This woodworker believes the solution to the kickback that happened

[Simon MacGowen]

was to install a riving knife:

https://youtu.be/GPEfykBtNhg?t=5m27s

You can also see the slow-motion capture at 8:15 or so.

He was lucky that his hand wasn't dragged into the spinning blade.

Simon

[Roy Petersen]

He has a full width fence; why not just push it all the way through so it's past the blade altogether?
Awful practice to begin with, but that was an accident waiting to happen.

[Andrew Hughes]

Ya know what’s weird for me is I used to have a unisaw that would pick up the cut off and throw the piece. Not everytime I just could never figure why so I just stood to the side of the saw and used a push stick.
I divorced myself from that saw for more then that reason
My current saw has not done me wrong it’s a very well behaved machine.Super accurate very quite machine. I still use push sticks or a pencil with a good eraser for smalls.

[Simon MacGowen]

Ya know what’s weird for me is I used to have a unisaw that would pick up the cut off and throw the piece.

Did that saw vibrate a lot? Or could it be possible that the saw blade was warped? Was the floor level or was the saw mounted level?

Simon

[Andrew Hughes]

It didn’t vibrate when it was running but it did thump at start.
I do remember that it had a dip in the top around the throat plate. It made squaring the blade vertical off the table challenging.

[Warren Lake]

he pushed the piece of wood into the blade when he picked it up, no mystery there.

As well old guy said dont pull stuff back on the blade, in this case left it sitting there, I see top people doing that all the time and ive done it as well usually tell myself not to. Is there something he didnt know about? the old guy, when you pull a machined part back across a shaper head when you have already gone forward.

Dip in the top throat point area formula for trouble, depending on how much stuff could drop after cut through. likely thats why your pieces were thrown.

[Dave Zellers]

He has a full width fence; why not just push it all the way through so it's past the blade altogether?

Exactly. Some things are just too obvious.

A sled would be better for small pieces like those but the same principle applies- push it all the way through until everything has cleared the blade. Then turn the saw off or walk around and pick up the two pieces. Then the sled can be pulled back for the next cut.

[Lee Schierer]

Well his riving knife might help, but he needs to work on his technique bay turning off his saw and letting it stop before removing small pieces near the blade. He could have easily received a serious injury on his hand.

[Simon MacGowen]

He has a full width fence; why not just push it all the way through so it's past the blade altogether?
Awful practice to begin with, but that was an accident waiting to happen.

I have seen many people do that, including in one of a woodworking TV production, probably because they want to avoid a fully exposed sawblade passing through the mitre gauge fence.

It is also tempting for many woodworkers to remove a small offcut while the blade is still spinning or coasting down.

Simon

[Bill Dufour]

A riving knife would not have made any difference in this case at all. The wood was pushed about 1/2 way through the blade so the back end was about even with the arbor. Probably 5" beyond any riving knife.
Bill D

[Warren Lake]

he pushed the piece into the blade when he was picking it up, the low heal lifted and spun the piece and fired it into him. He caused that to happen.

A riving knife would have made a difference, the wood would not have been pushed into the heal of the blade and that is what fired it not the side of the blade.

Shutting the saw off each time to pick up an offcut is silly.

[Simon MacGowen]

Shutting the saw off each time to pick up an offcut is silly.

This thinking explains why SawStop has designed its brake to remain active even when the saw is turned off while the blade is still coasting down, because with or without a sawstop, people will do the silly thing of removing offcuts with their hands. Why not? They have done that as a habit for a long time and nothing has happened until what is seen the video happens.

Even using a push stick to remove offcuts from a spinning blade is not a safe practice as the stick could catch the blade.

Simon

[Martin Wasner]

It is also tempting for many woodworkers to remove a small offcut while the blade is still spinning or coasting down.

I do it multiple times a day, I just don't shove any flesh in there. Stick, a previous drop, often times the eraser on my pencil.

"If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough"

Never mind, I just watched the video. That dude is just waiting to get picked off his family tree.

[John Halsted]

This guy isn't so great, but it is true that his riving knife would have prevented him from bumping the cutoff onto the back end of the blade.

