Sketchup

[lowell holmes]

I just ran across a Bob Lang video on my computer that I had forgotten about. It is a Pop Wood video about Sketchup.
I am curious if any of you use the software. I have it, have used it, but don't anymore.

[Dave Richards]

I am curious if any of you use the software.

Yes. I use it. And there a many others who do, too.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I use it but not often enough to be as proficient with it as I would like.

[Jim Becker]

You'll find that a "large number" of woodworkers use SketchUp and one of our community members is one of the foremost experts/trainers/authors on the software for the purpose. I don't draw things out very much for my work (at least non-CNC), but when I do, SketchUp is what I use. I also did the original conceptual designs for our home addition using this software which the Architect then was able to refine the design and produce the required plans for permits and the contractor to use.

[John K Jordan]

I just ran across a Bob Lang video on my computer that I had forgotten about. It is a Pop Wood video about Sketchup.
I am curious if any of you use the software. I have it, have used it, but don't anymore.

I use it, mostly to illustrate things for documentation or to lay out a new farm building. For 15 years I used high end 3D modeling software for my work and going from that to SketchUp is like switching from a Powermatic lathe to a pocket knife. It's got a lot of inefficiencies but it will get the basic job done without a big learning curve.

JKJ

[Mark Bolton]

I just ran across a Bob Lang video on my computer that I had forgotten about. It is a Pop Wood video about Sketchup.
I am curious if any of you use the software. I have it, have used it, but don't anymore.

Every single day, and for hours each day. Its our go-to software for the shop.

[Brett Luna]

Yep, I use it and in fact, I enjoy doing it...so much so that I bought a 3D mouse/controller setup for it.

[William Adams]

I tried it for a while, then got turned off by the "thoughtcrime" aspect of the license after Google sold it, and am now using OpenSCAD.

Trying to find the time to learn Solvespace, which is free and opensource.

[Mark Bolton]

I tried it for a while, then got turned off by the "thoughtcrime" aspect of the license after Google sold it, and am now using OpenSCAD.

Trying to find the time to learn Solvespace, which is free and opensource.

I will agree that it was a sad day when Trimble acquired it. I recently was just reminded of this when I had an issue with Win10 update and was forced to re-install everything and even though I had all my old 2017 information I am unable to remain with 2017. I hadnt migrated the shop to 2018 because we were so busy and I didnt want any hicupps and then because Trimble in their authoritarian rule over older versions left me no choice. And there were hiccups as there always will be.

While I dont appreciate Trimble acting as a lead boat anchor, its still a phenomenal option. We use a lot of open source when we can but if you think your dealing with work arounds with a well supported product and a user community to draw from, open source takes that to another level (Ive been a Gimp user for, well, ever).

Sometimes you have to pick your battles.

[Dave Richards]

I will agree that it was a sad day when Trimble acquired it.

SketchUp would have been deceased five years ago if Trimble hadn't bought it from Google. Google would have killed it like so many other programs it killed (https://gizmodo.com/all-the-google-products-that-google-itself-has-killed-d-665225668) when they ceased to serve their purposes. Well before SketchUp was sold, it had quit serving Google's purpose for buying it from the company that developed it initially. Google had already nearly stopped any development on SketchUp a year before they sold it.


... and even though I had all my old 2017 information I am unable to remain with 2017.

Why is that? If you have the license key and serial number for SketchUp 2017 Pro, you can still install it and use it.


... and then because Trimble in their authoritarian rule over older versions left me no choice.

What do you mean by "authoritarian rule"?



While I dont appreciate Trimble acting as a lead boat anchor...

I don't see this at all. They've made major improvements in SketchUp and LayOut in the 6 years since they purchased it. It's much more stable than the old Google versions and there's more and better capability.

If you're referring to the fact that the free version of SketchUp isn't licensed for commercial use, that started with SketchUp 8 when it was still a Google product.

[Bob Lang]

I use it for my own work and work for clients, teach it at woodworking clubs and schools, do corporate training in SketchUp, as well as write about it. There is a lot more material authored by me out there than the old PopWood video.

