Importing Combination Machine from China as an Individual-- My Adventure (So Far)

[Matt Schrum]

The below is a summary of the process I went through to buy and import a Euro style 5-in-1 combination machine from China. I apologize in advance for the length of the post-- I could find virtually no information online as I went through this process myself and I wanted to share for others considering the same leap of faith. Unless you're looking at buying one of these (or you're procrastinating that next project), this probably won't be too exciting for you.

So, here it goes:
I have a two car garage, or more accurately, half of a two car garage as my wife appreciates being to pull her truck in when the weather calls for it. I currently have a 6" jointer, 15" planer, a table saw with extended wings (50"-ish capacity right of the blade?) and an attached cast iron router table. Add in the full sized wood lathe and a good sized CNC machine, and space is tight (I came from the Tetris generation and it shows). I've wanted to upgrade to a sliding table saw (4'x8'x3/4" melamine is fun on a "normal" table saw) and came across the Euro combination machines. It looked like it'd maybe save me some space and I'd get a slider, what's not to love?


I got a hold of one of the name brand reps and they put me in touch with a local woodworker that had a Hammer C3 31. It was nice, but it just didn't quite feel like $10-13K nice to me. If it was $5-7K, then I'd probably be typing a different story. I spent months monitoring the used market, but even near a major city, not a whole lot popped up.


So, I knew they manufactured a lot of major woodworking machines in Asia and I looked into it. I found a machine with virtually all of the specs I wanted from a manufacturer that'd sell them individually (many have a minimum order of 2+) on Alibaba. After LOTS of emails back and forth with questions, asking for pictures, and clarifying specs, I placed an order in the middle of March. About $3500 for the machine and $350 shipping to get it from China to Denver, Colorado-- 50% on order, 50% on ready to ship. It looked to be good quality through the pictures (and two crappy YouTube videos), but I figure I am handy and I have a buddy with a machine shop. If something does go wrong wrong, it'll get fixed. I should also point out that the base price was lower ($3100ish?), but what's that, you want 220VAC and 60Hz? Yeah, that costs more, it's not standard. I forget what else, but you get the idea, you deviate slightly from the usual and you can add on a week and $250.


Speaking of problems, so during the order process, the online marketplace tossed in a free inspection for orders over $XXXX amount. So, over a month after I placed the order the machine was ready to ship (May 8 if you're keeping score at home) and I got the inspection report-- what a joke. The same report said it was crated and that they tested all of the functions of the machine. I find it hard to believe that they had it assembled, ran it, broke it down for crating, and crated while the inspector was hanging around-- and that they had 220VAC, 60Hz power to run it. What was useful about it was that I got more pictures. I found out a typo on the name plate ("moter"-- which really bugged me, although it's minor) and that they put a US 110VAC plug on it. I told them it was the wrong plug for the US and tried to get a discount (worth a shot), but was told that they've never had anyone complain about it before and I'd have to change it myself. Bah humbug.


So, inspection report is in, the machine is crated, and it's ready to ship-- I paid the last 50% and thought I was good to go. Yeah, about that. When I ordered, I made it clear that I was one person, did not have a freight company on retainer, and they needed to get this thing to Denver with zero help from me. I've never imported anything and I didn't want to hose the paperwork and have things get hung up. Well, turns out there is still some legwork to do. They sent me the Bill of Lading and asked that I have an Importer Security Filing (ISF) form filed by my agent-- and they need that form filed before they can load the cargo on the slow boat over here. Well, I don't have an agent and I wasn't going to pay one $300 to do some paperwork. I'm stubborn. So I looked into it and the ISF form requires a Importer of Record IRS Number-- which, if you're an individual, you can fill out a Customs and Border Protection (CBP) form 5106 for free and get it yourself (it ends up that they use your SSN-- they just need your information in the system so they don't reject the shipment at the port). Awesome, filled out CBP 5106 and... and, wait, how do I file this? No directions online, no email address to send it to, no Submit button, no directions about how to actually file this thing. What the heck. I called Customs (we have an office here in Denver) and they said I could come by and drop off the form. So, I did and a few hours later I got confirmation I am all in the system. I'm an importer now, great, good to go! Well... not quite.That got me the Record IRS number, but you have to fill out another form to be in the system to actually file an ISF-- but it's also free. Except that it can take up to two weeks to get approved and my equipment is sitting on a dock waiting to be loaded. Wish I would have known that sooner!