[Roy Petersen]

his riving knife would have prevented him from bumping the cutoff onto the back end of the blade.
Unless that riving knife were wider than the kerf of that blade, it still had a chance of catching, though less of one. Any tooth that contacted the workpiece could have started it towards the full blade, in my opinion.
A riving knife won't prevent stupid. ;)

[Robert Pugmire]

Would a riving knife prevent that?

because it looks like he basically push the wood into the blade

[Simon MacGowen]

Would a riving knife prevent that?

because it looks like he basically push the wood into the blade

It would depend on the contact point. If the wood touched the blade before the riving knife (had it been installed), the kickback would still happen. Another factor is how the riving knife is aligned: some have the knife aligned with the right side of the blade, and the wood could still hit the spinning blade in that case, increasing the chances of a kickback.

That is why a riving knife reduces but does not rule out the chances of kickbacks. Many woodworkers including many youtubers do not recognize this, promoting in error the riving knife as a total and fool-proof kickback solution.

Simon

[andy bessette]

That guy is dangerous, not the saw.

[Simon MacGowen]

Unless that riving knife were wider than the kerf of that blade, it still had a chance of catching, though less of one. Any tooth that contacted the workpiece could have started it towards the full blade, in my opinion.
A riving knife won't prevent stupid. ;)

You sure recognized the risk. At a SawStop shop presentation, they pointed out the "finger saves" that happened in kickbacks while the riving knives were in place, but not the blade guards.

Incidents due to removing offcuts with a bare hand and resulting in the brake activation are well-documented in their injury archives. Such incidents are common with bandsaws too.

Simon

[David Kumm]

For a riving knife to help in that situation would be just plain luck. A river needs to be thicker than the plate but less than the tooth width. It will keep a cut from closing in the back against the plate but the teeth can still catch the stock- although the odds are much less. A cross grain cut should not close but no knife does any good once the cut is complete and the pieces are separated. Riving knives cut down on the odds for kickback but don't eliminate them and do very little in a case like this. Set the height correctly and run the fence through. Dave

[Simon MacGowen]

Is this guy dangerous?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIfuViyki0Q

I had been wondering after seeing a few of his horror video segments how come he could practice unsafe methods, but still beat the odds of getting harmed by any machine.

Simon

[Roy Petersen]

Is this guy dangerous?
Though he's working with no guards, riving knife or saw stop, that was carelessness and poor placement of the DC. You should *never* be reaching over the saw for anything, especially with that table saw having what looks like a light switch for the on button. Too simple to brush or hook that with clothing, I'd say. It should at least have a guard on it of some kind.

Actually, watching one of his other videos, he's definitely dangerous, and teaching others.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkvO99lswZg

Late in this one, he raises the blade, but fails to notice he's lifting the throat plate and does the cut anyway.
Push sticks or not, he makes me nervous.

[Simon MacGowen]

Now, the title of being a dangerous guy should be awarded to this "wood"worker: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qqp3nr2FKEE

Anyone disagree?

And this comment tops it all: "very nice but the music is horrible!!!"

Simon

[Simon MacGowen]

, and teaching others.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkvO99lswZg
.
He was TEACHING?

I hope he had had enough insurance coverage.

Simon

[Jacob Mac]

Don't push off cuts into the side of a spinning blade. I can't see a riving knife preventing that kickback. He did something that was pretty foolish.

[johnny means]

A riving knife would have definetely helped. You clearly hear the teeth start to cut into the piece. He also talks about the arc of shame cut into the piece by riding atop the blade.

[Mike Kees]

"Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool ". The biggest issue to me with this video has more to do with the amount of oxygen reaching this guys brain than what safety devices he did or did not use.

[Brian Nguyen]

Wow--there's some high amount of vitriol in this thread that's uncalled for. I don't know Laney Shaughnessy (the guy in the original video) personally but he was an instructor at the Woodworking Shows and I got to meet him briefly. He was very nice and definitely knowledgeable. Definitely did portray himself as perfect in person nor in the video. Sometimes accident happen, or we do something that's considered unsafe by the self-appointed safety police. I bet half of you guys probably wear flip flops into the shops without admitting it hah!

