First Boat, need help

[Zach Dickason]

I’m in the early planning stages here. My workshop is in my basement but I have room in my garage for a 16’ boat. I’d rather not take on something that large as a first effort. Im thinking a 12’ skiff. This will be used exclusively on small lakes for fishing and just cruising around with the wife and kids.

There are so many skiff plans out there that it’s difficult to wade through and choose. I know asthetically what I like but I don’t know enough about boatbuilding to determine if a certain design is a good one or a bad one. I love the look of the peeler skiff from clcboats. I don’t want a center console and plan to add a small 5-10hp outboard.

Skill wise I don’t need (or want to spend the money for) a complete kit. I’d rather just buy plans.

Advise would be great as well as suggestions for good plans.

[andy bessette]

Try Sam Devlin's stitch and glue plans for a first boat.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Good day Zach,

You have made a great choice with the Peeler Skiff, pending what waters you are going to be using her in. As long as you're going to be in relatively flat water, this will be (a) an easy boat to build, (b) a well-respected designer, and (c) perfect for your 5-10hp outboard. The only issue with a flat-bottomed boat is that it is more suited for flatwater. In waves it's going to follow the wave- rocking back and forth, side to side. In flatwater, however, it's going to jump up on plane even with your small outboard, and would be a great little boat. I'm not saying she won't take a few swells, but she is most suited for protected waters- lakes, slow-flowing rivers, and protected bays. By the way, for rivers this would be a great boat due to the shallow draft, and in rivers you often find yourself dodging logs and sandbars.

I just peeked at their site for the specs and they say it achieved 23 knots with a 15hp. That's pretty darned good! Just for comparison, with most 10 to 12' ridgid inflatables (which are very light, but not real efficient at low speeds) you'll be doing good to get that speed with a 15. Also she is 15', which is a great size. I would not go any smaller than that, but that's me personally and everyone has different opinions on boat sizes. The design should be very easy to build with a flat bottom and single panel sides. CLC is a well-respected company. They also have a forum where you can get a lot of help during the build.

Andy gives good advice with Sam Devlin's stitch n glue boats. His designs are more of a V-Hull if you're going to be hitting more open water. Although a wee bit harder to build due to having more panels, the Candlefish should be a good alternative to the Peeler Skiff.

Some advice- use Oakoume Plywood. Boulter Plywood has a very good marine grade Oakoume. It's extremely light and strong. It even looks good varnished. You are probably already aware, but that's what CLC uses for their boats. Make sure your plywood is Lloyd's certified water and boil proof glued (WBP).

Keep us posted.

[Zach Dickason]

Thanks for the replies fellas. The Peeler plans are a little pricey but the boat fits my needs almost exactly.

I was wanting to keep the price low but I also would like comprehensive plans given this is my first attempt.

Also, this boat will only ever be in the water for a week or two at a time at the longest. It will live on a trailer and be a weekend warrior most of the time. A few times a year it may be in the water for a couple weeks during vacation. Given this would it be possible to use cheaper plywood. I don’t mean junk ply, but maybe not the most expensive?

[Malcolm Schweizer]

You can use cheaper ply if you fully epoxy encapsulate it- and I mean glass and resin- not just a resin coat. Have you checked prices on Oakoume marine ply? It’s not terribly expensive. I have built kayaks out of “doorskins”, which are non- Marine grade ply and it gets epoxy encapsulated, so it is fine, but I find the quality to be poor. It has voids, it doesn’t bend in a fair curve at times (due to inconsistent layers), and it is not as strong as marine ply.

[Zach Dickason]

When you say fully encapsulate do you mean the inside as well?

[Malcolm Schweizer]

When you say fully encapsulate do you mean the inside as well?


Yes- inside and out and all the edges. Fully enclosed. I would recommend 6 ounce cloth on the floor, 4 ounce up the sides, and a double layer of 6 ounce below the waterline. That will be durable and not too heavy.

[James Waldron]

All good advice from Malcolm: the voice of experience.

To give an idea of the look of Okume ply (this encapsulated in 4 oz glass epoxy all around as well), take a look at my latest stitch and glue project:

389852
click it to big it

[andy bessette]

JW--beautiful boat.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

All good advice from Malcolm: the voice of experience.

To give an idea of the look of Okume ply (this encapsulated in 4 oz glass epoxy all around as well), take a look at my latest stitch and glue project:

389852
click it to big it

The voice of a culmination of trial and error- mostly error- Um... I mean experience. Yes, Experience. :-) That's a nice looking design. Is it your design? Will this serve as a dinghy to your sailboat?

