Did Someone Say "Bandsaw?"

[Stew Denton]

Hi All,

I'm too frugal for my own good. They are re-doing part of the roof on our church, and have a big waste dumpster as a part of that. After church yesterday, I saw a pallet in it that was pretty ratty, but it was made from red oak 2X4s and 3X6s. I asked, and was told it was waste, and if I wanted it I could have it, so when it cooled off a bit toward evening I went and got it and took it apart. (Don't hit one of your sharpest chisels, in this case a 1/4", on a hardened nail, it will make a big divot in the business end, but how would I know that? Someone say "pay attention to your chisel work?")

Both of the 3X6s had the core run right up the board, and were beginning to split, so I needed to rip up the board, right up the core, and then dope the ends to stop further splitting, and I had to dope the end grain on the 2X4s too.

Problem: my 4&1/2 point rip is none too good, and desperately in need of sharpening. My beloved 7 point rip is recently sharpened when I had time a while back, but a SEVEN POINT!!!! (3 feet of 3" red oak??!! You are out of your mind!!) A good 4 point (or so) rip, that is darned sharp, was badly needed.

Well, a bad idea that will salvage the lumber seemed better than no idea, so I gave it a go. I need to either repoint one of my many unused good cross cuts, or buy a 4 point rip!!!! I have plenty of good unused crosscuts, so one will make the sacrifice some day probably.

I got it done, but it was no fun....no fun at all. At that point I lost my light, so the other 3X6 is waiting for tomorrow.
I am now taking a break to let the wax I use for doping the end grain cool, so I can swap ends and then dope the other ends.

Tomorrow, I think I will eyeball the rip on the second 3X6, and have a go with my old circular saw.

Did anyone say "band saw?" Someday probably, but not now, no room for one.

For what its worth, the idea for the oak pallet lumber has to do with unused hand screw clamp kits that I have little other suitable lumber for, at least none that isn't already planned for.

Stew

[Kees Heiden]

Sharpen that 4 1/2 rip. It’ll go a lot quiker.

[Dan Hulbert]

Since the core runs up the center, is this a candidate for splitting?

[John K Jordan]

I'd do it for you in a heartbeat but it's a long walk from Texas to here. I'm certain someone nearer to you has a bandsaw and could rip/resaw as you need so you can save your saws and energy for making something from it!

If you like pallet wood, check the companies that import granite for counter tops. The pallets are often made from unidentified exotic woods, some hard and dense and sometimes highly figured. One near here breaks down all the pallets and crates and throws the pieces into a couple of big bins inside the building. Anyone that knows about it is welcome to dig through and take what they want. I've salvaged some great 2" think stock and used it for woodturning.

I also used to get pallets and crates from tractor and motorcycle importers. The tractor dealers have gone to steel pallets, though. (But they sometimes give those away, great to disassemble for new square steel tubing and such.

JKJ

[John C Cox]

That's a giant amount of work to get 1" lumber that you can buy easy enough. But it's a lot harder (and more expensive) to buy big thick timber like that....

Any chance you can use the 3x6 stock for stuff like table legs or large sections and use "regular" lumber for stuff where you just need 1" stock....

Otherwise - yes... A bandsaw is your friend here... Or even a good circular saw...

[David Myers]

I'd do it for you in a heartbeat but it's a long walk from Texas to here...

JKJ

It's a long walk from Borger to anywhere.

Good luck, Stew, and keep us posted.

[Charles Mathews]

I am below San Antonio and would do it for you but I see that Borger is almost in another state from me. I have broken down and repurposed some oak pallets and have gotten some nice stuff. Just be aware that some have those nasty spiral nails in them and can be a booger to remove.

[Stew Denton]

Hi All,

John (C.); Charles and David are right, the closest place I MIGHT be able to get thicker stock than 3/4" oak is Amarillo, and by the time I drive to Amarillo, drive through it to the place that MIGHT have it, find what I need, drive back through Amarillo and then home, I am sure that the minimum amount of time you are looking at, is between 3&1/2 and 4 hours. The nearest lumber yard I know of, other than the one here, is about 30 miles away, and like our lumber yard here, they do not have good quality oak thicker than 1" stuff. Depending on the hand screw kit size I need 1.5 to 2.25 inch stock.

Yes, I wish the pallet lumber was good enough to use for chair legs or something else, but no, I will be doing well to get a couple of the larger hand screw clamps out of it.

