is 2 1/2 hours away and she wants $1050.00 which I think I can get down to I would hope nine hundred.....Those of you that have this saw is better than the
other two I have listed.

Please give me all the feedback you experts can

And again It's good to be back

Hope this isn't too long:eek::eek::eek::eek:

Thank you guys very much

JEFF:D

[andy bessette]

Found my Delta-X 14" in like new condition, with riser block, Kreg fence and extra blades for $450. Just another to consider.

https://s26.postimg.cc/6w6lt1jgp/delta-bandsaw-1.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[Van Huskey]

All three of these saws are a step up from the venerable 14" cast Delta and the clones. To a degree, the Rikon and Laguna question is somewhat of a coin flip, I prefer the Laguna because I like the guides better, even the upgraded guides on the 10-326. The guides on the 10-325 were rather poor. The GI is overpriced when new as it competes price wise with the 10-353 and 14BX 2.5hp both of which are better saws. It has some rough edges (like changing the blade is a pain and the fence is rather rudimentary in the class) but I am a big proponent of foot brakes on bandsaws. In the end if the GI is pristine I would take it at 900 or under otherwise I would get the Laguna but for some the money saved by getting the Rikon might be the tipping point in its favor.

[Phillip Gregory]

First off .....I haven't been on this Forum in quite some time

Got caught up in Rimfire rifle shooting with my own 50 and 100 yd. range

Been over at the Rimfire Central Forums...So after about 14 rifles and scopes...4 handguns I need to get back in the shop

You really need to get a few decent centerfire handguns, a good shotgun and a couple of remote-controlled electromechanical throwers, a pistol-caliber carbine, and a lever-action rifle chambered for some black powder-era cartridge or a revolver cartridge. You have a 100 yard range, it would be a shame to not use it :D


I have a fully equipped woodworking shop just setting there that needs used

I have been looking at the new 14" band saws and would upgrade from my Craftsman that a friend
Of mine comes over and uses and is willing to possibly buy....This is my saw if the pic. shows up

The two I am looking to replace this is the Rikon 14" Deluxe Bandsaw, Model 10-326 (https://www.woodcraft.com/products/rikon-14-deluxe-bandsaw-model-10-326?via=573621bd69702d0676000002%2C573621e069702d0 676000f61%2C5764018e69702d3ae3000bf8)

https://woodcraft-production-weblinc.netdna-ssl.com/product_images/rikon-14-deluxe-bandsaw-model-10-326/5845cf8a69702d3a1e000351/large_thumb.jpg?c=1480970122



And the Laguna 14 - 12 Bandsaw

https://woodcraft-production-weblinc.netdna-ssl.com/product_images/laguna-14-12-bandsaw/5845cdf269702d3a1e0000ce/large_thumb.jpg?c=1480969714


And I have a lead on This General International in like new condition
(https://www.woodcraft.com/products/laguna-14-12-bandsaw?via=573621bd69702d0676000002%2C573621e0697 02d0676000f61%2C5764018e69702d3ae3000bf8)90-170B │ Deluxe 14" wood cutting bandsaw


http://www.general.ca/images/machines/1_general/90_bandsaw/90-170B.png


The General is 2 1/2 hours away and she wants $1050.00 which I think I can get down to I would hope nine hundred.....Those of you that have this saw is better than the
other two I have listed.

Please give me all the feedback you experts can

And again It's good to be back

Hope this isn't too long:eek::eek::eek::eek:

Thank you guys very much

JEFF:D

Those saws are one step up from your Sears unit. They are better, but not vastly so. Think of why you want a different saw.

If it's because yours is a Sears and you want something better, the ones you listed will be better, but a MiniMax or Inca is MUCH better. I have a Grizzly G0513X2 which is a 17" saw of similar construction and quality as the ones you listed. My Dad has a 14" Rikon which is probably the same unit you posted above, and apart from being smaller than mine, it's very similar. They are solid machines, not awesome, but solid. To get awesome you need to spend a bunch more money, but to be honest you are probably better off in spending extra money on getting better bandsaw blades.

