Help for a potential beginner

[Bob Noles]

I have no idea at this moment where I will put a lathe in my shop or even the first thing about how to use one. I do know that I have been seeing some beautiful work from time to time and it takes a lathe to get there, so...... here I am in unchartered waters :eek:

I have been told that a mini lathe might be a good place to start. I really believe that my initial interests would not go beyond knobs, pens and very small bowl type items. Will a mini get me there for those type projects? What is a good mini to be looking at? Which accessories and tools will I need in addition to the lathe itself? About how much total investment will be needed?

I know that like any other tool, these questions get asked a god bit, but would appreciate any fresh advice you have to offer.

TIA for your patience and help.

[Chris Barton]

Hi Bob,

Welcome to the turners forum. A mini lathe is a great way to start. Two that are very good and would allow you to get a feel for the art are the Jet Mini which comes in a true variable speed (with electronic speed control) or the Rikon Mini which has a belt and pully system that provides you 6 turning speeds (I think). Jet also make a model similar to this and it looks exactly like there VS mini.

http://www.woodcraft.com/images/family/web2054big.jpg
http://www.woodcraft.com/images/family/web5508big.jpg

The Rikon has a slightly larger swing (distance from the center of the headstock to the bed) than the Jet and a slightly longer bed than the jet. Either would be good choices but, if I were buying new I would probably pick the Rikon. I currently own the Jet VS Mini and a big PM3520a and love both. Be ready though, lathe work is much more addictive than flat work and you will need (want) many other items to go along with your lathe. Good luck!

[Blake McCully]

About how much total investment will be needed?


Bob,
The tools and accessories will depend a lot on what exactly you want to start out doing. I won't go into that here, others will be giving you more adivce than you can process:o

The only thing I want to point out at this time is that unlike many endeavors we get ourselves into, with wood turning, the initial investment is probably the least amount you will spend on this hobby, vocation, avocation, addiction, whatever label you choose to use.

My suggestion is to find a turning club near by, how near/far is up to you. Hook up with some of those turners, ask questions, watch demos, whatever. The quickest way to become discouraged and give up is to try to jump in and not really knowing how deep the water is.

Other than that. Go for it. You're in for a wonderful ride.

[Bob Noles]

Chris and Blake......

Thanks so much for the input and suggestions. I will review what you have given so far and continue to watch this thread for hopefully additional information. Chris, I really like the sounds of the Rikon.

[John Hart]

Hi Bob!.... Yep...a wonderful ride. What I like the best is that you don't have to spend a lot of money on wood. You can turn just about anything laying around. When I decided to buy a lathe, I had no forum to ask, no friendly advisors, nothing. I just wanted a lathe. So I went out and bought one. Then I needed some turning tools....so I bought some. This went on and on, and in the end, I had a bunch of stuff that I had no clue how to use!!!
5 years went by and I hadn't turned anything worth keeping. All garbage. It wasn't until this last spring that I got motivated again and started asking questions here on SMC. Since that time, I've learned a tremendous amount, about the craft, and about myself. So, since I use lousy tools, I won't make any recommendations...But I will suggest that you get engaged in what everyone else is doing and how they do it. The folks here are such phenomenal crafters and even the mistakes offer insights worthy of years of experience.

[Andy Hoyt]

.....since I use lousy tools, I won't make any recommendations...

Hey Bob. - With that quote said, take a look at what John is producing with his lousy tools. His stuff is pretty darn good and puts my stuff to shame even though I actually have a very good pile of turning gear at my disposal! What this means is that one does not neccessarily need to get the best of everything. How you use whatever you've got is what's most important.

Good luck! Actually, you won't need luck. But you do need time at the lathe.

[Travis Stinson]

1st thing, get some good wax and coat the rest of your tools, then roll them off in an unused corner!;)
You can't even imagine the fun you're going to have when you jump on this ride!:D :D :D :D :D :D

[Chris Barton]

Hey Bob,

I am going to chime in here again. Not because you aren't getting good advice, because you are. But, rather because of something that Andy said in his post. And that is about spending time with your lathe and turning. When you do get your lathe, use all the great advice you got here but, more than anything else, just get out there and turn wood. If there is one great universal truth I have learned in turning it is, turn often. The more time you spend at the lathe, the better you become.