I was trained in manual drafting, used AutoCAD for a number of years and enthusiastically switched to SketchUp more than ten years ago. When you compare the features and capabilities of SketchUp to other programs, and factor in the cost of a Pro license it's a bargain.

There have been corporate changes in ownership that have had an impact on the "free" versions, but the core team working on the product is much the same. They are a great group of people, and they continue to improve a great product. These folks need to make a living and the "free" versions are supported by the money from paid licenses. Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but I think the restrictions on the "free" versions of SketchUp are reasonable. "SketchUp Make 2017" is still available as a download, and will be for the foreseeable future. The new web-based software "SketchUp Free" is pretty capable if you have a decent internet connection. There is also a new online product called "SketchUp Shop" that has many of the features of "SketchUp Pro" at a reasonable subscription price.

I think every woodworker should know how to use SketchUp. You can plan by pretending to build, see and share what your project will look like from any point of view, and you can retrieve a gold mine of useful information from your model. It makes life easier in the shop and solves problems without wasting wood.

Bob Lang

[Ross Manning]

I bought Bob Lang's Sketchup tutorials - they are very good.


However I m considering moving to Fusion360. https://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/overview
This is free for hobbyists, and it seems to be radically more capable, with (for me at least) a much more logical workflow. Also, if you ever move to CNC, the software includes CAM capabilities.

[William Adams]

There are a couple of different options for CAM from Sketchup --- export an STL and use a stand-alone repair program (may need to fix the mesh), and various plug-ins/utilities such as Phlatscript and Sketchucam

[Rob Price]

Ive used to to plan several pieces of furniture. Indispensable for me. The PoP Wood website has a great sketch up blog that taught me all kinds of tricks.

[Matt Day]

If I ever have a question about SU and I can’t find the answer from searching online, Dave Richards is my first stop. He’s the man.

Funny thing was the other day I couldn’t figure out why It wouldn’t let me creat a Component, searched online and found a post from Dave where he had already answered the question on another forum!

So yes Lowell, lots of us have been using SU for years.

[Dave Richards]

Thanks for that, Matt.

Out of curiosity, why weren't you able to make the component? You can answer privately if you'd rather not take this thread off course.

[Grant Wilkinson]

I am a hobbyist, but use Sketchup 2017, the free version, to plan my projects. I have both of Dave Richards' books and they are the only reason that I can do more than draw rectangles and straight lines. Dave has also helped me through emails to finish complex things.

[John K Jordan]

[Trimble has] made major improvements in SketchUp and LayOut in the 6 years since they purchased it. It's much more stable than the old Google versions and there's more and better capability.

Certainly in Layout and connectivity, but not in the core of SketchUp. I do understand how those who have never used professional 3D modeling and rendering software might think SketchUp is the cat's meow.

But I used an early version of SketchUp before the original developers, At Last software, sold it to Google. (I even bought the "pro" version.) I still have the excellent SketchUp Book (the missing manual) and when I picked up SketchUp again after more than a decade of not touching it I found very little changed. The tutorials and reference material from the old book were still a as good as new with only minor changes in menus and nomenclature. The same clunkyness was there, some of the same peculiarities and even some bugs, and certainly very little improvements in workflow. Even basic lights, cameras, booleans, and especially mapping coordinates are still primitive. (Fortunately the original revolutionary snaps have survived.)

To me the points to the syndrome we have often seen when new developers take over existing software - the original team is long gone and the new guys don't understand the core routines. No one dares to touch them except to patch bugs that can't be ignored. (Yes, the overall stability has been improved since the Google hacks messed with it.) I am certain Trimble considers it WAY too expensive to assemble the right teame and rewrite from the ground up which is what it really needs. Why should they, when they are making money! In my humble opinion.

That said, the program is still incredible for some things, architecture in particular. My son used it to interactively tweak a building to get a design sign-off while sitting with a difficult client. Now THAT's worth a pile of gold.

JKJ

[Dave Richards]

Certainly in Layout and connectivity, but not in the core of SketchUp.

Actually, they've made a lot of changes to the core of SketchUp and that's a large part of their development focus.