If you want to resaw wood, you want a much larger saw than a 14" saw. You want at least a 20" saw and it should have at least 3 hp if it's a direct drive saw, or 5 hp if it's a belt drive saw. My 17" 2 hp saw with a 2 tpi/3 tpi bimetal bandsaw blade (largest it will easily handle) will resaw the rock-hard old oak barn boards I use in most of my projects easily up to about 4-5" thick. Most of mine are 6" thick and it will resaw them with no barreling or drift but it's a bit slow. Some are 10" thick and although the saw can resaw a 12" thick piece of stock, it's pretty poky resawing the 10"ers. I would have just gotten a big saw right off the bat but a big saw often has issues with running narrow blades for cutting curves, and my bandsaw is a jack of all trades saw, so I picked an intermediate size. It can handle a 1/8" blade OK and with a 3/16" or 1/4" blade, it is a very effective curve cutter.

[Frederick Skelly]

I have the Rikon 10-325. It does everything I ask of it.
Fred

[Matthew Curtis]

You really
If you want to resaw wood, you want a much larger saw than a 14" saw. You want at least a 20"

And why does anyone need a 20" saw in order to resaw? I am sure many people here resaw quite well with smaller than 20" saws. If I am wrong please everyone correct me.

[Phillip Gregory]

And why does anyone need a 20" saw in order to resaw? I am sure many people here resaw quite well with smaller than 20" saws. If I am wrong please everyone correct me.

The larger saws have more power and handle wider blades with coarser tooth pitches, all of which help with resaw performance. My experience with resawing with a 17" saw and in seeing videos of others using much larger saws, the larger saws work much better.

[Van Huskey]

And why does anyone need a 20" saw in order to resaw? I am sure many people here resaw quite well with smaller than 20" saws. If I am wrong please everyone correct me.


One can resaw on a 10" saw if you have the patience and are willing to put in some extra sanding time. Plus wheel size is far from the determining factor, my MM20 will resaw circles around my Delta 28-350 both are 20" saws and my MM16 is a better resaw machine than any of the welded steel 20" Deltas or the PM 8x series. There has probably been more resawing done (by hobbyists) on 14" cast saws than all the other saws combined. It just requires patience and preferably the optimal blade. The one place I will usually suggest at least a 20" wheel is if one wants to use a feeder, the tables on 20" saws are usually just big enough to (almost) comfortably add a feeder. In fact, I think the tables on most 20" saws are a little small. In the end, we all have budgets and find ways to make do with tools and machines that fit our budget.

[andy bessette]

I have a 20" Agazzani with 1" carbide blade for resawing. The 14" Delta is setup with a 1/4" blade for other work, so I never have to change the blade on the 20".

https://s26.postimg.cc/f4srqbcuh/shop-9.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[Tom M King]

As another answer to the why bigger for resawing, with the best resaw blades available for either, a cut my 14" takes longer than 20 seconds to make, takes less than 2 with the 24", and the cut by the 24" has no less quality of cut. The larger the saw, the larger, and thicker, the blade it can turn with bigger teeth. Also, the larger the saw, the higher the blade speed. It's almost like two entirely different machines, and why many of us own more than one bandsaw.

[Nick Decker]

I have the Rikon 10-326, no complaints. I can easily resaw 10" hardwoods, but I've never used a larger saw so I can't say what the difference would be there. While I've used a 3/4" blade on it, it seems happier with a 1/2" or 5/8". The guides work fine, as long as you keep them clean. Being rollers, pitch and gunk will affect them if you don't pay attention.

[Jim Becker]

Getting back to the original question about the specific saws asked about...I agree with Van.

[glenn bradley]

I am wondering "why" the upgrade? If it is taller resaw then any of the three you mention will be an 'upgrade' and the more subtle differences will help you make a decision. If you do not need taller resaw capability, I do not see any of those saws as very big upgrade and would probably reconsider my reasons. Is there something specific about the C-man that is bothering you? If we know that, we may be able to respond better.

