Log section storage questions

[Ricc Havens]

When I get wood from a downed tree I have been cutting the log sections into short lengths (10-16") and cutting them in half to get rid of the pith. I brush on Anchor Seal and store in a log rack beside my garage. No matter if I cover the wood with a tarp or leave it uncovered the wood cracks as it gets hot sun between 10am-2pm. Even if it's sealed with Anchor seal or latex paint as other have suggested it still cracks badly. I have some recently cut cherry that I got a month ago and it has all cracked so bad that it's mostly unusable for bowls but I may be able to salvage some for spindle blanks. (I can't move it anywhere else around the outside of the house per the Boss Lady's mandate).

I have some room (not much) in our single car garage for about 6-8ft of storage along the inside of the "outside" wall opposite the wall shared with the house. What are your thoughts, ideas, tips, etc about storing sealed wood in the garage? Any suggestions on a log rack/ heavy duty wire shelves, etc??

I friend suggested that if I leave the wood stored outside that I use melted paraffin wax as an end sealer. But, will that slow the drying too much compared to Anchor seal?


Thanks
Ricc Havens
Elkhart, IN

[Randy Heinemann]

Anchor Seal seems to be a good sealant. I would guess that, because the wood is exposed to sun regularly, that's your problem. My suggestion would be to store the log sections in a covered area rather than a place that gets hot sun for 4 hours a day. The sun is baking the moisture right out of the wood. The drying process is most likely speeded up because of the sun, thus causing the cracks. I'm no expert but possibly experiment with some pieces in a different non-sun exposed area.

[Ricc Havens]

[QUOTE=.... My suggestion would be to store the log sections in a covered area rather than a place that gets hot sun for 4 hours a day. The sun is baking the moisture right out of the wood. The drying process is most likely speeded up because of the sun, thus causing the cracks. I'm no expert but possibly experiment with some pieces in a different non-sun exposed area.[/QUOTE]

Randy, thanks for the input. I know the sun is the issue but as I mentioned - that is the only outside location I can store wood so I can't experiment with different non-sun locations. that's why I am asking for input on storing the logs in the garage as it is covered and away from direct sunlight. But, also wanted to know if paraffin was better than Anchor seal no matter if the wood was stored inside a garage or outside.


Thanks
Ricc

[Kyle Iwamoto]

As a side track, I have been doing an experiment with pruning sealer. The spray can kind you use when you trim tree limbs. I do know some folks say not to use it, but I do. Anyways, I trimmed my tangerine tree, and kept 2 branches which I sprayed with the ends with sealer, and it hasn't cracked yet. Left under the tree in the most adverse conditions. Been several months. Citrus trees usually crack for me in a few days.

[daryl moses]

I prefer to leave the logs intact and cut blanks as needed when i can turn them immediately. I usually do need to cut a couple of inches off the end to get rid of the cracks.
If I can't leave the log whole I cut them into blanks and toss them in my Spring. I've had blanks in the water for over a year and they look like I cut them yesterday.
Fortunately I live in the country and have the room and means to do this, I understand most people can't.

[Ricc Havens]

Kyle - interesting! thanks for sharing.

Daryl - Unfortunately I don't have a way to keep logs intact. They have to be cut into sections so I can lift and load them into my station wagon or a friends small Nissan pickup. I don't have a way to haul logs to my house then get them thought a 36" wide gate to get them into the back yard. My wife for some reason is resistant to me storing logs on the front lawn in our neighborhood. :) :)


Ricc

[John K Jordan]

Bad news. The wisdom from the very experienced and professional green wood turners is simple: don't store log sections. They recommend to not accept more wood than you can process/turn in a couple of weeks. Storing it for an extended time, even with good end sealer, will almost always result in worthless firewood. Well known turner Stephen Russell preached this for years. In many parts of the country fresh green wood is available year around and for free, if you look for it.

Note that is is for most species of wood. A few, such as Eastern Red Cedar, can survive somewhat better. Some species (and individual trees) are horrible. Some species and specific trees, for example some cherry, are so bad that unsealed they will start cracking withing minutes of cutting. Sealed you might have a few weeks. (You really need to put green sections in the shade. Forget the tarp unless you suspend it to provide shade.)

The other John Jordan, the famous one, turns green wood. He gets wood in log form, even if he has to pay to have it delivered. He stores it in the shade, off the ground. When he wants to turn something he cuts 6" off the end of the log then cuts a blank. He said he never bothers with sealer.

I never even try to save short log sections. I process them as soon as possible into blanks for spindles, boxes, bowls, platters, etc. and let them dry for as long as needed. Some of the wood I am turning now has been air drying for over 10 years. Here are some blanks just cut from a short sassafras log section and others from ambrosia maple.
389439 389443
If the wood will fit I usually process it on my shop bandsaw, otherwise I cut up the blanks on the sawmill. BTW, my shop has heat and air.

I store all of my blanks in the shop until they are partially dry, then I move some of it to other locations which may get hotter in the summer but are still out of the weather and sun.. I use wire shelving units in the shop. I write the date of processing on every piece. I lose very little.

