Hanging lights in a high-ceiling workshop

[Evan Lentz]

Hello,

Just a few questions on how I might tackle putting in some lights in my high-ceiling pole barn. It's about 18 or so feet in the center and wide open and I have several nicer flourescent shop lights that plug into outlets. I am used to having low ceilings where my ladder will reach..but in this case I now have a ceiling height that even my large A-frame ladder wont get me up to.

- I will probably have to rent a scissor lift or similar to get up there...but I don't really want to have to do that each time I change my workshop layout. Anyone have a workaround for this type of situation?

- My lights are the plug in type - is it ok to have outlets on the ceiling and run extension cords to them down to the hanging lights...or should I convert them to wire in directly to the circuit?

Thanks!

[Jim Becker]

Evan, it might be more practical long-term to do an overall complete suspended lighting setup that you don't have to change when you rearrange the shop...and yea, I'd make it hard-wired. You can then pick your lighting height and organize things so you have even lighting throughout with the intensity you prefer. There may still be times when you want more focused task lighting, but you can handle that separately from the overall plan.

{edit} BTW, unless you want to get really, really expensive lights, you don't want them up to 18' in the air. As someone has mentioned in subsequent replies, consider maintenance, too. I personally would keep them at 10-12' MAX...

[Bill Dufour]

Get out your biggest step ladder and figure out what height you are comfortable with working with your hands while standing as high as you feel is safe. then hang your lights no higher then that.
Bill D.

[John K Jordan]

To get up there for lights or other reasons an inexpensive extension ladder is nice to have around. I use one in the house to get to the skylight or ceiling fan high 20' high in over the stairs to the second floor.

JKJ

[Peter Christensen]

You could get LED high bay lights and then you would likely never need to get up there to change them. They would cover your general lighting no matter how you arrange the shop machines unless you decided to put in a mezzanine for more storage. The existing lights could be for task lighting like over a mitre saw, benches, lathe along the walls.

[Doug Dawson]

Just a few questions on how I might tackle putting in some lights in my high-ceiling pole barn. It's about 18 or so feet in the center and wide open and I have several nicer flourescent shop lights that plug into outlets. I am used to having low ceilings where my ladder will reach..but in this case I now have a ceiling height that even my large A-frame ladder wont get me up to.

- I will probably have to rent a scissor lift or similar to get up there...but I don't really want to have to do that each time I change my workshop layout. Anyone have a workaround for this type of situation?


You might consider installing beams across the "room" at a height of 8 feet or so, that you could hang stuff from, including lights. Then you wouldn't need a trapeze certification.

[Rollie Kelly]

If typical pole barn, have you considered putting LED tape lights on the bottom of the truss chords?

[glenn bradley]

Nice rule of thumb:

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[Mike Heidrick]

in my experience led light strips and $20 costco led lights do not work at 16' and up. I hated it and every shop I have been in or seen where people use them there are shadows everywhere. You may not be used to good lighting if that is acceptable but I encourage folks to try lighting based on measured numbers and formulas and you will be amazed at how nice it is. People walk in my shop and are blown away how nice the lighting is. You want a low bay solution or high bay solution.

Start with the lighting document pinned on SMC. I used T5HO 6 bay lights, overkill according to the article but I need less circuits and lights than T8s and It is soo nice having good lights. I went 4 circuits for lights. I split mine in the middles - edges east and west and center east and west.

I have a ton of outlets in my ceiling of all types. I have lighting circuits with outlets on them. All my lights easily removable. I even prewired the 2X4s with those outlets on them and have J boxes at the ends to wire them together. That way I took up the boards wired, attached them to the top of the truss bottom and then wired them together. While I was doing it I installed tool drop circuits and outlets as well. REALLY enjoying those now that tools are in Power drops down to tool clusters and I have no cords across the floor or over the edge of a table.

To attach lights I used eye bolts in the 2X4s that are double nutted locked there with fender washers, ever 2' with an outlet at one end for the lighting circuit. I then attached log leash end type clasps bought from Lowes to the lights installed with stainless steel zip ties. I also installed power cords in each light, I used free computer power supply power cords and cut off the D ends. I used NM clamps as well. Then you carry them up, clasp connect one end, then grab the other end and rotate up and connect the other end, then plug in to lighting circuit.

I bought a little giant ariel safety cage ladder 9-14 used for $700. It has a platform and a surround. Used to meet ANSI standards in industrial applications. The platform goes from 8'-14' and you typically work ~6' above that. It is great. I have since bought my scissor lift that I was borrowing but I still use the ladder when I need the ladder in tight spaces or I am doing work and two ariel tasks are needed.

