Recommendations for LED upgrade?

[Kelly Jones]

My shop is lit by a number of 8', 2-tube fluorescent fixtures with r17d tombstones. I've been gradually going through my stock of replacement bulbs, but now that they're gone, it's time to upgrade to LED. After some study, I definitely want to go with direct power (ballast bypass) bulbs. A few options for this:

1) Rewire to bypass the ballast, and buy 8' linear LED replacements with r17d contacts. There doesn't seem to be a broad selection of these, though.
2) Rewire, and upgrade the tombstones with the pin-type contacts that most (?) linear LEDs seem to use.
3) Convert the existing fixtures to accept 4, 4' lamps. Retrofit kits are available.
4) Replace the fixtures entirely, maybe with Costco's 4' fixtures.

Absent any other guidance, I'll probably go with whatever is least money and/or effort. Does anyone see any of these options as big mistakes, or other options I should consider?
Is there a reason to strongly prefer r17d contacts vs. the pin type, or the two-pin contacts that most 4' bulbs seem to use?
Is there a reason to strongly prefer 4' vs. 8' bulbs?

Thanks for any guidance,

Kelly

[Bill Dufour]

I think you will find two complete 4' fixtures will be cheaper then a new 8' or the parts to convert the old fixtures. I have heard the leds last forever but the built in power supplies fail. try to find fixtures with separate power supplies.
Bill D

[David L Morse]

I recently went through a similar upgrade. I converted 8' 2 tube fixtures to 4' 6 tube fixtures. The retrofit kit was inexpensive and simple to install.

There were several reasons for for that choice. As you pointed out, the selection of 8' tubes is very limited. The fixtures are controlled by 2 different switches which before gave me a choice of half or full brightness. Now I have 1/3, 2/3 and full. Most important though is the increased light level I get from 24' of tube per fixture instead of 16'.
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[Kelly Jones]

I have heard the leds last forever but the built in power supplies fail. try to find fixtures with separate power supplies.
Bill D

Thanks for the info! But, I'm having trouble finding any fixture that has a built-in supply, I thought the supply was always in the tubes. Can you point me to any examples?

[Greg R Bradley]

R17D Base will tend to mean you were using T12HO or VHO lamps. So you may be giving up a lot of light output with most LEDs. However, you may get more light directly below the fixture with the narrow light pattern of most LEDs. You can lose or gain but there can be a huge problem with glare. Best to approach this with care.

How high are these fixtures? Do they have reflectors? Are they used for general lighting? Simple drawing of shop and lighting?

I found it very simple to replace one row of 8' T12HO with LED. Converting the tombstones was not necessary as LEDs with R17D base is available. You do lose the ability to rotate the lamps to spread the narrow pattern out if you do that. Single pin tombstones are readily available and very cheap.

So anyway, the best choice of the change will really depend on how you are using the existing lighting and what you want to change.

I've replaced a lot of T12HO lamps with LED with some great success and great failure like when I tried to replace a single 8' T12HO with reflectors hung at 8' directly over a workbench. The user was so unhappy, we converted it right back. So you really need to define your use first.

[Kelly Jones]

I recently went through a similar upgrade. I converted 8' 2 tube fixtures to 4' 6 tube fixtures. The retrofit kit was inexpensive and simple to install.

There were several reasons for for that choice. As you pointed out, the selection of 8' tubes is very limited. The fixtures are controlled by 2 different switches which before gave me a choice of half or full brightness. Now I have 1/3, 2/3 and full. Most important though is the increased light level I get from 24' of tube per fixture instead of 16'.
387701387702

Thanks, your retrofit looks great! I hadn't seen the 2-to-6 kits.

With Costco selling 2, two-tube 4' fixtures for $40 right now, though, that seems to be less money (and probably less work) than buying retrofit kits and tubes. I'm not sure I need the light intensity settings that you have.

Kelly

[Bill Dufour]

I am no expert but I think I have seen separate power supply fixtures only for a single room light type residential fixture or high bay fixture. Not for a tube lights.
My experience buying cheap leds from the bay is 1/4-1/3 die fast the rest last a long time. Overall I think they end up being cheaper then the name brand.
Bil lD.

[Kelly Jones]

Greg,

Yes, the lamps I am using are T12 CW HO-O (not sure what the "-O" indicates). They are mounted on a 9' ceiling; I have four of these fixtures (8 tubes) spaced roughly evenly over a section of the shop that is about 24' X 30'. No reflectors. Used for general woodshop lighting. Yes, I've found LED tubes with R17d ends, but it seems in general that there is a greater selection and better prices on pin ends or 4' tubes. Maybe I'm not comparing watt-for-watt (or lumen-for-lumen)? I guess I need to look at the output of the tubes I'm replacing, and what the options for replacement provide.