[Randy Heinemann]

I would also ask why you're upgrading. If it's because you don't get good resaw results, then I would suggest you check the saw setup first, including installing a sharp new blade, blade tension, where the blade is set in relation to the center of the tires, and the setups of all the guides. (Oh, and if the tires are worn, they might need to be replaced.)

There is a booklet (or DVD) that Carter Products puts out that goes through the setup procedure that Alex Snodgrass demos at every woodworking show I've been at for 10 years. The thing is this setup procedure really works.

There are certainly bandsaws out there that nothing will help them get better results for resawing and your Craftsman might be one of those. I own a Rikon 10-325 Deluxe (the predecessor to the 10-326 Deluxe). I had to upgrade to the tool less guides because they weren't available on the 325, but the saw, once setup like the Carter booklet describes does a fantastic job resawing. It really does have a lot to do with setup and a sharp blade. I'm sure either the Rikon or the Laguna will resaw well if setup properly and with a sharp blade.

I guess I'm just saying try redoing the setup first. Buying a $20 booklet from Carter is much cheaper than a new bandsaw (probably even a video on YouTube with the procedure on it). If that doesn't work and the Craftsman is still a dog (which it might be), you still have the booklet as a reference because, no matter which bandsaw you own, it must be set up properly to get good resaw results.

With regard to the Rikon, I never liked their fences but, again, I just bought the MagFence from Carter and I can just line that up where I want it easily. Because the saw is set up properly, there is essentially no drift to compensate for.

[Van Huskey]

This is a classic SMC thread. You gotta have at least _____________, you don't need to spend any money etc. The varied opinions and general lack of group think is what makes this forum stand apart, in a good way.

The OP's Craftsman ne'e Rikon is an OK saw but it certainly is in the upgrade arc of most semi-serious hobbyists. The motor is weak, the guides are fairly poor (difficult to adjust) and the fence is more a fence shaped object. One can absolutely make it work but the saws and budget he mentioned are a solid step up in most every way save for the throat depth. Keep in mind this was stripped down version of a stripped down price point saw. I tend not to get in the way of people spending their own money, just the opposite, but will help them spend it in the most effective way IMO. This doesn't usually involve saying things like just buy wood especially when it comes to bandsaws which I think of like routers: every shop should have at least three.

The OP should indeed take stock in what is motivating him to trade up. Can the shortcomings be remedied with the correct setup and/or blades, this is important because any saw he gets will require the same. The Snodgrass/Carter video is available on youtube and is solid info despite the fact I don't agree with everything he says and it is mainly directly to 14" crowned wheel saws, which is what the OP has and is looking at.

In the end there are a lot of saws in the 14" welded steel class and of the roughly $1k segment the OP picked the best and best value options. To do better in the new market he will need to move his budget up to the 1300-1500 range. Rikon and Laguna have historically gone on 10% off sale fairly regularly so if he waits he may either pad his pocket or possibly look at the next level up in their lines.

[Jeff Miller]

This is a classic SMC thread. You gotta have at least _____________, you don't need to spend any money etc. The varied opinions and general lack of group think is what makes this forum stand apart, in a good way.

The OP's Craftsman ne'e Rikon is an OK saw but it certainly is in the upgrade arc of most semi-serious hobbyists. The motor is weak, the guides are fairly poor (difficult to adjust) and the fence is more a fence shaped object. One can absolutely make it work but the saws and budget he mentioned are a solid step up in most every way save for the throat depth. Keep in mind this was stripped down version of a stripped down price point saw. I tend not to get in the way of people spending their own money, just the opposite, but will help them spend it in the most effective way IMO. This doesn't usually involve saying things like just buy wood especially when it comes to bandsaws which I think of like routers: every shop should have at least three.

The OP should indeed take stock in what is motivating him to trade up. Can the shortcomings be remedied with the correct setup and/or blades, this is important because any saw he gets will require the same. The Snodgrass/Carter video is available on youtube and is solid info despite the fact I don't agree with everything he says and it is mainly directly to 14" crowned wheel saws, which is what the OP has and is looking at.