Other things to consider are speakers or cameras you might want or an air line.

In my build log thread there are pictures of about all this if you go back far enough.

[Carlos Alvarez]

As others have said, that is way too far for the light to be effective. I've seen various suspended light setups. The simplest and cheapest was a guy who ran light stainless steel cables across the room from eye bolts, and hung lights from those.

[Mike Heidrick]

As others have said, that is way too far for the light to be effective. I've seen various suspended light setups. The simplest and cheapest was a guy who ran light stainless steel cables across the room from eye bolts, and hung lights from those.

Only because the wrong lights have been chosen. Come by and Ill show you my lighting at 16' and mine is even low compared to many industrial application.

[Carlos Alvarez]

Only because the wrong lights have been chosen. Come by and Ill show you my lighting at 16' and mine is even low compared to many industrial application.

"Wrong" is all relative. All lights lose their brightness at the square of the distance, so lights high up just waste a lot of energy.

[Gregory Stahl]

Hi Evan!

What you want is high bay lights. If it is not rated high-bay--do not consider it. These should be installed around 14' or higher from the floor.

I use a 4-light T5 with dual level lighting from Metalux(Cooper Lighting). These are available locally for me from Menards. The regular price is $119, but they can be found on sale for significantly less. I believe I paid about $80/ea for mine. Also, this price includes bulbs, so some cost savings there.

I would hardwire them in. I am a commercial shop--so I have to deal with inspectors. The lights include a disconnect inside, so the fixture can be easily removed if needed within a few seconds.

My electrician said no outlets on the ceiling unless they are twist locks. Instead, lights are wired with conduit and MC cable whips. Code says the whip length can only be a maximum of 6'. We used Snap 2 It push in connectors to connect the MC cable to the box and fixture. These were awesome--easy to use and fairly inexpensive! Use 14/3 MC cable whips and wire lights for dual level. I had too because I have large windows in shop, so code requires dual level lighting. Now that I have it this way, I would not do anything else.

With the dual lighting, I find I often use only two of the 4-bulbs most of the time. My highest light is 20' in the air. I cannot notice a difference in light intensity from the lights that are 15' up.

If you drop outlets from the ceiling above, hardwire them in and make certain you use strain relief to hang the cable as the cable weight needs to be supported to meet code. I am not certain, but a twist lock might be sufficient on the ceiling but would cost significantly more than hardwiring.

This is what I did to meet code in my commercial shop. The cost to do so was not that bad, especially if you are doing yourself or have an electrician friend! Your code may differ slightly, you may want to look into.

BTW, I did test LED high bay fixtures and did not find any I liked. They were very expensive and all that I tested used a diffuser to spread the light or had a clear glass bottom. They quickly filled with bugs. At 20' in the air, I did not want to regularly clean them out. LED lighting has changed fast--perhaps there are different fixtures available now.

Also, just want to mention, I had these same T5 fixtures in my last shop for 8-years and never have changed a bulb.

In the pic, the two hanging cords are SO cable drops with twist lock connectors on the bottom. I have over a dozen of these drops around the shop from 120V to 480V--fantastic way to do so, and can move drop around to get precise location with the strain relief hanger. I would never do this any other way now!


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[Mike Heidrick]

Would someone really build a tall building and run cables across it at 8' or 10' because they are too cheap to do lighting correctly? I sure would not.

Low and high bay lights are designed for 14' up and 20' up and spread light correctly at that height.

Buying lights in bulk saves money. My Howard (cheaper) 6 bulb t5ho fixtures with 5000k bulbs were $100 ea shipped in orders of 8 and 10. Cors lighting in Jacksonville IL and they are on ebay too or were a couple years ago. That ships freight so be ready to handle a pallet off the back of a semi.

They do not ship with cords or hangers so factor that into your cost.

[Doug Dawson]

Would someone really build a tall building and run cables across it at 8' or 10' because they are too cheap to do lighting correctly? I sure would not.

Would someone be so reckless and disregardful of energy efficiency that they would light an entire cavernous building because they couldn't be bothered to light only whatever areas _actually_ need light? Really now. Is this the lair of a Bond villain, with the attendant theatricality? Probably not (although it could be fun.)

[Carlos Alvarez]

Would someone really build a tall building and run cables across it at 8' or 10' because they are too cheap to do lighting correctly? I sure would not.


