Surface Rust

[Wade Holloway]

One year ago our house was struck by lightning and we had a major structure fire. My shop was in the garage and originally was not involved with any damage, but as the contractors worked they did not secure it very well and we had some rain damage to that area. All the equipment was wiped down and rubbed with a oil rag but now that I am setting my shop back up some of my equipment has some surface rust on them. Such as my new lathe, Band Saw Table top and a few others. Is still the best way to get the rust and stain off of cast iron just oil and Steel Wool with lots of elbow grease or is there a easier and better way to do it nowadays. Thanks for any help and guidance.

[Ben Rivel]

Pretty much just good old fashion hard labor! Many use WD-40 as the lubricant now and some will use an RO sander to speed up the process but yea, its all the same work.

Now, there ARE some very good ways these days to protect the top once its back in shiny shape. Lots of options there.

[Warren Lake]

Razor blade at a low angle then Jacks method, ive used different ways like how Jack does it then im thinking razor blade first gets rid of a good portion and less wear on the Scotchbrite.

387109

[Nick Decker]

Now, there ARE some very good ways these days to protect the top once its back in shiny shape. Lots of options there.

Could you list some favorites? I've been surprised at how quickly rust appears for no obvious reason, even with wax applied. For instance, leaving the fence on my table saw parked over the cast iron overnight. Apparently, condensation forms under the fence, boom! Rust!

[Frederick Skelly]

Could you list some favorites? I've been surprised at how quickly rust appears for no obvious reason, even with wax applied. For instance, leaving the fence on my table saw parked over the cast iron overnight. Apparently, condensation forms under the fence, boom! Rust!

Based on someone's advice here, I have been wiping my de-rusted steel tops with a clear finish. Shellac didnt hold up well, but several oil based varnish variants have lasted 6 months or longer. I put it on and rub it in well. After it dries, I knock down any nubs with a brown paper bag. Sometimes I follow that with wax - other times I dont. YMMV.
Fred

[Nick Decker]

Fred, I remember something about putting varnish-type things on cast iron, and it just seemed "wrong" to me. That, and thinking about what it would involve if you wanted to remove it.

[William Young]

Could you list some favorites? I've been surprised at how quickly rust appears for no obvious reason, even with wax applied. For instance, leaving the fence on my table saw parked over the cast iron overnight. Apparently, condensation forms under the fence, boom! Rust!

If you have conditions where rust just simply occurs for no apparent reason, I have found that the easiest thing to do is plug in a small fan and keep the air circulating. It doesn't take much. A small table top fan works great; especially if it oscillates.

This is a common (usually seasonal) problem with un-insulated shops and is caused when the metal tools get cold and the air is warmer and humid. The moisture in the air then condenses on the cold metal. I realize that this is not the OP's situation.

[Warren Lake]

temp changes between night and day and or overall humidity have one room now 89 percent

[Dan Friedrichs]

Razor blade at a low angle then Jacks method, ive used different ways like how Jack does it then im thinking razor blade first gets rid of a good portion and less wear on the Scotchbrite.



Warren, the brush cup+scotchbrite looks slick. Do you use that dry, or is there some lubricant (like WD40) involved?

[lowell holmes]

A wire wheel on a grinder is what I use, followed up with a coat of Johnson's floor wax. I have been cleaning tools from Hurricane Harvey rust.

[Ben Rivel]

Could you list some favorites? I've been surprised at how quickly rust appears for no obvious reason, even with wax applied. For instance, leaving the fence on my table saw parked over the cast iron overnight. Apparently, condensation forms under the fence, boom! Rust!
Sure thing. Once you have the top shiny and clean here is my process:



Clean the top with denatured alcohol, wipe dry with clean cloth/shop towel
Apply coat of Boesheild T-9, spread evenly and let dry overnight
Wipe down top with clean clean cloth/shop towel to remove T-9 tackiness
Apply coat of Renaissance or Johnson's Furniture paste wax, let dry for 20-30 minutes
Buff dried wax off till top is super slick
Repeat steps 4 and 5 one more time for a solid second coat of wax
Reapply wax every 1-3 months dependent upon usage.
Enjoy


That's what I do to all my cast iron table tops and none have a speck of rust.