In the end there are a lot of saws in the 14" welded steel class and of the roughly $1k segment the OP picked the best and best value options. To do better in the new market he will need to move his budget up to the 1300-1500 range. Rikon and Laguna have historically gone on 10% off sale fairly regularly so if he waits he may either pad his pocket or possibly look at the next level up in their lines.





Thank You Van
You hit a lot of nails on the head.

The fence and guides are the main thing....I know how and have tuned the saw as much as I can,It runs so smooth you almost can't hear it.

I also have restored two older smaller band saws ,a table saw and a old Craftsman6" Jointer

So the guides...I ordered Carter guides and also a pair of their blue tires ( About $300.00 ) but there was one piece that holds the upper
guide to the post that didn't have enough adjustment and I could of filed the holes out ....but instead they are on their
way back. And I thought the adjustments for the bearings had way too much lash ...like a half a turn before they moved either way.

U right the fence is pretty much a toy.

I can order a Grizzly fence that might work but where my blade is not centered like the Grizzly is not centered on the table.
But they are probably not centered in the same place on the table. hope that made sense:o

Also my cast iron wheels and tires are not crowned they are flat.

There was a big discussion on woodnet :eek: when this saw came out about the wheels and tracking.
But I have to say the blades track perfectly.


So what this boils down to is I want a new band saw ....but do I need it......Don't matter...my$$

So I was leaning towards the Rikon but everybody likes the Laguna ......but the ceramic guides,tell me I will
like them as much as the bearing guides on the Rikon....are they easy and tool less to adjust?

These two saws (either one) are big enough for what I want to do.


Thank You everyone for the replies.

Now(please;)) give some votes on which one of those two to get.....If I decide to buy:confused::D:D:D


JEFF:D

[Barry McFadden]

I have the Rikon 10-326 and love it....

[Van Huskey]

First, I had no idea it had flat wheels/tires. Gotta be the only small Asian saw without them.

Again, I think you will find the Rikon and the Laguna both as a step up. The Rikon is cheaper and that deserves consideration.

I prefer the Laguna guides, the 10-326 did address the difficult to adjust guides from the 10-325 which were horrible to adjust and now use bigger bearings and are toolless. Not a huge fan of off the shelf bearings used for bandsaw guides (including the small Carter guides). I also don't like guides that run perpendicular to the blade as it sets the bearing point higher and the bigger the bearing the higher this point gets so the blade isn't supported as close to the cut. I won't go into Euro guides since it is beyond the scop here. The Laguna guides are tooless and easy to adjust. They are particularly easy since they can be run just touching the blade, which is the way they are designed to run but you will see varying opinions on setup. Run them just kissing the blade and they will provide the most support. They provide support of the blade at multiple points including close to the stock. I prefer solid block guides to bearings and ceramic to any other material and the Laguna version to all others. That said I have multiple types of guides and don't feel the need to replace them all with Laguna guides. Be aware the occasional spark that comes off ceramic guides freaks some people out.


I like the Laguna better, mainly for the guides beyond that it is more or less a toss-up for me. The Rikon does have a 5 year warranty if that motivates you. I don't think you will be disappointed with either.

[Nick Decker]

Jeff, it may be hard to find someone who has used both the Rikon and Laguna, with the exception of (I assume) Van. I tend to put a lot of stock in his opinion. The man obviously has a bandsaw "problem." :)

[andy bessette]

This latest Delta 14" is my third. They are wonderful machines. The first was a wood cutting bandsaw I bought new in the late '70's. It served me well for decades. To that I added a Delta 14" wood/metal cutting BS, another wonderful machine. Should have kept them both, but sold them when I bought my 20" Agazzani wood-cutting (~$1600), 18" Vectrax vertical metal-cutting, and 7" x 10" vertical/horizontal mitering metal-cutting bandsaws, due to overcrowding in my shop. In spite of this overcrowded condition I simply could not get by with just the 20" Agazzani and so picked up the third Delta 14" wood machine (for $450).

