Festool Domino Prices & Use

[John Halsted]

Ok, so I know this type of discussion has been had before, but I still have questions. I can see how useful the domino tool is (I'm looking at the XL since I mostly like large projects) and I'm pretty close to buying one. Then I started looking at the different cutter bits ($65ea) and the tenon stock, and the cost really started to go up.

Are the bits really going to last 5,000 - 14,000 cuts?

Is it just me or are the kits with various dominoes really expensive? $300 for the 12/14mm kit that I think contains 129 dominos and a 14mm bit. So a couple dollars per domino?

Do domino owners tend to jump all-in and get all the cutter and domino sizes available so that you're ready for anything? Or do you find that you can do everything with just one or two sizes?

Does it make sense to own both the big and small domino tool?

Is the bit/tool good enough to enlarge a mortise? It will cut a 14x26mm mortise, but let's say I want to make a 28x52mm mortise. Easily done by making 4 plunges, but will the bit wander into the previous cut and mess up the mortise size or break/bend the bit?

It is hard to believe that there aren't similar competing tools. Is it true that the only reason there aren't competing tools is Festool's patent?

[Kim Gibbens]

Buy the dominoes from amazon de. I just paid $152 for the large 12 & 14 mm assortment delivered, compared to $300 from the US.

[Peter Kelly]

CMT domino cutters can be purchased from Holbren for a fraction of the price Festool sells them: https://www.holbren.com/festool-domino-bits

Per above, Amazon.de is a great source for Dominoes (as well as other Festool consumables). Taylor also carries some generic beech ones for less: https://www.taytools.com/detail-point-tool

Expensive but the Domino XL is an amazing tool. Totally worth it imo.

[Dan Friedrichs]

Buy it and you can return it if you don't like it (Festool 30 day policy).

Buy the Domino kit from Amazon.de

I don't think you need to worry about replacing the cutters, often (certainly not often enough to consider amortizing the cost of cutters per mortise - they seem to stay quite sharp).

Yes, I think you could easily make larger mortises, but that defeats the purpose of using the Domino tenons. If you really only want large mortises (and not to use domino tenons), it may not be the best choice of tool.

Could be the patent, could also just be that this is a very precision tool and presumably it takes quite a bit of good engineering to get it to work right. There are few sanders as impressive as Festool sanders, but it's likely not IP preventing someone else from making one, it's capability.

[Jim Becker]

Another vote for sourcing the disposables from amazon.de. Significantly lower price even including shipping and about a week delivery via DHL.

I bought the 700XL and got the "kits" with the cutters and dominos. Unfortunately, at the time, I didn't know I could order the latter from over the big puddle. After I bought the Senica adapter so I could use the smaller 500 cutters on the 700XL, I bought that kit from Amazon.de. $193 shipped vs $300 domestic with free shipping.

[Patrick Kane]

Sheesh, where were you two a few months ago when i was buying dominoes and bits!?! Those are some incredible sources to bookmark. I needed a 14mm bit last minute to use their knockdown joinery on a commission, and i bought one for $69+/- at a local woodcraft. Holbren has that bit for $25.

