Fiat Chrysler Recall

[Jim Koepke]

(Reuters) - Fiat Chrysler Automobiles NV is recalling more than 5.3 million vehicles in North America over a defect that could prevent drivers from deactivating cruise control, the company said on Friday, warning owners not to use the function until they get software upgrades.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-fiat-chrysler-recall/fiat-chrysler-recalls-4-8-million-u-s-vehicles-for-cruise-control-defect-idUSKCN1IQ1QY

[Jim Becker]

There's a health discussion in the various FCA-focused forums on this...my understanding is that one (rental) car exhibited the behavior detailed in the recall. I'm sure they wouldn't have issued the recall if they didn't feel there was some validity to the code problem, but at least it seems to be something that at least isn't "likely" to hit most folks.

[Jerome Stanek]

There's a health discussion in the various FCA-focused forums on this...my understanding is that one (rental) car exhibited the behavior detailed in the recall. I'm sure they wouldn't have issued the recall if they didn't feel there was some validity to the code problem, but at least it seems to be something that at least isn't "likely" to hit most folks.

If they are recalling 5.2 million then they have a good idea that there is a problem

[Frederick Skelly]

If they are recalling 5.2 million then they have a good idea that there is a problem

Sure would seem that way. Anyone know how recalls get decided - the criteria and so forth?

[Jim Becker]

If they are recalling 5.2 million then they have a good idea that there is a problem
I think that's what I said...but if that didn't come through, yes, they know there is a problem. It's just a little unusual that there's apparently only one known instance of it happening. They did buy back the vehicle for further testing, AFAIK.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Sure would seem that way. Anyone know how recalls get decided - the criteria and so forth?

I believe this is the simple explanation.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SiB8GVMNJkE

[Frederick Skelly]

I believe this is the simple explanation.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SiB8GVMNJkE

Probability x Number in service x Cost of settlement for each vehicle vs. Cost of recall?

There's a scary Big Business logic in that funny video. :confused:

[John K Jordan]

I think that's what I said...but if that didn't come through, yes, they know there is a problem. It's just a little unusual that there's apparently only one known instance of it happening. They did buy back the vehicle for further testing, AFAIK.

I checked the Chrysler web site and my Jeep Cherokee is on the list. The web site said to not use the cruise control and schedule an appointment for a software update.

JKJ

[Jim Koepke]

I think that's what I said...but if that didn't come through, yes, they know there is a problem. It's just a little unusual that there's apparently only one known instance of it happening. They did buy back the vehicle for further testing, AFAIK.

Most likely they found a bug in the code and want to be ahead of the problem.

My question is can the car be put in neutral or the engine turned off if this happens?

jtk

[Jim Becker]

I checked the Chrysler web site and my Jeep Cherokee is on the list. The web site said to not use the cruise control and schedule an appointment for a software update.

JKJ
There is no fix available yet and many dealers haven't even received the recall notification, let alone owners. As always, the press release hits first and the rest takes some time. I'm glad they have it on the website, however, since many folks do actually look there now.

[Jim Becker]

My question is can the car be put in neutral or the engine turned off if this happens?


If I recall, that's what was in the press release should it actually happen to someone....neutral, pull off the road, engine off/park.

[John K Jordan]

Most likely they found a bug in the code and want to be ahead of the problem.

My question is can the car be put in neutral or the engine turned off if this happens?

jtk

From the news reports I read the only thing you can do is use the brake hard, against the motor. The guy with the rental car problem apparently stopped from 70mph with the break and the engine was still running wide open. I wasn't there so I don't know if other options would have worked. He might have been too busy to explore.

These new cars, at least the one I have, use a software-monitored push button to start/stop and there is no key to turn and there are lots of software-monitored interlocks to protect us from ourselves. Some are not well thought out. For example, if opening the door on my '17 Cherokee Trailhawk while driving (at least slowly backwards) the electronic parking/emergency brake is automatically engaged. This may be a nice idea when driving on a country road but not so good when backing on the farm to maneuver such as to hook up a trailer in a tight spot. There are a bunch of little annoyances like this in the software, designed no doubt by some team sitting around a table drinking strong coffee.

