Sharping a fillister blade

[Seth Terndrup]

Hi all, anything I need to know about sharpening the blade from my moving fillister? Specifically, do I sharpen both of the sides. As the photo shows both have an existing bevel.

Im going to regrind the bevel(s) close to the already existing bevel. You probably can’t tell from the photo but the blade is all knicked up. Anything I should be careful of? I have a tormek so i won’t overheat the blade.

I also know know that I need to flatten the back. I will home freehand after grinding. Any advice is greatly appreciated!

[Mark Rainey]

Seth, I have not seen a fillister blade sharpened that way. I do not think you need a bevel on the side. But there are more experienced Neanderthals who might know more.

[Jeff Heath]

Mark is correct. It's not a side plane, it's a fillister. No need for that side bevel at all. The bottom bevel will do all the work. Very important that the bevel matches the bottom of the plane (straight or skewed) for protrusion, and you also want the iron to protrude out the side just a smidge....a few thousandths is enough. This keeps you from stepping away on each progressive cut.

If you find you need to regrind to match your plane, you can mark the back (after flattening it) with dykem layout fluid, or just a blue or red Sharpie marker, and scribe a line even with the bottom of the iron. This can be done with another sharp chisel, or a scratch awl, or any other sharp tool of your choice.

[Warren Mickley]

I have had a small side bevel on my fillister for 30 years or more. I have maybe an 80 or degree bevel rather than a flat side at 90 degrees. For a nice rabbet I like a little clearance there so there isn't rubbing by the side of the iron. It is not something that has to be maintained and you would not want to be sharpening it regularly and thereby make the iron narrower. I can't tell, it looks like the side bevel pictured is overdone, but nevertheless I would leave it rather than grind it away making the iron too narrow.

Welcome to the forum, Seth

[Stewie Simpson]

Skewed irons require an additional tuning step. The back of the iron along the shoulder side has to beveled at least as much as the skew angle and preferably more (see photo at right below). If the iron is not beveled , the shoulder corner of the edge cant project beyond the side without the back of the iron projecting even further. Actually, beveling the iron can work to your advantage. I bevel the iron slightly more than necessary and hone it sharp, so that if I choose, it will scrape the face of the shoulder ever so slightly as the cutting edge sinks the rabbet. https://books.google.com.au/books?id=lSVMWpzqfNgC&pg=PA127&lpg=PA127&dq=side+bevel+on+a+fillister+plane&source=bl&ots=n5qgY429m3&sig=F8Zg0vpmyUaaqqw9OjHE91wxXo8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwip5fWrhcjbAhVBxLwKHZ5qBrs4ChDoAQhNMAY#v =onepage&q=side%20bevel%20on%20a%20fillister%20plane&f=false

(https://books.google.com.au/books?id=lSVMWpzqfNgC&pg=PA127&lpg=PA127&dq=side+bevel+on+a+fillister+plane&source=bl&ots=n5qgY429m3&sig=F8Zg0vpmyUaaqqw9OjHE91wxXo8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwip5fWrhcjbAhVBxLwKHZ5qBrs4ChDoAQhNMAY#v =onepage&q=side%20bevel%20on%20a%20fillister%20plane&f=false)http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/moving%20fillister%20plane%20build/_DSC0202_zpscfgahyza.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/moving%20fillister%20plane%20build/_DSC0202_zpscfgahyza.jpg.html)

[Seth Terndrup]

Thanks for all the great info guys!!

i spent a little time today trying to flatten the back. This aspect I feel takes me much longer than I read people say it should take. I mark the back with a sharpie grid. Take 10 swipes to check my progress. When the grid is removed evenly I think it’s flat. However it seems to take forever. I’ve spent way too much time on this over the past year tuning used tools! I’ve tried the hammer trick and it kind of works. But geez this is a monotonous task.

[Stewie Simpson]

Seth; when your working the back of the blade, a 1/4" of flat surface above the cutting edge is more than adequate for a plane iron.

[Kees Heiden]

Thanks for all the great info guys!!

i spent a little time today trying to flatten the back. This aspect I feel takes me much longer than I read people say it should take. I mark the back with a sharpie grid. Take 10 swipes to check my progress. When the grid is removed evenly I think it’s flat. However it seems to take forever. I’ve spent way too much time on this over the past year tuning used tools! I’ve tried the hammer trick and it kind of works. But geez this is a monotonous task.