[Bob Noles]

Okay...... I've been sitting in my shop the last hour just looking around trying to find a small foot print of space for "one more tool" :eek: LOML says there is always room for one more in her flower bed and I hope/know that this should apply to my shop as well :D I've also been reviewing and peeking at many of the previous threads and my fever keeps rising. Never knew so many cool things could be done with a lathe. I can certainly see one in my very near future. This looks like it would really round out my shop (excuse the pun) :)

Thanks for all the kind guidance on the subject. SMC folks have always come thru when I need help and this time has been no exception.

From the looks of things, I should be able to do this addition for a little less that $500 total which includes chucks and tools. I already have a grinder and sharpening devices. Does this figure seem about right?

[John Hart]

I think $500 or less is a great start! 'Course then, I'm a scrounger.;) I could have a ball with that figure!

On your prospective footprint though...I'd like to recommend that you find a place where you don't care about the wall where it sits. :D

[Bob Noles]

On your prospective footprint though...I'd like to recommend that you find a place where you don't care about the wall where it sits. :D[/quote]


Thank goodness for concrete block walls :cool: From some of my reading, I am a little more concerned for my body parts than the wall :D

Does anyone have an exact idea of the tools, chucks and other accessories I need to be looking at to get me started?

Thanks again John.

[John Hart]

From some of my reading, I am a little more concerned for my body parts than the wall :D

Oh yeah...those things.:eek: You'll need a Face Shield for your list.

Stuff to have? Here's some suggestions:

1. Extra faceplates (4 inch seem to be adequate...But I always need a couple laying around in case one is busy)
2. A keyed drill chuck for your tailstock. Very handy for initial boring. (I don't have one...but it's next on my list.)
3. A long necked toolrest of some sort. Jim Ketron makes nice ones...he should recommend a good style.
4. Lot's of good grade durable sandpaper - all the way up to 1000 grit or better.
5. Finishes - Shellac, lacquer, CA, BLO, Carnuba Wax, Beeswax, Watco...are all good staples...and there are many others
6. A set of turning calipers
7. Dial or Digital Calipers
8. Good Screws for mounting
9. A Bandsaw
10. Variety of Rasps and files
11. To turn a foot, you'll need a method of turning a piece around...everyone does it different. There are expensive methods and free ones. I use Jim Becker's jam method using a block of wood and a mousepad.



If I think of some more odds and ends...I'll post 'em. This is fun!:D

[Chris Barton]

Hi Bob,

Here is a picture of my Jet Mini set up and the way I have chosen to do it the lathe is mounted to a board with a lip on the front that allows it to sit on top of the cabinet you see here without sliding. Then, when not in use it can be placed upon the cubby below and another tool can take its place.

[Andy Hoyt]

I'll take a piece of this and let others add to it.

Tools - You said you have a grinder and sharpening devices. Some specifics on what you have would be helpful, Bob. I'm a 1750 rpm and wolverine guy and I'll assume you know what that means. If not, cruise these threads and you easily will.

For small bowls all you'll really need to get started is a 3/8" bowl gouge and I've found that one with an Irish Grind is a highly versatile tool to learn with.

For spindle stuff you'll want a 3/4" roughing gouge, a 1/2" spindle gouge, a 1/8" parting tool, and a 1/2" skew. To me, this is a great set of "starter tools" and a lot can be done with them.

Each of the tools noted above can be acquired for anywhere between $20 and $100. My reccommendation is to shoot for about $30 each for now. As time goes by you'll grind these down to nothing as you tweak your grinding skills. And then replace them with better quality tools as warranted.

But don't worry, at each step of the way you'll talk yourself into buying specialty tools so you can do that "special thing". I have a bunch of those and for the most part they just make my collection look bigger. I've been doing a lot of ornaments lately and after roughing them round I am forcing myself to do the entire piece with nothing more than a 1/4" skew. Don't have to - just want to - and am chalking it up to "practice that pays for itself" because the whole batch got presold.

Okay, the tips of my two index fingers are getting blistered. I'll pass the hat to someone else. Hope you find this helpful Bob.

[Bob Noles]

John, Chris, Andy......