No, he did that because it was the right way to do it, and because it would be very wasteful of energy to light unused space. Maybe he wanted to save on the wasted electricity too, I guess? Either way, he did it right, regardless of motivation. Also, he didn't build the building, just acquired it.

[Mike Heidrick]

Also, he didn't build the building, just acquired it.

Answers a lot right there.

[Rollie Meyers]

Hi Evan!

What you want is high bay lights. If it is not rated high-bay--do not consider it. These should be installed around 14' or higher from the floor.

I use a 4-light T5 with dual level lighting from Metalux(Cooper Lighting). These are available locally for me from Menards. The regular price is $119, but they can be found on sale for significantly less. I believe I paid about $80/ea for mine. Also, this price includes bulbs, so some cost savings there.

I would hardwire them in. I am a commercial shop--so I have to deal with inspectors. The lights include a disconnect inside, so the fixture can be easily removed if needed within a few seconds.

My electrician said no outlets on the ceiling unless they are twist locks. Instead, lights are wired with conduit and MC cable whips. Code says the whip length can only be a maximum of 6'. We used Snap 2 It push in connectors to connect the MC cable to the box and fixture. These were awesome--easy to use and fairly inexpensive! Use 14/3 MC cable whips and wire lights for dual level. I had too because I have large windows in shop, so code requires dual level lighting. Now that I have it this way, I would not do anything else.

With the dual lighting, I find I often use only two of the 4-bulbs most of the time. My highest light is 20' in the air. I cannot notice a difference in light intensity from the lights that are 15' up.

If you drop outlets from the ceiling above, hardwire them in and make certain you use strain relief to hang the cable as the cable weight needs to be supported to meet code. I am not certain, but a twist lock might be sufficient on the ceiling but would cost significantly more than hardwiring.

This is what I did to meet code in my commercial shop. The cost to do so was not that bad, especially if you are doing yourself or have an electrician friend! Your code may differ slightly, you may want to look into.

BTW, I did test LED high bay fixtures and did not find any I liked. They were very expensive and all that I tested used a diffuser to spread the light or had a clear glass bottom. They quickly filled with bugs. At 20' in the air, I did not want to regularly clean them out. LED lighting has changed fast--perhaps there are different fixtures available now.

Also, just want to mention, I had these same T5 fixtures in my last shop for 8-years and never have changed a bulb.

In the pic, the two hanging cords are SO cable drops with twist lock connectors on the bottom. I have over a dozen of these drops around the shop from 120V to 480V--fantastic way to do so, and can move drop around to get precise location with the strain relief hanger. I would never do this any other way now!


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If the MC cable used to supply chain supported or other flexible means,lighting fixtures has solid conductors it violates NEC art 410.56(E), stranded conductors are required & most MC cable uses solid conductors.

[Gregory Stahl]

If the MC cable used to supply chain supported or other flexible means,lighting fixtures has solid conductors it violates NEC art 410.56(E), stranded conductors are required & most MC cable uses solid conductors.

And it needs to be fastened to one of the supporting chains as in my picture.

[Evan Lentz]

Wow - lots of good info on here, thanks guys. I am currently looking into the 'other easier' option of hanging lights via running a chain through conduit and attaching on either end of the shop, walls, etc. My thoughts were...low and easy to adjust as my space changes and more tables are acquired, and the running chain through conduit - maybe less of a sagging look, or a cleaner look to it. Also - I could connect T-sections to it and run perpendicular lines using more chain/conduit. Anyhow, not the fanciest solution but it might work for me. In the shop I have two large wooden beams that divide the space into thirds, they reach up only about 10 feet. I can install switched outlets to them to make the whole system easy to reach.

[Wade Lippman]

I just bought a 250w equivalent led PAR38. I bet a few of those up high would give good light.

[Tom Bender]

So you are probably going to install your lights around 10'. There are options for suspending them. I would not hard wire them. My suggestion is to install outlets with a few switched circuits and use plug in whips so you can easily reconfigure. You can then switch certain outlets but it would be easy to extend a fixture to another outlet if that was needed. And it is easy to replace or relocate fixtures.

[Tom Bender]

So you are probably going to install your lights around 10'. There are options for suspending them. I would not hard wire them. My suggestion is to install outlets with a few switched circuits and use plug in whips so you can easily reconfigure. You can then switch certain outlets but it would be easy to extend a fixture to another outlet if that was needed. And it is easy to replace or relocate fixtures.