So, I broke down and contacted a local freight company that deals with international shipments and imports. $75 and two more forms later, the ISF was all filed. If you don't file this yourself, have a real, live person do it-- don't do it online on those "File immediately for $90/$120/$200!". It looked complicated to do and they charge you more than you need to be because they want to have you pay to secure a bond for the shipment. For personal shipments for non business reasons, you don't need to have a bond. Go local, get a person that does it every day and pay the fee-- plus, in my case, it was cheaper by $15 and the lady was super helpful.


So, I got that all straightened out and my crates were loaded on the slow boat around May 18-20. There's no real tracking for containers in the middle of the Pacific, so I waited. On June 7 I received an arrival notice (well, phone call asking for my email so they could send the notice) from a freight company that my shipment was in the port of Los Angeles, yay! Also, it's going to be taken out of port and put in a warehouse, you owe us $90. Well, crap, at least I beat the 25% tariffs. To be honest, that $90 fee might have been it clearing customs? I had planned on doing that here in Denver (free and sounded easy--and clearly told the Chinese vendor I'd do it myself a few times), but when I called the local CBP office, they said it was already cleared. I balked to the vendor about the fee because I couldn't have been more clear that I wanted this thing to make it to Denver without any help on my side. Their reply was fairly blunt and said the fee wasn't their problem (more or less). I don't know if it was a translation issue or if they never knew about the fee, but I was irked-- at least it was finally here in the States.


After it cleared port, got moved to a warehouse, then loaded on a truck Thursday and I got notice that it arrived here in Denver on Monday (June 25th) and was ready for pickup once I coughed up another $85 (come on, more warehouse fees?!) and got a form from CBP saying I was in good standing with them. I talked to CBP on the phone and all I need to do is bring in my Bill of Lading, they will stamp it, and I can present that to the warehouse. I'm going on Friday to pick it up from the warehouse (buddy has a flatbed trailer and a forklift for unloading it once it's at my place-- ~1500lb ship weight).


So, after about 4.5 months and about $4K (a little over after warehouse and freight fees) I'll have a 8.5' slider, shaper, mortiser, 12" planer, and 12" joiner combination machine. We'll see how the adventure continues and I will post more once I unpack, assemble, and fire the thing up. I'm plenty nervous about the quality or potential issues (and have not sold any of my existing equipment just for that reason), but I'm fairly confident it'll all work out. If you have any questions (now, or if you're reading this two years from now), shoot me a message and I'll do what I can to help. If you search "ML310G Combination machine", you'll see what I ordered-- and I'll get some video reviews up later this year once I settle into the machine and have it all set up.


Hopefully I'll have another post to add here (and pictures) in a week or three.

[Peter Christensen]

I’ll thank you for blazing the trail few would try. I look forward to seeing how the rest of your story unfolds.

[Dan Friedrichs]

Very interesting! Please continue with updates!

[Joe Adams]

You, my friend, are a braver man than I.

The most I've done was import a couple of cans of wood finish from Germany via eBay.

[Patrick Kane]

Ha, this is quite the story. I will be very interested to hear how this ends up once you get it home and working. What design is this a knock off of?

Im not certain for $4k, but for probably $5-7K you could have had a used minimax from the states. They dont come up often(4-6 months ago i feel like i saw a handful pop up within weeks of one another), but in a year of looking you would have a few shots across the country. Much like your adventure overseas, you need to get comfortable with buying without touching or running the machine. The importing paperwork and dealing with translated emails sounds god awful.

[Matt Schrum]

Ha, this is quite the story. I will be very interested to hear how this ends up once you get it home and working. What design is this a knock off of?

Im not certain for $4k, but for probably $5-7K you could have had a used minimax from the states....The importing paperwork and dealing with translated emails sounds god awful.

To be honest, I'm not familiar enough with the name brand offerings to know what this is a knock off of. Once I get some pictures up, I'm sure it'll look familiar to someone. I did consider some of the newer offerings, but the ones in my price range had a short slider. I forget which one (C 26 Genius?), but the slider was like 45", not even enough for a sheet of plywood the short way.