[Zach Dickason]

What do guys think of Barons lumberyard skiff? Those plans are much cheaper then the peeler. The boats look pretty similar, and appear to have similar performance.

[andy bessette]

ZD--that would be OK in protected waters.

[Mike Berrevoets]

What do guys think of Barons lumberyard skiff? Those plans are much cheaper then the peeler. The boats look pretty similar, and appear to have similar performance.

I’m building the lumberyard skiff right now. Started on Memorial Day weekend and hope to be done in a few weeks.

But, I’m no expert by any means and this is my first boat. It appealed to me because it is relatively inexpensive and not really fine woodworking so if I mess something up then I just put on more epoxy filler and sand it again.

As for how it handles.... I don’t know yet but I don’t have any notion that this is going to be a high performance boat. Should be ok for our smaller lakes (not Lake Michigan) and rivers and if my daughter is fishing she doesn’t much care if it could have been built s little lighter.

My biggest thing right now is trying to make it look good enough that people remark “you made that??” And not “oh man, some guy made that...” We’ll see if I accomplish that goal in a few weeks.

[James Waldron]

The voice of a culmination of trial and error- mostly error- Um... I mean experience. Yes, Experience. :-) That's a nice looking design. Is it your design? Will this serve as a dinghy to your sailboat?

It's a pT-11; it comes as a CNC cut panel kit. It comes apart into two nesting parts that stow on deck. It has turned out to be a bit too lightweight to serve as tender in any rough water cruising, but otherwise it's a neat little boat. With its sailing rig, its a fun toy and good with the Granddaughter aboard. Rows decently, except my 8 foot oars are a bit long for such a little boat. Extremely well engineered and developed by very good people. A bit pricey for a lot of folks. PT Watercraft - PT-11 (http://www.ptwatercraft.com/ptwatercraft/Welcome.html)

[Zach Dickason]

Are the plans pretty straightforward? As to the design, I’ve seen so many pictures of those things ranging from extremely plain to extremely fancy.

[Mike Berrevoets]

Are the plans pretty straightforward? As to the design, I’ve seen so many pictures of those things ranging from extremely plain to extremely fancy.

For the lumberyard skiff? Yes, the plans are pretty straightforward. And the plans include a narrative of the building process and a few B&W pictures. I had a question along the way and emailed Walter and he responded within a day or two.

[James Waldron]

Are the plans pretty straightforward? As to the design, I’ve seen so many pictures of those things ranging from extremely plain to extremely fancy.

Plans are extremely detailed; no experience is assumed in the manual and every step is illustrated in detail. A lot more detail than I needed, but I'm sorta experienced, so I'm not the best judge of what others may need. Plain or fancy is up to you; you make the choices that dictate the fit and finish of the build. The manual tells you how to do it shipshape and Bristol fashion. Fast, easy build. Russell is available by phone or e-mail throughout your build.

[Bryan Lisowski]

Seems like good advise so far. You may want to go to YouTube and search for Tips from a Shipright. He is currently building a skiff. I don't know if plans are available, but gives good tips.

[Al Launier]

The actual selection really is based on your personal taste, intended use & funds as you have already mentioned. However, some thoughts:




You mentioned this would be a "first effort". Based on that I might suggest keeping your expenditures in line with your budget as you most likely will want to "expand" the scope of your future boating. It's a sickness that none of us can escape. This will allow you to develop your boat building skills & better prepare you for the next boat you may want to build.
Along this line it might be beneficial for you if you could visit a boat yard that builds similar boats and inquire about some boat building tips.
This design would be very stable, yet you should still consider the waves you might encounter. Waves on a flat bottom boat make for a very, bumpy, uncomfortable ride. If you will be having friends or children aboard, that might not be a pleasant experience for them.
Frankly, I think a 12' boat is too small to adequately & safely hold you/wife/kids (how many?)/friends. Despite the size of the lake, weather can come up unexpectedly AND there are always those who, for whatever reason, pass too close leaving a large wake to contend with.
I would consider a less expensive boat to build and start with a 14' minimum, preferably 16' boat considering the number of people you might have on board.
Additionally, you’ll' need a significant amount of storage space for life jackets, anchor, horn, bow & stern lights.
How would you store & transport this boat, in your garage & on a trailer, or on the back of a pickup? What is its weight? These tend to run heavier than other boats of the same size.
Are you prepared for the routine/annual maintenance a wooden boat requires, the liability insurance, registration, et al?
All in all this would be a great project, actual one with a lot of family interest & anticipation, with a great deal of satisfaction. However, if you plan on building future boats you might want to consider building them as your skill sets develop over time. Rushing in unprepared into a highly skilled project could cause some concerns as you proceed on your project.