Lubbock used to have a hardwoods place, but that is a 3 hour drive, one way, just to get to Lubbock, not to get anywhere inside the city.

We get to Oklahoma city a few days a year, to see kids, and they almost certainly have hardwoods, and in fact there are sawmills located there, but that is a 4 hour drive one way.

Out here large chunks of oak, from any lumber supplier, are also going to be VERY high dollar. John (K.), thanks for the ideas on finding pallets.

Thus for me, I have to take advantage of any thick hardwood I can get my hands on.

Dan, I don't think splitting it is an option. I do have splitting wedges, and have split plenty of firewood on camping trips, but trying to split these two pieces would be fairly risky due to knots, etc.

Thanks to you guys who offered to cut up the lumber for me, but, yep, too far away.

Kees, I plan to eventually sharpen the 4.5 point rip, or more likely re-tooth a much better saw to make a 4 or 4.5 point rip saw. However I need it now.

The Skilsaw/circular saw seems like the best option for cutting up the current piece.

Thanks to all, and regards,

Stew

[John K Jordan]

...
Out here large chunks of oak, from any lumber supplier, are also going to be VERY high dollar. John (K.), thanks for the ideas on finding pallets.


Bummer. We are so spoiled here, living in an area full of hardwood trees, many of them oak. Oak can be one of the least expensive woods here, especially if green or air dried. Unfortunately, I have many tons of white oak and hickory logs in stacks since I haven't had time to saw them. If you ever get up this way give some notice and we can find and saw a few slabs of about any kind and size of hardwood you can carry in a passenger car or small pickup. One friend visited from a non-hardwood region and filled her station wagon with so much wood the springs and shocks were bottomed out for the return drive across the country. She kept trying to pay me far more than the wood was worth (around here).

There are also sawmills here that may have air-dried stock at a good price and wood dealers with a bit higher prices for KD domestic and exotics. I recently bought some 8/4 and 10/4 KD curly maple, walnut, cherry, y. poplar, goncolo alves, and E. Indian Roswood without having to mortgage the house. I cut these up into smaller pieces for woodturning.

JKJ

[glenn bradley]

I'd never sharpened a hand saw before and did fine on my first attempt after watching a few videos and reading up a bit. I was shocked at how quick and easy it was once I got over being nervous about messing it up.

I see a few options for some of the topics covered. If you require better lumber it may be worth scheduling a pleasure trip / getaway weekend that includes a stop at a decent yard. Pick up a boat load to make the trip worth while and have material for a few years. A one-way trailer might be a choice for the return trip. Acme has the Rikon 10-305 (https://www.acmetools.com/shop/tools/rikon-10-305?cm_mmc=Google-_-PRODUCTFEED-_-RIKON-_-10-305&CAWELAID=600009240005417158&CAGPSPN=pla&CAAGID=49855079687&CATCI=pla-380379380097&catargetid=600009240005422835&cadevice=c&gclid=CjwKCAjwyrvaBRACEiwAcyuzRDV7O-y1Jt6awzjusc9koI4MjyLTqEpzA1smBn57ySvZIJbCOZXp6xoC GJoQAvD_BwE)on sale and it will quickly deal with stock the thickness you are talking about.

[Jim Koepke]

Speaking of pallet wood, one of my favorites used to come from large printing facilities. A lot of paper is made in the east and many of the pallets are of hardwoods.

During my time as a copier repair tech many of the copiers from Japan came on pallets made of clear softwoods.

Take a look at the industries around you. One thing most have in common is shipping containers/pallets of which they have need to dispose. Someone looking for free wood might be their best friend.

My woodworking adventure started with making adirondack chairs with pallet wood.

jtk

[ken hatch]

Stew,

I'd find life pretty tough without a bandsaw. I know it can be done but I'd give up every machine and half the hand tools in my shop before letting go of the bandsaw. In a couple or three months a short drive to Tucson could net you a good deal on an 18'er :-). Waiting for the Powermatics to go on sale to buy my retirement present.

ken

[Christopher Charles]

Stew,

What Ken said....I bought my 18" bandsaw in large part b/c i have had access to quite a bit of free hardwood that is large dimension (timber frame rejects). The saw has long ago paid for itself via milling. Best of luck!

(Ken, pre-congrats on retirement!)