389440 389441 389442

One way to save short log sections is called "ponding" - simply submerse them in water. If the water is in a drum you may have to change it occasionally. If you you ave a spring-fed pond with constantly refreshed water you can simply sink the logs. They will stay in good shape for a LONG time.

Another way, if you have the space, is to freeze them. I experimented with freezing some green blanks once and after years in the freezer they were still in perfect shape.

If your only option is outside in the sun, just save yourself the storage space and heartbreak and split the pieces into firewood when you get them. If you have inside storage space, you might have more success cutting them up first. Remove the pith and any center cracks. I usually try to minimize the sapwood in blanks of many species, perhaps cutting blocks with sapwood on the corners.

JKJ

[Bob Bouis]

If you leave them as rounds cut about 4" longer than the bowl diameter, you can cut the checks off the end then rip along the major cracks and still usually get big bowls. At least if you use them in a reasonable time.

For some woods having the ends cut and being stored indoors under sealant will lead to very fast staining (usually gray or blue) from sapstain fungus.

[Alex Zeller]

Have you thought about storing them in water? Drive by any mill around here and they have sprinklers going to keep the logs wet while they are waiting to be cut. I wouldn't advise it in the winter when the water will freeze. I try to store my blanks in my basement where it's cool and no sun. Cherry seams to do well but some of the yellow birch split enough so it's firewood. The only good thing is that I have a ton of it growing around here. I was able to make one small bowl and it's really nice wood.

[Don Frank]

I picked up a cheap chest freezer on Craigslist and have had good luck storing blanks, rounds etc in there without any cracking. I can cut a bunch of stuff up and freeze them and put them straight onto the lathe without thawing. Also, if i'm doing a hollow form or even a bowl that I don't have time to finish I will unscrew the chuck and put the chuck and piece in the freezer with no adverse effects. I have a small drying kiln made from an old dishwasher. It works great but only if you can completely fill the thing with green bowls and not open the door for two weeks or more. I will rough turn a stack of bowls over a week or two and put them in the freezer. When I get enough simply fill the kiln and start over. I have been playing with this for awhile with good results.
In the past I was hesitant to start a piece of an evening if I knew that I would not get it finished up in one setting. I'm talking primarily about hollow forms. This has solved that problem because I can stop and start again at any phase.

[Ricc Havens]

John, thanks for the photos and response. I do cut and process fresh wood. But, I have a small basement shop in the furnace room as the rest of the basement is finished. So I'm running out of room to store cut blanks.

I can't do the "ponding" idea as I live in a neighborhood without a creek, etc. Freezing them is out too as no room left in basement shop area for a freezer. With a single car garage I'd rather try a log rack or shelves first than buy a used freezer that can only hold a few pieces.

I wish I could do what the other John Jordan does and only get green wood as I need it. But, I unfortunaley I don't drive due to a vision issue (I'm legally blind as I have lost all peripheral vision) So I have no way to regularly go and get wood. I have to take what I get when someone wants to drop off a few pieces or when I can get a piece or two in the wife's car. But, living in an urban area I don't have much access to free wood. When I have found a tree service cutting down trees in someon'e yard and stop and ask for some they want me to haul it away right away and not leave pieces for me to come back later and get. I have no place to store long log sections to be able to cut as I need a piece.

So I'm just trying to find a way to work within my limitations of storage space and accessibility and not lose as much as I am losing to cracking.

Thanks
Ricc

[Ricc Havens]

Alex, I have no place for water log storage. And I'm running out of room in my small basement shop to store in the basement.

Thanks
Ricc

[Ricc Havens]

I picked up a cheap chest freezer on Craigslist and have had good luck storing blanks, rounds etc in there without any cracking. I can cut a bunch of stuff up and freeze them and put them straight onto the lathe without thawing. Also, if i'm doing a hollow form or even a bowl that I don't have time to finish I will unscrew the chuck and put the chuck and piece in the freezer with no adverse effects. I have a small drying kiln made from an old dishwasher. It works great but only if you can completely fill the thing with green bowls and not open the door for two weeks or more. I will rough turn a stack of bowls over a week or two and put them in the freezer. When I get enough simply fill the kiln and start over. I have been playing with this for awhile with good results.
In the past I was hesitant to start a piece of an evening if I knew that I would not get it finished up in one setting. I'm talking primarily about hollow forms. This has solved that problem because I can stop and start again at any phase.

Don, thanks for the info. I have thought about a dishwasher kiln but my small basement shop has limited room. I'm more concerned about storing wood before I get a chance to turn in it into bowl blanks.

Thanks
Ricc

[Karl Loeblein]

Ricc,

There's not much you can do to stop some many logs sections from fruit woods like Cherry & Mulberry and many oaks from splitting unless you can keep them from drying out. Suggest first turning the log blanks into cylinder rounds (like a block of cheese). Then coat them 'completely' with either melted wax or at least two layers of Anchor Seal. This will give you time to get them roughed out later. You will probably need to slightly reseal the roughed out blanks for a the final drying cycle.