I have experience with both models. I purchased the 500 used from a closing cabinet shop 2ish years ago. Maybe a bit more. Anyways, purchased it for $500ish and it came with an extra systainer of dominoes and all the cutters from 4-10 with a spare 6mm. Used that tool until the winter of this year. The 500 was a huge benefit to making projects faster. Did it solve every joinery need I had? No, i still did plenty of joints using the table saw, bandsaw, router, and hand tools. However, it made the unseen joinery of two morris chairs, two ottomans, a pair of night stands, a small garden gate, an end table, a coffee table, an armoire, and a built in closet 10-20x faster than conventional table saw/router/HCM mortise and tenon joinery. Where the tool really shocked me was in panel glueups. I make a fair number of island/counter tops, and this tool changed the way i work. I eventually sold my 37x2 drum sander, because i stopped using it to dress panels. A few dominoes across a joint will have it within 1/32"+/- across 8'+. 1 minute with a rotex or a few swipes with a hand plane and the panel joint is flat. Big time saver on my workflow and saved my cyclone filters from gallons of sanding flour. Where the 500 isnt so hot is the ergonomics of the handle and the size of the loose tenons. 8-10mm by 40-50mm is really pretty small for any medium to large project. I had to stack up a bunch of them for the morris chair joints, and generally found them borderline undersized compared to how i would have created an integral tenon in the same situation. This isnt to say a few 10mm tenons isnt a strong joint--it is--but it always left me wanting more. I sold the 500 this year and kept the df500 bits i had. I found a NIB 700 for a great price and jumped all over it. The 700 is just about everything i always wanted out of the 500. It is heavier, but the handle ergonomics are vastly superior. The 500 wears greatly on your grip strength over prolonged plunging sessions. The 700's grip transfers that strain to larger muscle groups like your bicep. In addition, i mostly use my hip or leg to plunge the machine. You cant do this with the 500, and it goes a long way towards your comfort if you are hammering out a bunch of joints. The DC placement on the right side of the handle sucks for right-handed users. I was constantly jamming my hand into the hose. Next, i think the weight helps stabilize the machine as you plunge. The 700 has a much better pin registration system than the two paddles on my 500. Finally, the 700 just plain does more. You get more height to the fence adjustment. It has much greater plunge depth. The stop design for plunge depth is much better. The 12-14mm dominoes are respectable enough for decent sized projects like a king size bed frame or a 10' farmhouse dining table, but with the seneca adapter you can still use a 5 or 6mm domino where needed. I never used a 4, so im not quite sure what i would build to utilize that size. The 700 feels exactly like a second generation design. The engineers had a chance to go back and redo things on the 500, and several years of feedback from the field shows through in the 700. I will add that the knockdown joinery system is a nice arrow to have in your quiver. I use the flat connectors on counters a lot, and im in the midst of using the 90° ones on a king size bed. Slick and quick system. It is pricey, so if Peter or Kim have less expensive sources, im all ears!

[Van Huskey]

Sheesh, where were you two a few months ago when i was buying dominoes and bits!?! Those are some incredible sources to bookmark. I needed a 14mm bit last minute to use their knockdown joinery on a commission, and i bought one for $69+/- at a local woodcraft. Holbren has that bit for $25.




I wrote a long Festool buying strategy thread about a year and a half ago but I didn't find it with a quick search.

Short version:

German and UK Amazon are your friend. Each has various things that will and won't ship to the US BUT that keeps changing. For a while the Domino assortments will ship to the US and then for a couple of weeks they won't you have to check back. Change the language to English on Amazon.de, there is a "button" just below and to the left of the yellow search button at the top of the page. If it does not ship to the US it will be in red text just below the price. Shipping is about as quick as UPS ground from the other side of the US. I haven't had a single issue with customs nor paid any duty. Buying more cuts down on shipping costs but they are VERY reasonable.

For tools keep up with sales and eBay bucks deals on eBay, on the 6th of this month eBay had a sitewide 20% off sale (they make up the difference to merchants) and I bought a TS75 for $100 off (was limited to $100 total) plus 1% back in eBay bucks and used $75 dollars in eBay bucks I won in some contest eBay had a week before, the saw was sold by Hartville who I usually buy from on eBay. I have a wall of Festool and systainers and have never paid retail for a new tool and only for accessories when I needed them quickly.

PS I realized the detailed post was probably on FOG not here, I think I just mentioned it in several threads here. Also when I need Dominoes I don't buy them separately, I buy an assortment from Germany then sell off the cutters on eBay and get 85% or so of my total cost back for the assortment (after fees) and the dominoes are cheaper than buying them and I get a free Systainer. I have 5 or 6 Systainers I have gotten this way.

[John Halsted]

It's amazing that amazon.de didn't show up in any of the other threads I read through. That makes things more approachable. I think I'm just going to jump in and order a 700 and the full gambit of bits and dominoes.

A question about ordering from amazon.de: when I went through checkout it wants to charge me about $50 for shipping for 3 sets of dominoes. It also strangely asked if I wanted to try out amazon prime, even though I was already logged in and already have prime. Guessing maybe there is a prime for amazon.de I clicked to try for 30 days but it didn't change the shipping rate at all. Am I missing something?

