How much table saw do I need... or want?

[Tim Einwalter]

I'm what I'd call a "prosumer" hobbiest. I self-perform a lot of very involved home projects and I can foresee myself stepping up my game and getting into light cabinet making. These projects are bordering on something a contractor would take on, but I'm only a homeowner. As an example of a project that I going, I attached a picture of our cabin that I'm building.

I currently have a Bosch 10" portable table saw. It's a good saw for what it is, but I've been exceeding it's capacity and would like to upgrade to a cabinet saw. I'm looking for a saw that will complement the Bosch and I'd like for it to have more capacity, a larger table, a better, longer fence and a really good square. I like old industrial machines because they meet all of these criteria, are affordable and will outlast me. Without question, I want it to be able to rip a rough sawn 4" timber. I'm assuming the saw would be 3 phase, but I don't have 3ph so I'd run it on a VFD. 5hp VFD's are getting expensive so I'd rather have a 3hp saw. 7.5hp and over is off the table - unless it was single phase.

I'm thinking I'd like a saw in the 12-14" range, but I've noticed that many of these saws are arbor saws and their cut capacity is quite poor. Especially when compared to the price, weight and difficult in moving the unit. For example, my Bosch has a max 45 depth of 2.5" and a max 90 depth of 3.125". A Northfield #4 with a 16" blade will cut 3" at a 45 and 4" at a 90. That's a huge blade for only 7/8" increase in depth. This is exceptionally disappointing because the big cabinet saw will have a large arbor and expensive blades. Plus the saw will be hard to move and will need other upgrades such as guards. I've checked other brands (Greenlee and Delta) and they're all arbors with a comparable depth of cut. At this point I get frustrated and give up. Are there any options for a quality, 40+ year old industrial belt driven cabinet saw?

Do I even need something this good or is a 10" unisaw good enough? There's a 12" uni close to me for $850 and it'll do everything that I need for a good price. It's just not what I want...

[David Kumm]

Look at a Delta 12/14 or Powermatic 72. They will have the DOC you want as they are belt driven. If you want a slider you could look at a used SCM SI 12. My Robinson ET/E slider has the 5" DOC with a direct drive but they are rare. Darcy here might have one for sale. I have a Rockwell 12 ( similar to DElta 12/14 )with a sliding table of sorts. It is 5 hp single phase with scoring so there are some old saws in single phase although most will be three phase. Jack Forsberg can put you into a 5 hp vfd with single phase input for < $400 so don't sweat the motor unless you don't have the circuit for the amperage needed. One of the reasons the old saws still are running and so smooth is the direct drive nature coupled with the very large bearings used that serve both the spindle and motor. There are other 12-14" saws that are belt driven. Most are newer than the old cast iron saws but I'd seriously look at a shorter stroke Euro machine. Choices range from 40-80" in stroke but the choices are fewer as the stroke gets shorter and generally the build goes down although the SI12 is close to the same structure as the larger blade SI16. Some had a 6 hp motor vs the normal 9. I think Darcy had one of those too. Dave

[Peter Christensen]

Re expensive VFD’s. You can get a good one for about $225 delivered to your door from China for a 5hp motor.

The few times I’ve needed to cut 3” I just turned the board over, went to the bandsaw, or pulled out the handsaw.

[Andrew Hughes]

A bandsaw is a better choice for ripping Rough timbers. Not saying I wouldn’t try it with a tablesaw if I had a chance :cool:

[Tim Einwalter]

A bandsaw is a better choice for ripping Rough timbers. Not saying I wouldn’t try it with a tablesaw if I had a chance :cool:

Already have a 18” band saw, but they make a poor choice for truing board edges. I’m buying rough sawn lumber from the historic society and it’s up to 4” thick. I then build rustic tables and benches with the planks and give them back to the society to sell.

[Peter Christensen]

Do you have a large(8”+) jointer? I would get that to clean up the sawn surface for glueing instead of the big saw. Got any pics you would be willing to share of the tables?

[Dave Cav]

Look at a Delta 12/14 or Powermatic 72.

This if you want a conventional cabinet saw. Lots of Deltas out there. The PMs aren't as common, but maybe a tiny bit better. I have a 12/14 and a 10" PM 65 and it covers my table sawing needs pretty well.