Oh and you don't even need to have a SawStop or even turn off your saw to make the safest of cross cuts--just use a big enough sled. Push forward to cut, pull back from the blade and then grab.

[Martin Wasner]

Wow--there's some high amount of vitriol in this thread that's uncalled for.

By all means, explain why we should celebrate stupid.

One of my favorite quotes of all time:
"Ignorance should be painful. If it can't be painful, it should be expensive"

[David Kumm]

I give the guy credit for allowing us to see his dumb move and the consequences. Some video guys have too much ego to admit they shortcut and cut that stuff out. Dave

[Tom Bender]

The problem started when he poked the corner of the piece into the blade. Would a riving knife have made any difference?

Follow the tracks in the piece. The first tooth lifted the piece and started it up and over the top of the blade to where some of it was on the other side of the plane. Clearly the knife would have stopped that motion.

To accelerate the piece the blade had to get a grip on it, to sink its teeth in. This took a little force against the teeth. This came from the inertia of lifting the piece off the table. A riving knife would have reduced or eliminated this.

However, an alternative path to kickback with the knife in place would be the piece being kicked up over the blade and falling back down onto the blade after the knife.

I definitely learned something here.

[Simon MacGowen]

I give the guy credit for allowing us to see his dumb move and the consequences. Some video guys have too much ego to admit they shortcut and cut that stuff out. Dave

As a SawStop owner, I harbor no delight when seeing those "finger saves" SawStop reports with images submitted by the SawStop users (they get a free cartridge as an incentive to report their finger incidents).

This woodworker as well as the one who cut his finger when he reached over for the dc switch was not the only one who shared his mishap with the public. Did they do a public service by sharing? I suppose so, but I wish before such incidents happened, they had done a video on their own shop safety which would have forced them to revisit their own safety awareness. Safety before techniques and efficiency, whether you woodwork for a living or for pleasure.

There are many popular videos out there in which unsafe tablesaw practices are seen, and it is a matter of time that another guy from one of those toutube warriors who will share his "incident" video. In fact, it is the productive ones (constantly making a large number of videos with unsafe habits or methods) who have a higher chance of producing an "incident" episode.

I recall that ironically, one video guy ordered a SawStop that had to yet be delivered, but then he cut his finger pretty bad as he was using his old saw for the last time for his video channel. Anyone who wants to teach someone woodworking with a tablesaw in person needs two things: a SawStop and a good insurance coverage. Your intentions do not matter when someone sues you. An old neighbor learned the hard lesson when he let a teen kid mow his lawn who got hurt in the process.

Simon

[andy bessette]

SM--this is getting tiresome.

[David Kumm]

Simon, I'm not sure what you are saying. This accident would have had the same result on any saw- including Sawstop. There have been a million posts here where people feel a riving knife eliminates kickback. It is not a bad education to see how a dumb move can negate a safety feature and assuming you are covered can be fatal. I'm not sure that only demonstrating techniques with a Sawstop is any more valid than teaching drivers ed with a $75000 car that has precollision, lane departure, traction control, autonomous braking and steering, etc. Sounds good but not practical. Dave

[glenn bradley]

This is getting circular. The guy in the video set himself up for the kickback in several ways. He had a sac-fence on his miter gauge and therefor could have easily pushed the off cut clear of the blade. The basic safety rule of keeping your hand away from a spinning blade takes care of reaching for an off cut that is next to a spinning blade as well as reaching past a spinning blade. For those that find themselves in the position to do this I suggest you reexamine your techniques. For those that do it just because they are impatient or because nothing has happened yet, please don't indicate that this is proper technique. We have beginners on here and they don't need that kind of info.

[Martin Wasner]

SM--this is getting tiresome.

The constant church of sawstop preaching?

[Simon MacGowen]

SM--this is getting tiresome.

For one thing in all my woodworking life, I never get tired of watching my back when it comes to shop safety. I plan to stay that way...until I am tired of woodworking.

Simon