[ken hatch]

Stew,

What Ken said....I bought my 18" bandsaw in large part b/c i have had access to quite a bit of free hardwood that is large dimension (timber frame rejects). The saw has long ago paid for itself via milling. Best of luck!

(Ken, pre-congrats on retirement!)

Thanks Chris,

This job of the last 11 years was my semi-retirement job and for the first 8 or so years it was. The last 3 or 4 it has been long on the semi and short on the retirement. It is time to change that. It's a shame because it has been my chance to pay back an industry that was very good to a dumb old West Texas farm boy and I still really enjoy what I do, I just need to do a little less of it.

I hope to have a 18" Powermatic in my shop shortly after the next 10% off sale, whenever that is :-).

ken

Stew, sorry for the highjack but you really need to get a bandsaw.

[Stew Denton]

Ken,

No need to be sorry, I hadn't noticed it had been high jacked until you mentioned it, and I'm not totally convinced yet that it is.

I'd be interested in the 18" band saw, but you are a little out of the way from here, and I have no place to put one. My wife would be quick to point that out. I would be in very serious trouble if I put in the back room of our house.....she would definitely notice it.

Know what you mean about being without adult supervision. My wife has been and will be gone quite a bit this summer. When she is gone on a trip watching grandkids or whatever I am forced to fall back on my own poor judgment, which shows up very badly when at the grocery store. It may involve getting stuff that I like but is almost never at our house.

Didn't rip the lumber this evening, actual temperature 102, and heat index 109. (Probably not too hot for you where you are, but too hot for me to work outside in the sun.)

Stew

[Kees Heiden]

I want a bandsaw too!

But to give an idea about what difference a sharp ripsaw makes: For my current project I needed to resaw a few wallnut boards 50 cm long and about 25 cm wide. I kerfed both sides with my tablesaw 6 cm deep. That left about 13 cm in the middle. I thought my 4 1/2 ppi ripsaw was still pretty sharp and the first board took 20 minutes. Then I decided to give her a quick sharpen. That cut the time in half!

Sharp cures everything (almost).

[John K Jordan]

Sharp cures everything (almost).

That's a great line! I might use it. We repeat the idea often in woodturning.

JKJ

[Tom M King]

An old carpenter that worked for me back in the '80's had a slight variation on that quote. He'd say, "Sharp fixes all sorts of problems."

[Jake Rothermel]

I don't believe anyone has said this (in this thread anyways) but always be careful about sourcing pallets and what their purpose originally was. I admit I'm no expert but I have done some reading up on the subject and I was fairly surprised when I learned what kind of chemicals often goes into treating pallet wood; (think pressure-treatments for outside, saturation treatments for bugs, etc.). I can only imagine what those chemicals could do to you once you've breathed in that kind of dust. Hand tools certainly make it safe(r) since we're making shavings but anytime that wood's cut we make sawdust, too. I suppose it would depend a lot on the species of wood it was made from, too.... It might not be creosote or formaldehyde anymore, but, in some cases, it might just be worse!

There *are* plenty of untreated pallets out there; it really does seem to matter where they come from and what their intended purpose was, though. I think about this a lot when I'm looking over "free" lumber.

I guess I'm just pointing out (probably needlessly to you all) that not all pallets are created equal and, heck, some may even kill ya....

-Jake

[Dave Cav]

The other problem with pallet wood is that it's air dried and generally cut from culls that aren't good for much else. It's probably not going to stay straight. Other than for very basic/rough work I gave up on pallet and dunnage wood long ago (although we have a big granite countertop place up the road I may check out...).

If you do magically find room for a band saw, the 17" Grizzly models are about as close to a universal band saw as you will find. Small enough that blades don't cost a fortune, large enough to resaw successfully, not too expensive.

[Mike Allen1010]

Bummer. We are so spoiled here, living in an area full of hardwood trees, many of them oak. Oak can be one of the least expensive woods here, especially if green or air dried. Unfortunately, I have many tons of white oak and hickory logs in stacks since I haven't had time to saw them. If you ever get up this way give some notice and we can find and saw a few slabs of about any kind and size of hardwood you can carry in a passenger car or small pickup. One friend visited from a non-hardwood region and filled her station wagon with so much wood the springs and shocks were bottomed out for the return drive across the country. She kept trying to pay me far more than the wood was worth (around here).

