New machine to me, "inexpensive" 4 sided planer/moulder

[Van Huskey]

I certainly have been aware of the industrial sized 2 and 4 sided planers but have never seen a smaller 4 sided planer/moulder.

Logosol a Swedish company makes a really neat small 4 sided planer/moulder. While not exactly cheap the prices are much cheaper than I would have expected. (Que Darcy to come in and point out he bought a Stetson-Ross for $300, 4 tanks of gas and breakfast at Denny's)

It seems they also make and brand them for Woodmizer as well if you want an orange one.



http://www.logosol.us/planers/ph260/

https://woodmizer.com/us/MP260-Planer-Moulder

387616

It does 2 and 4 sided @ ~10" and single sided at ~16".

[Martin Wasner]

I never got a price on one, but I did look at their website a while ago. It seems really lightly built.

I was hunting for a Weinig S4S and I couldn't find one for what I was willing to spend. I also thought that machine was a little lightly built. I ended up buying a Leadermac five head moulder for less than the S4S machines I was looking at. I paid $12,500, and it's in good shape. The two things that pushed me to a moulder was heavier build, (especially the spindles), and a much longer straightening table. If you're looking at only new, that Leadermac is $55k new as a reference.

[Patrick Kane]

Out of curiosity, at what point do these machines get over the cost/benefit hump? I imagine some of the used ones like Martin describes could very easily be justified for a 1-2 man shop. Not that ive seriously considered buying a moulder, but in my side hustle i spend 60% of my time milling lumber. Generally, how many bdft are you processing a year to upgrade to a moulder?

Once again, dont know much about these machines, but are moulders used more to S4S lumber or to create moulding? Ive noticed they are typically 8" width, which seems narrow for milling lumber.

[joe milana]

That Logosol machine is rated at 1200lf/hr, but at what duty cycle. I suspect it would be a pile of parts in no time. A used well maintained S4S machine is a nice addition to door & window shops. Not so much for milling rough lumber.

[Mark Bolton]

There is a local shop near me that is nearly shut down that has one and they love it. Its no massive production machine but I have a PH360 on the list for the shop here when the time is right. It would be a perfect machine for us where we could easily roll it out when needed and put it in a corner when not needed.

My shop does not need daily production molding. We may run a large job here, then not for a while. Be burried in kitchens, then not for a while. A machine like this would work perfectly in a dynamic situation like that. The big advantage to me would be the ability to move the machine near a door or outside wall and run it through a fan and just blow the chips straight outside into a trailer eliminating the dust collector all together.

I have kept my eyes peeled for a used PH360 for years and never find them.

Nice catch.

[David Kumm]

Van, did you actually buy one or just see it? I've always thought their vertical- horizontal shaper to be an interesting machine. Don't know how it holds settings but woould be handy if it does. Dave

[Van Huskey]

Van, did you actually buy one or just see it? I've always thought their vertical- horizontal shaper to be an interesting machine. Don't know how it holds settings but woould be handy if it does. Dave

I realized coming back today my title was confusing and I didn't clear it up in the body of the text, I indeed just saw it. I was looking at bandmills on the Woodmizer site and drifted over to see this. I never knew this class of machine existed, then again I rarely ever look at the S2S and S4S machines in listings. It just seemed interesting.

[Martin Wasner]

There is a local shop near me that is nearly shut down that has one and they love it. Its no massive production machine but I have a PH360 on the list for the shop here when the time is right. It would be a perfect machine for us where we could easily roll it out when needed and put it in a corner when not needed.

My shop does not need daily production molding. We may run a large job here, then not for a while. Be burried in kitchens, then not for a while. A machine like this would work perfectly in a dynamic situation like that. The big advantage to me would be the ability to move the machine near a door or outside wall and run it through a fan and just blow the chips straight outside into a trailer eliminating the dust collector all together.

I have kept my eyes peeled for a used PH360 for years and never find them.

Nice catch.

I bought my moulder just for S4S and door sticking. We might make mouldings at some point, but it's not worth my time at the moment. I just don't want to have to make two passes on stuff anymore.