With remote access to vehicle software apparently possible now on some vehicles, I wonder when someone with a vendetta will hack a firewall and inject an evil patch into someone's car. Who knows, maybe that's what happened to the guy in the rental care and Chrysler is just rushing to patch firewall vulnerabilities. If that's the case I doubt they will advertise the cause.

As a software developer in my previous life, if a bug is discovered, if you have a soul you fix it even if the chances of it causing a problem is one in 10 million. I once developed a control and data acquisition system for a military branch to detonate and monitor test explosives in the field. The failsafes had to be absolutely fail safe or someone could die. I found a bug in the Microsoft C compiler (!!!) which though highly unlikely could have caused a failure. Took me weeks to track it down and write a workaround.

JKJ

[Tom Stenzel]

My wife's Journey is on the list.

From what I've read moving the gear selector to neutral will disengage the transmission but the engine will still be wound up. Once the vehicle is stopped and the selector put in Park the throttle will then wind down.

From what little has been posted it seems the cruise software module needs active on/off signals to change state. With everything in the dash networked together if the signal to stop doesn't make it to the cruise system it continues on its merry way.

In process control systems we always set up a "heartbeat" in each device so that the other devices would know if something went down and react accordingly. Sounds like that didn't happen here.

-Tom

[Jim Koepke]

There are a bunch of little annoyances like this in the software, designed no doubt by some team sitting around a table drinking strong coffee.

During my time as a field service tech a call got me out after midnight for a problem someone was having with an auto feed roll paper stand for a pen plotter tearing up their paper.

Turns out the "team sitting around a table drinking strong coffee" decided nobody would want to make drawings more than so many feel long so the put in a command for the machined to stop if the length limit was reached and thus tear the paper. The call was late at night because that was when these folks were tracking satellites flying over.

So John, in your case the "team sitting around a table drinking strong coffee" decided nobody would want the door open when they are backing up. There probably wasn't a single person on the team who lived in a place without paved roads and parking lots. Maybe you could rig up a stick to hold down the door open button to defeat the safety interlock.

jtk

[John K Jordan]

...Maybe you could rig up a stick to hold down the door open button to defeat the safety interlock.


Maybe just jumper the switch with my own switch. BTW, when I know I need say 6" more to center the ball on the socket I open the door, like up a twig or stone on the ground with some feature on the door frame, then back up until the feature lines up with what I guess is 6" back. Works every time. It would be trivial with a trailer light enough to actually skid into place!

[Jim Koepke]

BTW, when I know I need say 6" more to center the ball on the socket I open the door, like up a twig or stone on the ground with some feature on the door frame, then back up until the feature lines up with what I guess is 6" back.

Great minds think alike. This is also one of my little helpers.

jtk

[Bob Turkovich]

For example, if opening the door on my '17 Cherokee Trailhawk while driving (at least slowly backwards) the electronic parking/emergency brake is automatically engaged. This may be a nice idea when driving on a country road but not so good when backing on the farm to maneuver such as to hook up a trailer in a tight spot. There are a bunch of little annoyances like this in the software, designed no doubt by some team sitting around a table drinking strong coffee.JKJ

I can't be sure but would think this software change was part of an earlier recall to prevent people from getting out of the vehicle with the engine running and not in Park. (Google Anton Yelchin accident).

You might be able to defeat that feature via the Controls/Settings/Safety & Driving Assistance menu on your touch screen. Maybe Jim can check that out for you via his Jeep forum.

[John K Jordan]

I can't be sure but would think this software change was part of an earlier recall to prevent people from getting out of the vehicle with the engine running and not in Park. (Google Anton Yelchin accident).


I'll check. But what if you needed to make a hasty escape from a carjacker in the passenger seat. Seems like they would have thought of that! :)

JKJ

[Jim Becker]

The workaround for the "opening the door slams the brakes on" thing is to keep the seat belt buckled...if I recall clearly. This is a "car wash" issue in some vehicles, too. That's for the MY14-15 JGC with the funky electronic shifter that was part of the Yelchin incident. (My16+ went back to a positive feedback shifter design) It may apply to other models, too.