Otherwise you might want to consider a relatively current Euro slider. I personally wouldn't mess around with one of the old iron vintage sliders and as you have discovered, the big direct drive saws don't get you that much more capacity despite their enormous blades.

[Randy Heinemann]

I would agree that ripping rough sawn lumber on a table saw may not be the best idea. If that is your main use for a larger table saw maybe a larger band saw might be a safer idea. Possibly a track saw and band saw could suit your needs although there aren't any track saws I know that will cut through 4" lumber.

[lowell holmes]

Any self respecting home woodworker knows he needs a 10" table saw, a 10" radial arm saw, a skill saw, and a jig saw.:)

[Brian Nguyen]

Is it a Skil saw, or a skill saw? I've always assumed the former to lump all circular saws, like calling all copy/printing machines the "Xerox", but now I'm not sure.




Any self respecting home woodworker knows he needs a 10" table saw, a 10" radial arm saw, a skill saw, and a jig saw.:)

[lowell holmes]

I was lumping them together. My skil saws are Porter Cable .

[Stuart Kent]

I'm what I'd call a "prosumer" hobbiest. I self-perform a lot of very involved home projects and I can foresee myself stepping up my game and getting into light cabinet making. These projects are bordering on something a contractor would take on, but I'm only a homeowner. As an example of a project that I going, I attached a picture of our cabin that I'm building.

I currently have a Bosch 10" portable table saw. It's a good saw for what it is, but I've been exceeding it's capacity and would like to upgrade to a cabinet saw. I'm looking for a saw that will complement the Bosch and I'd like for it to have more capacity, a larger table, a better, longer fence and a really good square. I like old industrial machines because they meet all of these criteria, are affordable and will outlast me. Without question, I want it to be able to rip a rough sawn 4" timber. I'm assuming the saw would be 3 phase, but I don't have 3ph so I'd run it on a VFD. 5hp VFD's are getting expensive so I'd rather have a 3hp saw. 7.5hp and over is off the table - unless it was single phase.

I'm thinking I'd like a saw in the 12-14" range, but I've noticed that many of these saws are arbor saws and their cut capacity is quite poor. Especially when compared to the price, weight and difficult in moving the unit. For example, my Bosch has a max 45 depth of 2.5" and a max 90 depth of 3.125". A Northfield #4 with a 16" blade will cut 3" at a 45 and 4" at a 90. That's a huge blade for only 7/8" increase in depth. This is exceptionally disappointing because the big cabinet saw will have a large arbor and expensive blades. Plus the saw will be hard to move and will need other upgrades such as guards. I've checked other brands (Greenlee and Delta) and they're all arbors with a comparable depth of cut. At this point I get frustrated and give up. Are there any options for a quality, 40+ year old industrial belt driven cabinet saw?

Do I even need something this good or is a 10" unisaw good enough? There's a 12" uni close to me for $850 and it'll do everything that I need for a good price. It's just not what I want...

I have a 1920's era Yates American G89 that will do all you are asking. I'm not sure what the exact capacities are because I use it for straight line ripping. I'll sell it reasonably, so let's talk if you are interested PM me. I could use the space.

On another note, I use the Delta/Milwaukee/Rockwell 12/14 as my main saw and love it. I rarely need anything more than it does for me, and when I do I head over to the Yates.

[Tim Einwalter]

The 12-14 seems to be what I'm wanting. Nothing close to me at this time. Any other options? Sometimes, just having the search terms is 3/4 of the battle.

[Tim Einwalter]

Got any pics you would be willing to share of the tables?

They're not making Fine Woodworking any day, but they have this rustic look that seems to be pretty popular today. For the oak one, I learned my lesson on checking moisture content before starting. I think I paid $500 for roughly 3,000 bdft of oak planks from the historic society. Some of it is clear, but most has "character". They run a demonstration saw mill at their thresheree and this is the lumber that comes out of it.