To me the points to the syndrome we have often seen when new developers take over existing software - the original team is long gone and the new guys don't understand the core routines. No one dares to touch them except to patch bugs that can't be ignored. (Yes, the overall stability has been improved since the Google hacks messed with it.) I am certain Trimble considers it WAY too expensive to assemble the right teame and rewrite from the ground up which is what it really needs.

Actually a large number of the original @Last team are still working on SketchUp including some who were there at the very beginning. Since Trimble bought SketchUp they've increased the number of people working on it by almost 10 times what there were in the Google days. There are currently at least seven job postings for additional members on the SketchUp team. It's clear that Trimble doesn't consider it "WAY too expensive to assemble the right team."

[John K Jordan]

Actually, they've made a lot of changes to the core of SketchUp and that's a large part of their development focus.


I hope their focus is not fuzzy. What they haven't done is improve the core architecture. Many things that are trivial to do in other software are impossible in Sketchup, or possible but take an order of magnitude longer to accomplish. Just consider the incredible stack architecture in 3DS Max. That took rewriting the software from scratch. Of course, I quit using it about 10 years ago and don't follow what's available now. I keep up with the latest in llama parasite control instead and beehive management.

[Mark Bolton]

SketchUp would have been deceased five years ago if Trimble hadn't bought it from Google.

I dont disagree in any way that SU should have been kept by Google. Google is buying, and selling, ideas for profit which is what everyone is doing today. Its a perfect business model. There are countless teenage multi millionaires who launched an app or service and are now employed by MS, Google, Etc, who bought the idea.

It merely seems to be that Trimble has been somewhat slow to react to several of the needs/concerns of the construction/architecture world which they are now chasing with wreckelss abandon.

Dont get me wrong, I am a full fledged user. As I said, hours per day.

I have no idea what the issue is with 2017. I have my key, I have kept my keys' backed up for this very reason. And now I am told that the key is valid for 30 days and then I will have to get a new key. The key did not work when I installed 2017 with a fresh download from the site OR from the dowloaded files that I also backed up when I setup 2017 originally. I emailed Trimble and heard nothing back. Having to keep the shop running I pulled the pin on 2018 and am not miserable by any means but when your busy even the small changes foul you up.

While it heresay I was told that Trimble doesnt want the old keys functioning because they dont want you to have the ability to sell the older versions of the software to someone else. I have no idea whether that is true or not but this all fuels a bit of my hatred for subscription based/maintenance based software. That said, I have given in to all of it and now pay annually for everything from MS office, to SU, to Adobe, on and on.

Its no different than Autodesk, they are doing the same thing. Its a wonderful business model, have the people who are paying for your software populate a user forum and have a full fledged tech support department for your product that is PAYING YOU, instead of paying them a salary lol. Its priceless.

Its a new world.

[Matt Day]

Thanks for that, Matt.

Out of curiosity, why weren't you able to make the component? You can answer privately if you'd rather not take this thread off course.

At the prompt to name the component, there was a box that needed to be checked at the bottom; I forget what it was.

[Mark Bolton]

I do understand how those who have never used professional 3D modeling and rendering software might think SketchUp is the cat's meow.

I think so much of this is an issue of what you have been around for long periods of time, which turns into what your comfortable and familiar with, and so on. When I was learning in the computer world on the fringes there was no doubt in my mind that the people who were giving me these great tips had pounded their heads against the wall to hone their skills and now it was just second nature for them to love, and be proficient, with software that was inept in its own ways but they had enough time in to reduce their pain.

I dont think its anything different than back when old timers couldnt figure out how to program their VCR to record a half a dozen different shows throughout the week. You are use to what your use to and just because in a given title you can do one things slickly (in your own mind) but overlook other areas, doesnt mean the next offering is suppose to be able to have the foresight to roll it all into one.

I have and still do, work with several different programs. And some just make more sense to me than other. Not better, they just jive with the way my brain works. SU has always felt this way to me. It feels, and can be made to look, like your working in the shop with actual parts. Im waiting for the day that I get to try being in the SU environment with some VR deal and I can pick up a cube, stretch it into a board, poke a hole, extrude a tenon, shape a piece of wood, with the palm of my hand.