Excellent last posts and so very helpful. The lists and picture are so much appreciated and certainly give me a little more to go on in researching my needs and the prices,

Andy, I have a basic DW grinder and my sharpening devices are water stones, and a bench top belt sander. From your post, I may need to allow a little more to the budget :eek:

I really am getting enthused about lathe work and see that this could really be a lot of fun.

What about additional chuck needs to get started?

John, I have most of the general WW items you listed at this time, but did pick off a few lathe tool/supply considerations I need to look into.

I think I have about figured out my foot print problem by building another flip top tool stand. I see no reason why a mini lathe could not work well on that type of set up and that would take care of my space problem.

Thanks so much guys!

[Jim Ketron]

$500 is a good start but don't think that will be it:D It will not be long before you want to make diff things and need more equipment! Most people like myself started out just like you, buy the tools as you need them!
also do some research on here lots of tips on what to buy and what to stay away from. I have learned to buy the best tools I can afford! You will save money in the long run. I have purchased tools that where cheap and had to upgrade them so IMO that was money I should have saved up a bit longer to get a better quality tool.
You have some good info on this thread on tools to start out with, so take it from there and Have Fun!

[John Hart]

Bob...I thought of something else....Something to buff with. Most folks will recommend the Bealle System. I hear it's very good.;)

Oh yeah...and a method of holding your tools to the grinder to ensure a good consistent approach to the grinder while sharpening...there are several jigs available. This is fairly important.

Ok....I'll shut up now! :D

[Chris Barton]

Chucks are important in bowl turning and i have use two of these by Grizlly and they have been fantastic for the price. Even though I have a Oneway Stronghold, I still use my griz on a regular basis...

http://images.grizzly.com/grizzlycom/pics/jpeg288/G/G8784.jpg
Only $40

[Andy Hoyt]

Bob - I just reread your original post. You've never ever turned! Somehow I missed that on my first time through. This prompts yet another notion. And it tracks along with Blake's suggestion to visit a local club.

Back when I was right where you are now; I thought that turning was appealing and looked like fun. I knew no one who turned, didn't have a computer so didn't even know what a forum was. Long story short I found out about a guy not too far away who gave lessons. So I spent $200 and one Saturday with him. It was one on one (which is unusual) so the day was crammed full.

I did this in the hope that I'd find out if I'd really like it afterall and before I spent a ton of money. It was the best $200 I've ever spent. And then I went a spent a ton of money!

[Carole Valentine]

Thank goodness for concrete block walls :cool: From some of my reading, I am a little more concerned for my body parts than the wall :D

And you should be. Something ricocheting off a concrete wall can appear to double it's speed before it smacks you in the head!:D Yes, you MUST have a full face shield.
I started with a Jet mini, non-VS less than a year ago. In September I upgraded to a Nova DVR, but I would not give up my Mini for anything. It's a fine little lathe and smooth as silk. On a mini, I don't think the VS is worth the extra money. On a bigger lathe I would definitely say go VS. You can use the money you save towards tools, chucks, jaws, sharpening jigs, etc. I think a Wolverine grinding jig or the equivalent is essential, especially for a new turner. You should also set aside a few bucks for some books, videos, and classes. Then you will want a chainsaw to harvest all that found wood. I am assuming you have a bandsaw and a drill press. I don't think you can possibly have a clue what you are getting yourself into! Once you step across the threshold, there is no return!:D

[Rich Stewart]

I bought that utility chuck from PSI when it was on sale. I would definately reccommend getting a chuck. Like everything else, get the best you can afford. Get two if you can. I had a little trouble at first because it would wobble but after using it for a while I can rechuck a piece almost without fail to run true. They not only squeeze in but out. Like a jam chuck. Opens up a whole bunch of possibilities. Here is a picture of it in action.

[John Bailey]

Good thread!!

What kinds of things can you make with a mini? I didn't have any plans for a lathe, but I have an unlimited supply of American Hornbeam in my woods and this thread has started me thinking about all the things I could make for my boatbuilding plans like door knobs, belaying pins, and shop items like mallets, and tool handles. I've also got quite a bit of Ash. Will the mini work for these projects? Does the mini offer enough power to use with the hard woods like Hornbeam and Ash? What other projects can be done on a mini?