These Delta 14's are so far above anything Craftsman ever made, but they are limited to 1/2" blades. The Agazzani's 1" carbide blade is perfectly suited to resawing. I've even cut 7" thick blocks of aluminum with it. Having both machines (plus the metal-cutting machines) is ideal.

For $400-$500 you can buy a clean 14" Delta.

[Van Huskey]

These Delta 14's are so far above anything Craftsman ever made,

Setting aside that Craftsman never really built much of anything machinewise including the OP's saw, the Craftsman name adorns many bandsaw better than the Delta. Here is a Craftsman 100 18" saw, pretty standard build for a light duty 18" welded steel saw of the time. BTW this one was built by Parks in Cincinnati which built a lot of "Craftsman" machines.


390307

Don't get me wrong I have a soft spot for the Delta 14" saw (I've had over a dozen through the years and passively looking for one now for an experiment, How well good can I get a HF 14" saw to cut and I need an accessible baseline). However, the low tension ability, small table and often low HP motor take it out of the running for the best 14" all rounder. For a second saw they are hard to beat especially if one is budget or real estate constrained.

[andy bessette]

VH--I wouldn't mind having that one. But I'm out of space.

[Randy Heinemann]

I have the precursor to the Rikon 10-326 Deluxe (the 10-325 Deluxe) with the Rikon's toolless guides. I use Carter's MagFence instead of Rikon's fence because I never liked Rikon's (but maybe their newer fence is better). This saw does all I need it to. Plus, if you can wait a little, I generally see the 10-326 on sale for a very reasonable price. I got my 10-325 for under $800. For my needs, this was more than enough. I have resawed up to 8" boards. I do find that I need to use a slow and steady speed to get the best resaw cut, but it does a great job.

The next step up for me would be an 18" but that's a whole other set of decisions on brands. The 10-326 should do what you want if you're a serious hobby type wood worker. For me it does.

[Nick Decker]

I have the precursor to the Rikon 10-326 Deluxe (the 10-325 Deluxe) with the Rikon's toolless guides. I use Carter's MagFence instead of Rikon's fence because I never liked Rikon's (but maybe their newer fence is better). This saw does all I need it to. Plus, if you can wait a little, I generally see the 10-326 on sale for a very reasonable price. I got my 10-325 for under $800. For my needs, this was more than enough. I have resawed up to 8" boards. I do find that I need to use a slow and steady speed to get the best resaw cut, but it does a great job.

The next step up for me would be an 18" but that's a whole other set of decisions on brands. The 10-326 should do what you want if you're a serious hobby type wood worker. For me it does.

Yup, I just got a Woodcraft flyer that mentioned 15% off for Rikon, starting sometime in August.

Don't know about the fence on the 325, but the one on the 326 works very well for me.

[Tom M King]

I have an old Delta/Milwaukee 14" that belonged to my Dad. It needed a lot of work, so I changed the motor to a horse and a half Baldor, new tires, new guides, new tensioning spring, and crank handle, and found a replacement for the lower broken thrust bearing rod on ebay. Probably something else than I'm forgetting. It does what any flexible (with riser block) 14" saw will do, and works fine.

A couple of years after I did all that, I saw the 10-326, when it first came out, or soon after, on sale for either 799, or 899 (can't remember), and wished that I hadn't put all the time and money in that Delta, and just bought the 10-326.

I've never used that Laguna, but can't imagine it would be worth much of a premium over what the 10-326 costs when it's on sale.

[Jeff Miller]

I got a lead on a Laguna 14-12 brand new and put together .....but will just make it harder to haul.....REALLY GOOD PRICE

If I pull the trigger what is the best way to haul (in a pickup) without wrecking it....About a 60 mile trip.

Thank you in advance

JEFF:D

[andy bessette]

Just lay it down on the side that can do the least damage. Use moving pads and dunnage/blocking.