[Nick Decker]

If you have conditions where rust just simply occurs for no apparent reason, I have found that the easiest thing to do is plug in a small fan and keep the air circulating. It doesn't take much. A small table top fan works great; especially if it oscillates.

This is a common (usually seasonal) problem with un-insulated shops and is caused when the metal tools get cold and the air is warmer and humid. The moisture in the air then condenses on the cold metal. I realize that this is not the OP's situation.

That's pretty much my situation - unheated/uninsulated shop. I can see how a small fan would help, will give that some thought.

Ben, thanks. What you described isn't far from what I've been doing, excepr that I've never used Boeshield. Wasn't sure if it was OK to put wax over it.

[Wade Holloway]

Thanks guys!.

Ben I was thinking about a RO Sander with a scotch brute pad on it to speed things up. Just did not know if something new was out there now. Last time I dealt with rust on cast iron I never was able to get the stain out of it and looking new again.

Thanks for the info on the Boesheild T-9 and it’s use. Will have to find be some of that. I have plenty of Renaissance Wax, use that on the knives that I make all of the time.

Thanks again everyone!!

[Jim Andrew]

I tried Boeshield, paste wax etc, but the best thing I have found is wipe on poly. Even works well on my tire machine, and seems like tires are always wet either inside or outside.

[Matt Day]

Warren, the brush cup+scotchbrite looks slick. Do you use that dry, or is there some lubricant (like WD40) involved?

That’s the method I use too. No lubricant needed. Scrape with a razor blade first is always a good idea.

I’ve tried most all other ways and this is by far the fastest and most effective.

[Warren Lake]

Lubricant yes sometimes a beer or red wine. Thank Jack Forsberg for that method. works well and also is not too aggressive on machines that have ripples like in my photo or on my jointer one shaper.

[Wade Holloway]

Warren are you using the beer or wine or drinking it. :) It would be hard to pour a perfectly good glass of beer onto my table top instead of drinking it. :)

[jack forsberg]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uMrVusnaEg

[Wade Holloway]

Nice! That is a great way to do it. Thanks :)

[Matt Day]

That’s the Jack method, where I learned it from. I’m going to be cleaning up some surface rust today, i’ll take a brief photo tutorial and post back this afternoon.

[Mike King]

The recommendation on the Felder Owner's Group was Barkeeper's Friend and a maroon abrasive pad. Barkeeper's Friend is oxalic acid that eats rust.

Mike

[Chris Parks]

Thanks guys!.

Ben I was thinking about a RO Sander with a scotch brute pad on it to speed things up. Just did not know if something new was out there now. Last time I dealt with rust on cast iron I never was able to get the stain out of it and looking new again.

Thanks for the info on the Boesheild T-9 and it’s use. Will have to find be some of that. I have plenty of Renaissance Wax, use that on the knives that I make all of the time.

Thanks again everyone!!

ROS + Scotchbrite using Autosol which inhibits rust return pretty well. If it is really bad a cup brush on an angle grinder will get it to the point where the ROS is usable. Fifteen minutes tops from bad rust to shining bling.

[Charles Coolidge]

Buy a gallon of Evaporust its amazing.

[Matt Day]

Evaporust is a great product but not for a machine flat surface. It stains and is difficult to use on flat surfaces.


Here are the pictures from today.

[Charles Coolidge]

Evaporust is frequently used to restore machines from the 1950's flat surfaces and all. Obviously for light surface rust its probably overkill.

[Matt Day]

Have you used it on table saw tops or the like? I tried it once with evaporust soaked rags and it left a stained mess that I had to buff out anyway.