I hear jou! Especially when the back is pitted or the corners are dubbed over an eight of an inch deep. Be glad it is just a small fillister blade!

[Derek Cohen]

As Warren mentioned, the side bevel is for clearance. There have been for- and against proponents in this regard for donkeys years. My own opinion is that it is useful. It does not need to be sharpened. It does not need to be sharp - just relieved.

The blade itself should be sharpened at about 35 degrees.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Koepke]

Howdy Seth and welcome to the Creek.

As others have mentioned there only needs to be enough bevel on the side of the iron for a relief angle. This keeps the plane from jamming in the cut.

My method of setting how much the edge protrudes from the side is by pressing the side of the plane against the bench or a piece of hard wood.


i spent a little time today trying to flatten the back. This aspect I feel takes me much longer than I read people say it should take. I mark the back with a sharpie grid. Take 10 swipes to check my progress.

Ten swipes isn't enough to do much flattening. As much as we all talk about flattening you will find with single iron planes it is over rated. Get your blade sharp and as long as it is in line with the sole you will likely get good results with minimal back flattening.

jtk

[steven c newman]

The back of a single iron plane's iron only has a wedge to worry about....it is the bevel side of that iron, that sits on the bed of the plane...that should be flat. otherwise, it may rock side to side.

On the double iron planes, the flattened back is only for the chipbreaker or cap iron to register against....but, nobody seems to worry about the bevel side, even though it sits ON the frog's face....if it were indeed flat, maybe some of the "chatter" may get cured. Depending on which way the bevel side is out of flat.


Maybe bevel up planes are "different"? Or, do they have to be flattened on the bevel side?

[Seth Terndrup]

Ten swipes isn't enough to do much flattening. As much as we all talk about flattening you will find with single iron planes it is over rated. Get your blade sharp and as long as it is in line with the sole you will likely get good results with minimal back flattening.

jtk
Sorry I meant 10 swipes after marking the blade with a sharpie. I do a lot more swipes before I reapply the sharpie and check again. I find that with coarse sandpaper if I take 50-100 passes all the sharpie disappears but then when I try it on a fine diamond plate it doesn’t disappear which I assume is the real test.

thanks for the tip not to worry about the back too much. I didn’t realize that we did that so the chip breaker references. I thought it was for sharpness. Like getting those two planes (front and back) to meet.

[Jim Koepke]

thanks for the tip not to worry about the back too much. I didn’t realize that we did that so the chip breaker references. I thought it was for sharpness. Like getting those two planes (front and back) to meet.

My general rule of thumb is if the blade is cutting well, then the back is likely fine. If it isn't cutting well, then it may need to be flattened at the edge for an 1/8 to a 1/4".

Flattening on sandpaper can be tricky since the paper can 'bubble' or 'buckle' under the blade. Also the build up of swarf under the can cause it to rock from side to side while honing.

jtk

[Seth Terndrup]

Hey Guys, not that I don’t trust Derek’s suggestion to sharpen the blade to 35 degrees, but can anyone else confirm that? Thanks Derek!!

[Seth Terndrup]

I measured the current existing angle and it’s reading about 23 degrees. Someone above said it should be about 35 degrees. Anybody have any thoughts on correct bevel angle or confirm the 35 degree suggestion?

[Seth Terndrup]

I measured the existing bevel angle and it is 23 degrees. Someone commented that it should be 35. Can anyone confirm or suggest otherwise?

[steven c newman]

I don't have that particular plane in the shop....I would sharpen yours to match existing...then see how it works for you. Being bevel down, a steeper angle just gives more "meat" to the edge....but you run the risk of the bevel rubbing on the work, instead of just the edge.

[Derek Cohen]

23 degrees is far too low. Somewhere between 30 -35 degrees, depending on the wood, is appropriate. The lower end if the wood is softer and less abrasive.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Warren Mickley]

I have used 30 degrees for rabbets and fillisters for more than 40 years. I use the same angle for bench planes.

[Stewie Simpson]

Seth; the following shows the typical bevel angles used on a 45* bevel down plane iron.

https://dblaney.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/004_1_1.jpg


Your moving fillister plane is more than likely bedded at a higher 50*. That higher bed angle allows you the option of increasing the secondary bevel angle from 30* to 35*, and still maintain a 15* clearance angle.