John

[Chris Barton]

Hey John,

Really, a mini can do almost anything. About the only limitations you have are the swing size and lenght of bed. So, with my Jet mini I can turn bowls almost 10" in diameter and spindle work up to 12". Anything bigger than that and I go to my PM3520a. But it is rare that I turn bowls much bigger than 10" So, given those parameters you only limitations are time and material...

[John Hart]

.....this thread has started me thinking about all the things I could make for my boatbuilding plans like door knobs, belaying pins, and shop items like mallets, and tool handles. .....

The bug has bitten....and there's no vaccination.:rolleyes: ;) :D

[Bob Noles]

Y'all have given me a lot to think about and I really appreciate each and every reply to this thread.

From what I am picking up, I really need to study the tool sharpening aspect and requirements more than any other single factor. It appears that it will be the foremost important investment up front.

I also plan on education thru demos, classes and other resources as recommended, but wanted to look at actual shop needs beforehand.

I initially fooled myself into thinking that a simple mini lathe with a few turning tools would allow me to make an "OCASSIONAL" tool handle, mallet, pen or small bowl, but I can see that it just plain is not going to be that "simple" after all :o

I plan to dig deeper and learn as much as I can and study the sharpening aspect, before proceeding in making a lathe purchase.

Thanks so much for all of your kind help.

[Chris Barton]

Bob,

That's exactly how I felt when I got my first lathe (a Ridgid WL1200). My first project on that lathe was 4 table legs for a Federal period piece which included fluting and I had to builld a special jig to hold a router spinning a beading bit and using the indexing wheel of the lathe to space the flutes. Little did I know that I picked one of the most difficult things you can do with a lathe for my first project but, everything turned out fine.

What you will find with a lathe that is different than doing "flat work" is:

1) Lathe work is usually fast, bowls, pens, wine toppers, etc can be made in minutes, not weeks.

2) Like John said, most of your wood for turning can be had a little or no cost. Beware the siren call of the chain saw! If you get one of those as well as a lathe your life will never be the same. And, you will never look at a fallen tree the same way ever again...

3) There are so many fun things you can make with a lathe. Pen turning by itself can be incredibly rewarding but, then there is chess pieces, and bottle toppers, and bowls, and boxes and...

4) Once you have a lathe there will always be other turning tools you will want no matter how many you own. "If I could just find another 7/8" super flute bowl gouge..."

5) Your lathe becomes a jealous lover, while you try to get that flat work project done with your table saw, jointer, planer, sander... your lathes sits there looking at you and taunting you to stop and just come over for a minute to turn something, dare I say it, "a quickie" just a pen, or a knob for the cabinet...

[Carole Valentine]

Does the mini offer enough power to use with the hard woods like Hornbeam and Ash? What other projects can be done on a mini?

You can do most anything under 9.5" in diameter on a Mini and as far as spindles, you can add an extension bed. I think mine is 42" between centers. You won't run into a wood the Mini won't handle. You just might run into some that your TOOLS won't handle if you don't have them sharp! LOL

[Lee DeRaud]

Is there any way to hide a thread? Got a feeling that reading this one is going to end up costing me a bunch of money.:eek: :p

[Andy Hoyt]

Is there any way to hide a thread? Got a feeling that reading this one is going to end up costing me a bunch of money.:eek: :p

Not if you sell off that laser:D

[Bob Noles]

Is there any way to hide a thread? Got a feeling that reading this one is going to end up costing me a bunch of money.:eek: :p

Lee..... my fears exactly. I'm trying to figure out just how much :eek:

[Lee DeRaud]

Not if you sell off that laser:DOne thing about the laser is, I never have to sharpen it.:cool:

[Gary DeWitt]

Coupla things to add to all this excellent advice:

Good source for books, dvds may be your local library. Also, perhaps, your local woodturning group, depending on where you are. Look up the AAW:
http://www.woodturner.org/
You can find your nearest chapter there. Many of them maintain libraries of books and dvds. Also a lot of friendly, helpful guys there, and the occasional demonstration to keep you inspired and informed.
Also, there's a good group here:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.woodturning?lnk=lr

Almost anything you can buy for turning, except possibly gouges and chucks, you can make yourself if you happen to have more time than money. Even the lathe. Sometimes for less than the item would cost retail. I've made my own lathe stand, with drawers, Cole jaws for the chuck, sharpening jigs similar to the wolverine system, tools as in scrapers, captive ring tools, holllowing tools, etc.