[Van Huskey]

RE Prime and shipping. It asks me the same thing about Prime (It hasn't in the past) even though I am logged in. That said shipping is NOT free to the US which is why I mentioned buying as much as possible at one time to lower shipping costs. The costs go down even though the Festool stuff (in Systainers) is shipped in separate boxes.

[John Halsted]

Ok, I got the Festool 574447 DF 700 XL EQ Plus Domino Joiner Set for $1310 shipped on ebay, and I got the 4-10mm, the 8/10mm, and the 12/14mm tenon sets in cases from amazon.de for $506 shipped. So now I'm in over $1800 to do what I was doing when I was 2 years old: putting the right size pegs in the right size holes.

I did not order the Seneca adapter yet because why is it so damn expensive?

[Dan Friedrichs]

Also not sure why the shipping isn't free. I guess I assume if you're using Amazon.com and have prime, you probably can't get free international shipping, so this is the same thing.

But: even for the cheapest shipping option, seems like they ship DHL overnight.

[Van Huskey]

I did not order the Seneca adapter yet because why is it so damn expensive?

In for a penny in for a pound! PLus what else are you going to do with all those little Dominos?

[Jim Morgan]

Agree with all the comments above. I've had a 700 XL for about a year - what a great tool!

One slight drawback to the 700 is that it won't cut at the center of 3/4" stock. Seneca makes a shim to correct for this, but like most of their products it is pricey. I made a shim from 1/4" phenolic that snaps onto the underside of the fence & allows for shallower cuts.

I don't know of any alternative to the Seneca adapter, which is probably why it is so expensive. Being able to use the smaller bits & dominos really increases the versatility of the tool, so I would consider it a must have.

[Victor Robinson]

Make sure you check the Domino assortment promptly when you receive it. Mine was missing the cutters. Amazon.de made it right but it was not quite as simple as dealing with Amazon US.

[John Halsted]

In for a penny in for a pound! PLus what else are you going to do with all those little Dominos?

I'm going to poke at them for a bit, then I'll put them away. Then after passing by and glaring at the box for the suitable number of days, I'll payout for the adapter.

Maybe I'll come up with a discount code or something to make myself feel better.

[Patrick Kane]

I swear I just saw some guy selling a brand new Seneca adapter. Maybe on FOG? Something like he had it, lost it, bought another and then found the original. Maybe make him an offer and save yourself a few bucks.

I checked out the .de stuff last night. shipping doubles as I added systainers, but still a good deal. Too bad I already have the 14mm cutter.

I think you will be happy with the purchase. If you build a decent amount, this tool speeds things up immensely. I’m under the gun to put together a king size bed frame while simultaneously working on some other paid projects. I wouldn’t even be close to where I am without the 700. Not to mention the knockdown connectors are fast and clean to install.

[Rod Sheridan]

One of my friends makes his own loose tenons in strips on the shaper then cuts them to length. It seems to work for him...........Rod.

[Jim Becker]

I did not order the Seneca adapter yet because why is it so damn expensive?

It's a precision machined and anodized product and there's a limited market for it. So they ask for a price that covers their cost and risk and provides a reasonable profit to offer it. The quality of the products that Seneca makes is very, very good and it's nice to be able to support a small business that is willing to cater to a unique market.

[Patrick Kane]

For $70 you are essentially replacing the need for a separate $900 tool.

[Jim Becker]

For $70 you are essentially replacing the need for a separate $900 tool.
Excellent point...

[Brad Shipton]

$70 for that adapter is a good deal. I have had smaller shafts than that machined and they cost $175-$300. The local shop rate here for the lathe is $130/hr. To mill that to precise diameter, thread, and create the flat will take a bit of time when all is said and done. That is not the type of thing that is done in a great volume.

I am surprised Festool allows .de or UK amazon sites to ship outside their regions. The Germans are very controlling of their areas, and it is easy to lose your right to sell their products if you ship outside your region. I would have never thought to look at those sites.

[Van Huskey]

I am surprised Festool allows .de or UK amazon sites to ship outside their regions. The Germans are very controlling of their areas, and it is easy to lose your right to sell their products if you ship outside your region. I would have never thought to look at those sites.

