80/20 Aluminum Extrusions

[Mike Cutler]

I am looking to make a new fence for my shaper and, "on paper", these extrusions look like they would make a nice fence. Not an Aigner, by any means, but something more than MDF of baltic birch ply.
My question is this, Are they statistically flat enough to use as a shaper fence?
I am specifically looking at the 40-80/20 series.

Thank you in advance.

[Ted Calver]

Re flatness. Here's a link to the manufacturers specs for extrusions: https://www.8020.net/university-tslot, click T-Slot specifications. When I was building a router planer sled using aluminum extrusions I ran across this YouTuber, who uses extrusions for a table saw fence. His videos might give you some ideas. (No affiliation).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhZ5Mo9ma2U

[Mike Cutler]

Ted

Thank you for the video link.
A month or two back Martin Wassner posted a tour of his facility, and how he made cabinet doors, and I really liked the shaper fence system he made.
Mine won't be nearly as elegant as Martin's, and will be "manual", but based on his concept.

[Van Huskey]

I don't know if the specific profile will work for what you have in mind but if I was making some sort of fence I would first consider VSCT's machined extrusions, they are indeed flat and square 4 sides.

https://vsctools.com/shop/product-category/aluminum-extrusions/

[Mike Wilkins]

Just purchased a section of the Fast-trac to use as a shaper fence, instead of the wooden fence halves that came with it. I wanted something that would accommodate the Clear Cut Stock Guides and these tracks have the grooves to allow this.

[glenn bradley]

Van has your solution. Extrusions are not flat or true unless milled after the fact. VSCT now offers 80/20 stock that is milled. If you have a machine shop nearby, they could easily mill stock 80/20 extrusion for you as well. Your tolerances will be your guide.

[Martin Wasner]

Ted

Thank you for the video link.
A month or two back Martin Wassner posted a tour of his facility, and how he made cabinet doors, and I really liked the shaper fence system he made.
Mine won't be nearly as elegant as Martin's, and will be "manual", but based on his concept.

Somebody asked about the fence, I took some video of just that as well.


https://youtu.be/6pwzTD_2yU0

[Mike Cutler]

Van
That VSC Tools material looks pretty nice. I don't need but a single length, so the cost would be relative. Thank you for that information.

Mike
Who makes Fast-Trac? Is that bandsaw fence material?

Martin
That really is a nice system you "cobbled" together. I wouldn't be surprised at all if someday you see it being made commercially available. It's a definite winner.


I have a small 3HP Delta shaper and the fence for it is just a total pain in the beHind. Every time it needs to be adjusted, it has to be tuned again. Keeping the faces square to the table, and in line with each other can be a trial. I've actually taken to using motor shims to offset the outfeed fence. It's easier to drop in two .050 motor shims behind the fence, than move that fence section out for profiling by using the OEM fence feature.
My plan is to have the fence itself ride in the side rails. I haven't exactly figured out how to split the fence, so that the faces can be offset, but once I can get all the parts in my hands, it may become clearer.

[Derek Arita]

Keep in mind that where ever the tracks run, the extrusion is slightly indented and not at the level of the top and bottom of the extrusion. I was going to use it as a table saw fence or router table fence, but that stopped me, as various profiles of a workpiece that would normally run on a flat fence, may be at the level of the sunken track.

[glenn bradley]

I may have to adjust my concern. If the extrusion is just for the actual fence to clamp to as in the video the variations on plain ole' extrusions are probably OK. I thought the 80/20 was to be the fence for the material to ride against.

[Mike Cutler]

Derek

The profile I'm looking at has T-slots on the back, but the front face is flat. It has a slight radius top and bottom, but that's it.
When I saw Martin's design, I thought, why can't a "transom" style bridge fence be made. It would anchor to tracks on the sides of the machine, as Martin's does.
The actual fence and transom bridge could be made out of 80/20 extrusions and as long as the extrusions are flat and machined to within acceptable tolerance for square, a simple, rugged fence could be made that wouldn't be limited by the physical dimensions of the OEM fence, and the pre drilled machine thread holes in the top of the shaper.
I just really need a fence that when I'm done with it, and hang it on the wall, when I need it next, which could be months, that is square and true and I can just grab it and go.
I really like the shaper I have. It's more than I'll probably ever need, but the OEM fence is very limiting, and not very well made. It's extremely frustrating to use it.