[Mark Bolton]

I bought my moulder just for S4S and door sticking. We might make mouldings at some point, but it's not worth my time at the moment. I just don't want to have to make two passes on stuff anymore.

No doubt. In your situation it makes total sense, you have the room, and the growth, to justify the investment of time and money. Our production is so varied I wouldnt want to be re-tooling and setting up a large molder nor do I have room/desire/energy/long term projection, or ancillary support equipment, to justify it. If the right job came along or I found one used in great shape I'd snatch up a 260 or preferably a 360 in a flash. It would be a welcome addition to what we frequently do.

[Adam Bullington]

I actually have the Logosol PH360 in my shop and I consistantly run it at 30-50' a min depending on the cut depth and width. I s2s top and bottom from rough down to like 7/8 thick and then run it again to do flooring. its not a heavy weinig but if you keep the dept of cut to only what is necessary to make a complete profile it will run all day long. good chip extraction is a must.

[Adam Bullington]

I actually have the Logosol PH360 in my shop and I consistently run it at 30-50' a min depending on the cut depth and width. I s2s top and bottom from rough down to like 7/8 thick and then run it again to do flooring. its not a heavy weinig but if you keep the dept of cut to only what is necessary to make a complete profile it will run all day long. good chip extraction is a must.

[Doug Dawson]

I actually have the Logosol PH360 in my shop and I consistently run it at 30-50' a min depending on the cut depth and width. I s2s top and bottom from rough down to like 7/8 thick and then run it again to do flooring. its not a heavy weinig but if you keep the dept of cut to only what is necessary to make a complete profile it will run all day long. good chip extraction is a must.

What volume of chip extraction are we talking about here? I wonder if any "ordinary" cabinet shop "dust collector" would be capable of handling something like that, to HEPA standards. Whoa nelly.

[Adam Bullington]

Its currently a 5.5 hp 230v 3phase ( I run a converter ) 18" impeller, 10" inlet 10" outlet from logosol "its their recommended system for the 360" 2400CFM that blows via duct work out into a dump trailer. It works good but still requires some manual cleanup of chips after long runs. no fines are left in the machine just heavier chips that don't make it to the dust extraction holes. I would imagine any decent sized "shop sized" extractor would handle it but not if your filling bags...i started like that with the logosol ph260 and would fill a 55 gallon drum in about 20 min so unless your running it outside or into a big container somewhere it will bury you in chips.....FYI great machine though "for my needs"

[Darcy Warner]

I have talked several guys out of these and into a nice Weinig p22 for less money tooled up. The p22 isn't a huge machine either.

[Mark Bolton]

Even the P22 is still a massive machine in comparison. Of course a much heavier and production based machine but its in no way as mobile or compact. As with anything its what the individual shop needs are. I would never allocate the space to a dedicated machine of that size for the times that we would run four sided and as Adam mentions, with any molder (or heck even a planer or W&H) you'd better be setup and ready to process massive amounts of chips.

[Adam Bullington]

What type of power requirements does the weinig p22 require? just curious thanks it uses the corrugated heads?

[Darcy Warner]

P22 is not massive, it's like 5400 pounds and one of the most compact moulders until you get to the small unimats.

It needs more power than the logosol for sure. Can't remember off the top of my head.

I would rather s4s on a small 5 head moulder than one of those logosols.

Yes corrugated knives.

[Adam Bullington]

387717I could probably justify the larger machine like the P22 I just don't have the power to run it in my shop and that's why I went with the logosol 360. Its big enough for my needs but doesn't make the neighbors lights dim when I turn it on lol. I went from rough lumber to flooring for this floor 2300 sq ft in 5" plank qtr sawn white oak rustic grade in a little under 5 days with my 360. I installed and finished it too

[Darcy Warner]

I have run a p22 on a 30hp rpc.

I have been dealing with 7 head wadkin's and 6 head Hydromats for the last couple years, I forgot how little They were compared to one of those.