[David Kumm]

Where are you located? While they are available for 1500 that won't usually find a good condition plug and play machine. More likely it will need some love. Dave

[Tim Einwalter]

Milwaukee, WI

[David Kumm]

I have a Rockwell 12 in Wis Rapids. Has scoring and a sliding table attachment. If you are interested, PM me. 5 hp single phase and 1 hp scoring. Dave

[Tim Einwalter]

Well, I pulled the trigger on a Rockwell Delta 12-14. Hopefully it's a good choice. Seller was asking $750 for the saw and I offered him $600 which he accepted. It'll cost me $275 to ship and should be here next week. The saw looks like new and it wasn't just a spray can rebuild. Either the saw was totally rebuilt with the tags being reinstalled after paint or it's the original paint.

The saw will be coming with the Jet Lock fence. I know they're well hated, but I don't know why. Why do people rave over the Besi vs what appears to be a comparable fence?

I might run the Jet for a while and then upgrade ite. The Very Super Cool Tools and Incra TS seem to be leaders. I'm liking the Incra because the repeatability will fit my needs perfectly. What is the forum's opinion of the two fences?

[David Kumm]

Tim, that is a great get. the fence on the saw is not a jet lock but the original and it is a very good design. Locks front and rear so works good with a feeder. Also has a micro adjust. the marks on the bar are a little hard to see but the fence is very precise and not one to swap out. Dave

PS. did you get the miter guage and is the saw single or three phase?

[Tim Einwalter]

Tim, that is a great get. the fence on the saw is not a jet lock but the original and it is a very good design. Locks front and rear so works good with a feeder. Also has a micro adjust. the marks on the bar are a little hard to see but the fence is very precise and not one to swap out. Dave

PS. did you get the miter guage and is the saw single or three phase?

Unfortunately, it did not come with a miter gauge. I'll have to see if it has 3/4" or 1" slots before I go shopping for one. It is a 3 phase saw and I'll run it off a VFD. It's a 3hp so it won't be too expensive. For the same money I could probably get a used 5hp single phase motor, but I'd rather have braking.

[David Kumm]

I've never seen a 12-14 with an original 3 hp motor so send me a pic of it sometime. They were usually 5 or 7.5 hp. The guage has a T slot and it is an odd dimension so you either need a machinist to make the bar or source an original guage. They show up on ebay or over at owwm periodically. Usually about 150. If you plan to use the braking on a vfd I'd buy one with an additional resistor in it. Stopping the blade very often will overpower the built in brake on a 3 hp vfd.

A 14" blade will clear but not retract below the table so a 12" for everyday and a 14" rip for when you need the DOC will be what you eventually want. The 3 hp may not handle a full doc but time will tell. Dave

[Tim Einwalter]

I've never seen a 12-14 with an original 3 hp motor so send me a pic of it sometime. They were usually 5 or 7.5 hp. Dave

Definitely a 3hp. Sadly, it's 208v only and I have 240v so it looks like I'll be shopping for a new motor. The VFD's I like are only available up to 3hp; after that they go to 3ph input. There are a bunch of 3hp 3ph motors local which are TEFC. Probably can get one for $150. But I'd have to add a $380 vfd. Otherwise I could go with a 5 or 7.5hp single phase motor, but then I don't get the VFD. I was hoping to use the VFD to help brake the saw, but that's the only advantage. Not sure if I'd have to replace the contactor or if I can reuse the 3ph one. Currently there are no big hp single phase motors listed locally.

Which way would you go?

[David Kumm]

Keep the motor and get a vfd from Jack Forsberg. The 208 will run on 240 but with a vfd you can adjust the voltage down to 208. Have Jack add a braking resistor ( or drives direct, Factorymation, or other vendors ) to give the vfd more ability to brake quickly and often. PM Jack from here. Dave

[Tim Einwalter]

Keep the motor and get a vfd from Jack Forsberg. The 208 will run on 240 but with a vfd you can adjust the voltage down to 208. Have Jack add a braking resistor ( or drives direct, Factorymation, or other vendors ) to give the vfd more ability to brake quickly and often. PM Jack from here. Dave

I'm pretty sure VFD's don't adjust voltage, just Hertz.

[David Kumm]

You can adjust voltage downward but not up. Depends on the vfd but mine all do. When I run a 208 motor I adjust to 208 at 60hz but increase the voltage to 240 when running at higher hz to maintain the ratio. Just tell the vendor what you need. Dave

[Tim Einwalter]

Who's VFD are you using?

