Checkbook is open - need advice!

[Tom Majewski]

This is a great forum and I'm glad I stumbled onto it.

I’m trying to decide which laser to purchase. I’ve been talking to reps from Universal, Epilog, and Pinnacle. From all the input I get, it seems that a 35-40W laser will do. Basically, I’m a very artistic fellow (in my own mind and dreams-lol) who wants to combine my woodworking, metalworking, jewelry making, glass fusing, ceramics, and model making with some laser creations. It would also be great if people would beat a path to my door to buy this stuff and I can quit my day job, but…. who knows. I'd hate to buy this only for my personal entertainment.
Btw my day job is woodworking/ graphics/3D modeling/autocad design, and programming 4 axis cnc routers.
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I had tons of questions to ask, which brand, what power, what can I cut, what to charge… but from reading back to the first post here, most of my questions have been answered. THANKS!
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I guess the only question left, before I write a huge check, is this.
Is there anyone here who once, twice, or every day said – ya’know… this laser purchase was a bad idea. I’m not making what I thought I would be, people are not buying, I should sell this thing on ebay and put my money back in the bank.

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I have 4 garage bays of other tools and crafts collecter over the years, and although I sold some items before at craft fairs, (scroll saw work, toys, bookcases, tables) mostly I just build for my own enjoyment and to learn new things. Since this will be a big ticket item for me, I’d like it to *at least* pay for itself, and maybe pay me. So what I’m looking for I guess are people to tell me either – “Forget it. Unless you have business savy and already have a up and running shop, that laser is just gonna gather dust after the novelty wears off. Everyone has one and we’ve seen it all.” OR…. “Sure it’s a good idea. With an honest days work and some creativity, craftsmanship, and hustling you can make money with this.”
Are the hundreds of ideas and markets I think I can tap really there, or am I just a “technogeek/old world craftsman” who assumes everyone else thinks this is cool too.
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From my personal observations at craft shows, it seems everyone admires a work of art, but no one is buying it. Most want hand made items but want to pay walmart prices. Yet in my area there is no shortage of people making a living (whatever that may pay) doing a variety of crafts.
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So even though I’m probably going to buy it and jump in with both feet nomatterwhatusay, I really do want your advice, experience, and comments.
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Thanks,
Tom

[Nick Adams]

My personal view follows.

Unlees the laser can replace multiple other tools which will not be needed and can be sold, or the laser will expidite what you are creating quicker to see a return profit I don't belive a laser is a good return on investment.

In a large business it is a great tool. In a medium business it can expand and open many venues. In a small or starting business (which I was) It will do more then you are able to sell and untill you get either some high end jobs or large production jobs the return per customer or item, or per month on investment isnt that great.

Alot will disagree, and in the end it is up to you. Because of the direction my business has gone and the company I know help manage (small type merger of interests.) I would have been much better off with a 10 grand shopbot then a 50 grand laser (Epilog 32ex 75watt all the trimmings).

a shop bot + 40 grand to sustain business grow business and buy materials for jobs would have left ME in a better market posistion to buy the laser.

I never regret buying the laser. I only regret the direction I went about doing it and possibly the timeline that I went about it.

One year with the shopbot I could have bought a laser and still been 30 grand ahead roughly. However Now after 11 months I will need about 6 more months before I can feasibly look into a shopbot.



As I stated these are mearly my issues and problems. I love my laser. I use it nearly every day. I couldn't think of a more versitile tool for projects up to 32 x 20 inch. Sadly alot of my work is now commercial residential sign mesuring up to 10 x 20 feet. and the shopbot would make cutting sheets to size a snap.

[Joe Pelonio]

Tom,

I have a sign shop and with the laser was able to eliminate the "subbing out" of engraved signs, but that's still a small percentage of my work. The laser is paying for itself and profitable due to the large production jobs with a few really good customers, and doing cut acrylic lettering and logos. Those I both make and install and also sell a lot of it wholesale to other sign shops that do not have lasers or cnc routers. The other profitable work is doing jobs for manufacturers that need molds, templates, or prototypes, very profitable because of the precision required and often short deadlines. The artistic things you are talking about I do only when requested by a regular customer. I do some woodworking, also stained glass, and the laser allows more creativity in those areas. Some day when I become semi-retired or if the sign business slows down I can
look forward to doing more of it, but from what I've seen it would be hard to live on. At craft shows and fairs you are competing, and some of the scroll saw people will post signs that say "hand made-not laser". In your case if you combine it with your other crafts you might be able to do very well.

A few other things to consider - are you in a large metro area with many high-tech and industrial employers that you can market to? Is it an area with a lot of tourists that will pay for souveniers that you can make and sell to the local shops? Do you have a lot of residents with lots of money that like custom and unique gifts? Are there sign shops in your area that already are doing laser and/or router work that you would have to compete with? Oh, and I have 45 watts and would recommend that as a minimum to be able to cut 1/4" at a decent speed and sometimes 3/8".

[Tom Majewski]

Thanks for the advice guys.... you haven't scared me away yet.

Joe, I sent you a PM.

Take care,
Tom

[Patrick Cooley]

Tom,
Check your PM.
Thanks
Pat.

[Rodne Gold]

If you buy the laser as a "toy" and don't market it , it will not generate any income for you. In terms of what you do , a laser will be a very delectable addition and can open up many horizons. You are already proficient in tooling and design , so operating one of these will be a snap
It is very useful if combined with other machinery , like a computerised overhead router or 4 axis CnC machine

It will all depend on your imagination , marketing skills and commitiment as to how you fare.
Selling gee-gaws at craft fairs , is IMHO and as others say , a waste of time as you compete against a billion other vendors and a flood of cheap imports. If you are doing something of particualr artistic merit , yes , you might make money but you will be charging for the artistry and not the product itself and as you say , folk want craftsmanship at walmart prices.
I would not concentrate on "arty farty" type stuff and think you should use your technical skills. There are a huge amount of highly profitable pursuits in the industrial/industrial design direction , like point of sale , industrial marking , perspex fabrication , model making and so on. My Co has 3 lasers and 5 Cnc machines as well as digital printers , acid etching , sandblasting , thermal printers and so on and we develop and make a huge range of products with these , the biggest advantage in being able to use all these processes is the fact that one can manufacture just about ANYTHING in house. To give an example , I manufactured a new guage binacle for my corvette using billet aluminium for the housing , a digital printer to make white and black gauge faces (to match the autometer guages), a laser to cut the dial backings and the dial indicators as well as the cosmetic parts of it like the tinted covers and so on. I Acid etched the metal trim. I consider that piece *my* work of art , its industrial , but is still an aesthetic piece. I'm sure you will enjoy your new tool and find very creative ways to use it.