[Bob Lang]

. . . some just make more sense to me than other. Not better, they just jive with the way my brain works. SU has always felt this way to me. It feels, and can be made to look, like your working in the shop with actual parts . . .

That's the sweet spot for using SketchUp and I think it's like learning to ride a bicycle or a foreign language. People struggle and struggle and then one day it clicks and you're not trying to remember how the program works, your just pretending to build. I also think there is a bit of brain rewiring that takes a little time to happen. Hand/eye coordination learns how to pick up cues from SketchUp and stay on axis. I spent the first few months when I was learning SketchUp saying to myself "well this seems to be kind of a cool program, but why doesn't it do what AutoCAD does?" It turned out that my expectations about how it ought to work (just like the program I was used to, but in 3D) kept me from seeing simpler, more elegant and efficient ways to do things. Nowadays I bitch and moan when I use AutoCAD (why doesn't this behave like SketchUp?) and I also try to orbit when I'm using PhotoShop or Adobe Illustrator.

Bob Lang

[John K Jordan]

I think so much of this is an issue of what you have been around for long periods of time, which turns into what your comfortable and familiar with, and so on.


I agree that is often the case. In this case, however, it is all about the function. I had access to any software available and used many in my work. Some of what I did could have been done, after a fashion, in SketchUp, but it would have taken a LOT longer and evoked a lot of frustration. I did use SketchUp occasionally for some simple things where we needed to interactively change dimensions or things like door placements for management review - it's good at that.

Consider just one thing that I mentioned - stacked architecture. You work this way: create a primitive, boolean, add a modifier to bend, then twist, scale along an axis to get exactly what you need, then attach bones and animate. Apply mapping coordinates somewhere in the stack and perhaps a procedural texture, say adjust the reflectance, translucence, and perhaps add chatoyance. Then much later as the project changes, decide you need to go back and segment the primitive differently or adjust the axis of the twist or even CHANGE the primitive. With stacked architecture you simply segment the primitive and the structure bubbles up through all the operators and you are done in 10 seconds. In SketchUp you start over and rebuild the object from scratch. SketchUp is great if your needs are simple, especially if you don't know how the pros work. A friend of mine did a lot of the underwater scene (i.e., JarJar Binks) with this software. Another friend did the lighting in Stuart Little. They didn't use SketchUp.

I used it to do hundreds of scientific and technical models, renderings, and animations, some for magazines, some for television, some went to congress to secure appropriations. Like I said, I haven't kept up with how things have evolved in the last 10 years or so, but I do know that software and several others intimately. (I did tech support for Discreet/Kinetix for years.) Probably about 1/3 of what I did was related to architecture in some way like these examples. Some was more organic, biological, some space related, some pure physics and chemistry. On the side I did models for CBS for the OJ Simpson trials and material for a number of murder trials - anyone want diagrams of the stab wounds or exactly where the glove was found? I was fortunate to work at home for all of this.

387345 387356 387346 387355

SketchUp is useful for what it is capable of, but it's an amateur in the 3D modeling community. It is in fact fantastic for simple stuff like this, which I did on a whim to document something a friend was putting together:

387348 387347 387354

JKJ

[Dave Richards]

At the prompt to name the component, there was a box that needed to be checked at the bottom; I forget what it was.

Replace selection with component. ;)

[Jim Becker]

SketchUp is useful for what it is capable of, but it's an amateur in the 3D modeling community. It is in fact fantastic for simple stuff like this, which I did on a whim to document something a friend was putting together:
That's the thing. There are absolutely more capable applications out there, but at what price? SketchUp! is approachable by its intended market; both for the free version and for the paid version. And the type of models you illustrate at the end of your post are spot on for "this audience", for the most part.

[Ross Manning]

That's the thing. There are absolutely more capable applications out there, but at what price?