Thanks in advance for any additional input or recommendations.

[Jerome Stanek]

I replaced all my lights with led's from Greenlight depot. The new ones were so much brighter that I had to space them out I ended up with 8 fixtures instead of 10 and it is still brighter then before.

[Greg R Bradley]

Greg,

Yes, the lamps I am using are T12 CW HO-O (not sure what the "-O" indicates). They are mounted on a 9' ceiling; I have four of these fixtures (8 tubes) spaced roughly evenly over a section of the shop that is about 24' X 30'. No reflectors. Used for general woodshop lighting. Yes, I've found LED tubes with R17d ends, but it seems in general that there is a greater selection and better prices on pin ends or 4' tubes. Maybe I'm not comparing watt-for-watt (or lumen-for-lumen)? I guess I need to look at the output of the tubes I'm replacing, and what the options for replacement provide.

Thanks in advance for any additional input or recommendations.
I'm pretty sure the O means rated for outdoor use. T12 HO are still very popular for outdoor signs due to even light output that fills the inside of the sign with light. So those are 110w and about 9000 lumens per bulb with 360 degree light output.

Mounted on a ceiling, you are spreading the light out all over the workshop. The ceiling is working out to be a large reflector. That is a big advantage when you only have 4 fixtures to cover 720 sq ft. Downside is short bulb life and a high electricity cost for the amount of light.

Any LED conversion will tend to give you more light directly under the lights but less in between. I think you will find any R12D ones are around 45w and 6600 lumens. Even frosted lenses will be too much at 9'. I have a row of 5 T12 HO that I converted to 8' frosted 36w 4500 lumen with pin ends. They are mounted at 9.5' in a row down a 5' wide warehouse aisle with parts bins on each side. Being able to rotate the bulbs a bit to spread the light out was important to it working. The measured power use is 60% less but the useful light is less. Fantastic directly under the lamps, of course.

I bought one of these to try adding some light to the side of a few fixtures to spread some light around and make the dark corners better: https://www.eledlights.com/led-lamps-by-type/magnetic-led-strip-lights/8ft-magnetic-linear-led-retrofit-kit-with-integrated-frosted-lens.html#.WyPC7nY0a-A

This is the high quality driver with remote lamps that were mentioned in a post above. I haven't tried them yet.

I'm afraid you may be wanting some low light output lights like the Costco ones mentioned - but more of them. 3 of them spaced out should get you even with each of your existing fixtures. So figure you would replace the 4 fixtures you have with 12 of the Costco fixtures. It's hard to give up the even light provided by fluorescents mounted directly on the ceiling.

[Kelly Jones]

Thanks Greg! I have one fixture that just went out, maybe I'll just zip out and get some costco replacements. When I see how those work I can use that to guide replacement of the rest of them.

[Charlie Hinton]

I installed the Costco fixtures and at this time I am well satisfied.
They are only about 1 year old so I cannot attest to their longevity.
They are very lightweight and inexpensive.
Since they are wired to plug in an outlet I left them like that and put outlets in the ceiling as required.
I think you can daisy chain three fixtures.
I figure if one fails and has to be replaced it will be real easy to do it.

[Peter Christensen]

I bought my led lights for the shop and garage direct from China and cut out the middle men. I'd do it again.

[Dave Cav]

I installed the Costco fixtures and at this time I am well satisfied.
They are only about 1 year old so I cannot attest to their longevity.
They are very lightweight and inexpensive.
Since they are wired to plug in an outlet I left them like that and put outlets in the ceiling as required.
I think you can daisy chain three fixtures.
I figure if one fails and has to be replaced it will be real easy to do it.

Same here. I put twelve of them in the shop last spring and so far they have been great. I just put ten in the garage, and have five more set aside for other locations. I was at Costco last week and they were still $20 a fixture.

[Kelly Jones]

I just looked at the Costco fixtures, and decided to pass on them. I assumed they typical fluorescent-type fixtures, with replaceable LED bulbs. They are indeed made to appear that way, but in fact the 'bulbs' are built in to the fixture, and do not appear to be removeable/replaceable at all. Though I may never need to replace the bulbs, I'd rather have something that gives me the choice of swapping out or replacing bulbs if possible. I may give retrofitting - or different fixtures - another look.