Glenn
Sorry for being misleading. My plan was to use either the 40-80/20 with the flat face, or the type with T slots on both sides and affix a UHMW face to it.
I've never actually seen the extrusions, so I don't know how well they're made.

[Van Huskey]

I may have to adjust my concern. If the extrusion is just for the actual fence to clamp to as in the video the variations on plain ole' extrusions are probably OK. I thought the 80/20 was to be the fence for the material to ride against.

I am also confused as to whether he is using it as an actual "normal" fence or part of the mechanism to build and outboard fence like Martin's. If it is an outboard fence and using it like Martin then standard off the shelf 80/20 is fine. If he is using if for the main fence bearing surface or the bearing surface for the outboard fence (like Martin's polished:cool: fence) then the machined extrusion makes sense.

[Robin Dobbie]

I tried using 80/20 1530 as a table saw crosscut sled fence and it did not stay flat. It was flat when I built the sled, but a few months later it was not flat. Never dropped it, never had a kickback with it on, no visible damage. Just wasn't flat. I may cut it in half sometime and make a drill press fence with it.

[Brian Holcombe]

Martin, that fence is pretty sweet!

[John Halsted]

Keep in mind that where ever the tracks run, the extrusion is slightly indented and not at the level of the top and bottom of the extrusion. I was going to use it as a table saw fence or router table fence, but that stopped me, as various profiles of a workpiece that would normally run on a flat fence, may be at the level of the sunken track.

I've found 80/20 to stay very straight, but this would be the issue I'd worry about for a fence. The overall face is flat, but where the slot is, the face bends in toward the center of the extrusion. This makes it act like a spring when a bolt is tightened into a nut within the slot. If your pieces were as tall or taller than 1", then it wouldn't be an issue.

[Ole Anderson]

I wondering if 80/20 was a new alloy of aluminium, rather than the old designation like 6061-T6. Then I realized it is the brand name of the resulting extrusions, 80/20 Inc. Duh. If an extrusion is simply pushed out of a die, it will not be straight at all. It is typically pulled out while hot which makes it quite straight. And after tempering it will be straightened again. For most WW apps, the extrusion is straight enough to use without machining. But to get a flat face within a tight tolerance, yes, you need to machine it. Used to have quite a few custom dies in my barefoot boom building days, some 20 years ago. All 6061-T6.

[Mike Cutler]

Ole

I was kind of thinking the same thing about the extrusion process. I just didn't know if they did any milling after the process. It appears from the link Van provided that VSC Tools does. They have some nice stuff.

The VSC Tools looks like they have a lot of nice stuff and they're the link that ted Calver linked out to. I've watched a few of their videos now. They have one specifically on "flatness" that was interesting.

Van and Glenn
The entire fence system would be made of aluminum extrusions. I used 80/20 as a reference, since they seem to be a largest online supplier of aluminum extrusions. Until you provided that link to VSC tools, they were the only place I knew of. One of the products in 80/20's catalog is identified as 40-80/20, but it has a solid face that could be used as the fence, thus avoiding the issues everyone identified as having a profile line up on one of the slots.
The plan is to mount the rails on the side of the machine just as Martin did in his video. Martin appears to be using the extrusions only for a back fence to ride on, but I am hoping to do both with it. Main fence, and back fence, if necessary. Primarily though the main fence. I want to get rid of bolting the fence structure to the top of the table when it's in use.
I've seen some really nicely designed router fence offerings through the years. Incra, WoodPeckers, Bench Dog, etc, and always wondered why no one makes the equivalent structures for a shaper table. I know the shaper is somewhat of a oddity in the home workshop, probably because folks are afraid of them, but I have to believe the there are more folks than just me that would like a nicer fence than the OEM supplied, but could just never justify the cost of professional fence, like an Aigner, or something like that. And to be honest, I don't use a power feeder, so the ability to bolt rollers, feather boards,guards and such, to the existing T-slots would be useful. I learned to use a shaper as a 12-13 year old without a power feeder, and there wasn't one in the shop class. I'd like to have one though. They're nice.
Once I get done "playing around" with the idea, I'll post what I came up with.

[Brian Holcombe]

I don’t know how useful this will be to you folks, but I built this fence recently and I’m awaiting the arrival of the extrusion which will bolt to the face of it. From there I can set stops and utilize the sliding feature to create a support for longer pieces.

https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/img_0872-e1530068626162.jpg