[Van Huskey]

I got a lead on a Laguna 14-12 brand new and put together .....but will just make it harder to haul.....REALLY GOOD PRICE

If I pull the trigger what is the best way to haul (in a pickup) without wrecking it....About a 60 mile trip.

Thank you in advance

JEFF:D

You have two basic options upright or lying down.

If you have enough help the simple way is to load it in the bed move it to the front and strap it down well with ratchet straps. Do NOT lift or anchor by the table, or you will have a bad day.

The second is to partially disassemble it and move it lying down. Bring a socket set with you, sometimes sellers can't find/don't have/or are missing the exact socket you need. Take the table off, place it in the floorboard. Remove the saw from the stand and place it on a moving blanket or similar motor side up. Place the stand in the bed or back seat if you have one. If you drive sanely you won't need to strap it down, but you can take some dunnage to fill out around it if you want to. The extra 30 minutes to break it down and reassemble it is worth it if you are transporting it horizontally. Now you can just take the table off and rely on the base to keep it steady (place it on the spine) its a 49/51 call but I would take the base off but leaving it on will likely work but you will need to strapit down so it doesn't flop over.

[Robert Engel]

Jeff,

Good to consult, but I would also read some reviews. I pretty much trust Fine Woodworking reviews.

I have a Rikon not that exact model (10-345), but I think the construction is basically the same. I am very happy with it.

I have a friend who bought the Laguna and he's also very happy with it (and he is a very particular guy).

The brake on the General and Laguna is not a bad feature to have.

My opinion is the Rikon would come in second to the General and Laguna.

Main deciding points between include:

1. The type/quality of guides
2. Ease of adjustments -tension and guide height
3. Cast iron wheels vs. aluminum.
4. Resaw height.
5. Frame construction
6. Ease of blade change.

If you can secure the machine well enough, I would try to haul it in a standing position.

If you lay it down, remove the table.

[Rick Potter]

Take some wood blocking and tie downs with you, and lay it on it's back.

Tip: A piece of carpeting or cardboard will help a lot. Stand the saw with its back to the tailgate, slide the cardboard behind it, and swivel the whole thing into the truck. Slide it AND the carpet/cardboard into the truck. Avoid damaging any electrical cords. Block it on it's back, tie it good and go home. Done it a dozen times. Never removed anything, but your option.

PS: Do not lift it by the table.

[John Sanford]

In a normal world, it would be a toss up between the General and the Laguna. With General gone, Laguna's continued existence gives it the nod. After that, again, toss up. There's TONS of support info and aftermarket bits for the Delta, not so much the Rikon.

Van Huskey is the Creek's Bandsaw Whisperer, so listen to him.

[Jeff Miller]

I have decides to keep the Craftsman and not buy new yet......too undecided

I have been watching Facebook and Craigslist ....I have seen a lot of good deals but all too far away

About the time I get a new one a smokin hot used one will show up

Thank You Everybody for all the advice

JEFF:D

[Bill Adamsen]

While you gots of good advice, it sounds like you are "on hold." It also sounds like you are heavily considering size, weight and logistics (distance in getting the darn thing back to the shop and setup) as considerations. Don't get something so large that you kill yourself getting it delivered and setup in the shop.

You ask about fences and that's a great question. One of the big weaknesses of bandsaws I've observed. Maybe because bandsaw tables are generally poorly designed and small. I added a Laguna extrusion (driftmaster?) to my large bandsaw and it was easy to configure and functions very effectively. Especially for ripping and veneer cutting which is a large part of how I use that saw. It is similar to, but even larger than the two position unifence. But my saw had a large cast iron top and heavy steel fence to attach the vertical fence to. And as I mentioned, it satisfied a requirement You've already identified the fence as an important attribute and it might be beneficial to drill down into that to understand why you think that. It might provide insights into what you want the saw for.

[lowell holmes]

Or you could add an aftermarket rip guide like I did on my 14" Jet. I am totally happy with it.