[rudy de haas]

If you have an 18" bandsaw, perhaps all you need is a better blade and/or a set of tables for managing the flow of wood through the saw. There's a video at the top of this bulletin board that's worth seeing in that context.

I am not an expert by any means but what little experience I do have says that what you get when you upgrade your table saw is not necessarily more throughput, but greater precision. For example, I have a small bandsaw that won't do decent resawing so I split Jatoba on the table saw and (seldom) the jointer - cut the rough lumber edges straight; then cut it to a 6" width, then do the resaw via two 3.25"passes on the table saw. Most of the time this produces two equal boards that look ok on the sawn side. On the rare occassions I need greater width than 6", I joint the edges and put them back together. You can usually see the joint, but my wife can't so I'm ok with that...

[Charles Lent]

Buck/Boost transformers are not nearly as expensive as a new motor and they can reduce the 240 volt power that you have to 208 volts.. A 32 volt drop using these transformers is not a big deal at all. For a 240 volt Delta power source, only two transformers are needed. If from a Wye connected 3 phase power source you would need three transformers, but they are still cheaper than a new motor. The output from these transformers will be correct for your 208 vol three phase motor motor, A VFD, if used, should be installed after the Buck/Boost transformers.

Charley

[Tim Einwalter]

The Schneider website has a calculator to determine the model number of the buck transformer I would need. From there I was able to look up a transformer price on Grainger. It was a little over $300. Not too bad. However, the VFD will be $375. Now I'm into the motor controls for $675. Mind you, I only paid $600 for the saw. For $900 I can get a new 5hp motor from Grainger. For $350 I can find a used 1ph 5hp TEFC motor off craigslist. It just doesn't make sense to try the buck/VFD route when I can replace the motor and gain hp for less money.

[David Kumm]

Tim, you do not need a buck transformer and a vfd. Talk to a vfd vendor and explain what you want. VFDs can be programmed such that 208v is provided ( or the equivelant PWM ) at 60 hz. The voltage would increase if the motor is run faster than 60 hz and max out at 240v above 69hz but still run 208 at 60. A RPC would need a buck transformer but they would be small and could be sourced used but are not necessary for a vfd. Dave

[Tim Einwalter]

Well, this is turning into a total ClusterMess. The table saw that I bought came with a 3ph 3ph motor. Initially I thought I'd just hang a VFD on it. When I went to order the VFD I discovered, for my prefered brand, that units 3hp and over had a 3 phase input. I don't have 3 phase power. Searching other brands, the only one 3ph option was a Chinese VFD. That won't happen. Not wanting to do a rotary converter I decided to replace the motor. I found a nice TEFC 7.5hp motor on craigslist and bought it. Unfortunately, the motor isn't close to fitting. The housing would be too long for the end cover to fit and the capacitor housing is nowhere close to fitting. Damn.

I then went back to CL and bought really nice Baldor 5hp motor that was new in the crate. By now I was wise to frame sizes and I was careful to check all the clearances. This was the perfect motor, but it's speed was 1,725. Not a problem, I'll just change the pulley. I knew that with a larger pulley there could be a belt clearance issue, but I thought I could solve it. What I didn't realize was there would be a pulley issue as well.

It turns out the 12-14 saws use an A belt arbor pulley. All modern pulleys are now sold for a A-B belt. They do this by making the belt groove deeper so the smaller A belt sits in further. Well, an A-B sheave is 3.25" wide where as the A only sheave is 2.5" wide. With an A-B pulley the belts are spaced further apart. If I used the A-B pulley the outside belts would be misaligned by 3/8". I believe this misalignment would be too much for a belt that's only 12" long. It's not feasible to replace the arbor sheave because it would require the bearings to be relocated. The only option would be to go to a 3 belt A-B pulley, but I'd rather not go down that rabbit hole.

At this time I'm not sure what I'm going to do. I'm thinking I may need to pony up for a new $8-900 motor from Grainger and then reuse the stock pulley. Trying to source used stuff certainly isn't saving me any money.

[Van Huskey]

There are plenty of quality 3hp single phase input 3ph output VFDs... On the cheap end Teco (Westinghouse) FM50-203C for under $200.Obviously, you need to look at at the FLA of the motor vs VFD though.