As far as used equipment popping up, I had saved searches set up for within 100 miles of me-- so I suppose I could have expanded that. I just found it hard still paying $7-15K for a 10-15 year old machine (for the ones I did see). And shipping from the other side of the country was going to cost me another grand or two, so really it became easier to look to China. How in the heck they managed to get it from China to CA to CO for under $400 is ridiculous.

For the emails and translation issues, yes, it was pretty terrible. In fairness, the English skills of the lady I was corresponding with was pretty good-- but trying to translate or simplify technical questions was a pain (try translating "dado stack" to conversationalist English). I eventually gave up trying to get some details and just crossed my fingers.

Should be picking it up tomorrow morning if all goes well-- and I will continue to update this forum. Like I said, fingers crossed it all goes well-- otherwise my wife will never let me live down this purchase!

[eric burns]

Pretty wild. Looking forward to updates on this.

What advice would you give someone if they wanted to go this route, if you were to do it over again?

[Brad Shipton]

I imported some CNC servos direct from China and was about as reluctant as you. This company had been selling on ebay for some time, and had many very good reviews. I was still nervous, so I started with a small order of a single name brand servo that was less than 1/2 the cost here for the exact same part. The deal went very well and in my case the email discussions went very very well. North America, US in particular, is a huge market full of people with coin. They are very motivated.

There are many in the US and Canada that have created their CNC business by importing direct from China and marking up for resale. One you have searched Alibaba enough you start to recognize the parts. The trick is finding a supplier that holds their specs and machines the parts consistently to the tolerances they claim to meet. We have a member in the CNC forum that has retrofitted a number of import machines and he has shown some of the problems he has found when he takes them apart.

In fairness, a dado stack is North American. If you were buying from someone in Europe they would be about as confused as they were in China. SCM and Felder make models to export to North America equipped with a dado stack.

[Chris Parks]

I was lucky with my importing experiences all of which were VFD's. I approached a company and told them it would be ongoing with ongoing orders and they were excellent to deal with and I had a single contact person who spoke and wrote Australian as good as I do. I even had a few technical problems early on and they rang me from China to help so support does not get better than that. On the other hand I have heard some horror stories that never turned out well.

[Alex Zeller]

A coworker imported a press for rapeseed to turn it into oil. He went through the same process (give or take as I can't remember all the details). But the price difference made it worthwhile. I'm not sure if I would have the guts to do it myself. It seams like this would be a great place for someone familiar with the process to make some money. For example if the OP's $4000 adventure cost him $4500 and required nothing at all and could have saved a month or so I'm sure more people would be tempted. Not only that but if you could line up more than one customer for a particular product so you could meet the minimum quantity, say have a website where people post what they want and wait for a second person to say they want one two. As long as the buyer paid directly so you wouldn't have to use your money there wouldn't be too much of a downside. I think you would quickly learn the ropes and make contacts that would make the process even easier.

[Matt Schrum]

Pretty wild. Looking forward to updates on this.
What advice would you give someone if they wanted to go this route, if you were to do it over again?

As of right now, the only advice I would probably recommend is to use a broker and don't handle the importing yourself. I was on the fence about this, but one more paperwork snafu (that was not my issue or something I could do anything about) cost me about 4 hours in phone calls and waiting for things to get straightened out. I had the day off, so it wasn't a huge deal, but depending on what I think my time is worth, a couple of hundred bucks at the beginning probably would have saved me a week on shipping and made the day of pickup go a lot more smoothly.

So, enough about paperwork problems, I got the crates picked up (thank God for friends with flatbeds and forklifts) and dropped off just inside my garage late Friday night. I popped the top of the crate off Friday just to make sure wit wasn't full of sawdust and bricks, then left it for this morning. I got the thing uncrated this morning, and the crate was absolutely mediocre/adequate. It looked like heck, was made of thin plywood (not a single 2x4 at all), and probably wouldn't have put up with much more handling--- but, upon opening it, everything was packaged nicely within the crate with no real damage. A couple of corners with scuffed paint, but I was fearing far worse.

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Unfortunately, my buddy's forklift was too tall (or, rather, my garage opening was too short) for him to move the crate much past the door, and in the second picture you'll notice that it's 90 degrees off of what would be really convenient for attaching the slider. So, with some 2x4's as long levers and some creativity, I got it off the pallet, rotated 90 degrees, and far enough in that I could attach the slider and still close the garage. I then went in and ordered some leveling/retractable casters (that should be here Monday) to put on the thing so I can scoot it around a bit easier when needed.