There's no end to the possibilities in turning, just get started where you are with what you have and a bare minimum of equipment, and buy/create what you need as you go. The journey really is the point, there is no "destination". You're in for a great time, enjoy.

[Bob Noles]

Gary,

Thanks so much for taking the time for the reply and the link to the google group. I'm reading as many posts as I can find on the subject trying to find exactly what I need that will allow me to find the minimum starting point of turning.

[Chris Barton]

Hey Bob,

One of the premier turners of the world lives in your area, Nick Cook.

Here is a link to his website:

http://www.nickcookwoodturner.com/

I have a DVD he did for Jet on the fundamentals of turning and it is very enjoyable.

[Bob Noles]

Hey Bob,

One of the premier turners of the world lives in your area, Nick Cook.

Here is a link to his website:

http://www.nickcookwoodturner.com/

I have a DVD he did for Jet on the fundamentals of turning and it is very enjoyable.

Chris,

He is not only in my neck of the woods..... he is nearly my next door neighbor. WOW.... what a find!

Thanks so much for the link.

[Andy Hoyt]

Nick would be a great instructor. Did a demo at our chapter a while back.

[Ellen Benkin]

I know it's been said over and over again, but I'll repeat for more emphasis -- BEFORE YOU BUY ANYTHING, TAKE A CLASS. I see you are in the Atlanta area and I assume there is a Woodcraft somewhere near there that will offer turning classes. If not, check out the AAW website and find a club near you and talk to someone who turns about what you need to buy. A mini lathe and some tools are not as expensive as a new table saw, but you should not just go off and buy stuff before you know what you need to start. Then you need the accessories like a grinder and a bunch of grinding jigs. Then you will need lathe chucks, etc. It can get pricey to jump in without advice.

[Ron Ainge]

I just spent the weekend turning on a Rikon lathe at a wood working show in Denver Co.. I will start by saying that I have two old iron Delta lathes and a VS Jet Mini. I like the ones that I own but I was not impressed with the Rikon. The first problem I had with it was the drive belt was so thight that it was hard to get it off of the pulleys to change speeds, next the indexing wheel inside the drive head came loose and it took about an hour to get it back in place (I think that the set screw they used was undersized), next the crank for the tail stock came loose and I had to find a metric allen wrench to fix it with, and lastly the drive belt started to shred. all of these things happend within the first two days of turning with the lathe. I will keep my Jet Mini, thank you.

[Chris Barton]

Hi Ron,

Thanks for the feedback on the Rikon. I have only tried it for a few minutes at the local Woodcraft and can't speak to the reliability.

[Dick Strauss]

Bob,
you can save yourself some $ on your initial setup if you are willing to build some of your own sharpening jigs. I've built some wolverine like sharpeneing jigs from scrap maple and ash. My jigs might be better than the wolverine setup due to some improvements I made.

You can also save money initially if you use face plates rather than chucks like the oneway strongholds/talons. If you're like me, you quickly realize how much easier it is to turn a foot and clamp it in a chuck instead of screwing or gluing the piece to a faceplate.

Harbor Freight has a turning set of 8 basic HSS tools that runs $36-$45. It is a bargain and a half for starting the learning process. Like any turning tools, these need to be sharpened often to get the best results.

I'm just getting started myself so I am by no means an expert!

John Hart,
You can mount a long drill bit in a handle for the initial center boring prior to hollowing. The drill is set on top of the toolrest at the center of the piece. It works surprisingly well and doesn't take much force! I got the idea from a friend. He's got a chuck for boring but doesn't use it because it is much easier with the basic boring tool. Since you also like to build-your-own, you might want to try this one.

[John Hart]

....You can mount a long drill bit in a handle for the initial center boring prior to hollowing. .....


Seems almost obvious now that you say it Dick!:o Thanks! I'll do it!:)

[Bob Noles]

Dick... thanks for the additional advice. I do like saving money where I can and the one thing I have learned is that the more knowledge one can gather, the more money one can save :cool: That's what I like about SMC and it's members.
Y'all have been GREAT!