[Mark Bolton]

I would rather s4s on a small 5 head moulder than one of those logosols

Who wouldnt? And then when your S4S on the P22, you'd want the bigger, faster, and then with that, youd want the bigger faster, until you realize your running a machine you cant make any money with in your area. As I said, in my area, and for the work I have done here for 20 years, it would be a fools errand to lock up that much floor space. In a different market, sure, but just because "I would rather" do something, doesnt make it economically viable. Business 101.

[Darcy Warner]

Who wouldnt? And then when your S4S on the P22, you'd want the bigger, faster, and then with that, youd want the bigger faster, until you realize your running a machine you cant make any money with in your area. As I said, in my area, and for the work I have done here for 20 years, it would be a fools errand to lock up that much floor space. In a different market, sure, but just because "I would rather" do something, doesnt make it economically viable. Business 101.

I don't agree. The faster I can get the work done, the faster I can set the machine up, the faster I am done and paid.

This sounds typical of lots of millshops I go into. They wonder why they can't get the bigger more profitable jobs. Well they can't run enough material to keep up with delivery schedules.

[Mark Bolton]

This sounds typical of lots of millshops I go into. They wonder why they can't get the bigger more profitable jobs. Well they can't run enough material to keep up with delivery schedules.

Of course in a market where there are bigger, more profitable jobs to be gotten. Its all about the market (or moving to one lol). This area has zero demand for much of that material hence there are no large shops (well one) in perhaps a 150 mile radius. Now if you want to setup a shop and try to feed Lowes and Home Depot, and possibly pickup the 2-3 remaining privately own yards left in the area, sure, you can compete with the one thats doing that now and was just sold.

Im not being pessimistic. I have lived and operated as a GC in this my area for 20 years and actually enjoy the lower pace and was blessed with some very nice custom work. The demand (read $$) simply isnt here. If it were I would gladly be building a new building and forging ahead with wreckless abandon.

In my market when you do an honest accounting for the dedicated floor space and ancillary equipment a large molder would consume, and the manpower to run it, if you think it'd be making you money you'll be following the fuzzy math.

[Darcy Warner]

I have created a market 4 or 5 different times over with different products, services, etc. each time.

I set a friend up with a nicely tooled p22, middle of nowhere MO, already killing it making cabinet parts, s4s, flooring and supplying builders with trim packages.

He made his market.

[Warren Lake]

people can create markets but still your setting has more control of that than you do.

Do you think Magnus Walker could do what he did if he stayed in England.

[Mark Bolton]

Do you think Magnus Walker could do what he did if he stayed in England.

Agreed. As I say, its not pessimism. Im running a full time shop making what the local market wants as well as offering up "the rest". But the market is what it is. There is no one here to supply "cabinet parts" to. There is only one other shop that is not breaking any records. Two other shops closed up last year. I have a flooring installer a mile away from my shop running two locations and install crews that can buy factory finished flooring for cheaper than I can buy rough sawn lumber for. And he has "character grade" with factory applied UV finish that is 10X any finish you can apply in the field for less than that. Product lines that offer random widths, on and on. I wouldnt even run my own flooring if I could unless it was something completely odd and unavailable or I was hell bent on the trees coming off my own property or something. Trim packages we compete easily on regularly as it is but they are high custom projects that have dozens of different small run profiles on a single job and are rare.

Several individuals have tried to make a go with product that would most definitely sell in other markets. Your not going to sell 2800 pinterest river tables here, or a lot of custom furniture, or super high end cabs. Everyone wants one until they see the $300 worth of epoxy and dye, a pair of live edge slabs that they see in their firewood pile every winter to the tune of a few hundred $$ more, and forget about the hourly shop rate. Not gonna happen here. Its either adapt or move. There are the occasionals but its far from a weekly occurrence.

Most of the large builders in the area run their own shops if they do high custom work and anything non-custom is coming from the home center. And if your competing in that market your not making any money (hence fuzzy math).

[Bradley Gray]

knew a guy here in So. Ohio that had a good sized sawmill/kiln operation mostly dealing with white oak for export. He tried adding a big moulder and support equipment intending to wholesale hardwood mouldings. His "wholesale" orders were mostly pass through special orders from lumber yards. The venture nearly sank his whole operation.