I spent the rest of the day assembling the thing and-- besides the terrible (and generally useless) documentation---- overall I am impressed. It was like putting together a LEGO set with only a picture of the final product, but I love tinkering, so it wasn't too bad. I do have two small mystery pieces left that I'm going to email them about, but that's it. The machine itself: the metal is a heavier gauge, heck-- the machine is heavier than can be, everything lines up great, the machined surfaces look awesome, there's not a spot of rust (plenty of grease on everything) and only a minor scratch or two--- I really haven't found any issues yet. I even sat on the end of the 8.5' slider and my wife was able to push it with ease. I haven't run any wood through it, but everything seems to run smoothly and fairly quietly. I do need to pop off the 12" blade it came with (and it has a tiny scoring blade, nice!) to see if the arbor will let me fit my 10" blade collection (unlikely, but fingers crossed). Finally, I was able to attach my cast iron Bench Dog router table this evening, so that was pretty awesome too. I know I have a shaper, but I can't see that replacing every operation I want to do. One more thing to note, instead of giving me a bag of hardware, EVERY bolt was threaded into its hole. For example, there are six bolts used to attach a slider support-- the support was bubble wrapped and not attached, but the six bolts, lock washers, and washers were threaded into their final holes so you knew exactly where they went. That was super handy and convenient.

I'll get more pictures up probably next week. My shop looks horrendous with stuff scattered about, but once I put wheels on this thing and run it through its paces hopefully I'll sell off my jointer, planer, and table saw I'll get some proper pictures posted. We'll see what I think once I make some saw dust, but right now I am pretty stoked about my purchase.

[Mikail Khan]

Good to hear that things are going well.

MK

[Jim Becker]

'Glad things are moving along. One thing...if your garage has a sloped floor as so many do, you'll be best served by placing the machine either perpendicular or parallel to the slope using the slider wagon as the reference for direction. While an angled placement often is better for space utilization, a sloped floor and an angle position can present challenges with keeping things from bending/deforming, despite being made of stout metals.

[Matt Schrum]

'Glad things are moving along. One thing...if your garage has a sloped floor as so many do, you'll be best served by placing the machine either perpendicular or parallel to the slope using the slider wagon as the reference for direction....

Jim, thanks for the tip, I hadn't even thought of that. My garage is sloped, but fortunately the layout that works best at the moment is to have the wagon parallel with the slope.

[Rick Potter]

Just a thought, that works well for me. I picked up a pallet jack used for $60, used it for moving some large stuff around, and sold it when I was done.

I decided I really liked it and bought a narrow (21" wide) pallet jack to keep, and am slowly making pallet type risers under all my big machines. They are simple plywood on 4X4 rails, spaced to fit the jack. I don't need them so far, but adjustable feet could easily be used also.

This way I can eliminate several mobile bases I am not happy with. My tools are all raised up about 4". It's a good way to move heavy work benches also.

The pallet jack just slides under an assembly bench with only the handle part taking up space.

[Matt Schrum]

So while I haven't put a ton of hours on this machine yet, I thought it'd be worthwhile to share my first impressions while they were still fresh in my mind.

It looks like I left things off at unpacking and assembly. Again, while the paper instructions were relatively worthless, it went well. All of the hardware was pre-installed (it wasn't a bag of mystery bolts and trying to guess the location) and the machine made it halfway across the globe with only a few scuffs in the paint. Overall, after assembly, most everything was already set up well, level, and true. It did not seem as if this was something they thoughtlessly slapped together.

First of all, a couple of overall pictures of the machine how she sits today:
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Above: General view of it, 2 year old dog for scale. Please excuse the messy shop-- in between my ongoing projects, selling my old equipment, and rearranging the shop there is a lot going on.
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Above: A view of the controls as well as peek at the planer. Sidenote, while I added the magnetic strip for the tools, they included EVERYTHING you needed to assemble or maintain it.

So, first thing I did (after wiring in a new cord with the proper plug and enough length to reach an outlet) was order some retractable casters as you can see in the second pic. I ended up attaching them to some 4" angle iron before bolting them on the machine. It's not super easy to move on the casters-- I mean, it's still 1400 lbs, but I can move it on my own, so that's good enough. I don't anticipate moving it often, so it's not a big deal. It did add about 3" of height to the machine, but it was sitting lower than all of my other equipment to start with, so it worked out well. At the moment I have scraps of wood under the slider outriggers, but I'll sort out a better solution at some point.