There are also sawmills here that may have air-dried stock at a good price and wood dealers with a bit higher prices for KD domestic and exotics. I recently bought some 8/4 and 10/4 KD curly maple, walnut, cherry, y. poplar, goncolo alves, and E. Indian Roswood without having to mortgage the house. I cut these up into smaller pieces for woodturning.

JKJ

John, you're breaking my heart – I couldn't be more jealous living here in the hardwood desert of Southern California!


In support of your idea that hardwood lumber prices are highly dependent on geography; I recently ran across a pair of dressers built in the 1920s around Atlanta. Carcass sides/top were veneered with shop sawn Oak. After some disassembly, I found the panels under the veneer were solid, clear cherry. Who knew – kinda like discovering buried treasure? I guess in those days the maker considered cherry a "secondary wood" completely appropriate to be veneered over.


For what it's worth, please know that for an hardwood impoverished woodworker like me, your store of "tons of white oak and hickory logs" stack on your property are a mythic reality I can only dream about. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to vicariously imagine what that must be like.


Best, Mike

[steven c newman]

Around here, we have these all over the place..
390811
An Amish Saw Mill...
390812
This one usually has a large load of logs, everytime I drive by....looked like they had a little trouble with one log's size...

[John K Jordan]

After some disassembly, I found the panels under the veneer were solid, clear cherry. Who knew – kinda like discovering buried treasure? I guess in those days the maker considered cherry a "secondary wood" completely appropriate to be veneered over.


I plead guilty of a similar indiscretion. When remodeling the inside of the house recently, we needed some wood for filler in the walls and such. The easiest thing for me to do was grab some rough-sawn cherry boards from my barn loft and hand plane to thickness. So now I have cherry inside the walls.

I've used most of the 8/4 and 10/4 for woodturning but still have hundreds of board ft of cherry going to waste. I'd say it will make great firewood but once I mentioned how well cocobolo burns (like a candle!) and one guy almost had a heart attack. (Well, I was talking about waste pieces, too small to use!)

Without the perspective of people who life in hardwood starved areas, it is sometimes difficult for those of us who basically live in hardwood forests to understand. I do know one woodturning guy, who after communicating for some time, decided to move his family to TN from the south west, wanting to move anyway but swayed in part by the wood in the area. Domestic wood for woodturners is basically free in much of the East.

JKJ

[Jim Koepke]

While cleaning up some debris from tree cutting there was an old piece of what looked a bit rotten stuck in the ground.

It didn't want to split. With a bit of persuasion from a wedge and sledge it turned out to be a hunk of the local bog cherry or bitter cherry. It has been laying around for years, but still looks nice inside. My thought is to saw it up into some useable stock for making some small boxes or drawer fronts.

jtk

[steven c newman]

Pallets seems to be the main "Cash Crop" for the Amish around here.....for every one of the sawmills they run...there is another farm just down the road...making hardwood pallets by the flatbed loads...and no, they do not treat them. The Mill I pictured above? 1/4 mile west of there, there is a pallet shop.

[Stew Denton]

David,

You asked me to keep you posted. I have been busy, but finally got back to the3X6 (actually bigger than a 3X6). I had waxed the ends, and it had shown no signs of further splitting, so I had put off dealing with it because of higher priorities, but decided I had to cut it, thinking I was taking a chance of splits, so went at it earlier today.

I drew a line on one side of the lumber from one end to the other, tracing the center of the core, put it on my sawhorses/workbench in the back yard and got out my old sears circular saw, set the blade to cut about 5/8" deep and ripped it end to end. I set the blade a bit deeper and retraced the first cut, and then repeated it, this time a bit more than 1/2 way through.

I then flipped he plank over and repeated the above, and ended up with two pieces. Much easier than the 7 point rip saw. I spent more time getting out and putting away tools than making the cut. Maybe 15 minutes all told.

I am not terribly fond of using them, but power tools are wonderful for rough work like that. It was in the sun and around 90 degrees. Not ideal situation to rip up a 3" thick oak plank with a hand saw.

Stew

[David Myers]

I am not terribly fond of using them, but power tools are wonderful for rough work like that. It was in the sun and around 90 degrees. Not ideal situation to rip up a 3" thick oak plank with a hand saw.

Stew

Right there with you, Stew. What good is a glass of iced tea if your arms are too worn out to lift it?