[Martin Wasner]

Yes corrugated knives.

But..... if you're looking for a flat cut, or just a back cut you're better off going with a tersa style head I think. No sharpening or calibrating for a new grind. Just swap knives. They aren't cheap, but they aren't crazy expensive either.

I know Darcy knows this, but uses moulder heads can be bought by the pallet are basically scrap value

[Van Huskey]

Do you think Magnus Walker could do what he did if he stayed in England.

Are we talking clothes or Porsches? I guess it doesn't really matter though.

As an aside his "277" 911 is one of the most droolworthy P-cars in the world to a weekend track rat like me. I used to see him a lot at track events but fame seems to have cut into his recreation time. He is a darn good driver and he could walk away from me even with far less horsepower and grip. Heck of a nice guy but a bit...odd... or maybe just English.

[Darcy Warner]

But..... if you're looking for a flat cut, or just a back cut you're better off going with a tersa style head I think. No sharpening or calibrating for a new grind. Just swap knives. They aren't cheap, but they aren't crazy expensive either.

I know Darcy knows this, but uses moulder heads can be bought by the pallet are basically scrap value

First bottom and first inside really benefit from an insert head, they do the bulk of the work.

For the rest I still prefer corrugated knives and grinding in the head, it helps when you have profile grinders.

I could have bought 3 p22's or two Hydromats for the price of the logosol. The last Hydromat with knives, heads, grinder, spare parts was less than a minimax combo machine. It was 175k new though.

[Mark Bolton]

knew a guy here in So. Ohio that had a good sized sawmill/kiln operation mostly dealing with white oak for export. He tried adding a big moulder and support equipment intending to wholesale hardwood mouldings. His "wholesale" orders were mostly pass through special orders from lumber yards. The venture nearly sank his whole operation.

I know of several similar scenarios myself. If a large operation starts running some material whether it be shiplap, t&g, or profiles, its usually because the owner has a personal need and while they are running theirs they will run some for sale. As soon as they get what they need, they look at the numbers, and the equipment is idled. It'd be a no brainer for a large operation to toss in a 5K molder to run a batch of material for themselves. Heck, you cant even hardly buy T&G or shiplap in our area. And there is a reason for it. When you add up the costs of the material, the equipment, and the other expenses to run, no one is going to pay for it. The only way your going to create your market is to sell the better product for the same price or cheaper than the low grade thats sold andbought every day. Half as thick, junk, same price. At that point your working for pennies on the hour.

You cant force market creation. You have to fill a need. Unfortunately the majorities needs mainly revolve around lower price with higher quality.

[Darcy Warner]

people can create markets but still your setting has more control of that than you do.

Do you think Magnus Walker could do what he did if he stayed in England.

I ship stuff everywhere. I can do what I do anywhere, no doubt in my mind.

[Martin Wasner]

Do you think Magnus Walker could do what he did if he stayed in England.

He'd be closer to Germany?

[Darcy Warner]

You cant force market creation. You have to fill a need. Unfortunately the majorities needs mainly revolve around lower price with higher quality.

That's why so many people would be better off having a job instead of owning a job.

What's the point? I don't bust my ass to make what I could working for someone.

People under value their time.

I live in NE IN, we ain't exactly the Hamptons here, but I have a skill, a product that is valuable, and I found the people willing to pay what it's worth.

No race to the bottom for me.

[Warren Lake]

Not sure what good that would do, Been to Germany and most the people I know that came from there never wanted to go back to live. Nothing wrong they just found more opportunity here. The Old guy went back to visit his shop where he apprenticed and some friends, owner wanted him to stay likely leave him the shop but he said no.

point is for Magnus there was nothing where he was, he left to where the world is your oyster. Have friends and know musicians that have done the same. All the positive thought and granola stuff would not allow him to do what he did in the wrong setting where he was.

[Mark Bolton]

That's why so many people would be better off having a job instead of owning a job.