[Stan Calow]

I've kept some ash log sections in one of those plastic patio boxes so they're not conspicuous. So far have minimal cracking after two years. I've tried to store fruitwood before and bugs get to them if covered.

[Robert Marshall]

I have several used 55 gal. barrels with tops, that I bought at a local bee/honey place, for $18 apiece. I use them to store half-rounds of green wood, with the barrel tops loosely in place. The loose tops keeps the rain out (mostly), but lets it breathe some.

Works pretty well for me, mostly storing maple and cherry pieces. You can get a lot of spalting, and bugs, so you have to watch it carefully. Sometimes I will take the tops off for a while on a nice day, to reduce the humidity. Sometimes I have to tip a barrel over to drain it, if it has accumulated some water. Or, you could try filling a barrel with water deliberately, which some folks swear by as a storage method. I haven't tried that myself.

And if a piece of wood gets too far gone to turn, I will sometimes cut that up into spindle-sized pieces, and use vacuum-resin stabilization on it. Extreme spalting can produce some extremely colorful and interesting pieces of wood, for small projects like wine bottle stoppers, handles for kitchen items, etc.

[Peter Blair]

Ricc I usually cut my logs as you say you do and I have had success with using a few old sheets of plywood to reflect the sun but I do also tarp them behind the plywood.

[Randy Heinemann]

Anchor Seal seems to be a good sealant. I would guess that, because the wood is exposed to sun regularly, that's your problem. My suggestion would be to store the log sections in a covered area rather than a place that gets hot sun for 4 hours a day. The sun is baking the moisture right out of the wood. The drying process is most likely speeded up because of the sun, thus causing the cracks. I'm no expert but possibly experiment with some pieces in a different non-sun exposed area.

I have only recently obtained some short green logs and a few green blanks. While Anchor Seal (and Rockler's product Green Wood End Sealer) seem to hold checks to a minimum, but don't stop them completely. Still, I think use of these products is a reasonable way to keep green short logs and blanks, without too much loss. Since I got this wood essentially free, I can stand to lose a little by it checking. If I were you, I'd try either of these products and lay a thick layer on at least any open end grain. May not be a bad idea to do the whole piece if it is a green blank to make sure it doesn't bleed moisture too quickly or at all until you're ready to turn that piece. Just a further reminder, I don't have a lot of experience but, from what I've seen so far, these products improve the stability of these woods but don't eliminate all of the problems.

[Michael Mills]

Just a possibility..
My shop is fairly small and when I did flat work I stored the boards high (7 ft). I made some brackets out of 2X4 and came down about a foot from the ceiling. Brackets were about 1 foot wide and I had 50+ linear feet around three walls. Should work for single stacking your log sections also. Gave quite a bit of storage space without using up any floor area.

I cut my long the same way as you but have room on one wall the carport out of the sun for a full floor to ceiling rack.
I also find cherry (along with holly) almost impossible to keep without bad cracking.

[Dave Bunge]

(I can't move it anywhere else around the outside of the house per the Boss Lady's mandate).

I have some room (not much) in our single car garage for about 6-8ft of storage along the inside of the "outside" wall opposite the wall shared with the house. What are your thoughts, ideas, tips, etc about storing sealed wood in the garage? Any suggestions on a log rack/ heavy duty wire shelves, etc??



Ricc,
I store blanks in my garage with pretty good success. I cut thru the pith or a bit on each side of the pith for larger logs. I cut the logs abou 4" longer than the diameter of the bowl I want make, as someone else had mentioned, to give a buffer against end checking. I coat with Anchorseal (original formulation) and store, standing on end, on the floor of the garage. Actually not directly on the floor. I put down a piece of cardboard from a discarded box and place the blanks on it. If you put directly on the floor, you will stain the concrete from mold/decay that happens under the log.

I don't use any racks, just put on the floor. Often I'll stack a 2nd layer on top of the first to minimize the footprint I take up.

As others have mentioned, use the wood as soon as possible for best results. But I have had good luck with cherry up to a couple of years old. And ash and elm blanks have lasted even longer, maybe because they came from trees that were dead before they were cut down.

Any wood with bark is messy in the garage and does bring some insects with it. But I haven't had any problems with my Boss Lady, as long as I don't put wood where she parks her van.

Dave

[John K Jordan]

...I cut thru the pith or a bit on each side of the pith for larger logs. ..., use the wood as soon as possible for best results. But I have had good luck with cherry up to a couple of years old.

That's the key - lets the 1/2 shrink and warp without pulling itself apart at random places.

JKJ

[Peter Blair]

Ricc one more option is to store in large plastic garbage containers. I have several under a deck and they do not sit in the sun but have worked very good. I would again recommend that if you choose this method I would shield them from direct sun rays by standing a sheet or a few sheets of plywood. For the first two months or so I removed the lids for a day or so about once every couple of weeks. Best of luck!

[Ricc Havens]

thanks for all the information everyone!!

Ricc