Walking through the machine
The slider: Beefy and smooth. I can sit on one end of it and it slides smoothly. There is no play in it and the extrusion seems beefy. However, setting the fence on the slider to 90 degrees was more frustrating than I would have liked. There is a nice, bold angle scale on the table (see pic below, that is 0/90 degrees), but it's off be about a degree.... and riveted down. No adjustment.
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The fence pivots on one end (solid and tight, no play), and then clamps on the underside below the angle gauge. It seemed solid, but I noticed if you gave it a good whack, you could nudge the fence-- there was no hard stop. From another project, I had a mini XY table, so I bolted that on (see pic below), then scooted it over to make contact with the extrusion and locked it down-- ta da! An adjustable hard stop.
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The saw: Runs smooth and true. It takes a 12" blade on a 30mm arbor. Well, it's a 25mm threaded arbor that steps up to 30mm. Because of this, I was able to drop my 10" blade in and use them for a bit... but for a couple of reasons (such as adjusting the riving knife, compensating for it not really being fully seated when measuring, etc.), I think 10"-ers will be more hassle than they are worth. I'll probably sell all of those and pick up a couple of 12" blades. The arbor is not keyed or pinned to the blade-- one single 30mm hole in the center is it. Dust collect on the saw is okay. I was cutting some thin strips that actually fell down the small gap and they were a pain to get out of the dust collection chute/hose-- and there is plenty of saw dust under the saw now-- so I can't say the dust collection is any better than "okay"

The fence: The extrusion is nice and solid and the scale has two sets of measurements-- one for the low side of the extrusion fence towards the blade, one with the high side towards the blade. That is where everything good with the fence stops. The scale is in metric (understandable, though the planer is in metric and imperial) and the 3/4" wide window to read the measurements has no line (see pic below). You have a 3/4" wide window and you get to guess where the fence is. What a joke. It tightens down nicely-- but as you tighten it, it shifts about 1/16 to 1/8" (I probably need to file the end of the bolt, but still annoying). The fence does have an attached metal guard for the jointer I will probably remove (in case you were wondering what the orange metal flap is-- and it's backwards in the main pic). But, all in all, I'll likely replace the fence in some fashion. I have never used or owned a slider before this, so I don't know how much I will use the fence, or in what capacity, but once I figure out what I want to do, this fence set up will be in the trash.
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The jointer: It's a 12" jointer with two blades and is the "normal" design (not a Tersa head). It runs well and I have no complaints. It locks down nicely (the tables flip up to use the planer) and the adjustment is pretty straightforward. The guard design is nice-- it's the Euro style that you can raise or lower depending on the board thickness. However, I had a good chuckle when I realized it was made out of wood (pic below). It's not going to damage the blades if it get's pressed down into them somehow, but I'll have to find a better substitute material at some point.
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The planer: I love it. I am stepping down from a 15" planer to a 12" (it uses the bottom of the jointer as you'd expect), but it's solid and planes well. I never used my 15" to the full width, so hopefully this will do for the foreseeable future. I don't have any good pics of it, but it has a single column that raises and lowers a cast iron platform. The handwheel turns smoothly and easily (though I am already thinking about how to slap a stepper motor on there to automate it), and while the cast iron platform has some rotational play, there is zero up and down slop at all. In fact, I ran some 3 foot oak boards through there the other night and I couldn't see any snipe--I'm sure there's a little bit, but it is nothing like what I saw on my 15" planer (which I thought was already good). I forgot to mention, one thing I'm not a huge fan of is the infeed roller that pulls/pushes the wood through has some SHARP (or jagged) ridges for gripping the wood. If you take a big enough cut, it doesn't matter, but it is stupid sharp. The outfeed roller is nearly smooth steel (some tiny ridges/machine marks that run parallel around the roller) and doesn't seem to be an issue. Also, the planer has only one feed speed, but it seems reasonable. I was content with the quality of the wood surface that came out of it.