What's the point? I don't bust my ass to make what I could working for someone.

People under value their time.

I live in NE IN, we ain't exactly the Hamptons here, but I have a skill, a product that is valuable, and I found the people willing to pay what it's worth.

No race to the bottom for me.

I've owned my job for 30 years with zero outside income. Never filled out a job application or printed a business card until a year or so ago (business card). With honest accounting you may not be in any form of a race and may well already be at the bottom.

But enjoying what one does smooths a lot of hills and valleys.

None the less, pissing in a fan trying to make people buy what you "want" to make, or running a machine youd "rather run" and thinking they will buy is just bad business. This ain't field of dreams no matter how bad we want it to be true. Clearly evaluating your market is business plan 101. Chucking a bunch of money at making boards, s4s and cabinet parts, that there is no market for, because it's a machine "youd rather run" is a fools errand.

[Bradley Gray]

I have run a small woodworking business in a rural area for over 40 years. I have survived by doing a wide scope of work over a 100 mile radius. Mark is on the money about not being able to control what folks are willing to pay for - there's work around, but not the kind of jobs that justify machinery that can run 50+ fpm of molding. I have 15 or so vintage industrial machines, all paid for, and I sleep pretty well.

[Martin Wasner]

The one thing I wish I would've figured out sooner was investing in the job that I own. I always dumped money back in, but the last four or five years I've really hit it hard buying equipment. I'm semi smart, I'm really lucky, and I'll grind whatever grist the mill requires to get jobs out the door. (I just punched out for the third time this week working more than a 14 hour day) I wouldn't be able to do the jobs that I do without the equipment though. With just two of us, we shipped out just shy of $100k in cabinets in the last two months. It was a grind, but without the tools it wouldn't be possible.

I've enjoyed building my business far more than any cabinet I've ever built. Woodworking is child's play. Business is exciting, challenging, and risky.

The point I guess I'm trying to make is every dollar I dump into this place, it seems like I get so much back, that it's tough to quantify. I just spent $23k on a used door clamp. Why? Because now it's faster, better, and easier. Faster and better is great, but easier is where you make money. Less rejects, more consistent flow, and being able to draw from a lower paid work force is huge. Used moulders in good condition can be had for next to nothing. For my means a bare five head that will cost me way less than $20k to run S4S and door sticking is a no brainer. A good shaper with tooling is basically $15k anyways. If I want to run mouldings in the future as another revenue stream, (which is in the long term plan), it'll cost me probably another $10k, ($30k if I want to cut/grind my own knives), but it opens a lot of doors. Plus the door clamp I just bought is really for mitred doors, so now I can do that too. Not real efficiently at present, but it's another feather in the cap that might make the difference between getting a job with good margins.

It's tough to justify some things though, but a few good decisions can really pad the crappy ones well. Good investments pay out for essentially ever, bad ones if recognized early on are short lived. I can't tell you what to spend money on, but I can say I would be light years ahead of where I am now if I would've made a few more sacrifices and invested more aggressively and sooner in making things more efficient. It's a lot more fun pounding things out the door than struggling with inferior equipment.


As far as how much lumber do you have to be milling to justify the cost? I can't say for sure how many bd/ft a year we process. I'm guessing we do about 15-20k, which isn't that much.

[Darcy Warner]

I've owned my job for 30 years with zero outside income. Never filled out a job application or printed a business card until a year or so ago (business card). With honest accounting you may not be in any form of a race and may well already be at the bottom.

But enjoying what one does smooths a lot of hills and valleys.

None the less, pissing in a fan trying to make people buy what you "want" to make, or running a machine youd "rather run" and thinking they will buy is just bad business. This ain't field of dreams no matter how bad we want it to be true. Clearly evaluating your market is business plan 101. Chucking a bunch of money at making boards, s4s and cabinet parts, that there is no market for, because it's a machine "youd rather run" is a fools errand.