Festool is aware of it, I have talked about it on FOG for several years and others have as well. While I am not sure about the region thing Festool can NOT compel their dealers in most of Europe and the UK to sell at a fixed price this is why the prices are so much better.

Speaking of deals everyone should check their emails today from eBay, if you were picked they have a eBay bucks deal 10% if you use the app and 8% if you use the regular site. I would post a link but it is non-transferable. While the 10%/8% comes as eBay bucks you can use them just like "cash" on eBay, you get them all at the end of each earning period. It is a great way to save on never discounted items like Festool. BTW you need to be signed up for eBay bucks to get the offers, it is 1% all the time and then they have higher offers like this on a regular basis.

[Brad Shipton]

Van, I appreciate the info. I will think of this in the future for sure.

[Matt Day]

FYI Van posted an eBay link for 15% off up to $100, which can be used on Festool. These are the kind of things you need to look out for to get any kind of Festool discount.

[Van Huskey]

FYI Van posted an eBay link for 15% off up to $100, which can be used on Festool. These are the kind of things you need to look out for to get any kind of Festool discount.


That one ended last night. eBay is a solid way to save on Festool and several of the big name Festool dealers list items there, most of the Festool I have bought on eBay (new) has been from Hartville. You do have to know the going price for something, I was going to buy a Bosch 12v Flexi-Click yesterday but even with the discount the best price was just $2 cheaper than Amazon so I refrained.

[Jim Dwight]

You've already bought the small dominos but I've wondered if getting the 6mm cutter Seneca sells separately plus the cutters the XL uses would be enough. I haven't bit the bullet yet but am thinking I will before retiring. The other advantage of the 6mm XL cutter is it would cut deeper mortises. Another source of cheaper cutters is CMT. I have been happy with their router bits and saw blades.

[Jim Becker]

Seneca doesn't recommend their 6mm cutter for the 700XL for "regular use". It's basically a re-machined 700XL 8mm cutter and at that smaller diameter, it's not as strong as desired for regular use. They say to only employ it when you actually need the depth and to use the adapter with the 500 cutter for "regular" 6mm domino needs where the plunge is less deep. At first, this might seem like a money play, but it's likely that there is some reasonable truth to the concern about the longer, re-machined cutter.

[johnny means]

I bought the original Domino joiner years ago for a specific job. I had budgeted in almost a week just for cutting joinery. I was mind blown when every joint was milled and dry fitted in an afternoon. It literally paid for itself before I even really knew how to use it. Some may see the tool as sort of pricey, and the Dominos may be premium priced for the amount of material, but when your counting minutes as dollars, the ROI can be rather high.

[Nick Lazz]

Reviving old thread but right now there is a 15% discount code on eBay (use code PICKFAST) and you will save $100 on the tool...($100 is maximum savings.)

[Mark Blatter]

Looking on Ebay and I can buy one out of Italy for around $1100 plus shipping (the 700). Are the plugs and power set ups the same? Any suggestions on buying the tool from the EU via Ebay?

[Van Huskey]

Looking on Ebay and I can buy one out of Italy for around $1100 plus shipping (the 700). Are the plugs and power set ups the same? Any suggestions on buying the tool from the EU via Ebay?

The Italian electrical standard is 230v 50hz. The universal motors run fine on 240v 60hz but you need to change the plug. While there are people that import Festool tools from Europe they primarily do it with tools that are NAINA (not available in North America). The reason they don't do it for the ones available in the US, despite the cost savings, is that you give up the NA warranty AND depending on the parts needed they may not be available in the US, most see that as not worth the cost savings. I personally just stay vigilant for the eBay sales that I use to buy the tools and use Amazon et al to buy accessories and expendables from Europe.

[Jim Becker]

Mark, that Italian firm may not be able to ship the tool to you because Festool is pretty darn strict about that kind of thing. Buying accessories from "over the pond" is very doable, but the actual tools, they cut a retailer off at the knees when they find about about it.

[Jim Dwight]

Relative to wider slot mortises there is an interesting youtube where a guy shows how he uses the pins of the XL in several different ways to very quickly make wider mortises. He makes his own loose tenons to fit. Assuming I go forward as planned and buy the XL, that will be part of my approach. I am not OK with a 25mm wide tenon for all projects. But it seems pretty easy to make a wider one when that is what you want. The only somewhat tricky part is making the index lines in the right place. He was going to put extra lines on the clear window of the domino.