I’ve used gallons of the stuff on planes, machine parts, etc. Not my first choice for tops. To each is own - they both get it done.

[Charles Coolidge]

Have you used it on table saw tops or the like? I tried it once with evaporust soaked rags and it left a stained mess that I had to buff out anyway.

I’ve used gallons of the stuff on planes, machine parts, etc. Not my first choice for tops. To each is own - they both get it done.

I personally used it to restore a 1950's Rockwell 14" radial arm saw, it worked fantastic. Some of the cast parts that were heavily rusted were rough casting surfaces, not machined. Evaporust got down into all the nooks and crannies. As for staining, its the rust that stained the metal not Evaporust. After soaking the saw parts overnight and rinsing with a scrub brush the only stains on the metal were where there had been rust. Evaporust is a really neutral product, not and acid, not caustic, will not remove metal or paint (unless there's rust under the paint). It eats rusts that's all, consumes it like food. Its so no toxic you can pour it down a drain after.

[William Young]

The recommendation on the Felder Owner's Group was Barkeeper's Friend and a maroon abrasive pad. Barkeeper's Friend is oxalic acid that eats rust.

Mike
Plain white vinegar works about as well as oxalic acid on mild rust. I'm not sure how the cost compares, but a gallon of white vinegar at the grocery store is pretty cheap. It also works pretty well at restoring/sharpening old dull/rusty files and rasps.

[jack forsberg]

for bad rust on cast iron and flat milled tables its hard to beat a razor

387204

Rust Fest is official open for registration

http://jforsberg.ca/

[Warren Lake]

sed the safety edge razor on the last few and its a good improvement in making the schotbrite last longer. I didnt have a handle just a safety edge blade held at a low angle and only used one side likely it rounded a tiny bit. Not much rust on what Matt has shown there so razor not needed but when its heavier its worth it. wear a dust mask with the Schotchbrite you will be tasting iron. I have used WD and didnt find any benefit other than maybe kept dusting down. Ive only used burgandy 3M so far have finer but not tried it, you will leave a bit of an irregular sheen pattern, not a big deal.

[Robert Engel]

I use my random orbital sander with 220 grit and some type of lubricant. Caution: this can make the pad on the sander degrade.

So now I use the same setup but with a piece of scotch brite pad.

A mild abrasive flap disk and 4" grinder also works well.

I don't like using wire wheels.

You can also pretreat with vinegar or Evapo Rust. Caution: do not use Ospho!!!

[Jack Frederick]

I have used my RO Polisher with WD-40 & 220 and 320 grit pads followed up with Johnson's paste wax. As noted the oil has deteriorated the polishers foam base, but I got a couple years out of it and it does a very good job. Given your climate and uninsulated/heated I think the oscillating fan is a very good idea. I wonder if opening the cabinets of the cabinet and band saw would help as you would then have air movement "around" the tables?

[William Young]

I wonder if opening the cabinets of the cabinet and band saw would help as you would then have air movement "around" the tables?

That reminds me of an article I read quite a long time ago about protecting smaller hand tools, etc, from rust when in an uninsulated shop. They built or modified a cabinet or set of drawers by putting a light bulb somewhere inside in a safe location. Turning it on during seasons of the year when condensation is a problem provides enough heat to keep condensation from occurring on the tools.

Having said that, keeping your small tools in an enclosed spaces may be enough to keep condensation away. Before I had an insulated shop, I had problems with exposed surfaces, but tools in cabinets or drawers remained dry. The cabinet and the still air inside provides some insulation; sometimes enough to do the job.

[Nick Decker]

I use my random orbital sander with 220 grit and some type of lubricant. Caution: this can make the pad on the sander degrade.

So now I use the same setup but with a piece of scotch brite pad.


Bingo!

My situation is a fairly new saw with random rust spots. Nothing heavy, just persistent. I used a green scotch brite, which acts like hook and loop on the RO pad. No lubricant of any kind. The whole top took maybe 15 minutes and it's spotless.