I made a market for myself doing high end remodels, decided to switch it up for a couple years and just do steel framed hardwood decks, 50k+ jobs, then decided that interior finish work and shop work was better, moved to architectural millwork and old house parts. Then decided to set up a mill shop, along the way I ended up making a new market for high end machinery rebuilding, now I am getting back to running a couple moulders in the next few months.

I have changed, found the customers I want, doing what I want, paying what I want.

It's really not that difficult.

[John Sincerbeaux]

“It's really not that difficult.”
My hat is off to any professional woodworker who has figured out how to make a living in that industry. All the cabinet makers I worked for when I was younger quit the profession years ago. Every week, I get emails from the usual machine auction sites listing thousands of dollars worth of equipment for pennies on the dollar. It actually makes me kind of sad because every one of those machines were part of someone’s dreams.
I know a few guys who are amazing craftsman, contibuting editors in Fine Woodworking, and had their own TV shows, and none of these guys would say it’s an easy go.
If I come back in another life as a woodworker, I would hope to be Joe Calhoon living in a ski town, working in a shop filled with Martin equipment, building custom doors and windows for multi-millionaires.

[Mark Bolton]

My hat is off to any professional woodworker who has figured out how to make a living in that industry

Your barking at the moon John. We are all suppose to buy the machines we want to run and make the product we want to make. Its Field of Dreams, if you make it, they will come.

Your post is spot on. It matters not what you have a desire or passion to make, or what you'd "rather run". You make what will make you money. You can dip your toes in the water of alternate ventures presented to the market (which we do on a regular basis) but if your bent on ramming a product down the throat of the consumer your going to be left with a lap full of vomit if they dont find it to their liking. Smart business is just smart business. Capitalizing on a need is what anyone who has been in business for any period of time completely understands. The nightmare starts when one follows a perceived need. A novel idea can be cultivated. Running miles of molding and flooring and "cabinet parts" in a market with no shops that buy "cabinet parts", and flooring shops around every corner selling bread and butter pre-fin flooring installed for what you process rough material for, and customers looking to buy door casing for $1.50 for an 8 foot stick, is a guaranteed win in the race to the bottom (youll be the only one in the race).

There is literally not a shop to sell "cabinet parts" to within 100 miles of our shop. The haul bill on delivery of the "parts" would exceed the cost of "the parts". There will be a few custom trim packages in that radius. There will be a few juicy cab jobs in that radius. There will be a few custom furniture customers in that radius.

What there will be miles of is primitive's made at numbers you'd not be able to pay your light bill producing. Factory assembled "Amish" furniture. Home center materials, which competing with will put you in the ditch straight away. Cutting boards made by retirees who are enjoying their garage time (and should) and so on.

We pursue the markets we pursue in this area for a reason.

[Darcy Warner]

Your barking at the moon John. We are all suppose to buy the machines we want to run and make the product we want to make. Its Field of Dreams, if you make it, they will come.

Your post is spot on. It matters not what you have a desire or passion to make, or what you'd "rather run". You make what will make you money. You can dip your toes in the water of alternate ventures presented to the market (which we do on a regular basis) but if your bent on ramming a product down the throat of the consumer your going to be left with a lap full of vomit if they dont find it to their liking. Smart business is just smart business. Capitalizing on a need is what anyone who has been in business for any period of time completely understands. The nightmare starts when one follows a perceived need. A novel idea can be cultivated. Running miles of molding and flooring and "cabinet parts" in a market with no shops that buy "cabinet parts", and flooring shops around every corner selling bread and butter pre-fin flooring installed for what you process rough material for, and customers looking to buy door casing for $1.50 for an 8 foot stick, is a guaranteed win in the race to the bottom (youll be the only one in the race).

There is literally not a shop to sell "cabinet parts" to within 100 miles of our shop. The haul bill on delivery of the "parts" would exceed the cost of "the parts". There will be a few custom trim packages in that radius. There will be a few juicy cab jobs in that radius. There will be a few custom furniture customers in that radius.

What there will be miles of is primitive's made at numbers you'd not be able to pay your light bill producing. Factory assembled "Amish" furniture. Home center materials, which competing with will put you in the ditch straight away. Cutting boards made by retirees who are enjoying their garage time (and should) and so on.