[David Kumm]

Tim, not only are there single phase input vfds, many three phase input will operate with single phase and just hooking up two of the three input terminals. They need to be oversized in some instances but not all. Talk to the vfd guys or give jack Forsberg a call and he will sell you the vfd and talk you through the programming and adjust the voltage output. You should also be able to find a used double A sheave on ebay. My Rockwell has a four belt pulley which was standard on the saw. I think the 3 hp size had the two belts. Changing motors and pulleys is never as easy as you think and often the starter needs swapping too. It is unlikely a 5 hp single phase motor can use the same starter as a 3 hp three phase unless the original starter was not original and oversized. The 7.5 hp for sure would need new electrics. Verify the starter will work with the 5 hp and if so, look for a used pulley. If either is a problem, get the vfd. It is easier to deal with than you are making it. Dave

[Phillip Gregory]

Well, this is turning into a total ClusterMess. The table saw that I bought came with a 3ph 3ph motor. Initially I thought I'd just hang a VFD on it. When I went to order the VFD I discovered, for my prefered brand, that units 3hp and over had a 3 phase input. I don't have 3 phase power. Searching other brands, the only one 3ph option was a Chinese VFD. That won't happen. Not wanting to do a rotary converter I decided to replace the motor. I found a nice TEFC 7.5hp motor on craigslist and bought it. Unfortunately, the motor isn't close to fitting. The housing would be too long for the end cover to fit and the capacitor housing is nowhere close to fitting. Damn.

I then went back to CL and bought really nice Baldor 5hp motor that was new in the crate. By now I was wise to frame sizes and I was careful to check all the clearances. This was the perfect motor, but it's speed was 1,725. Not a problem, I'll just change the pulley. I knew that with a larger pulley there could be a belt clearance issue, but I thought I could solve it. What I didn't realize was there would be a pulley issue as well.

It turns out the 12-14 saws use an A belt arbor pulley. All modern pulleys are now sold for a A-B belt. They do this by making the belt groove deeper so the smaller A belt sits in further. Well, an A-B sheave is 3.25" wide where as the A only sheave is 2.5" wide. With an A-B pulley the belts are spaced further apart. If I used the A-B pulley the outside belts would be misaligned by 3/8". I believe this misalignment would be too much for a belt that's only 12" long. It's not feasible to replace the arbor sheave because it would require the bearings to be relocated. The only option would be to go to a 3 belt A-B pulley, but I'd rather not go down that rabbit hole.

At this time I'm not sure what I'm going to do. I'm thinking I may need to pony up for a new $8-900 motor from Grainger and then reuse the stock pulley. Trying to source used stuff certainly isn't saving me any money.

You got a heck of a deal, not a ClusterMess! A 12/14 in good condition is worth well over 6 bills. Getting the 3 hp 3 ph 208 volt motor to run on 240 volt single phase supply is simple and inexpensive.

Keep the stock motor and sheave, and get the single phase 240 volt input 3 hp TECO L510. I have one of these and it cost about $250, and it can down-regulate the 240 volt supply voltage to the correct 208 volts. The saw will work well and you will be very happy. Don't try to run a 1725 rpm motor on the saw, you will either end up with an enormous arbor sheave that doesn't fit, a tiny motor sheave that has excessive belt slip, or a too-low blade tip speed that gives disappointing performance.

[Matt Day]

If you’re not sure just ask, we enjoy helping. Could have saved you some grief. I just setup an fm-50 last week and have another one in the next week or two to install. Easy peasy.

[Tim Einwalter]

Yea, I already checked the starter and it was a 3hp so it had to be changed regardless. Initially I wasn't concerned because I just use them as contactors to start the vfd.

I've never had a 14" saw so I don't know motor hp vs performance. I know that all the modern 14" saws come with 7.5hp motors so it feels as if a 3hp would be a bit on the light side. If I went back to the vfd option, maybe I get a 5hp vfd and then run the 3hp motor for a while before upgrading. That said, there are several 5 and one 7.5hp 3ph motor option on ebay for very cheap and they have the correct rpm, frame and shaft size.