I did spend a little longer on some areas that I had used a wire cup wheel on with the grinder, just to even them out to match the rest. I'd reserve the wire wheel method for heavily rusted stuff.

After running the Scotch Brite, I went over it with an acetone rag until no more black residue showed on the rag. I've got a coat of T9 drying on it right now, will finish it off with wax tomorrow.

Thanks, Robert, I think this nailed it for me.

[Mike King]

Plain white vinegar works about as well as oxalic acid on mild rust. I'm not sure how the cost compares, but a gallon of white vinegar at the grocery store is pretty cheap. It also works pretty well at restoring/sharpening old dull/rusty files and rasps.

https://youtu.be/5Bkdej_z1HI

[William Hodge]

Before I went into woodworking for a job, I had a garage shop in a neighborhood in suburban New Hampshire. The shop was attached to the house by a breeze way. I didn't heat the shop, and in the spring warm moist air would come in, and rust the table tops, innards, and everything in the shop. I would spay heavy oil on the machines and cover them with special blankets treated with rust preventative stuff. However, every spring, my prize Craftsman saw would have a coating of rust on the table.

On a Saturday morning in May, after it had warmed up, I would wheel the saw out into the driveway and go to work. The first step was to grind the rust off with a series of use 120 grit ROS pads mounted on the nose bearing of a chain saw. Being 2 cycle, the saw could tilt sideways to get parallel to the table surface. Next I would go with WD-40 and 220 grit paper on the ROS pad. The Scotch Brite pads on the ROS pad, then Scotchbrite pads of finer grade with a ROS. Finally, I would take paper towels and WD-40 and clean all the sandpaper grit and Scotch Brite pad particles and bar and chain oil off the saw table, sides, and insides.

As everyone knows, WD-40 will not prevent rust. You need wax for that, good wax, applied the right way. This was my favorite part.

I would get out my Sony Walkman and put in my Percy Sledge tape "When a Man Loves a Woman" on repeat. That one song went over and over on the tape, left over from my younger days. I would put the headphones on, crank it up, and sing along, really loudly, and wipe down that table with my wife's Brazilian Booty Wax (32 oz container).

I never thought much about what my neighbors thought about me out there in the driveway. They did think about me. As much as I thought Isounded like Percy Sledge, they thought I was a noise problem.

"Well, this man loves a woman
I gave you everything I had
Trying to hold on to your precious love
Baby, please don't treat me bad!"

The neighbors did indeed think about me. I don't know what they disliked more, me singing or using the chain saw, but they got together and bought me a dehumidifier, and set it up in my shop without even asking me.

It worked. The humidity stayed below 45, and the excess heat from the dehumidifier was just enough to keep the relative humidity a little lower. I aimed the warm air at the saw.

The neighbors taught me a lesson in machine care, more than machine maintenance.

William Hodge

[William Young]

https://youtu.be/5Bkdej_z1HI

Mike. Thanks for the link. Very interesting experiment. I'm not a chemist and I was both surprised and not surprised. I am not surprised that acetic acid (vinegar) was at the bottom of the list as it is relatively mild stuff. I was surprised at the results with phosphoric acid. I have used it numerous times with seemingly better results. However, most of the time my efforts are in removing mild surface rust and/or soaking rusty pieces over several hours. I have also soaked rusty pieces in vinegar over night with good results. There were a lot more bubbles and the vinegar turned into a brown gunk; contrary to what happened in the video experiment which stopped after an hour. More importantly, pieces came out fairly clean. Of course, vinegar is pretty safe to use and is readily available.

[Matt Mattingley]

My favourite for surface top is Evapo-Rust. I soak paper towel and clean up with varsol with green scrubby and paper towel dry(about one hour between applications with a dish green scouring pad). Then apply wax.