[Zach Dickason]

Great advise I really appreciate it. I think I’ve settled on the LYS or the Devlin Candlefish 16.

[andy bessette]

Wooden Boat Magazine has published plans for a rather attractive and easy to build dory, which looked very seaworthy.

Also I find this boat particularly attractive, if not easy to build.
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[John LoDico]

Zach, check out the LYS I built a little further down in this forum. Walter Baron’s plans are fairly detailed and the choice you have is putting a top deck on along the sides (which is nicer and is what I did) or leaving it open and more plain. You can also build a pulpit to steer with or not. I enjoyed building it. It’s a good project. It turns heads! As for the boat itself — it’s handling, etc. — it’s sturdy and more substantial than you’d think. It’s not good in a chop being flat bottomed but handles nicely in small swells on Cape Cod Bay and up rivers and inlets and across Pleasant Bay on Cape Cod. Good luck.

[Zach Dickason]

Okay, I've ordered the Lumberyard Skiff plans. Things are about to get extremely crowded in my garage

[Mike Berrevoets]

Sharing my lesson learned.....

The LYS plans mention using MDO plywood for painted boats. I wish I would have listened to that advice. I used marine pine plywood and now that I am painting it glossy dark blue I can see all the little waves in the plywood. They aren’t real deep but the dark glossy color really makes them noticeable. My neighbors all tell me I’m being too critical and that it looks good. My plan is to get it in the water and if it still bothers me after that I’ll address it this winter.

[Zach Dickason]

Awesome, I had planned to use MDO and this confirms it. How did you finish it out? Did you epoxy and cloth both the inside and out?

[Mike Berrevoets]

I wavered for quite a while on epoxy and cloth. My original goal was cheap and fast build. In the end I epoxied the outside (no glass) and painted with Rust-Oleum marine paint. If the plywood didn’t have waves I think it would have turned out pretty good for the time and money spent. I may regret not putting fiberglass cloth on the outside at some point but honestly if the boat lasts 10 years it will exceed my expectations and I’ll build something else. But next time I’ll start in the winter so I don’t have to rush.

One thing that kept me from using MDO is I didn’t know if epoxy and or fiberglass would stick to the MDO. It might, I just didn’t want to chance it and I hadn’t decided at that point whether I was glassing it or not so I went with marine plywood.

[andy bessette]

...One thing that kept me from using MDO is I didn’t know if epoxy and or fiberglass would stick to the MDO...

Epoxy/glass will stick well to MDP, though it takes a few coats to thoroughly saturate the surface. I use WEST epoxy for this.

[Zach Dickason]

I've read so many threads from different forums on this topic and there exists a ton of contradictory info. Some people only fair and paint. Others epoxy tape the seams. Others completely saturate in epoxy and cloth inside and out. Is there a standard practice for finishing this style of boat? I've read where fully encapsulating doesn't allow the wood to breath causing premature rot. Is fairly confusing. I want the boat to last for as cheaply as possible. How do I do that?

[andy bessette]

Complete encapsulation preserves the wood and prevents rot.

[Zach Dickason]

Should I encapsulate with epoxy and cloth or can I get away with only epoxy. My plan was to cloth the outside but only epoxy (no cloth) the inside. Is this wrong?

[andy bessette]

Using cloth insures that you maintain a certain minimum thickness of epoxy barrier and provides extra protection. What does the designer call for?

[Zach Dickason]

The Lumberyard Skiff plans dont specify finishing but Walter sends his to a fiberglass shop to be coated.

[andy bessette]

I don't know Walter but, if you respect his judgement, you might want to emulate him. Surely glassing the inside will make it very durable.

[Zach Dickason]

Walter Baron is the Lumberyard Skiff designer. He runs a shop called Old Wharf Dory

[andy bessette]

All the more reason to emulate him.

[Zach Dickason]

Epoxy and cloth it is then, inside and out. Stand by for many more questions as my build progresses

[Bill Adamsen]

Zach:

I'd be interested in pros and cons for that type of boat for Dynel/Fiberglass. For the same weight cloth, Dynel (Xynole) would hold more epoxy providing perhaps better barrier. It is also more flexible than glass cloth which is essentially not flexible at all. I would think for the Lumberyard Skiff you are looking for barrier protection and abrasion resistance far more than additional strength. Some years ago a fellow that worked for Union Carbide told me about a life-cycle test they performed with battens and various combinations of glass and plastics. The Epoxy/Dynel proved most durable.