Quick answer - the price is FREE (for Fusion360 if you are hobbyist or small business with annual revenue under $100k)

Watch this Fusion360 tutorial for a woodwork example (dovetailed drawers)
https://youtu.be/nZ2ymIljiWk (https://youtu.be/nZ2ymIljiWk)


I find it is far more logical in how you approach modelling. And parametrically driven 3DCAD makes life so much easier; you can tweak your model easily, and "intelligently" scale without distorting (for example, make a cabinet 10% higher wile the baseboard and material thickness remain the same.) This video shows how you can leverage parametric design in a simple woodwork project (bookcase)
https://youtu.be/IGsAAB9S_g0 (https://youtu.be/IGsAAB9S_g0)

[Jim Becker]

Ross, I'm familiar with Fusion360 and have a subscription. I don't believe it renders like some of the fancy examples in John's post, however, but I could be wrong. It certainly is very capable and is a very good tool.

[Mark Bolton]

I agree that is often the case. In this case, however, it is all about the functiomJKJ

John,
With all due respect, posting your sketchup example in comparison to your others is akin to posting a tinker toy in comparison to a single nut, washer, bolt, and lock washer, in one of your four examples. Posting a 3D rendering of an entire facility as a comparison to a 6 part interface is literally a joke. It would be like me positing a cutting board with 6 parts in comparison to an entire home drawn and rendered with every individual component at a construction level detail.

There are models rendered in the same, and much higher levels of detail, daily in SU that can be drilled down into right to the individual part detail.

Your 3D representations are great. Ive drilled down into models like your bridge crane building that were drawn literally to the nut, bolt, screw, and washer.

What it honestly boils down to is what your being paid for. We draw extremely detailed models (In SU) when we are being compensated for it or when we need to for our own liability.

Comparing tinker toy models to models that likely cost tens of thousands of dollar in software and man hour costs is not a realistic comparison.

[Mark Bolton]

Quick answer - the price is FREE (for Fusion360 if you are hobbyist or small business with annual revenue under $100k)

Watch this Fusion360 tutorial for a woodwork example (dovetailed drawers)
https://youtu.be/nZ2ymIljiWk (https://youtu.be/nZ2ymIljiWk)


I find it is far more logical in how you approach modelling. And parametrically driven 3DCAD makes life so much easier; you can tweak your model easily, and "intelligently" scale without distorting (for example, make a cabinet 10% higher wile the baseboard and material thickness remain the same.) This video shows how you can leverage parametric design in a simple woodwork project (bookcase)
https://youtu.be/IGsAAB9S_g0 (https://youtu.be/IGsAAB9S_g0)


Ross,
And no different than any other model in todays word (Autodesk has done this dozens and dozens of times with other titles) they will offer up the options "free", letting their user base de-bug and provide all the free customer service and tech support, and then when they get the hook set to a point they feel valuable, they will monetize the software. Fusion will not be "free" forever.

I will capitalize on it all I can while it is. But dont delude yourself. There is a profit motive there for sure. They have released several applications that received a lot of traction and were then monetized. Enjoy it while you can.

[Ross Manning]

Ross, And no different than any other model in todays wor(l)d...

Agree - and that includes SU. No company is building software as an altruistic exercise, and all have to pay the bills. However there are numerous examples of how companies monetize their products other than asking for license fees. SU is also moving down this path - the writing is on the wall - for example from Trimble blog recently "...As SketchUp evolves, our free software is shifting from desktop to web..." Likely a step toward an annuity fee model.

Anyway, that's not really the point. At the moment Fusion is free for the majority of hobbyist woodworkers, and its a great tool - far more capable & far less frustrating to use than SU for what I do, but your mileage may vary. I do urge people who want to use computer modelling in their work to at least look at it.

Here is another woodwork related video that explains benefits well https://youtu.be/5JZKSDSyP6g

[Ross Manning]

Ross, I'm familiar with Fusion360 and have a subscription. I don't believe it renders like some of the fancy examples in John's post, however, but I could be wrong. It certainly is very capable and is a very good tool.

It has a really good rendering engine. In fact you get multiple levels - the ability to apply texture to your model, a "pre-render" mode, and the ability to fully render photorealistic images and videos.

[Dave Richards]

Amateur, huh?