We pursue the markets we pursue in this area for a reason.

Dude, I live in the middle of Amish land, Amish sawmill, cabinet shops, furniture, etc. I have never had an issue competing with them, because I don't.

If you can't see the Forrest through the trees, there is nothing that will help.

I have heard the same song and dance from tons of people around here. The crowd I deal with have no issues needing to be the cheap one.

Cheap is a bad word.

[Joe Calhoon]

I think the Logisol machine has a place in a lot of small craftsman type shops over a small Weinig or SCM four sider. Even the smallest of the Weinig and SCM machines take some serious electricity, dust collection, straight line rip, space and dust storage to be effective. The one downside I see to the Logisol machine is it does not appear to have straighting ability. It looks like it would be handy to S4S just a few workpieces spur of the moment which is a typical scenario in small shops. This is where the big molders fail. Not practical to change from molding heads to straight knives just to S4S for example 10 pieces of wood.

My experence has been our S4S planer moulder has been a profitable machine for our work but in the end it is used mostly for our own product. When we first got the machine we did some large 5 to 15 thousand foot orders of Millwork, flooring etc. and soon realized a 4 thousand foot shop and only a 16 yard dump trailer was not near enough to handle this. Plus it was cutting into our other work. I try not to take any jobs now over 500 to 1000 LF and even that gets pretty boring. I like the short runs of matching historic mouldng using the S4S in combination with the shaper.

If you want a custom molding shop set up 2 or 3 Weinig’s, a good arch moulder, a gang rip, a straight line, big resaw, 100 hp plus DC and at least 2 semi trailers to blow shavings into. And all the other standard machines that would be needed. You need a lot of square feet for this and the employees to feed it.

[Joe Calhoon]

Van, did you actually buy one or just see it? I've always thought their vertical- horizontal shaper to be an interesting machine. Don't know how it holds settings but woould be handy if it does. Dave

Dave,
That little Logisol shaper is a cool machine! I played with one at a show in Europe. It is light weight but seems to be a well engineered machine and capable of many things.

[Larry Edgerton]

With honest accounting you may not be in any form of a race and may well already be at the bottom.


Lol< the truth around here as well If I care to be honest. But I do what I want when I want, so that has to be worth something. But mostly I work...........

[Peter Kelly]

I certainly have been aware of the industrial sized 2 and 4 sided planers but have never seen a smaller 4 sided planer/moulder.

Logosol a Swedish company makes a really neat small 4 sided planer/moulder. While not exactly cheap the prices are much cheaper than I would have expected. (Que Darcy to come in and point out he bought a Stetson-Ross for $300, 4 tanks of gas and breakfast at Denny's)

It seems they also make and brand them for Woodmizer as well if you want an orange one.



http://www.logosol.us/planers/ph260/

https://woodmizer.com/us/MP260-Planer-Moulder

387616

It does 2 and 4 sided @ ~10" and single sided at ~16".Van - these moulders are actually made by another Swedish company, Mortens (http://www.moretens.com/en/snickerimaskiner.php) who were recently acquired by Woodmizer. Not sure what the arrangement will be with Logosol in future.

https://woodmizer.com/us/About-Us/Newsroom/News/ArtMID/5318/ArticleID/484/Wood-Mizer-Introduces-4-sided-PlanerMoulders

Cool little machine, seems very simple to set up.

[Steve Hays]

I have a PH260 and am still pretty green with it. I notice a few people on this thread are familiar with it or the similarly designed 360. Maybe one of you can help me with a question.

When using a deep cutting profile knife in the top cutter, is it best practice to make a single run--taking it all the way down to final thickness in one run--with feed as slow as possible, of course?
Or, do you advise two runs, taking half the profile depth in the first cut and finishing at final depth?

Any advice will be much appreciated.

[Bobby Robbinett]

We are looking for a used moulder for the shop that I co own. Would like to find an older 4 or 5 head machine for running door stiles and maybe the occasional s4s if we can get a sawmill and kiln eventually.