[John LoDico]

I just want to note that painting a Lumberyard Skiff is just as good as fiberglassing it. That’s what I did. I used two coats of primer on the outside and two coats of finish. All Interlux. I rolled on an arms length of paint on a 6” roller and a friend followed behind with a foam brush. Two years later I put another coat on. Fiberglassing is expensive and I think unnecessary for this boat. I spar varnished the rails and I painted the inside too. However, you can’t go wrong wither way. Good luck. (Post a picture.)

[andy bessette]

...painting a Lumberyard Skiff is just as good as fiberglassing it...

Come on! :)

[Malcolm Schweizer]

I just want to note that painting a Lumberyard Skiff is just as good as fiberglassing it. That’s what I did. I used two coats of primer on the outside and two coats of finish. All Interlux. I rolled on an arms length of paint on a 6” roller and a friend followed behind with a foam brush. Two years later I put another coat on. Fiberglassing is expensive and I think unnecessary for this boat. I spar varnished the rails and I painted the inside too. However, you can’t go wrong wither way. Good luck. (Post a picture.)

Maybe painting with AwlGrip is similar to coating with epoxy only, but not at all comparable to epoxy and cloth. I recommend a 6 ounce cloth wet out with epoxy of your choice- I use West System and Raka. Raka is just as good as West and cheaper. West I can get locally. There are other good ones- Silvertip gets great reviews and I'm told flows really well. Epoxy cloth adds an element of strength over just epoxy coating, and also creates a more permanent barrier. Epoxy only can eventually start to crack over time and allow water infiltration.

[John LoDico]

Remember, it’s a “lumberyard” skiff. Down and dirty. The ones I’ve seen around here — that have been on the water for years — are painted. To each his own though.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Remember, it’s a “lumberyard” skiff. Down and dirty. The ones I’ve seen around here — that have been on the water for years — are painted. To each his own though.

My apologies because you are right in this. I was just addressing the "just as good as painting" part. Resin and cloth are inherently stronger than just painting, but to your point- Many boats have survived many years with just paint. I read of a boat made from marine grade ply that wasn't even painted- just left bare wood- and it lasted many years.

I do caution folks against epoxy coating only, because epoxy breaks down in UV and cracks and peels. I recommend epoxy coated parts to be coated with either paint or UV inhibiting varnish, and varnish sanded and reapplied no different than if on bare wood. I'm only stating this because it was brought up about epoxy coating and I wanted to throw in that bit of caution.

[James Waldron]

My apologies because you are right in this. I was just addressing the "just as good as painting" part. Resin and cloth are inherently stronger than just painting, but to your point- Many boats have survived many years with just paint. I read of a boat made from marine grade ply that wasn't even painted- just left bare wood- and it lasted many years.

I do caution folks against epoxy coating only, because epoxy breaks down in UV and cracks and peels. I recommend epoxy coated parts to be coated with either paint or UV inhibiting varnish, and varnish sanded and reapplied no different than if on bare wood. I'm only stating this because it was brought up about epoxy coating and I wanted to throw in that bit of caution.

+1

Paint only is fine unless you need to beach the boat often or etc.; paint does not have the abrasion resistance of an epoxy-glass coating. And then you need to apply paint over the epoxy-glass for uv protection, so it's more expense and more work but you do get the abrasion protection, better impact strength and a more durable water barrier. If your use of the boat doesn't need those, skip the epoxy-glass. As they say around here, YMMV.

[John C Cox]

The other thing is... Paint only is probably fine if you are religious to take it out of the water, trailer it, remove the motor and store the boat flipped upside down under cover 100% EVERY SINGLE TIME.... That’s the way they did the old wooden strip boats.... and keeping them upside down makes sure the water isn’t pooled inside the hull to rot the boat...

If you store it right side up under cover - you will have to figure out a way to get all the water out and then run fans to keep the hull dry..

It’s not an aluminum jon boat - you can’t treat it like one.

With the resin... The thin non-woven mat is there to ensure you have sufficient resin thickness for waterproofing - it doesn’t really add strength. If you look at the thickness - 1.5 oz non-woven mat is about the same thickness as 6oz woven... but the 6oz mat has 4x as much glass in it for strength. If you use 0.5oz or 0.75oz mat - all it’s going to do is provide a substrate for your resin so it won’t crack and peel off... it doesn’t really add any appreciable strength... Waterproofing what you need on a wooden boat because the wood is the structure..