Need ID help for Disston Handsaw

[Mark R Webster]

Was hoping for a little help identifying this saw I picked up at the flea market today. It doesn’t quite fit any of the descriptions found on the Disstonian (which is the only source I am aware of). It has a 1-inch medallion that dates 1896-1917. The handle looks like a No 16, but the chip carving doesn’t look quite right. The etch on the blade is gone so that is no help. The saw is 26 inches long and the blade is a skew-back which doesn’t match the No 16 which was a straight back. The other saw type with the medallion positioned at the bottom is the No 76, a skew back, but the handle doesn’t look right. Any ideas what this saw is? … a Frankensaw? :confused:

[Mike Hutchison]

Am I seeing 9 Pt correctly?
This is just a first reaction to close-up of handle;
any chance it is a pretty well done repro handle?
NOT EVEN an expert; but something about the handle looks
"muddy" & the word stain comes to mind

[Joe Tilson]

Check out the No.76 "Centennial" on disstonioninstitute.com
Sorry, I didn't read your last sentence, but it still looks like the 76.
Could be a tote replacement.
Could you possibly use a darkening solution to raise the etch?

[Pete Taran]

No wheat carving on the #76 fellas. That handle looks production to me, if you take off the handle, how many sets of holes are there? It’s clearly been fully restored, guessing the original tote was toast and replaced with the one on it now.

[Stewie Simpson]

Handle looks to be a Disston No.16. The saw blade should have a straight back to be original to the handle.

http://www.disstonianinstitute.com/16page.html

[Pete Taran]

No question Stewie. While it is almost always the right answer to suspect a saw like this has had a replaced tote, like in this case when a saw should be straight backed and it is skewed, that is not always the case. Around the time Disston was developing the skew back, a lot of interesting hybrid type blades were produced. Attached are a few photos of such a saw.

The saw is relatively early. Blade suggests it's no earlier than 1871, the saw nuts are the variety used from 1876-1877, with the Nov 18, 79 patent date in the handle. All these dating hints conspire to be an 1880 dated saw. The etch proves it was always a #7, and the condition of the saw also suggests it has not been fooled around with. I have several other #7s with these same features, both of them have no nib, just an ordinary skew. I've never seen a skewback with a nib. These sorts of saws are very rare, but not unheard of. Apparently around the time of the D8 introduction, there was a lot of experimentation with adding that feature to their straight backed saws. For your consideration.

386656386657386658

[Mark R Webster]

Thanks guys for your input! I will try to post a pic of the blade where the holes are w/o the handle in place. There are 4 holes in the correct places. Interestingly there are 2 notches at the end of the blade. I suppose the blade could have been shortened the notches are reminents of other holes but the that seems a stretch...

[Mark R Webster]

Yes it is 9 pt :)

[Jim Koepke]

Thanks guys for your input! I will try to post a pic of the blade where the holes are w/o the handle in place. There are 4 holes in the correct places. Interestingly there are 2 notches at the end of the blade. I suppose the blade could have been shortened the notches are reminents of other holes but the that seems a stretch...

The saw may have been stored in a vertical rack. Then one day some guy carrying a heavy load bumped the handle and bent the saw right in the handle area. Sounds like something that could happen every day.

jtk

[Mark R Webster]

Here is a pic of the blade w/o the handle in place. Note the notches... the stamp for the 9 points is present and the hang seem right for the handle. Seems like if it was shortened and redrilled the 9 would be gone or the hang would have had to change?