The mortiser: This attaches to the side of the planer/jointer (pic below-- inside the orange guard is a drill chuck), but I haven't so much as mounted the table. It looks smooth and solid like the rest of the machine, so I think it'll work well.
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The shaper: Runs smooth and they included a head (with straight blades-- I had a pic attached, but ran over the limit) but I have not run any wood through it yet. It is a 30mm diameter shaft. The also included some guards/guides for using it (not pictured) that look pretty straightforward.


My modifications: Besides the wheels, power cord, and magnetic tool strip I have already noted, I think the only other thing I have really done is mount my Bench Dog cast iron router table (pic below). There was a blue, sheet metal table there (and it was sturdy), but I wanted a router table and the dimensions worked well. I was even able to use the lower supports for the sheet metal table and it's sturdy. I'd be leery about sitting on the end of it, but I have no concerns for anything short of that or general use.
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I think that mostly sums things up at the moment. They included a number of small accessories I didn't show and I skimmed over some details-- but overall I am stoked about this machine. The fence is a joke, but everything else on the machine seems solid, decent quality, and relatively well thought out. For example, I couldn't get the thing to start the other day. After pulling out some hair and taking a multimeter to things, I found the problem. There are a number of microswitches throughout the machine and I left an access door open. With the door open, it won't start. There are a couple on the jointer and planer also. I forgot to mention above that the red e-stop buttons are well placed and work well-- but the plastic is a bit brittle. I wasn't paying attention and hammered one with my knee and did crack part of one, but I'm still considering that not a huge deal. I think I have a couple of those buttons and enclosures in a drawer somewhere (I tinker a lot), so I'll get a new one on there soon enough.

This post has turned into a novel, so I'll wrap things up. Overall I am happy with my ML310G from Zicar/Jaya (and the customer support has been great as well-- I had a question about where a small part was installed and the next morning they sent me a close up picture of it installed and an explanation. Couldn't have been clearer) and look forward to really putting it through its paces.

[Martin Wasner]

Nice looking Vizsla!

[Mike Cutler]

Nice looking Vizsla!

Yep, that's a pretty one for sure. I have the same shop mates.:D
Is that one of Hank's, Rebel Rouser dogs?

[Martin Wasner]

Yep, that's a pretty one for sure. I have the same shop mates.:D
Is that one of Hank's, Rebel Rouser dogs?

Are you on Instagram? I think I follow somebody who has a woodshop and a pair of Vizslas. Mine pretty regularly shows up on the company Instagram page.

[Mike Cutler]

Martin

No, I've never been on Instagram. I did post on a Vizsla Forum for a few years, but haven't been active in quite awhile
As an aside, I've had Vizlsa's since 1988. Absolutely great pets and bird dogs.
Mine have all been Upwind dogs, which were crossed out to the Rebel Rouser line in the 80's and 90's. I think I have among the last of the Upwind dogs there will ever be, as the breeder passed away in 2009.

Matt
That is a good looking Vizsla you got there. The machine is nice too. ;)

[Martin Wasner]

I wish I liked eating pheasant. Mine is 13 months old, abd the predator switch turned on in her in a matter of weeks it seems. Not interested to chasing down scents like crazy. Great dogs, albeit very stubborn.

Sorry for the hijack Matt. It's just an uncommon breed and I'm always surprised to see one.

[Jim Becker]

It's really nice that that BenchDog table fit in that spot like it did!

Thanks for the update.

[Matt Schrum]

Ha, you're fine guys. She's a handful and a heckuva dog-- we got her from a breeder in Iowa out by my folks. We have a Weimaraner as well that occasionally makes appearances in my project pictures.

[Nick Decker]

Certainly gives new meaning to the term BenchDog!

[Matt Schrum]

It's really nice that that BenchDog table fit in that spot like it did!
Right? That was luckier than I could have expected. I was anticipating making my own router table attachment-- in fact, I was looking at your slider set up with the router for ideas while I was waiting for mine to arrive.

[Jim Becker]

Yea, I lucked out with the fit on mine, but I didn't have the J/P piece to contend with that you do!

[Mickey Bradshaw]

I'm "shopping" for a combination machine as well. That said, I don't know if I have the stomach to go through all of the steps for importing a machine myself.

I'm curious about one thing. Why did you add the router table? Doesn't the shaper do everything that the router will do? Sorry if that's a dumb question but I've never worked with a shaper.