[Jacob Mac]

Relative to wider slot mortises there is an interesting youtube where a guy shows how he uses the pins of the XL in several different ways to very quickly make wider mortises. He makes his own loose tenons to fit. Assuming I go forward as planned and buy the XL, that will be part of my approach. I am not OK with a 25mm wide tenon for all projects. But it seems pretty easy to make a wider one when that is what you want. The only somewhat tricky part is making the index lines in the right place. He was going to put extra lines on the clear window of the domino.


Who did the video? I am interested in seeing it. Thanks

[Derek Cohen]

Looking on Ebay and I can buy one out of Italy for around $1100 plus shipping (the 700). Are the plugs and power set ups the same? Any suggestions on buying the tool from the EU via Ebay?

Hi Mark

I purchased from this seller (at least it sounds like my seller). The Domino 500 this way was $500 less than the retail price in Australia. The machine I received was likely aimed at the UK market as it had the UK power cord. One may either purchase a local Plug-It cord, or just change the plug. The UK and Oz have the same power criteria, and it sounds like Italy shares this as well - either that, or the tools he sells are intended for the UK rather than the Italian market. Check out the difference the Hz factor makes for 220/230v.

The main issue I had to deal with is the warranty. Was a discount of $500 worth foregoing it? All Festool tools are warranteed only for the country in which they are sold. There is no transfer. This information is available on the web. In the end I decided that Festool's reputation for reliability and build control was worth taking the risk, and I purchased the Domino. Touch wood (doing so quickly! :) ), although I have not used it much - it was mainly for a kitchen build - it has not skipped a beat in 2 or 3 years.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Scott Bernstein]

I don't know about the patent, but it is a great tool. I am just a hobbiest, with limited time, and it is a big time-saver. I have the larger one (purchased from ToolsForWorkingWood in Brooklyn) and purchased the small cutter adapter and shim plate from Seneca. Both work great, as advertised. The biggest time-saving aspect of the device is the lack of setup time. Just roughly line up the parts, make a pencil mark, bring the tool to the piece and you're pretty much done. I have other tools for joinery as well, including a hybrid pantorouter, Leigh FMT Pro, and a Router Boss. The Router Boss is great for Dovetails or finger joints, especially on larger pieces. It can do mortise & tenons, but it's a little akward. The FMT is great for integrated M&T joints, but since you have to arrange to the parts vertically under the jig one can't really do very big pieces like large door panels or long table aprons. The PantoRouter has a horizontal orientation so it can handle both very small or very long pieces. However, for very, very large and heavy pieces it gets a little challenging to man-handle those pieces and get everything line up properly. So I think for the biggest projects, the Domino is still probably easier. However, with the domino you are limited in terms of tenon size. If I want to do a single, very large tenon in a 4x4 post or something, the Domino can't do that. You could certainly do multiple dominos of course, but you are limited by the size of the largest domino they have available. With the Pantorouter, you are only limited by the maximum working template size.

[Jim Dwight]

Sorry, missed the question - half inch shy is the guy who makes a lot of domino youtubes including the one on wider mortises.

I bought a domino 700 and a bunch of CMT cutters for it. I got the Seneca adapter so I can use the 5mm and 6mm. I was cutting a wide mortise with the 14mm CMT cutter today and the tip broke off the cutter. I got it from Amazon so I am returning it and they are sending a replacement. Hopefully it's a one time issue. But making wider mortises is not very difficult. half inch uses the pins and can quickly cut the slots but it is easier, to me, to just move my initial cut lines over by half the width of the slot (14+13.5/2 or about 14mm for the mortises I am making). That lets you cut the ends of the mortise and you just make a bunch more cuts to finish the slot.

If you want to routinely do this and make up tenon stock in advance I think the half inch way is great. But I am normally trying to make a tenon to specific size and can take a few minutes to cut tenons to fit. I am very early in my usage but I cannot imagine that making a loose tenon will take longer than cutting a normal tenon.