If anybody is in a market for a 5hp or a 7.5hp 1ph 1725 motor send me a pm.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Tim, I doubt if you'll have an issue with the 3 HP motor in a home shop.

I use a 3 phase motor on my bandmill, it's a 2 HP motor, I program the VFD to run it as a 3HP motor as it's hand fed, the load cycle is well within the motor rating...Rod.

[Dave Cav]

Tim,

I've had a 12/14 saw for nearly 10 years now. I bought it from a used machinery dealer, got it home, tore it down and totally rebuilt it. It came with a Baldor 208 volt, 3 phase, 5 HP motor. I have been running this saw successfully with a TECO 3 HP VFD with 240 volt single phase input with NO problems. Yes, a 5 HP motor with a 3 HP VFD; table saws very rarely pull full load amps, and not for very long if they do. I normally run a 12" rip blade but occasionally will run a big 14" Freud combo blade. If I were you, I'd put the original 3 HP motor back on, get a 3 HP TECO VFD from Factorymation,, throw away the motor starter (the VFD replaces the starter), hook the VFD up, and don't look back.

If you go over to OWWM you will find quite a few people have done exactly the same thing.

[Matt Mattingley]

I have one of Jack’s running my three phase 3 hp Lathe, One running my 5 hp air compressor with variable pressure sensors and speed regulation and one running my 5 hp Pk tablesaw.

I also have two rotary phase converter‘s to suit my other needs.

Air compressor is the biggest consumable in my shop. The air 80g compressor cost me about $200. I absolutely love the variable speed on it.

[Tim Einwalter]

Tim,

I've had a 12/14 saw for nearly 10 years now. I bought it from a used machinery dealer, got it home, tore it down and totally rebuilt it. It came with a Baldor 208 volt, 3 phase, 5 HP motor. I have been running this saw successfully with a TECO 3 HP VFD with 240 volt single phase input with NO problems. Yes, a 5 HP motor with a 3 HP VFD; table saws very rarely pull full load amps, and not for very long if they do. I normally run a 12" rip blade but occasionally will run a big 14" Freud combo blade. If I were you, I'd put the original 3 HP motor back on, get a 3 HP TECO VFD from Factorymation,, throw away the motor starter (the VFD replaces the starter), hook the VFD up, and don't look back.

If you go over to OWWM you will find quite a few people have done exactly the same thing.

I had toyed with the idea of using a 3hp vfd with a 5hp motor. I knew it had been done, but I couldn't find any references to it being used on a table saw. What I did discover is that a 3 phase input VFD can be used with single phase power. Apparently you need to derate the VFD to roughly 50%. A vendor mentioned this to me when I couldn't find the right unit on their website. I then got on ebay and found a 10hp VFD for a good price. It was my prefered brand too. I then called the mfr and confirmed that the VFD can be used on single phase power. I'll be limited to 14.5a with a 10hp VFD, but it will work. Currently have a bid on the VFD so now it's just a waiting game...

[Dave Cav]

One running my 5 hp air compressor with variable pressure sensors and speed regulation ... Air compressor is the biggest consumable in my shop. The air 80g compressor cost me about $200. I absolutely love the variable speed on it.

I got a similar deal on a 5 HP 80 gallon air compressor from a shop closing. It's a relatively late model from the Borg. The original owner fried the OEM single phase motor and his electrician put a 3 PH 5 HP motor on it since the shop had 3 phase. When I bought it because I was in a hurry I put an inexpensive single phase motor on it then put a larger drive pulley on the motor to get the operating amps right up to the upper end. Eventually I'll kill it, and then I'll put the 3 phase motor back on it with one of Jack's VFDs.

How did you set up your speed regulation?

[Martin Wasner]

How does varying the pump speed make sense on a piston compressor? Especially a small one?