50* - 35* = 15* clearance angle.

[Seth Terndrup]

Thanks guys I will take it up to 30-35. Sorry for all the reposts. I thought it wasn’t working and finally realized they were on another page doh!

[Jim Koepke]

For some reason literature from Stanley (and likely others) suggested 25º for sharpening a plane iron. As Steven said many folks like to sharpen at 30-35º for a bit more material behind the edge in hopes it will not need a resharpening as soon.

jtk

[Kees Heiden]

Wasn’t that, grind at 25, hone at 30 degrees?

[Jim Koepke]

Wasn’t that, grind at 25, hone at 30 degrees?

It all depends on your sharpening set up. My 'grinder' is a Veritas Mk 11 Power Sharpening System (http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=48435&cat=1,43072) which is a flat disk sharpening system that doesn't create a hollow grind.

One feature of this is the difference in thickness of the abrasive sheets of coarse material is thicker than the finer abrasive sheets. This causes a secondary bevel if one doesn't take measures to defeat the feature.

My blades are sharpened without the intent of creating secondary bevels.

What works for me in my shop may not be what works for another person in their shop with their species of wood or methods of work.

jtk

[Kees Heiden]

I mean the recommendation from Stanley. I thought I read that in a Stanley brochure, but can’t look it up now because my laptop is dead an on the phone its pretty cumbersome.

[Jim Koepke]

I mean the recommendation from Stanley. I thought I read that in a Stanley brochure, but can’t look it up now because my laptop is dead an on the phone its pretty cumbersome.

It depends on when the recommendation was published. My 1953 Stanley catalog says the bevel should be approximately twice as long as the thickness of the blade to achieve a bevel of 25-30º. The bevel checker listed for sale, at 15¢, is set for 25º. There is no mention of a secondary bevel. A more recent publication does mention grinding at 25º and honing at 30º. Some blades actually have an indicator stamped in suggesting the blade be honed at 25º.

It isn't super critical. With soft woods 25º works fine for me.

It is easier to start at 25º and add a secondary bevel if so desired than it is to start at 35º and try and get a lesser angle if one desires.

jtk

[lowell holmes]

I find that a diamond hone helps flatten plane iron backs.

[Stewie Simpson]

Seth; when you get that iron sharpened up I'd recommend you also check the fit of the wedge within its abutment.

Chalk is applied to the top surface of the wedge, the wedge is then lightly tapped into position, then removed, and the top abutment wall inspected for signs of chalk transfer marks. Ideally, those transfer marks should show down the full length of abutment wall. Where that's not the case, those early high marks are lightly worked back with planemaker floats, and the process repeated until that goal is achieved.

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/moving%20fillister%20plane%20build/DSC_0077_zps7q6h8iwj.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/moving%20fillister%20plane%20build/DSC_0077_zps7q6h8iwj.jpg.html)

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/moving%20fillister%20plane%20build/DSC_0078_zpsupkgvydo.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/moving%20fillister%20plane%20build/DSC_0078_zpsupkgvydo.jpg.html)

The following example shows poor contact occurring between the top surface of the wedge and the upper abutment wall.

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/phil%20edwards%20moulding%20planes/DSC_0074_zps6rukkley.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/phil%20edwards%20moulding%20planes/DSC_0074_zps6rukkley.jpg.html)

After working away those high spots along the abutment wall, the top of the wedge is now showing uniform contact.

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/phil%20edwards%20moulding%20planes/DSC_0075_zpsvln6mlbv.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/phil%20edwards%20moulding%20planes/DSC_0075_zpsvln6mlbv.jpg.html)

[Richard Hutchings]

Why the floats? Couldn't this be accomplished just as well with a paring chisel?

[Jeff Heath]

Why the floats? Couldn't this be accomplished just as well with a paring chisel?

Any number of tools could be used, but floats excel at this task, which is why planemakers use them for these tasks. A properly sharpened float is an excellent tool for flattening surfaces like plane beds and cheeks, and it takes some effort to "dig" in and take too much, as a float, with it's length and multiple cutting teeth, acts more like a file for wood, with a long surface like a jointer, preventing it from gouging in unless you're very careless.