All SketchUp modeling.
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/449/32711128182_c9dde05f51_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/RQz5LE)

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1744/42660751601_37beb7fccf_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/27ZMvb2)

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1734/41761426085_5eb6d8d688_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/26Cje2F)

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1733/27791535337_e64f766afd_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/JkQTdn)

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1749/42660762511_b1f1f24d44_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/27ZMyq8)

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1721/27791539377_c3e247ddd1_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/JkQUq2)

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1755/42660778831_ea84350890_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/27ZMDgv)

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1734/42660783911_16a5b09f5f_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/27ZMEM6)

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1738/41943358304_784349b0de_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/26UoF95)

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1748/28787824118_ef6158d69b_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/KRT8a9)

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1728/41943352904_710f6147a9_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/26UoDwY)

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1724/42661090181_e9beb2e630_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/27ZPePB)

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1734/41943356984_7f0967b731_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/26UoEKj)

[John K Jordan]

You created all these models yourself? I'm impressed!!!
How much time did you spend modeling these?
What rendering software did you use?

Or are they pictures you found on the internet?

BTW, they all suffer from the Flicker "not found" syndrome for me when I tried to see the detail.

JKJ



Amateur, huh?

All SketchUp modeling.
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/449/32711128182_c9dde05f51_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/RQz5LE)

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1744/42660751601_37beb7fccf_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/27ZMvb2)

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1734/41761426085_5eb6d8d688_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/26Cje2F)

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1733/27791535337_e64f766afd_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/JkQTdn)

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1749/42660762511_b1f1f24d44_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/27ZMyq8)

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1721/27791539377_c3e247ddd1_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/JkQUq2)

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1755/42660778831_ea84350890_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/27ZMDgv)

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1734/42660783911_16a5b09f5f_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/27ZMEM6)

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1738/41943358304_784349b0de_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/26UoF95)

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1748/28787824118_ef6158d69b_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/KRT8a9)

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1728/41943352904_710f6147a9_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/26UoDwY)

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1724/42661090181_e9beb2e630_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/27ZPePB)

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1734/41943356984_7f0967b731_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/26UoEKj)

[Dave Richards]

The first one is mine. The rest from friends and acquaintances. the photo-realistic ones from various renderers. The last five are nothing but SketchUp and LayOut.

As to the amount of time spent on them, I can only speak to the first one. I have less than an hour in it which includes modeling the clock and rendering it. FWIW, the case and the knobs are also 3D printable.


BTW, they all suffer from the Flicker "not found" syndrome

I don't know why that would be. They are all marked as public on Flickr.

[Mark Bolton]

You created all these models yourself? I'm impressed!!! JKJ

All you have to do is subscribe to one of the SU feeds on google+ or any other of the feed engines out there and you will see drawings and renders daily that are, to the untrained eye no different than a photograph. The photo-realism is often backed up with a fully accurate model. There are a lot of people in SU drawing at an engineering level regularly. We have done this for customers many times simply to allow us the ability to show how our work will interface with others and with as-built conditions. We can leave it at 2D if needed, take it on through to 3D, to photo rendering, and in the end we can export the entire thing to a cutlist or CNC and run the job.

[Rick Alexander]

I was actually an early student of Bob's when I learned SU many years ago. I first learned it to improve my woodworking and give me more time building rather than planning out there - Which it did in spades. I just finished a full kitchen using SU as my cut list at the very beginning and able to trust the measurements were perfect as long as I stayed accurate cutting. I actually enjoy drawing my projects about as much as building them. Now I have the paid version at work (work in a laboratory) to do various schematics, design parts for automation - redesign labs etc -etc- etc. I'm in the process of moving toward learning a couple of new programs that are more compatible to our 3D printer which is getting hugely helpful for our lab. Amazing where that first class in SU has led me in life. Now I get paid at work to play with programs I absolutely love working with and using 3D printers to model the most amazing things - pretty darn cool.

[Bob Lang]

Good to see it paying off for you. Doesn't seem like it was that long ago to me, but it's been a while.

Hope all is well with you and yours.

Bob