386662

[Pete Taran]

It does not appear to have been replaced to me. With the 9 stamp in the heel, if it was cut down, that stamp would not be present. The only other explanation, is that it's a no name saw that Disston made with a replaced nut. Disston had many, many saws it made with etches to order. Typically they did not have a Disston Medallion, but it could have been replaced, or could be original. Who knows. If you look at the attached catalog page from 1914, you will see several saws with that kind of nut pattern. Without an etch, like so many of these mystery saws, it is impossible to say.
386665

[Mark R Webster]

Thanks Pete very enlightening! :D I seem to run into these odd ball tools :o

[Rob Paul]

Since it doesn't fit the Disston playbook, and the handle and plate seem original, I think you should consider that it may not be a Disston saw at all, but comes from another manufacturer but with the medallion replaced. For example, that handle/plate/bolt pattern is the same as an Atkins 56.
As Pete says, without an etch we're just guessing

[Mark R Webster]

Hi Rob you might be on to something.... Thanks!

[Mark R Webster]

Hi Joe my experience is with hand planes. I don't know much about older handsaws. Where would I find information on how to raise the etch with "darkening solution" and what it is. Thanks

[steven c newman]

There is a paste I use...the same used to re-blue gun barrels....cold gun blue. Wipe a coating on over where the etch should be...allow to dry, that lightly sand until the higher spots are cleaned off. leaving the lower (etch, rust pits) still a blue/black colour. Etch should appear, if it is still there...

[Mark R Webster]

Thanks Steven, what is the condition of the saw blade afterwards.. is it altered in any negative visual ways. Do you have to treat the whole blade to balance color changes?
Thanks

[steven c newman]

You'll be applying it just to the area of the etch. When you sand away the "excess" the rest of the plate should match...depending on how well you have cleaned it...Should only be blue down in the "low spots" like an etch. Beyond that...maybe a few rusty pits.

Others have just rubbed the area with a black Sharpie pen, allowed that to dry, then sand back. Mainly to find out IF there is an etch still there..
386738
After the gun blue paste was used....don't mind the fingerprints....

[Mark R Webster]

Thanks Steven, I will give it a try, be nice if the etch came as as well as yours but it is probably gone or almost gone on mine.

[Mark R Webster]

Tried the sharpie, nothing comes up ... I guess the etch is just gone :(

[lowell holmes]

Well,
I have a D12 that came to me minus a handle. So it now has a new curly maple handle, new saw nuts, has been re-toothed and is living happily
on my shop wall. I re-toothed to 10 tpi crosscut.
Enjoy your saw, I do mine. You can read the etch on it.

[Mark R Webster]

I am beginning to think that the saw is an Atkins No 56 with a Disston medallion. The carving looks more like the Atkins to me and the back being skewed pushes me further that way. I have found several pics that reinforce the thought. If this is in fact the Atkins with a Disston medalion, just wondering if any of you know which medallion should be on the saw... the AAA or the Phoenix? I can't make it out which in the pics I have found. Here is one from one of the catalogs.

[Rob Paul]

If its an Atkins 56 it would have been part of Atkin's "Sheffield Saw Works" line of saws, most likely with their "Sheffield" medallion
https://s3.amazonaws.com/vs-lumberjocks.com/n165t52.jpg

[Mark R Webster]

Thanks Rob!!

[Joe Tilson]

Mark,
I use Brass Darkening Solution to raise the etch in the same manner Steven mentions.
Just in the etch area.
Good fortune in getting an answer to your saw.

[Mark R Webster]

Thanks for suggestion!! :)

[Noah Magnuson]

If it is an Atkins plate, they are notoriously shallow etches compared to some others.

[Mark R Webster]

I would say that is the case here.:)

[steven c newman]

386850
What I have been using...
386851
Has a VERY Faint etch...Atkins Perfection 64...
386852
I'd have to dig the saw out of the til, and see what the medallion is...

[Mark R Webster]

Thanks for the visual Steven. I will keep an eye out for the blueing material. I think the etch is gone though :(. In general do the madallions fit over an indention of into an indention. With the medallion off there is an indention the size of the smaller indention. Do the medallions fit over any indentions or into them. I suppose some indentions could be from overthightening but this one is fairly deep.

[Mark R Webster]

This is the type of depression I am referring to:
(The depression is 13/16" in diameter)