Generally you don't see a vfd on a compressor until you get into the medium sized compressors on up. Like 50+ hp

[David Kumm]

I could see varying a pump on a Quincy QR type piston compressor. They were built to run from 600-1000rpm and Quincy supplied various motors and pulleys to accomplish that. Most pumps were made to run in a more narrow range or to run fast because they were too small to run slow. My QR 325 just keeps up with an air sander but if I were to do it over, I'd use a 370 with a 7.5 hp motor and dial it back when not sanding. Still not a very efficient way to deliver air but at least the slow put put sound of the old QR are kind of pleasant. Many new compressors are horrible on the ears or don't make much air. A few companies oversize their pumps and slow then down but the build of the pump is way lower than the Quincy. Dave

[Matt Mattingley]

I got a similar deal on a 5 HP 80 gallon air compressor from a shop closing. It's a relatively late model from the Borg. The original owner fried the OEM single phase motor and his electrician put a 3 PH 5 HP motor on it since the shop had 3 phase. When I bought it because I was in a hurry I put an inexpensive single phase motor on it then put a larger drive pulley on the motor to get the operating amps right up to the upper end. Eventually I'll kill it, and then I'll put the 3 phase motor back on it with one of Jack's VFDs.

How did you set up your speed regulation?

Jacks has 4 inputs that are designed in a magic square that can have upwards of 15 calls. This is under what is called simple PLC programming. The original motor was a 3450 RPM. I put on a 1720 RPM but used the same shive dia.( maybe 1/2” bigger). There is the main pressure control switch and then there is 3 different recovery recovery speeds and three more adjustable pressure switches. The four different pressure switches with the toggle switch determine the speed in hertz. I have it set up at 40 Hz, 60 Hz, 90 Hz, 120 Hz, this is the auto program on the toggle switch. When the first pressure switch clicks on at 145 psi the motor cycles at 40 Hz. If I continuously drain the tank using a pneumatic sander at 125 psi it goes up to 60 Hz. If I keep depletin, The pressure at 110 psi it goes up to 90 hurts and anything below 90 psi (which is my operational pressure of most of my pneumatic equipment) it goes up to 120 Hz. And everything is reversed as each pressure sensor is kicked off.

I did this because I work late at night in a bedroom community. I did not like using one blast of air through an air gun and the air compressor turning on fullbore. I did have to fill the oil reservoir a little higher to keep the splash efficient. Yes I know I’m over running the motor at 120 Hz. I only spent 40 bucks on the motor so I really don’t care if I blow it up.

At 40 Hz I am getting about 6 CFM at 62 dB. At 120 Hz I’m getting aboat 17 CFM at 86 dB measured at 8 feet.

390948

The low speed stops the upper two speed’s recovery(90 &120Hz). The high speed stops the lower two speeds on recovery(40 & 60Hz). The final pressure stop is 175 PSI always regardless of the recovery speed.

I have a three piston pump that is single stage not two stage.

I also built in a Air chiller (using a old dehumidifier that I bought at an auction for one dollar). Air travels through a b vent, then Through a bathtub and I empty the tank about once a month. These past two months I’ve been getting about 2 tablespoons of water. The rest is spit out on the floor at the beginning and end of each compressor start/stop.

[Martin Wasner]

Noise is certainly something I would not have put together.

[Tom Bender]

Converted my saw from 3600 rpm which translates to 100 mph tip speed to 1750 rpm with variable speed below that. It's a much nicer saw. Safer, quieter, makes bigger sawdust and doesn't blow it around the shop as much so dust collection works better. Cut quality is as good with less risk of burning. It cuts a little slower so it has cost me 3 or 4 minutes this year.

[Phillip Gregory]

Typically a higher tip speed yields a better quality cut. The regulatory bodies set a maximum tip speed of 19,000 fpm (217 mph) for any rotary device. I see best results in most cases with >10-12k fpm and often right near the maximum. Too low of a tip speed invites kickback, particularly with hand fed operations.

[Matt Mattingley]

Typically a higher tip speed yields a better quality cut. The regulatory bodies set a maximum tip speed of 19,000 fpm (217 mph) for any rotary device. I see best results in most cases with >10-12k fpm and often right near the maximum. Too low of a tip speed invites kickback, particularly with hand fed operations.

I would almost have to agree. But I’m wondering about Who are these regularory bodies that state 19,000 fpm are the maximum?

The three highest speed tools that that I use are, 16,964 , 16,362, 15,580. My tablesaw is the fastest of the three and my dust collector is the slowest of the three.

The middle of the three is is a high speed spindle 125,000 RPM which has a maximum capacity of half inch diamond bit.

[Phillip Gregory]

OSHA, for one.