[Mark Bolton]

That saw looks like an amalgamation of many many,... many, imports out there. The slider is identical to what Laguna was bringing in on their 10 year old sliders. The bonus is if you dont count your time, youve got about 3K in the bank for replacement parts and fab'ing your own work arounds for issues that arise.

I agree with others that this is pretty interesting to see in action. Its always amazed me how places like Laguna and Grizzly can ship a machine and then just send endless quantities of repair and replacement parts ad nauseum until their customer finally "goes away". This pretty much clarifies a lot of that. What you paid for a single (or even if you got a buddy to jump off the cliff with you) is likely way way way more than they will ordering in quantity and they likely have miles of latitude with regards to the "manufacturer" shipping replacement parts that their customer isnt satisfied with for free. It will be interesting to see if you are able to get (or even bother to try) parts when your issues arise.

We had an issue with one of the above (not green) and they absolutely made things as right as they could to the tune of shipping an entire replacement machine (to the tune of 9K) and never picking up the original (which we have canibalized for parts) AND shipping us a small machine of our choice (to the tune pf another 2K) for our headache and patience with the original nightmare.

In the end if you honestly value your time at zero, and as you say, like to tinker/work on stuff, you may come out in the end with a fairly reasonable machine.

I applaud your effort but from the photos it may be a very rough slog.

I hope you keep up with the updates.

[Matt Schrum]

Mickey,
I popped the router table on there as I already had it and have an assortment of bits. The shaper is a router on steroids, but I have yet to build up my arsenal of heads/blades for it. On top of that, for smaller work, I'd feel much more comfortable using the router in the future-- for example, I think it'd be easier and safer for me to round over the edge of a 8" x 10" piece with a quarter round+bearing bit on the router than try to navigate that past the shaper. The immediate project I wanted the router in there for is dadoing some slots in the middle of some melamine sheets for a closet organizer. The machine does not accept a dado stack and I'd rather not have to run the router by hand along a temporary fence if I don't have to.

Mark,
I wouldn't say I value my time at $0, but I do enjoy tinkering and I am not working in a production environment, so I imagine I have more leeway than many people. That and there was no way, as a hobbyist, I could ever justify dropping $10K-20K on such a machine-- it was (and remains) out of the realm of possibility. After 2-3 days of getting everything all set up, it has run great with minimal tweaking-- and I've put a number of hours on it with a few different projects. I've replaced the main metric measure with imperial and that's the last big thing I did. I'm not sure what concerned you in the photos, but I think my "rough slog" is over. I'll try and get some more updates in and a short video tour in the next few weeks if I can. I haven't had to do any custom machining or fabbing of spare parts-- but at least I do have the ability (or the friends) to do that if something surprises me down the road.

[Mickey Bradshaw]

Matt, that all makes sense to me. It sounds like shaper blades can get pretty expensive too. I wish you luck with your new machine. It seems great!!

[Warren Lake]

a fresh router bit will scrape the wood away compared to a high speed steel cutter thats sharpe will make fluffy shavings leaving a finer finish than a new router bit can do

[Mark Bolton]

but I think my "rough slog" is over.

Thats a good place to be. The slog I meant would simply be any issues that rear their head over time and the machine settles in and wears (which hopefully you have very few). Its no uncommon in this class of machine and I think far more machines than people realize (even at the higher end) require some TLC and are not as plug and play as many would like them to be. Circuitry, motors, and holding tolerance, can get sketchy. Hopefully you got a winner.

[Tim Cardinal]

Thanks for posting this..I am thinking about doing this although I'm in Canada so our $$$ don't go as far. Do you have a contact person you can pass on? Also does it except a dato blade?

[Matt Schrum]

....Do you have a contact person you can pass on? Also does it except a dato blade?

Tim, I'll shoot you a message with the contact information I have. As far as a dado blade, it does not accept one. I've stared at it trying to think of a way to mount a dado, but short of making a new arbor for the blade to mount on, I don't see how I could make one work. I'd say the inability to mount a dado is the only significant shortcoming or complaint I have with the equipment. Else it's still working great and I'd purchase it all again in a heartbeat.

Edit: Tim, looks like they have locked out the ability to send private messages for non-paying members. If you send an email to my name (with no spaces, dashes, etc.) @gmail.com, I'll pass along the contact information I have. My apologies for the inconvenience!