[Charlie Hinton]

I am interested to know what you end up with.
When I looked into converting the fixtures I had the cost was a lot higher.
Of course initial cost is, well initial cost.

[Curt Harms]

I found tombstones on Ebay that had a hole for a bolt or screw. I bought a bag - 12 I think - and retrofitted some fixtures that used integral lamp holders. The LED tubes are direct wire so simple to install. The tubes came with a sticker that said the fixture is 120 volt, it didn't have a ballast. That's a very good idea I think. I'm not sure what would happen if a 'conventional' fluorescent tube were inserted into a fixture that was 120 volt but I doubt it'd produce the desired result.

[David Ragan]

I like to save a little money sometimes when I can do it myself.

Like, replacing the ballasts on my flourescent shop lights, and other closet lights around the house.

I cant recall the exact issues right now, but this approach was way too much trouble.

So, after some research, it seemed like LED was a no-brainer.

WM had these 4' LED fixtures that were about $35 per

So i saved my lunch money and bought a bunch over time.

They should last forever, low energy requirement, and not a problem to switch on/off (unlike flourescent)

Now, in particular, a great feature is the ability to just take the LED strip out of the factory casing, and hook up in a series, for task lighting, like @ sharpening area:

387872

Of course, the electrical stuff was done under the direction of my generous electrician friend.

A lot of lumens in a small area is what I like-when I'm working, I do like lots of light.

(the LEDs are still encased in a barrier housing so any water splash is not a problem).

[Kelly Jones]

Well, that's helpful. I hadn't thought of just screwing tombstones down. It looks as though many of the tombstones I had been looking at actually have a provision for a screw or captured nut, like this:
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So, I think that's what I'll do: buy some screw-down tombstones (instead of the expensive 'retrofit' kits which include new bases to allow slide-in tombstones), and convert from 8' to 4'.

[Jack Frederick]

In my 30x34x10 shop I installed the 16 of the 4' Costco fixtures and switched them in quadrants. They are 3+ years old and have been excellent.

[Kelly Jones]

So, I bought these tombstones:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00S64ACCI/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
at a cost of 0.45 each, and these lamps:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00O1CJC0C/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
at a cost of $11.67 per tube (this price included 1 free tombstone per tube). So, a total cost of ~ $48.50 to replace a dual, 8-ft fixture ($24.25 per 4-ft dual lamp fixture).

At the ends of the fixture, the tombstones just slid into the existing slots. For the middle of the fixture, I had to drill some holes in the fixture and used some self-threading screws (sheet metal screws would have worked) to secure the tombstones. Ripped out the ballast, and ran the wiring to the center set of tombstones. Probably took 30 minutes for the whole job (for one fixture).

Going by the specs, I replaced 2 8ft HO fluorescents rated at about 110W and 8600 lumens each (220W and 15200 lumens total) with 4 4ft LEDS rated at 18W and 2120 lumens each (72W and 8249 lumens total). You can't compare the lumens directly, because the fluorescents emit at 360degrees, and some of that was wasted on the ceiling or fixture (no reflector), whereas the LEDs emit all of their light downward. The LEDs have a frosted cover, so that the light is spread out somewhat uniformly in the downward direction (avoiding the issue that .

Subjectively, it feels like about the same amount of light, but it's pretty hard to judge. I definitely don't feel as though I need to rush out and buy another light. I could always add a couple lamps to the existing fixture, since I have the tombstones. I'm happy with the replacement - the cost was low, the replacement was simple, I have a wide selection of lamps to choose from now, and I've cut my power usage down to less than a third of what it was.

Having the tombstones gives me other options, as well - I've seen that some people just screw them directly into the ceiling, any place they want bulbs. Probably not UL approved, but it is simple.

Before and after pics shown below, but no attempt was made to adjust for exposure, etc. so don't draw any conclusions about brightness from these.

Thanks to all who provided input.
Before, After

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[Roger Feeley]

when I was building my new basement shop, I had something of a windfall and bought 20 4' lights from Home Depot. The shop is much brighter than my old one which was lit kind of ad-hoc with 20 4' flourescent fixtures. One nice feature is that the current draw is so low that they are all on a single switch. I had my old lights on 3 circuits.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Commercial-Electric-4-ft-Bright-White-Integrated-LED-Linkable-Shop-Light-Fixture-54103161/205331022

I had about a 20% failure rate in the first month or two and HD cheerfully replaced them. Since that time, I haven't had a single failure.

[Jerome Stanek]

I just got an email from Rural King that has LED for a good price. You can even order them on line