[Stan Smith]

My house was partially burned from the Carr Fire last July. There was a lot of smoke and intense heat in the shop. Plastic drawers and tool cases partially melted and soot was all over everything. I've been doing research on how to clean my tools including a TS, lathe bed, band saw, and other metal parts. Did you know that chemicals in smoke can cause damage to metal and electronics. Read this article

http://www.er-emergency.com/2011/06/08/technical-bulletin-effects-of-smoke-corrosion-to-equipment-and-electronics/

Thanks to all who contributed to this thread. I've watched some other youtubes also. I was surprised that, after 5 months, my scms would no long slide because of rust! I'm going to try the grinder w/wire brush, then scotch bright pads with ROS. Going to use Fluid Flow to start and probably wipe on poly to finish and/or maybe Johnson's wax. I really appreciate this forum and the nice folks who are always willing to help. I am replacing my scms, but I really don't even want to think about replacing all of my tools. The heat in my garage shop was 2500 deg. F. I'm posting this with hopes that someone else will discover what damage smoke can do to metal couple with intense heat. I'm no chemist or expert, but finding suggestions for this chore has not been easy. Thanks again for the info.

[Wade Holloway]

So sorry about your loss. Good luck with your rebuild, I wish you the best.

[Kevin Beitz]

After you get your top the way you want it protect it with a can of Slipit.

[Stan Smith]

Thanks for the kind words.

[Stan Smith]

This is an update of my learning experience. There's a youtube on rust removal tests.. The guy tests different rust removers using heavily rusted railroad spikes. He got the best results with Eastwood rust remover with the spike submerged in the liquid over night. I've been trying Bull Frog, Fluid Flow, Evaporust, and Eastwood. I got the best results with Eastwood. I bought a gallon but it cost $34 with shipping. The rust comes back very fast regardless of what cleaner I've used. I also used an ros and rubbing compoud by hand. I used Johnson wax, but some rust returned in just a few hours. I've order some T9 Boeshield spray. I've mainly used the various products on my lathe bed, bandsaw, and table saw, but my other tools, that were exposed on the pegboard or work bench will have to be treated as well. The nice shiny finish on my lathe tools is now a dull gray. I know, I know it's the cutting edge that really matters. We have a lot of rain here this winter, but the humidity is very low in the summer.
I just ordered a new DC system from Rockler. I've spent a lot of time trying to get my tools in useful shape. Sorry to ramble but hope my terrible experience might help someone else. I should have cleaned everything as soon as the evacuation was lifted, but our whole house had to be cleared so that was the priority. We have just finished going through over 200 boxes of belongings that were supposedly "cleaned"but contents , from kitchen to garage, were all mixed together.

[Wade Holloway]

Stan I am not sure but I think I remember someone telling me the problem about rust from smoke and fire is the acid that is in it. If so you would have to neutralize the acid before the damage will stop. Maybe someone will step in to correct me if I am wrong. Good luck.

[Jack Frederick]

I haven't used the ROS before, but have used my Dewalt RO Polisher a lot for cleaning the table tops. It is a slower rpm. I have to get a new pad for it however as the WD destroyed the old one. I use a 320 grit and WD-40. I've used cup brushes on grinders in the past and use only a light gauge wire brush. It is all still a lot of work on a badly rusted surface but it is nice seeing it come up. I finish with Johnson's paste wax

[mark mcfarlane]

I've had good luck with Evaporust on many projects, but I did leave a pair of channel lock pliers submerged overnight and the metal turned black. I'm pretty sure that it was not only rusted areas that discolored, all of the metal turned a pretty dark, uniform black (and the light rust was gone). Might have something to do with the steel composition in this 30 year old pair of Craftsman pliers.

Anyway, put some T-9 on the pliers and they have stayed looking the same: a nice black :).

I still use Evaporust extensively, but since my blackening experience I am cautious to check for discoloration every hour or so during my use of Evaporust.

[Bill Dufour]

I found on my tablesaw that 400 grit is as fine as it needs to go. I tried 600 and do not see any improvement with my ros.